Where to buy Phenolic Plywood?

[John TenEyck]

Besides Woodcraft who sells phenolic plywood on the east coast, preferably near Buffalo, NY?

John

[Bruce Wrenn]

Besides Woodcraft who sells phenolic plywood on the east coast, preferably near Buffalo, NY?

John


Almost every concrete forming supplier handles phenolic plywood. Won't be in pretty color, just brown. Fresh concrete doesn't care about what color the forms are.

[John TenEyck]

Does that product have a high ply count like Baltic birch?

John

[Paul F Franklin]

John,

You might try DSI supply in Pittsburgh. In Cleveland they distribute the nevamar thick phenolic panels, which are actually phenolic core sandwiched between high pressure laminate faces. Not sure if the PB branch handles that. Or they may have something more like traditional phenolic faced BB plywood, if that's what you want.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you can source regular baltic birch plywood, you could cover it with formica. Formica is phenolic-impregnated paper. Formica glues nicely in a vacuum bag with good ol' yellow glue. And if you can't buy baltic birch plywood, use what you can buy.

[Dave Sabo]

Curious what you’re making and why the woodcraft offering isn’t satisfactory?

[glenn bradley]

There is a place out here that I now see is actually nation wide. White Cap supplies build materials and tools for the concrete industry among other things. Sheets of phenolic ply are used in concrete forms and available through them.

[Rick Potter]

It's gonna be expensive. I bought two sheets to repair tool cabinets for a Porsche race car trailer. Cost was no object, and it cost $130 a sheet (4x8), plus $125 to deliver it from Los Angeles, 40 miles away. That was 5 years ago.

[Frank Pratt]

MDO, which is faced with phenolic impregnated paper is a high quality experior grade fir plywood, no voids. It's tough as nails. At least that's what the stuff we get around here is. I used some to build a new jam for my garage OH door. It's north facing and the bottom ends sit right down in the snow, water and ice most of the winter. Years later it looks like new. Before installation, I impregnated the bottom 6" with some low viscosity epoxy before painting.

Really good stuff.

[Mark Beiting]

Ditto what Frank said. Around here there is MDO (medium density overlay), and HDO (high density overlay). Both are water resistant, and both are used for concrete forms. MDO lasts about 6-8 pours, HDO can go as high as 16 before needing replaced. MDO is/was also called 'sign board'. Sadly, I am old enough to remember when all outdoor signage was hand painted (MDO takes paint very well). Both plwoods are available with either pine interior veneers, or the much better western board which has Doug fir inner plies. MDO is brown in color, and has lightly impregnated kraft paper facing. HDO has much more resin in the facings, usually heavier on the front (pour side), than the back. MDO is usually stock at the lumber yards here, but HDO is exclusive to a yard that supplies to the concrete forming trade

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the feedback. Not interested in MDO or its derivatives as it's not consistent enough in thickness and is an unappealing brown. I want to use this stuff as the show surface. Woodcraft has some phenolic plywood but I'd rather buy full sheets. But if they turn out to be the only option then I'll either have to go with them or use BB and glue Formica to it, as was suggested above. Not ideal, but it might work.

John

[Tom M King]

google found several sources: https://andersonplywood.com/phenolic-plywood/

[Jim Becker]

Here's one option, John, available in white and black:

https://www.industrialplywood.com/browse/cabinet-grade-products/cabinet-liner.html

[John TenEyck]

google found several sources: https://andersonplywood.com/phenolic-plywood/

I had seen that, Tom. Too bad they are on the left coast. I often get specialty plywoods from Atlantic Plywood who have a location in Rochester, NY, and deliver to my local lumber yard. Unfortunately, they don't appear to carry phenolic plywood or a similar product.

John

[John TenEyck]

Here's one option, John, available in white and black:

https://www.industrialplywood.com/browse/cabinet-grade-products/cabinet-liner.html

I'd never seen that stuff before, Jim. It might be a possibility. Not as many layers as I'd prefer, but as long as it's flat it should work. Thanks.

John

[Jim Becker]

Yes, it caught my eye. I doubt they deliver up your way, but a phone conversation with them could be worth it, before a scenic but long drive to Lewisburg which is likely closer to you than Reading. Maybe they could provide a little sample or point you to where you can get one. I may check this stuff out for shop cabinets, honestly, as an alternative to typical pre-finished depending on the cost.

[al ladd]

I'm looking for, I think similar product to what John was after here. The Woodcraft phenolic BB would seem to be the ideal stuff, but it's $$$, wrong thickness for me, and has limited sizes and expensive shipping.

Im wondering about using "phenolic backer" which is basically Formica without a show side, sold typically as a balancer for backs of countertops, but applying it to both faces of a good quality plywood to produce phenolic plywood in any thickness. It's very inexpensive. Glue with PVA in a vaccuum press.

What I'm looking for is a surface that will appeal to woodworkers as a suitable hard wearing surface, and I want to not have the slipperiness of melamine or plastic laminate. Anyone have any experience using this stuff?
Like:https://www.woodworkerexpress.com/polybak-pb69-veneer-backer-balancer-.020-thick-richwood-industries-pbs69br28-4x8.html or https://feeneysupply.com/products/backer-495-feeney-laminate-backer-sheets?contact_posted=true#contact-contact7855046623481

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Tom and Jim. Those look like good options to pursue. I called my local full service lumber yard yesterday to ask about the current price of PlumaPly. $230/sheet. It was $170 last year, $105 a couple of years before that. Not interested at $230.

I'll see if they can get either of the options you two proposed, and what the price is. Anderson shouldn't be a problem, except maybe for the price. I'll report back.

John

[John Pendery]

Roberts Plywood sells Koskisen, which fits the bill for what you are after I believe. On the wrong side of your state unfortunately.

[John TenEyck]

google found several sources: https://andersonplywood.com/phenolic-plywood/

I checked with my local supplier about that product. $800 plus per sheet is just a wee bit more than what I want to spend.

John

[John Pendery]

John,

Not sure if you saw my post about Roberts Plywood who carry KoskiDecor, which is a Finnish birch product manufactured by Koskisen that might fit you description. If they don’t have any in stock another supplier in NC, CaraGreen is a good resource. It’s not cheap, but much less than $800 a sheet. I believe 18mm 5x10 sheets run $500, 12mm 5x10 $400, 12 mm 4x8 $250. Hope that is helpful.

.495062

[al ladd]

I recently bought a few sheets of 1/2" and 3/4" Plumaply from Atlantic Plywood for a lot less than $230/sheet. I think it was in the 3-4$ SQ foot neighborhood, about the same as they wanted for BB of same thickness.

I've been working on a table saw sled design, and the high price and poor availability of a suitable sheet good is a real drag.

The Finnish stuff looks interesting, like the Woodcraft stuff i suppose, but I like the idea of a non-wood and perhaps thicker top veneer.

I might try the phenolic backer veneering idea. I always wonder, when I consider doing something that I can't find has been done before, whether there's a good reason for it....

It seems to me there's a fair amount of interest in superior jig/table saw sled material. Solid phenolic board is seen as the ultimate (what Woodpeckers is using for their $539 sled,) but it's heavy, obnoxious to work with, and a slick surface makes no real sense for a table saw sled surface...

[John TenEyck]

I did see your post about Koskisen, John. I sent them an email about price and whether they would cut it into smaller pieces and ship it to me. They are out on Long Island; way too far to go in person. But $10/ft^2 plus shipping is pretty steep.

I looked into buying a piece of phenolic plywood from Woodcraft today, just to try it. 24 x 32" is $70, but with tax, shipping, and a "Fuel Surcharge" it's around $102. That's almost $20/ft^2. Baltic birch with a Formica skin on one side is looking better and better. That would be less than $5/ft^2.

John

[roger wiegand]

Boulter Plywood (https://www.boulterplywood.com) will ship to you A local source would be better.

[John Pendery]

How much of this are you looking for? I’m in the middle of a kitchen using this, and if you just want a small drop off to get a feel for it or test it out I might be able to mail you a piece or two depending on what I’m left with. I agree, initial pricing is a tough pill to swallow, and shipping on top of that is cost prohibitive for all but large projects/jobs.

[John TenEyck]

Roberts Plywood sells Koskisen, which fits the bill for what you are after I believe. On the wrong side of your state unfortunately.

Thanks for the offer, John. I'll let you know. I would hate to have you ship me a piece, fall in love with it, and then be faced with how to afford using it for real.

John

[John Pendery]

Haha good point, the penalty of future operating costs hadn’t occurred to me. That aside once I finish the kitchen if I have any leftover in a size that’s shippable and useful to you I’m happy to send along. Just let me know

[al ladd]

An interesting alternative here is Rigahex--which has one surface with a textured phenolic and the other side smooth. It's meant for truck liners to keep packages from shifting. I have a sheet and think it will be nice for table saw sled surface, where a little friction on top is desirable. I've been quoted about $175/4x8 (1/2" thick) delivered (from NJ to MA) for 10 sheet order. I've got a few other things i want to do with it as well, so may be offering it to SMC'ers if anyone's interested. The one US (more readily available in Europe) retailer: https://reparadise.co/product/naply-riga-heksa-hex-ply/ will cut full sheets for better shipping price, or PM me for better east coast contact for bulk orders.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned Makerstock, which retails regular phenolic plywood at a significant discount compared to Woodcraft, offering may sized in 1/2" and 3/4". https://makerstock.com/products/final-sale-phenolic-baltic-birch-plywood-black-12mm-18mm?variant=41117746659425.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks very much Alan. Makerstock looks like a real option for me if I get more orders for the product I make with that type of product.

John

[Jimmy Harris]

If you need smaller pieces, like for a jig or something, you can buy online for usually much cheaper than what it would cost you at Woodcraft. I buy mine from Maker Stock.

https://makerstock.com/collections/phenolic-and-melamine/film-face

[John Pendery]

Out of curiosity what are you guys using this stuff for?

When I did that plywood kitchen last year I believe I paid around $150 for 4x8 sheets and $225 or so for 5x10. Shipping was the expensive part at around $1000 from CaraGreen in NC. The stuff had a very cool kind of transparency where you could see the grain through the color. Not a product I would order to solely make jigs with though. For solid colors I just order laminate through Abet Laminati which comes in pretty much any color or texture rolled up in tubes so is much less expensive shipping. Pretty quick and easy to glue to Baltic birch or MDF with a vacuum press or just clamps for smaller pieces.

[Larry Edgerton]

What about the BB that is glued together with Resorsinal glue? I just bought a 3/4" 4x8 and it was $160. I have left that stuff outside in the dirt for a couple of years as a test and it showed no degradation. Think I am going to use it in 1/2" fr the deck of my boat, but looking for something lighter.

[John Pendery]

Out of curiosity what are you guys using this stuff for?

When I did that plywood kitchen last year I believe I paid around $150 for 4x8 sheets and $225 or so for 5x10. Shipping was the expensive part at around $1000 from CaraGreen in NC. The stuff had a very cool kind of transparency where you could see the grain through the color. Not a product I would order to solely make jigs with though. For solid colors I just order laminate through Abet Laminati which comes in pretty much any color or texture rolled up in tubes so is much less expensive shipping. Pretty quick and easy to glue to Baltic birch or MDF with a vacuum press or just clamps for smaller pieces.

To clarify I’m referring to the Koskisen ply I used last year, not either product Al posted about.

[al ladd]

I think John, like me, has been interested in this stuff for woodworking jig platforms. It's sort of a hybrid between baltic birch and plastic. I think the Koskisen ply would work well too.

In my continued quest for this stuff, I've found an even more attractive supplier: https://www.penn-elcom.com/us/flight-case-hardware/panels-and-laminates/film-faced-panels. They told me prices start at $90/ 4x8 sheet for 1/2".

I haven't priced regular baltic birch for awhile now, but wasn't it selling for a good deal more than than for a couple years after COVID and then the Ukraine war?

[John Pendery]

Larry, maybe an opportunity for a carbon fiber layup? Probably overkill but could be a fun boat project!

Al, I think the stuff you posted would be excellent jig making material. I hope my post didn’t come across as condescending when I said I wouldn’t purchase for the sole purpose of jig making. I was just referring to the exorbitant cost to ship small quantities of 4x8 and 5x10 sheets due to their large footprint! You can bet a lot of the off cuts from that kitchen have gone into jigs and fixtures around my shop!

[John TenEyck]

I think John, like me, has been interested in this stuff for woodworking jig platforms. It's sort of a hybrid between baltic birch and plastic. I think the Koskisen ply would work well too.

In my continued quest for this stuff, I've found an even more attractive supplier: https://www.penn-elcom.com/us/flight-case-hardware/panels-and-laminates/film-faced-panels. They told me prices start at $90/ 4x8 sheet for 1/2".

I haven't priced regular baltic birch for awhile now, but wasn't it selling for a good deal more than than for a couple years after COVID and then the Ukraine war?

Yes, I'm interested in this type of material for the plane ramps on my shooting boards. I'm using BB ply now with Formica glued to the surface the plane slides on. The user can slide his/her plane directly on the Formica or add a couple of strips of stick-on UHMW tape for an even smoother, quieter ride. In either case, it looks good, is dead flat, and very durable. The downside is the cost of materials and time it takes to put together.

Al, I paid less than $100/sheet for 3/4" genuine (Russian) 5 x 5 ft BB plywood a couple of weeks ago. The stuff has been available even with the war in Ukraine, so whatever ban there is on Russian goods hasn't trickled down to BB plywood. $100/sheet is almost as low as ever where I buy it in the quantities I buy.

John