Cheap hold down clamp option for a Grizzly slider

[Keegan Shields]

I've been looking for a hold down solution since purchasing my G0623X slider used a few months ago. I can't see spending the money on the Felder version, and I haven't had much success with the Kreg Automaxx clamp. So when I saw this (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/woodriver-quick-set-drill-press-hold-down?sku=145969) small drill press hold down clamp in the latest Woodcraft mailer, I decided to take the plunge (on sale now for $20) and see if I could make it work.

It works great! Puts a good amount of pressure strait down, eliminating the shift I was getting using the Kreg Automaxx clamp. I used white oak for the T nut which works will enough, but an aluminum one would work even better with less flex. Threads on the main hold down shaft are M10x1.5. I did have to cut down the threaded portion at the bottom of the shaft to make it fit and picked up a pack of nuts at my local big box store.

I'll likely pick up a second clamp which should cover tapers / straight lining boards, etc.


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[Jim Becker]

That's a very nice solution.

One small hint...don't really crank clamps down super tight on the wagon...just enough to do the job. Believe it or not, you can slightly distort the wagon if the clamps are too tight and pull up on the slot and it will not perform quite as well. It's not generally damaging, but it can be annoying when things don't move as smoothly as you expect.

[Chris Parks]

Everyone to his/her approach to using a slider but over many years I have not used clamps at all for 99% of cuts. Maybe I am missing the point somewhere but except for a very few operations they are simply not necessary for my purposes and I doubt I do anything different to most other slider users. Do others routinely clamp every job and if so why?

[David Stone (CT)]

That looks like a good option; I just ordered one. Thanks for posting.

I actually really like the Kreg Automaxx clamp as a hold down in some applications. As you say, its design does tend to pull the the work toward it. If it can be positioned across the the fence from the workpiece, that becomes a virtue. And it's so easy to use: light and accommodates different thicknesses without user adjustment480782.

I have the Felder eccentric clamp (and a Hammer one, too). They work well as hold downs but I only use them when needed as they're heavy, especially the Felder, and so more effort to get on and off the saw.

[Mike Wilkins]

I have had one of those for years sold for use on the drill press table, without the auxiliary table. I may have to borrow your idea for my own use.
This would be invaluable for holding a board to the wagon for edge ripping rough boards to get a straight edge.

[Jim Becker]

Everyone to his/her approach to using a slider but over many years I have not used clamps at all for 99% of cuts. Maybe I am missing the point somewhere but except for a very few operations they are simply not necessary for my purposes and I doubt I do anything different to most other slider users. Do others routinely clamp every job and if so why?
There are times when clamping is helpful for either insuring extreme precision on something or, at least for me, keeping a large sheet actually flat for a cut, given the "quality" of material these days. Even the best sheets are not necessarily "flat" and they have to be flat and tight to the wagon for the best cut. So no, not every cut...but yes for some of them. Clamps are also helpful when using some fixtures, too.

[David Stone (CT)]

Everyone to his/her approach to using a slider but over many years I have not used clamps at all for 99% of cuts. Maybe I am missing the point somewhere but except for a very few operations they are simply not necessary for my purposes and I doubt I do anything different to most other slider users. Do others routinely clamp every job and if so why?

In addition to the situations Jim describes, clamping is also useful-to-necessary in the case of short crosscuts, say, under a foot or so. This is especially true if your saw is set up with the cross-cut fence ahead of the workpiece, meaning the force of the blade may cause the piece to rotate away from the fence, with bad consequences for accuracy and safety. As a hobbyist doing one-off projects, I am constantly switching between operations that do and don't benefit from using a clamp. This is why a hold down that is easy to get on and off is so beneficial--it lessens the temptation to skip the clamp and put your hands (too) close because "it's just one or two cuts."

[Steve Wurster]

That's a nice one and looks lightweight.

I have the big Felder one for my Hammer K3 and it's a major pain to use. It's heavy, difficult to put on and take off the saw, and the adjustments are annoying. As a result it just sits in a tool box somewhere.

I do have 2 of the Kreg Automaxx clamps and agree with the issue that they tend to move the piece. This generally isn't a problem when doing initial rips of rough lumber, but otherwise you definitely don't want that movement.

I might have to pick up this drill press-style one though.

[Chris Parks]

In addition to the situations Jim describes, clamping is also useful-to-necessary in the case of short crosscuts, say, under a foot or so. This is especially true if your saw is set up with the cross-cut fence ahead of the workpiece, meaning the force of the blade may cause the piece to rotate away from the fence, with bad consequences for accuracy and safety. As a hobbyist doing one-off projects, I am constantly switching between operations that do and don't benefit from using a clamp. This is why a hold down that is easy to get on and off is so beneficial--it lessens the temptation to skip the clamp and put your hands (too) close because "it's just one or two cuts."

All small piece cutting is generally done using an F&F jig and using that means there is no movement when the clamp is applied. Honestly and with total puzzlement I simply do not get why clamps are such a big thing for some sliding saw owners but if it makes for a more confident user then go for it. Perhaps it could be that I always cut small pieces by measuring off the rip fence position so the piece is set hard against that before the cut starts and using the F&F jig it is not going to move. I find a lot of users who have moved from a cabinet saw do not work to the right of the blade for cross cutting, do others who have posted here work the same way, that is all CC done to the left of the blade? One of the first things I did when I bought my saw was to cut a small length off the rip fence as long as the rip head (about 300mm) and it lives on the rip head exclusively for measuring small piece cross cut dimensions and fitting a Wixey to the rip fence with a fine adjuster was a huge step forward in precision. If anyone is interested I can post photos.

[Keegan Shields]

That’s cool if you don’t use a clamp with your slider Chris. There are many ways to do most operations in woodworking. This thread simply provides a low cost option for those who do.

[Chris Parks]

That’s cool if you don’t use a clamp with your slider Chris. There are many ways to do most operations in woodworking. This thread simply provides a low cost option for those who do.

I understand your response but I am not trying to be critical at all of anyone's choices on how they work. I am genuinely interested in why I do things one way but others do things other ways. To me this creates a knowledge and experience base that should be good for all in a discussion on the types of clamps used by some and no clamps used by others.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I use the Kreg automaxx 6” clamps and find them to be perfect for my saw that came to me with no hold downs to been seen. I have a pair for wider stuff (one in front) and one that reaches over the fence from behind, but typically always use at least one depending on what it is. Works perfectly and I’ve had to issues with them pulling stock away from the fence.

Not sure why you wouldn’t use clamps on a slider. Some obviously reasons to use them are accuracy and safety. Before I outfitted with the Kreg clamps, I did notice the potential for the piece being cut to shift *slightly during the cut, especially if the fence is forward / piece behind. Seems like a no brainer on a slider. If I had the money I would spend $xxxx on air tight pneumatic clamps in a second.

[Warren Lake]

from years on cabinet saws nothing was clamped. The excalibur cross cuts had sandpaper on them and stuff didnt move. Now with a slider you can work with the fence in the back position or front position. Stakes will go up front position if you dont keep the material tight to the fence and it moves during a cut. Rear fence position giving more material support.

[Chris Parks]

Not sure why you wouldn’t use clamps on a slider. Some obviously reasons to use them are accuracy and safety. Before I outfitted with the Kreg clamps, I did notice the potential for the piece being cut to shift *slightly during the cut, especially if the fence is forward / piece behind. Seems like a no brainer on a slider. If I had the money I would spend $xxxx on air tight pneumatic clamps in a second.

Phil. a couple of questions

Do you use an F&F jig?

Do you work to the right of the blade setting dimension on the rip fence for any cuts at all?

[Bryan Hall]

I've got the same saw (shop fox version) and have played with a few different ways to clamp as well. For me, I really need/want the clamp when ripping smaller/longer pieces. Most everything else I am comfortable just using the gripper to hold down or the F&F jig does it well enough for my needs.

When I do need to clamp something for a longer rip I've actually found that clamping a board across the outrigger (crosscut position) and propped up on the board I'm ripping works well.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Phil. a couple of questions

Do you use an F&F jig?

Do you work to the right of the blade setting dimension on the rip fence for any cuts at all?

Yes and yes. I would consider a F&F a version of a clamp, but who’s counting? I guess my only point was that something like the Kreg clamp is so quick, easy, and relatively affordable to adapt to most any slider - why not use it to increase accuracy, safety, and tension in your body and work flow? No biggie as I have tried many different ways and know that clamps work for me on a slider.

I use the rip fence as a stop often as well as a pair of flip stops on the crosscut fence left of blade. What does this have to do with clamp or no clamp?

[Mike Kees]

I use Kreg Automax on my saw as well. Where you need clamps is straight line ripping edges of lumber. I have the factory ripping shoe for my saw and never use it, because the clamps are quicker. I also use them to make my initial straight line on 4x8 panels as well. Occasionally I will position my Fritz and Franz in the middle of my wagon held in place by a clamp. Once you have them uses become more apparent, I would not go back to not using clamps. I also do not get hung up on which side of the blade I am working on. They put a rip fence on sliders for more than just a bump stop. When cutting cabinet parts I will usually set my rip fence for one dimension and the flip stop on my wagon for the other (rectangular pieces) then cut one dimension and flip to cut the next one. Ripping panels with the fence (right side of blade) is still greatly aided by sliding even if only partially on the wagon.

[Kevin Jenness]

I use a clamp maybe 5% of the time. Clamping the front edge of a sheet and holding it down at the back by hand helps to ensure contact with the scoring blade when used. I use a ripping shoe, but it's at least 8"long so for pieces maxing out the table length I'll use a clamp at the front (and at the back for narrow pieces). For radical tapers that don't lend themselves to using F&F or the crosscut fence I will mark out the cut line, extend the end points down the edges so I can reference off the wagon or a zero clearance surface taped to it, clamp front and back and make the cut. I also use the rip fence as a rip fence as well as a bump stop. When ripping narrow cabinet parts the last cut on the sheet gets cut with the rip fence extended forward, as do rips longer than the wagon travel. There's more ways to the woods than one.

[Chris Parks]

There's more ways to the woods than one.

Very definitely and a discussion of different methods allows us to see alternative ways of working. For me a long rip fence on the machine is nothing more than a damned nuisance as I rarely use it full length and it is either retracted so I have to walk around it or pushed full forward and I then have to work around the fence and the overhead guard to retrieve small off cuts. Not having the rip fence on the machine except when needed clears the whole table on the right hand side. I have asked a question surrounding the use of clamps and related my way of working, nothing more or less and would not criticise anyone for using clamps if that makes them feel safe or gives them a better result. Accuracy has never been a problem for me but others obviously get a better result when using clamps and so be it.

[Kevin Jenness]

Very definitely and a discussion of different methods allows us to see alternative ways of working. For me a long rip fence on the machine is nothing more than a damned nuisance as I rarely use it full length and it is either retracted so I have to walk around it or pushed full forward and I then have to work around the fence and the overhead guard to retrieve small off cuts. Not having the rip fence on the machine except when needed clears the whole table on the right hand side. I have asked a question surrounding the use of clamps and related my way of working, nothing more or less and would not criticise anyone for using clamps if that makes them feel safe or gives them a better result. Accuracy has never been a problem for me but others obviously get a better result when using clamps and so be it.

So how do you manage some of the situations I referred to above - long rips, odd tapers, holding down bowed material - without a rip fence or clamps?

[Chris Parks]

So how do you manage some of the situations I referred to above - long rips, odd tapers, holding down bowed material - without a rip fence or clamps?

I do use the rip fence about twice a year and it only takes 30 seconds to change over from one to the other so it is not inconvenient. Most stuff I rip, angle cuts etc can be done on the sliding table clamped by the F&F jig as I rarely cut sheet goods I make up the story as I go. I do use clamps on the odd occasion for instance if I am cutting a bevel clamping is necessary to ensure that the bevel width is constant along the cut. Holding angle cuts is done using the F&F jig and I have never had an issue doing that though at first glance it does not seem a good thing to do. The Original video posted to YT shows the F&F jig being used for angle cuts and I find it works well.

I can't see how a bent panel can be clamped, certainly it is impossible on my saw unless the panel was quite small and then I would just lean on it with my hand to flatten it. I have looked at the idea of using a bent caul along the length of the table for bent panels but I don't encounter the problem enough to do any more than think about it. As I emphasised before my methods might not suit others but a discussion on methods is always a good thing and in the past there have been some really interesting threads on sliders and it was during one of those discussions that someone found the F&F jig developed that was first used in Germany.

Euro machinery hacks, mods, and add-ons... (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?246109-Euro-machinery-hacks-mods-and-add-ons)

Hammer K3 Winner - What I've learned in the last 6 months - Page 2 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230613-Hammer-K3-Winner-What-I-ve-learned-in-the-last-6-months&p=2735881#post2735881)

This a good watch, I don't think Sam ever uses an F&F jig but he does not seem to use many clamps either.

(1) Jigs, rigs and techniques for cutting Small Parts on a Sliding Table Saw - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8mPBm2VdY&ab_channel=SamBlasco)

A bit of topic is this thread on parallel positioners some might find interesting

Fritz & Franz jig vs parallel positioner? (sawmillcreek.org) (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?276391-Fritz-amp-Franz-jig-vs-parallel-positioner)

[Kevin Jenness]

Yes, there are a variety of approaches to using this versatile machine. Most of the cabinetmakers I have worked with would use the rip fence pushed forward in conjunction with the slider and push the ripped piece past the blade rather than adjust the fence fore and aft while dicing up sheet goods. I don't do it that way but it was safe enough and productive and I would never think to tell them they were doing it wrong.

One specialized jig using clamps is for veneer jointing. A zero clearance panel the length of the wagon is keyed to the table groove while an upper platen is raise and lowered by screw clamps on vertical dowels to allow inserting a stack of veneer leaves. A curved caul above the upper platen spreads clamp pressure along the top platen's length while rubber weatherstripping on its underside allows for minor irregularities. The stack is held tight and flat to result in a straight sawn edge free of tearout and ready for taping.

The curved caul works well but if overclamped can bend the table enough to cause drag, illustrating the need for moderation when using clamps. Seriously bowed material should be cut on the bandsaw or in some other way, but clamps can tame slightly warped stock enough to cut it safely and accurately on the slider.