Garage cost...are you kidding me?

[Robert Hartmann]

I retired from the Air Force close to two years ago. It took us until now to find the house we wanted. So, I was ready to finally have a space dedicated for a wood shop instead of cramming into here or there as we moved every three years. We have a great house with some land and a perfect spot for a detached garage. I received the first estimate and about died. I was hoping to have a fully complete ~32x24 garage built. It came in at $110k which didn't include any heating or cooling. I asked for a scaled-down 2-car size with an option for no electric (other than run a 100 amp box), insulation, drywall and only french doors. It still came in at over $80k. I have another contractor working on an estimate at this time.

I had also requested the drive be extended (about 10x40 of concrete) in front of the garage.

Is this the going rate for those that know? If so, looks like I'll be stuck in the attached garage for a while.

[Jim Becker]

Robert, yes, the cost of structures is a lot higher than it was a few years ago because of material and labor costs being elevated. For this reason, I'll suggest that you seriously consider alternative building types for your project. That's exactly why I'm doing post frame for my 24x36x10 shop building that is scheduled to "go up" the second week of September. I totally ruled out "stick built" right from the start because of costs and it came down to metal post frame ("car port") or wood post frame (what is often called pole barn) for my project. In the end, the cost was similar because the metal structure required a monolithic slab vs the floating slab for the post frame. The end look is identical and in my case, is exactly color matched to our home. My building with concrete and basic electric will be under $35K and I do expect to put maybe $10K more in for internal finishes and the mini-split for HVAC.

[Sam Force]

Wow, that seems ridiculously high to me. I had a 24 by 36 garage built with a 36 by 41 drive in front of the garage back in 2009.
Total cost with separate electrical service, 2 garage doors, (1 18' and 1 9') minimal wiring as needed to pass inspection total was just under $26,000. I did the interior walls and wiring myself for probably another $2,500. A couple years later I installed gas heat for another $500. Still not even close to your estimates :confused:

[Scott Clausen]

If you don't need to borrow the money it may get better as interest rates rise. Maybe by then materials will normalize. I would wire and install interior myself but when I run the numbers in my head I keep coming up with 80k ~ 100K and I am not sure the resale of the property can support that investment. Till something gives I work out of a 10'X16' shed with AC and heat and switched to mostly hand tools. Its working so far.

[Jim Becker]

Sam, you cannot compare 2009 costs with 2022 costs, unfortunately. The 2200 sq ft home addition we did in 2007-2008 at our old property was about $330K and it would easily be close to $550K or more at present costs for identical, according to the GC who did the work. I sometimes watch a channel on the 'Tube for a guy up in VT that builds "garages" and he's pretty vocal and transparent about costs. He's currently running at least double the material cost from early 2020 and what he might have built for $20K then is running $40K now. There are indications that materials costs are going to come down as lumber futures are half what they were at the start of the year, but it will take a few more months for that to trickle toward the retail side of the supply chain.

Hence, my suggestion to be flexible on building type because there are cost advantages that can come from that flexibility without compromising the end result.

[Edward Weber]

I retired from the Air Force close to two years ago. It took us until now to find the house we wanted. So, I was ready to finally have a space dedicated for a wood shop instead of cramming into here or there as we moved every three years. We have a great house with some land and a perfect spot for a detached garage. I received the first estimate and about died. I was hoping to have a fully complete ~32x24 garage built. It came in at $110k which didn't include any heating or cooling. I asked for a scaled-down 2-car size with an option for no electric (other than run a 100 amp box), insulation, drywall and only french doors. It still came in at over $80k. I have another contractor working on an estimate at this time.

I had also requested the drive be extended (about 10x40 of concrete) in front of the garage.

Is this the going rate for those that know? If so, looks like I'll be stuck in the attached garage for a while.


I know it doesn't help but I have been in the exact same situation, with just slightly different dollar$ The cost per square foot is as much (now it's more) as the cost of a house.

[Alex Zeller]

I haven't checked but I did read a headline saying the price of lumber is dropping fast. If we are headed into a recession the price to build anything will drop as contractors scramble to find work. If possible I would wait until at least fall before deciding on what to do. Next spring could even be better. Hopefully by then the price of gas will settle out. That alone will help lower costs.

[roger wiegand]

Try $750,000 for a parking space (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/02/25/metro/boston-couple-getting-offers-high-750000-parking-spot-report-says/) in Beacon Hill (Boston). (the article is behind a paywall, and no actual selling price is reported. One did sell for $460,000 in that neighborhood a number of years ago) That's space for one car, not much of a shop.

[Zachary Hoyt]

A 2x4x8 is now down to $5.28 at Home Depot, and Advantech has dropped from $91 a sheet to $81. Prices are still high but at least they're trending down a bit. I want 16 sheets of Advantech to go over the foam insulation on my shop floor sometime this summer or fall, before it gets cold. I am hoping it'll get back down into the $50-60 range in a few more months but that is probably just wishful thinking. I bought rough cut wood from the Amish to build my shop and am glad I did, it saved me several thousand and built a stronger building. If you have any of them down your way you might want to get a quote from them, they build buildings as well as selling lumber.

[David Justice]

I built a 20x30 shop in NC for a little under 24K by acting as my own contractor. It's more work, but huge savings. You need sub contractors for Concrete, Framing(my framer did framing, siding and roof), and electric. I installed my own mini-split for heat and air that works great, I'm so glad I didn't have central A/C installed. The inspections (soil, framing and electric) were the worst part. I only failed framing once, but all of the inspectors were the biggest A-holes I have ever met. Hopefully they are better where you are.

[Bryan Hall]

I was quoted $750 a square foot for an unfinished shop this year. Hard pass on that.

[Tom Bain]

Unfortunately, all the “inputs” to construction costs are increasing. Some material prices may be stabilizing a little bit, but labor costs continue to rise, transportation/fuel, etc …

[Andrew More]

I watch the same guy on YouTube, lots of fun. I think it's obviously going to vary, but I feel like he keeps quoting more in the 50-60K range for what you're asking for. Obviously VT is not MO, and there are signs that the inflation is likely going to end in deflation/recession, and then perhaps back to 2% growth again. Or not. Who knows.

[Jim Becker]

I watch the same guy on YouTube, lots of fun. I think it's obviously going to vary, but I feel like he keeps quoting more in the 50-60K range for what you're asking for. Obviously VT is not MO, and there are signs that the inflation is likely going to end in deflation/recession, and then perhaps back to 2% growth again. Or not. Who knows.
Yea, Ken's prices have increased substantially but nowhere toward what the OP is getting quoted in his market. The escalation in Ken's prices are largely due to materials because his system of pre-building panels and keeps the labor sane, IMHO. His structures go up fast, even though they are "stick built", per se.

[Robert Hartmann]

Thanks for all the info. I'm still waiting on two more estimates, so I'll see if the first was just high. I could take on a lot of the work myself, but at this point my time is more precious. Looks like the right answer may be to wait a year. Fortunately I'm not financing the build, so the rising rates won't hurt. We just moved in, so a lot of other projects to work on. I do have a list of things my wife wants me to build, so I'll have to make do in one bay of the garage for now. It could be worse right? I did woodworking while stationed in the Netherlands in a cellar with 6.5 ft ceilings and high humidity. I managed to build my current bench and a tool chest there.

[Jonathan Jung]

Robert, I'm with Zachary and Jim and some others, about looking for alternatives to "normal" stick built structures. A garage can easily (and for less $) be built well using pole method for example. That could take a chunk off the cost. For your inititial estimates, they seem within reason, maybe on the high end of reason, at least for around where I live.

[Jim Becker]

The one downside to waiting to commit for a year is that it will invariably be two years before your shop building is completely up and functional. I started with the process in January and my physical build isn't until mid-September. From there I have to do the interior and get things setup. So in essence, it's a one year project from decision to do something with things like zoning/permits, waits for resources, etc.

[Frederick Skelly]

I was quoted $750 a square foot for an unfinished shop this year. Hard pass on that.

Around here you get that kind of bid when the contractor doesnt want the job but still feels like he needs to respond to the customer's request for a price. I dont know if it's like that anywhere else.

[Jeff Heil]

Building costs are up in last 12 months significantly based on my experiences. We built a new home of about 2500 square feet starting in Dec 2020, final cost per square foot was about $204/square foot, with me building all the cabinets, installing all hardwood and tile floors, and building the mantels and staircase parts. We moved in last July. Same General Contractor is building a similar home now, at about $258/square foot. It would cost me $137K more to build my same home now. The home we sold last august is now valued (on paper) at 100K more than we sold it for. Just had a concrete floor done in my new pole building, concrete guy said fuel surcharges have now increased his price of concrete $15/yard from a redi-mix truck. Built my 24x40 pole shed this spring. With concrete floor and electrical work I have about $30K into the building. Not insulated, just storage for my tractor, implements and snowmobiles.

[Bill Dufour]

How have ICF concrete building costs done? Lot of rebar cost in them.
Bill D

[Steve Rozmiarek]

How have ICF concrete building costs done? Lot of rebar cost in them.
Bill D

Concrete is looking pretty good right now. I keep hearing rumblings of price increases though, so that will probably change. Foam products are horrible, so the ICF themselves are double what they were a couple years ago. Then you have to put a roof on it. Engineered components, trusses and joists, are the major glitch in my area. I can't even find TJI reliably right now, and when I do they are 3x the cost of 2 years ago. Trusses are unobtainable for practical use, like 6 months delayed and 3x the old price. Rebar and steel are higher, but not price gouging higher.

[John K Jordan]

Robert, can you do any of it yourself? That can save a bundle, of course, in labor costs. It takes a lot of time but being retired and having existing temporary shop space might make it feasible.

That’s what I did. When we moved to this farm in ’04 I went from a small dedicated shop building at the previous place to 1/2 of a 2-car garage for woodturning and a few flat wood tools. (very tight!) When I decided to build the shop after I retired I didn’t have a fortune to spend so I did almost all of it myself, from clearing the land to wiring the lights. It did take a few years but the cost wasn’t much more than materials. Of course, being on farm property out in a rural area eliminates a lot of the bureaucracy likely encountered in many areas.

After putting up the post and beam structure I did hire a builder friend to put up the trusses with a crane and install the roofing. I also passing another guy to pour and surface the concrete after I did the forming and installed all the rebar. I dug a trench and ran power underground and paid a a utility guy (after hours) $100 to put in a new meter base and connect the power. I installed a heat/air system and paid a company to plumb, pressurize, and test. I hired agutter guy to install seamless gutters. Everything else I did myself. I did have the advantage of my own dirt-moving equipment, the ability to haul and move all the materials, plenty of tools, and considerable construction and electrical experience (personal only, not professional). I did almost everything with a Bosch glide miter saw, cordless power tools, welders, and a variety of measurement and hand tools, including a rotary laser level. (I tell people I built the shop with my bare hands but I lied. I used tools. :)

I ended up with a 24x62 building with small office area, woodturning area with two lathes, flatwood tools: cabinet saw, drum sander, planer, jointer, etc., cyclone DC and air compressor closet, small welding/metal-working room, tiny machine shop, three commercial insulated garage doors, and room to dry and store a massive number of turning blanks plus incubators and brooders for raising peacocks, guineas, and new this year, turkeys! What’s missing is a bathroom and little kitchen but those are a planned addition.

Besides the huge cost savings, building it myself insured everything is done right and exactly to plan and to my own schedule, plus providing a level of satisfaction.

I realize this way is not for everyone but it might be worth considering. Even if a number of things need to be hired out you can be the contractor and save a lot as money.

JKJ




I retired from the Air Force close to two years ago. It took us until now to find the house we wanted. So, I was ready to finally have a space dedicated for a wood shop instead of cramming into here or there as we moved every three years. We have a great house with some land and a perfect spot for a detached garage. I received the first estimate and about died. I was hoping to have a fully complete ~32x24 garage built. It came in at $110k which didn't include any heating or cooling. I asked for a scaled-down 2-car size with an option for no electric (other than run a 100 amp box), insulation, drywall and only french doors. It still came in at over $80k. I have another contractor working on an estimate at this time.

I had also requested the drive be extended (about 10x40 of concrete) in front of the garage.

Is this the going rate for those that know? If so, looks like I'll be stuck in the attached garage for a while.

[Dave Sabo]

Fellas , well those of you that think Robert’s quote is outa line - have you been to a store lately ? Any store ?

Gas & oil prices have doubled in the last two years. Lots o building material made from petroleum. And they need to be delivered, even the ones not made from oil. Metal prices have soared too. Lots of building materials made from metals. And they need to be delivered. Labor costs have skyrocketed too. And those folks have to be delivered to your worksite in vehicles using gas that costs 2x what it did pre-Rona.

Financing costs are up too, which adds to a project’s overhead whether or not you are borrowing to fund the project. Coupled with strong demand, a backlog of work , and the above mentioned - stuff costs more today. A LOT MORE. Even if the bottom drops out tomorrow demand and backlog will still be present and any kind of price correction wouldn’t be seen for at least a year or two, if at all. The people left working if there is a contraction aren’t going to work for less $ all of a sudden. Would you ? And labor is a huge percentage of a project’s cost. Prices aren’t going down anytime soon. They may stabilize, but Robert’s garage & driveway isn’t going to cost $75k ever.

We had to up our overhead costs 9% to net the same effective rate we charged last year. And I’m not sure it’ll be enough. Which means my customer saw a ten point increase in what he pays plus the additional material costs. But, we’re not making any more money at the end of the day.

[Andrew More]

Fellas , well those of you that think Robert’s quote is outa line - have you been to a store lately ? Any store ?

Yes. I seem to go to the Home Depot about every other day, one of the joys of an older home. :)

I also built a 16'x24' extension to the front of my garage/workshop last year about this time. Prices are up (unless they're down, lumber futures have been doing a yo-yo, currently back to pre 2019 prices), and I could not find ANYBODY to pour the concrete footers needed. However, Walmart, Target and Kohl's all said they had excess inventory, which means discounts (deflation). Oil has shot up, and is likely to remain elevated for a while, so I'd expect higher prices for gas, unless the layoffs start cutting into that. (Hasn't impacted gas demand yet)

All that having been said $100K still sound excessive for a building of that size, partially from watching a guy on YouTube, and partially from my own experiences. My project came it at around $15K for materials, when lumber was actually higher than it is now. I also installed a metal roof over the entire garage (40'x24'), over did the electricals, and installed fiberglass + 1" XPS, covered in drywall. I don't think $50-75K is unreasonable, but $100K sounds excessive to me.

[Larry Frank]

I bought some pressure treated at HD this week and the cashier said the price has gone done about 10%. I also just checked a price index for construction limber and it is down from the high last March. With the increase in costs and interest rates, the rate of new construction will slow and maybe the price of lumber will go down.

480931

[Jim Becker]

Dave, yes, I've been to the home center nearly daily and material prices have been decreasing. I'm also in the middle of a shop build project and costed out multiple building types while making my own decision. While some materials are still elevated, hard to get or even "unobtainium" and labor rates are up because it's the only way to get help, I still feel that the OP's quote would have been a big "no" for me, too. It may very well be like someone suggested...the builder who quoted bid high because they either don't want the job or are so busy that they wouldn't be able to do the job if they wanted to within some reasonable period of time. My builder has me scheduled for mid-September at the earliest and I signed the contract in March.

[Andrew More]

I bought some pressure treated at HD this week and the cashier said the price has gone done about 10%.

Yes ~$600 is a much more normal price, but it takes a while to work through the system.

[Dave Sabo]

Ah….. my favorite - a guy on youtooob said.
I also read on the internet about a turnkey garage for $25k.

You make it seem like lumber is the biggest component in a garage. It’s not. And while it may be lower ; wire, concrete, shingles, receptacles, panels, and insulation are not. And one of the biggest components , labor, is way up, everywhere.

A contractor costs a job based on your specs (or his) for a given market. Doesn’t matter what the price is in VT, or VA, or OH if I live in ATL , L.A or the Lou like the OP does. Seems like $145/sq.ft. is the cost there - which includes the additional 400sf of driveway. Be tough to get that done for that price in my neighborhood. But it’s certainly a bargain compared to Bryan’s hood where that garage would be half a million buck plus.

Things cost what they cost wherever you are and we all make value judgements on them everyday. Just because the price is higher than you value , doesn’t mean it’s outa line.

[Andrew More]

Ah….. my favorite - a guy on youtooob said.

You seem pretty quick to dismiss the rest of the first hand information, and the answer to your question. And the guy on YouTube builds garages every single day of the week, all month long, all year long, posts all the costs, and has a few videos diving into his rationale for the prices he charges.

When I built my garage concrete was pretty normal, the metal roof was about twice the price, the electrical equipment was pretty much the same, wire was about 2x, insulation seems about the same. We focus on lumber because that's the main material costs, everything else with relatively insignificant.

Sure you can pay whatever you like, but that's not the subject which is what is a price that's within the ranges of most people's experience. The prices the OP quote are outside the norm based on all the information presented.

[Robert Hartmann]

John, I considered doing some of the work and still might go that route. I'm reluctant to though due to the time factor and without friends or family in the area would be on my own. I started late on the family and have three kids still in the house, so I would prefer spending time with them or woodworking. My cost analyst wife also said I need to work a few more years (since I like my toys and to travel), so I have a day job.

I'm still waiting on the other estimates. For now I set everything up in one bay of the garage and will make due. I was hoping prices would stabilize by next spring, but some comments here make me think that won't happen.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Ah….. my favorite - a guy on youtooob said.
I also read on the internet about a turnkey garage for $25k.

You make it seem like lumber is the biggest component in a garage. It’s not. And while it may be lower ; wire, concrete, shingles, receptacles, panels, and insulation are not. And one of the biggest components , labor, is way up, everywhere.

A contractor costs a job based on your specs (or his) for a given market. Doesn’t matter what the price is in VT, or VA, or OH if I live in ATL , L.A or the Lou like the OP does. Seems like $145/sq.ft. is the cost there - which includes the additional 400sf of driveway. Be tough to get that done for that price in my neighborhood. But it’s certainly a bargain compared to Bryan’s hood where that garage would be half a million buck plus.

Things cost what they cost wherever you are and we all make value judgements on them everyday. Just because the price is higher than you value , doesn’t mean it’s outa line.

Exactly. Lumber products are 20-30% of the total cost of a house, a little higher for a garage. Labor is a much higher cost component. Any cost savings from a slight decrease in lumber prices from their record highs is being more than offset by inflation driven labor and overhead cost increases. At least for my company, in my area, but we're probably not alone.

Everything gets hauled several times on a truck that is now burning $6 diesel to get to the site, which is staffed by crews that didn't walk to work. 200% plus cost of fuel increases have effects.

From a DIY perspective, the 80K quote might look high because true labor cost isn't being taken into account.

[Andrew More]

From a DIY perspective, the 80K quote might look high because true labor cost isn't being taken into account.

Quote was $110K. I'd agree with you if it was closer to $80K. Labor's also harder to judge because it's going to vary a lot more dependent on location. The guy in Vermont was getting closer to $50K for comparable buildings which included a 3-4 man crew.

[Dave Sabo]

You seem pretty quick to dismiss the rest of the first hand information, and the answer to your question. And the guy on YouTube builds garages every single day of the week, all month long, all year long, posts all the costs, and has a few videos diving into his rationale for the prices he charges.

No , not really. I am somewhat dismissive of folks who love to say they "read on the internet" or " I saw on youtube" and somehow think the info seen there is the gospel. And while it may sometimes be accurate , often it is not. And even if it were accurate at the time, it's just as likely to be outdated by the time you see it. Especially when talking about prices in today's economy.

And the YT fella in question may be genuine and accurate for his area. But those prices are pretty meaningless in Atlanta, or Cincy, or St. Louis. And in SoCal or SanFran - that excessive $110k you're poo pooing wouldn't get you half a garage. Won't even get you a return phone call from a contractor. You seem to be fixated on lumber costs being cheaper - which should make garages cheaper than a year ago. You also seem to be dismissing that pretty much everything else in the mix has a higher cost that a year ago too. With the biggest part being labor. So, ya "save" a few hundred on wood, but its get clawed back on the other material and you get whacked over the head with a 2x4 on the cost of labor today. Making the whole thing more expensive that your project a year ago.



The prices the OP quote are outside the norm based on all the information presented.

How do you figure ? I'm not sure how you'd even put a number on what the "norm" is based solely on this thread. Your perspective is not the norm. Nor is mine. Nor is Bryan's Or the YT guy's. That price is below the norm in my neighborhood. It's apparently waaaaaaaaay below the norm in Bryan's. It's below the norm in Dallas too. Can't tell ya about St. Louis, which is all that really matters for Robert. Don't let your feelings for what something is worth or priced at in your little corner of the world distort what something will cost elsewhere.



I still feel that the OP's quote would have been a big "no" for me, too. It may very well be like someone suggested...the builder who quoted bid high because they either don't want the job or are so busy that they wouldn't be able to do the job if they wanted to within some reasonable period of time.

Jim you bring up another current flowing in this discussion. A garage isn't worth $110k to you. Fair enough. Seems others here agree with you. But not everyone. I think you and some other's are very quick to paint contractors handing out inflated prices. You appear to have not accounted for the huge increase in costs (and risk) for running a profitable contracting business. It simply costs more to do business today than it did i June of last year. I know you know this, but it seems you haven't fully accounted for the increase. Which would/could make Robert's quote not unreasonable for St. Louis.

On another note, if demand is up so much that your little garage is not as attractive or profitable as a deck or kitchen addition or whatever -and to make it attractive requires a premium.............then that's the new pricing reality too.

[Adam Herman]

480957

I have this going up right now, pole barn, 12 ft walls 40x36 with 10 ft porch on one side. going to be around 80k. insulated w/ concrete and garage doors. no electrical or hvac.

[Perry Holbrook]

Since cost are so regional, I don't know if this helps, but I just got my co on my shop today. Stick built, 4" walls, sheetrock. 5 large sliding windows, 8' garage door. personnel door, built on slab, 20x35x9. Built by contractor on cost plus contract. Estimate last March was about $65/sq ft. We upgraded the roofing, and the siding (pvc 12" B & B). Looks like we'll be about $75/sq ft now. Plus $7K for lots of wiring. Mini split will be about $2K. So about $85/sq ft total.

Time to start moving in.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Quote was $110K. I'd agree with you if it was closer to $80K. Labor's also harder to judge because it's going to vary a lot more dependent on location. The guy in Vermont was getting closer to $50K for comparable buildings which included a 3-4 man crew.

OP said the scaled back quote is $80k. Fully finished was higher. I don't know what his definition of fully finished is.

If anyone thinks that is expensive for a shop, $80,000 master closets exist.

[Bryan Lisowski]

I agree that these factors vary location to location. Things cost more in NJ than Nebraska, but may be cheaper than LA. Also with regard to labor, most people get shocked how large of a component that is, and DIY isn’t cheaper, it’s just how much you value your time. I’m sure I could build a pole barn, but me taking six months of my time in the end probably costs a lot more than the company you contract with to have done in 3-4 days.

[John K Jordan]

…and DIY isn’t cheaper, it’s just how much you value your time…

Building it yourself is definitely not for everybody.

Much may depend on if you are completely retired or not. Other factors may be your level of construction experience, electrical knowhow, design skills, energy level and drive, ability to stay focused for an extended time, financial motivation, and yes, patience. A one-man crew will of course take longer.

From clearing and site prep to plumbing the air compressor lines and turning on the cyclone DC took me several years. I wouldn’t have considered it when still working a full-time job. For me, having backhoe, bobcat, and other equipment on hand instead having to hire or rent was also a consideration. But a huge factor for me was not ending up with the sloppy work i’ve seen from some get-it-done “professionals”.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I chose to do the site prep myself...it would have been $5-6K to have someone else do it, so other than my time, fuel for the Big Orange Power Tool and the cost of my Stabila rotary laser, I managed the job for about $3K. I'll also do all the interior finishes, HVAC, etc., as well as all the electrical beyond the basic service. Building the actual structure...not something I'd be up for which is why I hired the company to do it rather than buying a "kit".

[Thomas Colson]

For those saying "Lumber prices are going down!", that has absolutely zero influence these days on construction costs. Labor costs have moved from "silly" to "unimaginable" territory. Insurance/bond costs are up. Anything involving a delivery truck (concrete, a few pallets of insulation) are about doubled. If you're putting electric in there, figure about 3X what it cost 3 years ago. That's if you can actually get the materials. I have detailed plans for adding a wood storage "shed" to the side of my shop with links to all the materials. Every time I get excited that 2 by's went down a dollar, some other component went up 50% (again), and the total price just keeps increasing. When I first planned it a year ago, it was 4400$ in materials, me-labor. Now it's 6800$. Even the inspections are going up, they've figured out they can sustain their budgets with 2-3 red tag visits (which require a 150$ reinspection fee each time) whereas previously they'd "work with you" during the first and only (last) inspection visit. Any decrease in lumber costs are kept by the GC, they are not passing those decreases to you.

I'm at the point now where WW as a hobby is not sustainable for me, cost-wise, and I'm likely going to finish this cabin renovation (hence the need for WW tools and materials) and sell the shop and contents when I'm done, and find a cheaper hobby like getting divorced in Massachusetts or sailboats.

[Bill Dufour]

Does it still apply that for a person doing the work themselves roof trusses are no cheaper then rafters? Of course I mean for a reasonable span like 24 feet or so. It used to be that trusses cost more but cost less labor to install so they made sense for a paid crew.
Bill D

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Does it still apply that for a person doing the work themselves roof trusses are no cheaper then rafters? Of course I mean for a reasonable span like 24 feet or so. It used to be that trusses cost more but cost less labor to install so they made sense for a paid crew.
Bill D

With truss prices tripling here, we're going back to hand framing roofs where we can as it is now cheaper and more importantly no 6 month lead time. This is with a full crew.

[Jim Becker]

I could see a truss shortage being a big issue for businesses like the post frame company I'm working with, but they have been making their own for a very long time, AFAIK.

[andrew whicker]

I'm bidding a 24ft x 24ft garage w/ bonus room and it's coming out to ~100k. ($135 / sq ft ish)


We have a huge concrete shortage here in UT because one of the concrete companies had a huge fire. Great.

Our truss prices are also high. So are lumber prices. So is everything.

[Ric Jones]

while new here am not to woodworking or construction, been a GC in Phoenix, Az for over 42 years and before that ran a family biz that was started in ''46'' here building homes.

any event, i started my shop (36x28 with a 12ft x36 ft covered patio on south side. 10ft walls, trusses, foamed underside of roof, walls 2x6 with r19 covered interior walls with 5/8;'' ply (got a deal from a vendor on a couple bunks, used it for everything it happened to be CC ply .
half dozen windows, one roll up 8x8 door, two man doors, did install a restroom ,and inside made an 8ft x20ft clean room so to speak, separate from the work space, and an after thought i added an 8ft x 5 ft x 9ft tall lean too add on to house air compressor and dust collection, so i wouldn't have to hear it inside, insulated it for sound, and gave it fresh air intake and exhaust.
i did put a dual zone mini split in the shop, 2 ton unit, and a almost 1 ton unit in the clean/office room)
electrical outlets approximately every 4-5 ft, opposite sides of building outlets are on same circuit as opposite side, chances of me using both sides of a 28 ft deep building outlet is slim, it allowed me to have different circuits every four feet, about 8 220 v outlets, installed, led lights hanging one almost needs sun glasses at my age, light is bootiful. one cieilng hung air cleaner, trusses are open i put two 60 inch ceiling fans up inside trusses, and the office area is a mezzanie, framed to 8'6'' finish outside, and supports a lot of the wood stash. bathroom with wash sink and water closet. 125 amp panel was all i could get and available. and i know way too many large outlets but being a one man shop its no issue, i'm always aware of the possible over load if using more than a few 220 v outlets at once, while there is chance of an overload it is quite remote


i figure i'm into it for about 80k, i had planned it, but got nailed just as prices started to rise, go figure, waited a life time to build my own joint and get hit with the high buck costs.
my only regret is letting the other half talk me out of an additional 10ft in length of shop, i'm still figuring out the flow, and organizing, i have a 4hp griz dust collector to finish installing, and as noted struggling with locating my major tools.
i have two wood lathes, two 10 inc table saws one with a sliding table, two band saws, 2 floor drill presses, router table, chop saw on stand, misc. roll around flip carts, having moved after i sold my building near us from 2k sf ft. to my new to me shop.

I'm slowly getting it figured out, even though i had a few years to plan it, once i got it enclosed, the struggle began, my friend Tom who has a shop about same size, says he still moves things to maybe adjust the flow, lol,
so i'm leaving the crap on wheels at my age three quarters of a century moving a cabinet saw sucks.

remember build it big, once and don't look back,

i'm shutting down my biz in july of this year ,and well my new home is air conditioned, and packed with so called dust making projects.

I opted to go with quality products, my best move was to foam the underside of roof, its 106 today, and inside with no ac building is 85 degrees, i can cool it to 80 degress with ac in about 40 mins. just comfy
ok ,sorry for long story, but just wanted to share that being a professional builders i still struggled with products, materials and prices, and for contractors the days of a great deal or discounts have been long gone, and sometimes one can just buy better material at the big box stores rather than a lumber broker, just not timely though.

good luck to those that wanna build a dream shop. just plan on moving crap regularly or ...........

rj in az

[John K Jordan]

...as noted struggling with locating my major tools.
i have two wood lathes, two 10 inc table saws one with a sliding table, two band saws, 2 floor drill presses, router table, chop saw on stand, misc. roll around flip carts, having moved after i sold my building near us from 2k sf ft. to my new to me shop.
I'm slowly getting it figured out, even though i had a few years to plan it, once i got it enclosed, the struggle began, my friend Tom who has a shop about same size, says he still moves things to maybe adjust the flow, lol,
so i'm leaving the crap on wheels at my age three quarters of a century moving a cabinet saw sucks.

remember build it big, once and don't look back,...

That's good advice! I'm 72 now and I'd hate to even think about building another shop.

I tried to plan to avoid moving things. It was mostly successful. I had bought the major tools before I built the shop (I was afraid I might be too broke later) so I knew the footprints and infeed-outfeed space needed. I made plan after plan until I was satisfied. I ended up leaving one bandsaw in the garage and the third big lathe in a storage building unless needed. By planning before construction I could easily do things like position some double doors to allow for longer infeed/outfeed on the table saw if needed. For someone in the planning stage, I highly recommend this method: make a scale drawing and scale cutouts from paper. This is part of one plan, in progress, still sliding things around:

481138

I also made some paper circles representing the minimum and desired passage space between tools, bench, etc. and "walked" them through the candidate plans. When I got things finalized I taped down the paper slips and made a drawing. I did similar planning for the electrical outlets, lights, and air compressor lines, long before I started working putting up the building. Making these plans even helped me decide where to put some of the interior walls.

Although I am well experienced in 2D and 3D drawing/modeling, I found it easier and quicker to do it the old way with paper cutouts.

As mentioned elsewhere, my shop is 24x62. The length was limited by the site but to this day I wish I had made it 30' wide instead of 24. That wouldn't have cost much more.

481139

I did make some minor changes as I changed directions (e.g., put in incubators for peacocks/guineas in a corner of the main shop and used what is labeled as maintenance bays primarily for raising birds, turning wood storage, little machine shop, and fluids and filters for equipment maintenance), but the basic planning has mostly worked well. The drum sander is on wheels but the cabinet saw hasn't been budged even an inch since set into place. One thing I did change my mind about was the number and placement of windows. I realized that wall space was more valuable to me than the natural light and view so I eliminated several windows. It's just a few steps to where I can see the barn, llamas, and bird pens. I have daylight fixtures so bright one visitor said he needed sun glasses. Works for me.

JKJ

[Lawrence Duckworth]

With truss prices tripling here, we're going back to hand framing roofs where we can as it is now cheaper and more importantly no 6 month lead time. This is with a full crew.

I know you guys are mostly talking wood and housing but last I heard Nucor is 12+ months out on bar joist.

[Jim Bennett]

We are getting ready to rebuild an old house and are stalled because our window delivery is 6 months out. The garage door we selected was quoted as 6-12 month delivery! (we selected a different door with a 2 week delivery)

[Bill George]

In 1999 when I was teaching (HVAC/R) I would go in early and get off at 2 pm. The program next to me was the Building Trades carpenter one. The instructor and I were friends and he gave me a copy of the textbook they used.

I decided I could DIY a 24x24 with 9 foot ceilings garage - shop. Ordered the Kit from Menards and it came with Everything. I did my concrete forms and hired the pour and finishing. Did the rest of the build myself, with my son helping with the trusses. I had never built anything like that before, took my time and followed the prints and the textbook.

When I was done I had maybe $12,000 and that included insulation, drywall, wiring and heat and cool. Heat was a scratch and dent gas heater Reznor, AC was used window unit. Wiring was overkill and same for the lights. It took me 3 years to get it all done.

I would imagine todays cost with me DIY would be $36,000. Heck lumber is so high now I am holding off re-siding my shed!

[Chris Parks]

Building it yourself is definitely not for everybody.

Much may depend on if you are completely retired or not. Other factors may be your level of construction experience, electrical knowhow, design skills, energy level and drive, ability to stay focused for an extended time, financial motivation, and yes, patience. A one-man crew will of course take longer.

From clearing and site prep to plumbing the air compressor lines and turning on the cyclone DC took me several years. I wouldn’t have considered it when still working a full-time job. For me, having backhoe, bobcat, and other equipment on hand instead having to hire or rent was also a consideration. But a huge factor for me was not ending up with the sloppy work i’ve seen from some get-it-done “professionals”.

JKJ

I built mine while working one full time job, one part time job and doing tertiary studies. I got it done in about 3 years and had I known how much it was going to cost would never have started it. We set up floodlights because after dark was too valuable to not be using the hours.

[Jim Becker]

I actually did consider doing the build myself...and after careful consideration, chose to "pick my battles". I'll still save a lot of cost relative to the things I do, but I decided it was better to have folks who "do it every day" get the actual structure up as that's the hardest labor and best done with a crew. They'll do that in two days, not including the "drilling day", while it would likely take me weeks to accomplish the same, and that's assuming I could get the help needed. So the building, the concrete and the basic electrical service get done by the "pros" in my case.

[Chris Parks]

I should have added I was 40 years younger than I am now. It is a two level building built into the side of a very steep slope and just digging the hole took a year. I chose to dig the hole and get contractors to do the slab and erect the block retaining walls. I made up the story as I went because I had absolutely no idea of what I was doing, I do mean none. I had helped build a house many years before but that had been because I had to and I took no interest in the process at all. I think in my country costs have risen so much it is now worthwhile to do it yourself but I feel that no one has the patience and long term view to do it these days. As for working two jobs to get the money, if I mention that to younger people they look at me as if I have a screw loose. I vividly recall standing and looking at the area to be excavated and thinking where in the hell do I start.

[Mark Gibney]

Jim (and anyone else) can you tell me why post and beam is cheaper than stick framing?
In the next few years I might want to build a 4-car garage workshop, so information like this is important to understand.

[Andrew More]

I'll still save a lot of cost relative to the things I do, but I decided it was better to have folks who "do it every day" get the actual structure up as that's the hardest labor and best done with a crew.

FWIW, I found framing the walls to be fine. I was a bit intimidated at first, but a standard 8' section of wall is very doable with one person. The rafters were also intimidating, but honestly that was easily done piece by piece. Might be a different story with prebuild rafters. I did have to have some help putting in the header over the double garage door, which was 2x12x16 + 1/2 piece of plywood between. That I think worked out to about 200# or so.

Concrete definitely needs a crew, but I was able to pour my own with a bunch of buddies doing the moving and dumping.

Roofing is usually going to be 1-2 guys. My brother and I installed the previous roof over the 24x24' garage, and I was able to install a metal roof over the new 40'x24' garage by myself over the course of a couple of days.

Siding was pretty simple since I was using zip siding. Probably would have been a bit easier with a helper to hold while I nailed, but I was able to do it myself.

The double garage door needed a buddy to help move the pieces, but the rest of the install was a solo project. I managed to talk my wife into helping, since it was mostly awkward, rather than heavy.

All told I think I spent 2-3 weeks on it. A crew might have been a bit quicker, but I was also working some very long days in a way most crews would not.

I understand everybody is going to have different capabilities and talents, but this is definitely a project that can be mostly done solo with a little help here and there.

[Jim Becker]

Jim (and anyone else) can you tell me why post and beam is cheaper than stick framing?
In the next few years I might want to build a 4-car garage workshop, so information like this is important to understand.

Post frame (which is different than post and beam) and often also called a "pole barn", goes up very quickly which brings substantially less labor to the party. It's also a less complicated structure as the posts carry all the weight...stick framed, you're dealing with headers and more involved load transfer. This is for the basic structure, of course. How you finish it out will affect the cost. Typical metal cladding installed vertically is less labor intensive and less costly than sheathing and some form of siding. Stick frame nearly always has to be sheathed for structural reasons. That's not necessary with post-frame. But many folks do clad a post frame building with sheathing and normal siding when that's what's required for appearances. It adds cost, but may still be less expensive than a typical stick frame building. One other aspect comes into play here, too...wall height. Stick framing taller walls gets to be "fun". Post frame, for the most part, doesn't care. Bigger and taller buildings are just engineered to use heaver laminated posts and the doubled connections across the posts along the sides that support the trusses are just beefed up further based on normal and local engineering requirements. A small building like mine uses three ply laminated posts that are nominally 6" in cross section. IT literally will be built from the ground up in less than two days for the 24x36x10 size I opted for. The only way to get close to that with stick framing is panelized pre-construction and I did get quotes for that, too. It was 30-50% more.

Post and beam...now you're talking timber frame and oh, would I really love to be able to do that! Timber frame with SIPs would be nirvana. :) (ching...ching....)

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Jim (and anyone else) can you tell me why post and beam is cheaper than stick framing?
In the next few years I might want to build a 4-car garage workshop, so information like this is important to understand.

Adding to what Jim said, pole sheds are cheaper because of the foundation. Pole sheds allow use of wood posts below grade to replace the typical perimeter foundation or slab. There will eventually be more issues with the wood posts below grade than a concrete foundation, so pole buildings are a compromise of lifespan vs cost. That's just fine in lots of scenarios like ag barns and utility shops, but it is also why they are not allowed in many places.

The cost advantage of a pole shed dwindles when you start pouring floors. Also you have to deal with that bottom girt or bang board being in contact with the soil, and it being your support for the bottom of the steel. When pouring a concrete floor inside that board, you use it as a form, but it's then got a whole different dynamic with moisture and bug vulnerability. Pay close attention to details in that area. Water management and pest control will keep a pole shed going a lot longer.

[Jim Becker]

Even the potential lifetime issues with the posts is less concern now than in the past. The laminated posts being used for my building have a "lifetime" warranty. Who's lifetime...I don't know, but I'm sure not going to worry about it. But there are also accomodations for a slight uplift in initial cost that totally mitigate the risk of rot, etc...Perma Column which has a very strong concrete addition to the bottom of the laminated post and makes for zero ground contact and poured piers with heavy steel mounting brackets for structures that need to carry more weight are common at this point. There are also various types of dips/wraps that are intermediate between bare post and concrete, too.

On the grade board, they are PT for ground contact and it's now common to tape/coat the bottom. That, combined with stone that drains really helps prolong life. But yes, proper grading, as with any kind of building is absolutely essential. When you do see rot on grade boards, it's most likely going to be because of inattention to ground water and/or other water leaks from above.

[Mark Gibney]

Jim, Steve, thanks for the primer on this.
Jim, feel free to have a build thread going if you don't already!

[Jim Becker]

Jim, feel free to have a build thread going if you don't already!

I do have a thread...it's just going to be quiet for awhile because of scheduling. The actual build is currently pegged for mid-September with "drilling" tentatively on 8 September and then the approximate two days of build for the 12th. I'll have the electrician in as immediately as possible as well as the concrete folks to do their prep. I'll be putting down the insulation for the floor and then the concrete folks will be back to "do the deed" which I'm pleasantly surprised will include coating on the floor which saves me time and money. The thread is quiet at present simply because nothing is happening for now.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

On the grade board, they are PT for ground contact and it's now common to tape/coat the bottom. That, combined with stone that drains really helps prolong life. But yes, proper grading, as with any kind of building is absolutely essential. When you do see rot on grade boards, it's most likely going to be because of inattention to ground water and/or other water leaks from above.

Very true, 9/10 that we replace aren't even pressure treated. People will skimp on the dumbest things.

[John K Jordan]

....
On the grade board, they are PT for ground contact and it's now common to tape/coat the bottom. That, combined with stone that drains really helps prolong life. But yes, proper grading, as with any kind of building is absolutely essential. When you do see rot on grade boards, it's most likely going to be because of inattention to ground water and/or other water leaks from above.

I wonder if the quality of pressure treating has decreased, at least for what is sold at the box store. I had a low 10x10 deck for the dogs not in contact with the ground - PT deck boards rotted in places enough to stick my foot through. Rebuild - the same thing happened after about 8 years. Rebuilt it from scratch with Trex.

I also had a small deck on a slope 3-4' above the (well drained) ground. Not only did the PT deck boards rot through after about 10 years but the beams and joists did too in places. The only thing that didn't rot was the posts in the ground. I replaced the entire thing, decking with trex this time.

JKJ

[Ron Hampe]

Local hvac wholesalers were all higher than Amazon when I bought my mini-split heat pump in November 2021 and none had them in stock. Free shipping too and it was here in 4 days. I went with a Daikin 19 seer 24000 btu kit which included everything except the outside disconnect for my 24' x 38' shop. Comes with a 12 year warranty but to get it you will need to have an hvac guy sign off on the installation.

[Ron Hampe]

Although they have come down some, prices are still high. I would suggest having someone frame it then doing the interior yourself. Takes time and working alone at 64 took longer yet, I'm 68 now and saved a small fortune that way, but to date I've spent $15k on materials.

Mine is in the upper 3 bays of our detached 38'x38' block garage and the shop is 24' x 38', with 8' x 8' pallet racks for lumber storage and 2 dust collectors taking up part of the lower bay. Main shop is fully insulated with R21 walls and R30+ in the ceiling, new 200a panel, 2 ton mini split heat pump, LED lighting and wiring in conduit. I did break down and pay a contractor $800 to install new continuous gutters and downspouts. Ceiling in lower bay is insulated and I have an estimate of $1500 for the metal roofing materials which I will be installing.

You could also save by getting separate bids for everything. Most contractors charge you a percentage on top of what they are actually paying their subs. Many also mark up the price of materials so you can save there by buying it yourself and likely get better quality materials. Being a vet, Lowe's will give you a 10% discount on everything you buy there and their bulk prices will save you at least another 10%. Home depot isn't nearly as kind, but if you register as a contractor and buy thru their Pro desk they too will give you a discount.

[John K Jordan]

If you want to save money when buying materials, ask your building supplier if they have damaged sheet good prices. I bought siding for my shop with slightly damaged corners and edges where someone bumped it with a fork lift. Didn't affect the construction or appearance at all. They sold it for $5/sheet (a few years back).

I only buy from the pro building suppliers, never from HD or Lowes. I usually bought in bulk (bundle, "unit") and hauled it myself.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I wonder if the quality of pressure treating has decreased, at least for what is sold at the box store.


I believe that is true to a certain extent in the retail outlets...one has to be really careful about the description/specifications for the particular product they are buying for sure. There are multiple grades of pressure treatment...it's not all the same and that's not necessarily evident on retail shelf price stickers. Post Frame builders tend to buy their laminated poles from specialty manufacturers and one would hope that the preservation process being used on the in-ground portion of the post is up to the task, particularly with the so-called "lifetime" warranty many builders offer on them, including my builder. I would also imagine, but can't say for sure, that many of these same builders are buying their PT sticks in bunks, maybe directly from the treatment folks. Hopefully, that would mean the correct product for ground contact elements, such as grade boards. Hard to say, however...different firms take different attitudes about material purchasing. Some embrace the best they can get for the long term benefits it brings and others buy "best price" to maximize profit at all costs. It's no different than any other kind of business.

[Adam Herman]

I believe that is true to a certain extent in the retail outlets...one has to be really careful about the description/specifications for the particular product they are buying for sure. There are multiple grades of pressure treatment...it's not all the same and that's not necessarily evident on retail shelf price stickers. Post Frame builders tend to buy their laminated poles from specialty manufacturers and one would hope that the preservation process being used on the in-ground portion of the post is up to the task, particularly with the so-called "lifetime" warranty many builders offer on them, including my builder. I would also imagine, but can't say for sure, that many of these same builders are buying their PT sticks in bunks, maybe directly from the treatment folks. Hopefully, that would mean the correct product for ground contact elements, such as grade boards. Hard to say, however...different firms take different attitudes about material purchasing. Some embrace the best they can get for the long term benefits it brings and others buy "best price" to maximize profit at all costs. It's no different than any other kind of business.

ask what spec they are using. my building came with all SYP structural grade lumber I don't recall the % for the treatment though.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, post frame builders have to use certain grades of lumber for certain purposes which isn't unlike with stick framing. Those beefy horizontal boards at the top that support the trusses are a good example. SYP at a specific grade is indicated there...the nomenclature starts with an "M" but I forget the rest of the acronym. Treated is typically only for the posts and grade boards since they have ground contact. For girts and purlins, things are generally untreated and the requirements are sometimes a little less strict because they are not supporting the building, per se, outside of keeping things square and providing a place to hang the exterior finishes, such as the typical vertical metal panels or sheathing if regular siding and/or roofing is chosen. But it's still good lumber that gets used. Bigger buildings get beefier girts and purlins, however, as that makes for a stiffer structure when the wind howls. :)

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I wonder if the quality of pressure treating has decreased, at least for what is sold at the box store.
JKJ


About 20 years ago CCA pressure treating started being replaced by ACQ. Chromated copper arsenate vs alkaline copper quaternary. Probably a scary chemical in the old CCA stuff that had been in use since the 30's. The new ACQ stuff is more corrosive to fasteners and isn't as good in ground contact. Menards still carries some CCA for use in ground contact situations, specifically in pole sheds. I don't think any CCA is still made in the states so maybe they are using old stock.

[Adam Herman]

About 20 years ago CCA pressure treating started being replaced by ACQ. Chromated copper arsenate vs alkaline copper quaternary. Probably a scary chemical in the old CCA stuff that had been in use since the 30's. The new ACQ stuff is more corrosive to fasteners and isn't as good in ground contact. Menards still carries some CCA for use in ground contact situations, specifically in pole sheds. I don't think any CCA is still made in the states so maybe they are using old stock.

and there is another, i found a tag from my buildings lumber.

it is micronized copper azole MCA

[Jim Becker]

Is that the brown one, Adam?

[Robert Hartmann]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts/ideas. I've decided to wait until next year and see what happens with prices. Our new house has an attached 4-car garage (although 4 would be tight), but with two cars, kids bikes/toys and yard stuff I managed to claim most of one bay (I have to pull my car out for bigger projects). It's tight, but I managed to get just about everything set up in a usable way. It will do for now, but no heat or cooling. I have a pretty long honey-do list being a new house, so "fun" woodworking isn't going to happen until next spring anyway.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

and there is another, i found a tag from my buildings lumber.

it is micronized copper azole MCA

Good catch! You are correct.

A subcategory of the ACQ is AC2, which is a heavier application of ACQ. This is the cedar tone "ground contact" rated pressure treated decking stuff, it's brown. Maybe that's the one you mentioned Jim? Where it is actually ground contact rated, it might make good grade boards? I've never used it for that application. It is well marked with warnings to only use triple coated hot galvanized or stainless fasteners only. I'd be leary about it being in direct contact with the steel sheets, definitely would want a barrier in there.

[Jim Becker]

I haven't actually seen the "brown" stuff in this area...I was just curious if that was what was referenced.

[Christopher Charles]

Gasp! Park a car in the garage? (I jest with a bit of jealousy)

[Jim Becker]

Gasp! Park a car in the garage? (I jest with a bit of jealousy)

Yea, really...that's almost sacrilege! That said, once I have my shop building up, we will, for the first time in our adult lifetimes have the actual ability to park inside a garage. That certainly can be a nice thing, but it's also a potential liability as Professor Dr. SWMBO has challenges with "spatial navigation" and I seriously worry about her ability to use the garage without hitting something. I'm not saying this as a joke, unfortunately...it's a real issue that's sadly getting worse. Maybe we'll go to one vehicle once she retires which potentially will make this easier on my mind since that makes for a lot more room on the sides while parking in there.

{end digression}

[Alan Lightstone]

Yea, really...that's almost sacrilege! That said, once I have my shop building up, we will, for the first time in our adult lifetimes have the actual ability to park inside a garage. That certainly can be a nice thing, but it's also a potential liability as Professor Dr. SWMBO has challenges with "spatial navigation" and I seriously worry about her ability to use the garage without hitting something. I'm not saying this as a joke, unfortunately...it's a real issue that's sadly getting worse. Maybe we'll go to one vehicle once she retires which potentially will make this easier on my mind since that makes for a lot more room on the sides while parking in there.

{end digression}

Or, Jim, just get a car that has distance warning that tells you how close you are to objects. All of our cars have had these for 20 years (they're ultrasound sensors, I think). Removes that "spatial navigation" issue. I thought most cars had those these days. Maybe not. I've just considered them standard equipment. Many years ago (~25), I installed them on one of my cars.

[Bill Dufour]

Garage parking is easy to limit going to far. I lived in a house with a washer/dryer in the garage. The end of the garage was raised 6" for about 6' for the width of the end of the garage. This meant the washer dryer end was half a step up. If you drove in too far the front wheels would hit that curb and stop the car before the nose hit the washer. There was a slight slope down to the car door so the step down had to exist either right at the man door or the 6' further in. The man door was opposite the car door.
This feature cost roughly 1.5 yards of concrete. You could add the same with loose cinderblock and plywood or simply a level pile of wood.
Bill D.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

Or, Jim, just get a car that has distance warning that tells you how close you are to objects. .
Already have that to some extent native to the vehicles...there are other issues (medical) that come into play here. The "spatial visualization" and reaction risk is also not front/back, but side/corners and no amount of beeping warnings matter.

[John K Jordan]

Already have that to some extent native to the vehicles...there are other issues (medical) that come into play here. The "spatial visualization" and reaction risk is also not front/back, but side/corners and no amount of beeping warnings matter.

Just have Valet Jim park the car.

My Lovely Bride’s vision is such that she can only drive in sunlight - no night, dusk, rain, mist, fog, snow… Chauffeur John has the pleasure of doing the honors ss needed. Rescue John is on call in the event she is caught in a sudden change of condition.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

there are numerous ways to get around having the wooden poles below grade and subject to decay, there are concrete and steel bases that look like splints and they stick above the ground so the wood stays above grade,

[Jim Becker]

there are numerous ways to get around having the wooden poles below grade and subject to decay, there are concrete and steel bases that look like splints and they stick above the ground so the wood stays above grade,

Post 57...pardon the expression. :)

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?298314-Garage-cost-are-you-kidding-me&p=3201111#post3201111

[Walter Plummer]

My friend parked his car where he wanted to stop and then hung a tennis ball on a string so it just touched the windshield. My shop is in a one car garage that has the chimney intruding into it. If I ever emptied it, I think a car would have to be parked with great precision on all sides if you wanted to open both doors. Maybe tracks like the car wash? LOL.

[Alan Lightstone]

Just have Valet Jim park the car.

My last Tesla could automatically open the garage door, park the car (centers it around obstacles), then close the garage door behind it. With no occupants in the car. I'm not sure the new one can do that. It made for a cool video. But not at all sure about making that a daily activity.

[Ronald Blue]

I'm familiar with Wentzville. Are you in a subdivision with zoning and HOA or in the country? I know there isn't much "country" there. To many houses. I didn't go through every post and I know there have been some references to post frame buildings. Are they allowed where you are? More to the point there are also many options within that type too. It's been 5 years since I put mine up so prices aren't going to be of great value. But my 30"x56"x14 with column posts and concrete floor was right at $25,000. You have Menards in your area and you could use their free online estimator to get an idea on cost. I can find you better prices though. Their are 2 or 3 Amish building suppliers in this area that are usually 25% under Menards and maybe more. There are Amish north of you 30 mile or so. Inquire as to whether they have building crews. Eolia to Bowling Green area. Around here they are very busy but that's any good contractor these days. They could put the shell up in 2-3 days. The hardest part is getting the shell up and concrete is a challenge as well. I would certainly recommend you consider radiant floor heat. The only drawback is no air conditioning. I don't know what concrete is there currently. I just had 130 yards poured for my driveway. It was $130 a yard. Definitely check around on other options. Both Morton and Cleary are post frame companies that have been in business a long time and have crews to erect as well.

[Robert Hartmann]

I'm familiar with Wentzville. Are you in a subdivision with zoning and HOA or in the country? I know there isn't much "country" there. To many houses. I didn't go through every post and I know there have been some references to post frame buildings. Are they allowed where you are? More to the point there are also many options within that type too. It's been 5 years since I put mine up so prices aren't going to be of great value. But my 30"x56"x14 with column posts and concrete floor was right at $25,000. You have Menards in your area and you could use their free online estimator to get an idea on cost. I can find you better prices though. Their are 2 or 3 Amish building suppliers in this area that are usually 25% under Menards and maybe more. There are Amish north of you 30 mile or so. Inquire as to whether they have building crews. Eolia to Bowling Green area. Around here they are very busy but that's any good contractor these days. They could put the shell up in 2-3 days. The hardest part is getting the shell up and concrete is a challenge as well. I would certainly recommend you consider radiant floor heat. The only drawback is no air conditioning. I don't know what concrete is there currently. I just had 130 yards poured for my driveway. It was $130 a yard. Definitely check around on other options. Both Morton and Cleary are post frame companies that have been in business a long time and have crews to erect as well.

I'm outside of Wentzville and in a small HOA with each house having at least three acres. I've talked to the architect committee and they only care that it matches the aesthetics of the house. I haven't looked at post frame buildings and really don't know much about them. Having just moved here I have a long list of "projects" for the house not to mention the day job. It's enough to keep me busy until next spring. That along with having enough attached garage space to squeeze most of my stuff into has made me decide to wait until the spring. I'll definitely look into other structures. I didn't know about the Amish builders. Looks like I need to do some more research.

[John Lifer]

Everything is 20 to 200% more than 3 years ago. I just had my roof and gutters replaced with insurance paying for it on my house and detached 20x24 shop. $38,000. I about fell out of my chair. I expected $20 to 25k but wasn't even close. And simple roof on 1680sf house and 20x20 attached garage. About 75 square total. Just wow. The cheap Roush homes around here were being sold for $750 a month and are now $1200 minimum. (advertised pricing) these are roughly 1400 to 1500 sft stick built and sold with the company's financing.

[Ronald Blue]

I'm outside of Wentzville and in a small HOA with each house having at least three acres. I've talked to the architect committee and they only care that it matches the aesthetics of the house. I haven't looked at post frame buildings and really don't know much about them. Having just moved here I have a long list of "projects" for the house not to mention the day job. It's enough to keep me busy until next spring. That along with having enough attached garage space to squeeze most of my stuff into has made me decide to wait until the spring. I'll definitely look into other structures. I didn't know about the Amish builders. Looks like I need to do some more research. A

From my working days I have some contacts in the Bowling Green to Troy area. I will try to inquire of them if they are aware of any Amish crews in the area. A post frame can be made to look like any other construction on the outside. Look around your area and see what others that might have for detached buildings. Post frame construction typically has a metal exterior but there are many colors available and sometimes people do brick facades on them as well. Some examples on this link.

https://mortonbuildings.com/projects/residential

[Dick Strauss]

Have you tried the hanging tennis ball and a dot on the inside of the windshield? If this still leaves the car on a diagonal, add another tennis ball above a rear side door that rarely gets used.