Times article on Imperial/Metric and the UK

[Jack Frederick]

Say what you will on preference one to the other, but I’ve always felt that one thing Jimmy Carter got right was his push to get the USA onto the metric system. Of course that helped bury him, but it seems in a small world it would be best to do weights and measures the way the world does it. Interesting article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/03/opinion/metric-system-path-dependence.html

[Doug Garson]

The article you linked is behind a paywall, can you summarise the main points?

[Jim Koepke]

The article you linked is behind a paywall, can you summarise the main points?

It is an article philosophizing on why we still use imperial measurements in the U.S. and how Boris Johnson wants to take Britton back to the imperial system.

There is a lot of costs involved in changing to metric. There is also the question of if it is worth changing.

Some industries are sort of changing. Many soft drinks come in metric packaging along with the imperial sized packages next to them on the shelves.

Hamburgers are likely to be sold as "quarter pounders" for a long time to come. One franchise tried to sell a third pounder but market research indicated many people thought a third pound was smaller than a quarter pound. (gotta give the fools what they want)

A "quarter pounder" sure resonates in the mind better than a hundred grammer or an eighth of a kilo burger. (even though an eighth of a kilo is bigger than a quarter pounder)

What I do not like is "a pint" of beer or ice cream has often been reduced to 14oz.

jtk

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Jimmy Carter is a man with true integrity. He was and is unliked by many. Not by me. I have read his books, I have volunteered and donate a lot to Habitat For Humanity. He is the most successful Ex-President ever. I also like Metric. I do not use it for woodworking.

P.S. Mr. Carter aint buried yet

[Kev Williams]

I've always been amused at how close some of the basic in/mm measurements end up, like, 100mm is 'about 4", a liter is 'about a quart', a meter is 'about a yard'... but the two things the metric system DOESN'T have an 'about' of, is feet and inches. Ok, so 25mm is 'about an inch', and 300mm is 'about a foot', but like most Americans (I'm assuming)', while I can visualize in my head or with 'air fingers' pretty closely what 3", or 9", or 16", or 2' or 4' kinda looks like, for the life of me I can't figure how to space my air fingers for 75mm or 850cm or 1.2 meters...
;)

I AM getting good at times-ing or dividing by 25.4 to translate the difference, but without a calculator I'm lost!

[Thomas McCurnin]

I don't get too wrapped up about the subject. Ultimately, ease of use and familiarity and logic will govern usage.

For example, many cultures used 100 units to divide a circle. Makes sense doesn't it? The Mesopotamians used units of 20 and hence it translated to 360 degrees for a circle. Want to go forward to a metric 100 unit system? Of course not, its what we are familiar with and it works.

Feet originated with the Celts, and it is easily visualized, as we know how long a foot is more or less. An inch was the width of a man's thumb. Gallons also originated in the UK.

As for metrics, I can now visualize a liter, as most soft drinks are sold by the liter. I know of no bar that serves 500ml glasses of beer, its usually a pint. I'm OK with staying with that, because that is how its been for a thousand years.

Miles originated with the Romans (thousand paces) and again, I am OK with that, I know what a mile is and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK miles and kms are used interchangeably. Why is that? Obviously people know what a mile is and are comfortable using it.

Bottom Line: Don't force metrics on me, as there are historical reasons for 360 degrees, miles, and inches. If you want to use 100 degrees, then go for it. The Persians weren't logical I guess.

[Brian Deakin]

I live in the Uk and my view to the statement

I know what a mile is and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK miles and kms are used interchangeably

The only area where I have used kilometer was when studying A level physics 40 years ago and the metric system is used to for all scientific calculations

[Brian Deakin]

I live in the Uk and many people hold the view that Boris Johnson is an embarrassment Boris's call to bring back the imperial system is simply a distraction
The statement
Many soft drinks come in metric packaging along with the imperial sized packages next to them on the shelves.
is incorrect for the Uk Soft drink manufacturers sell as in the USA a range of sizes for some products but do not sell metric sizes next to imperial sizes and sizes tend to be exclusively metric

You are correct in stating Hamburgers are sold at McDonalds as quarter pounders and if you go into a restaurant steaks are listed as
6 ounce 8 ounce and 12 ounce simply because these are weights people can visualize

A pint of beer has not been reduced to 14 ounces in the Uk

it is a legal requirement that

https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/weights-and-measures/the-sale-of-alcohol-in-licensed-premises
Beer, lager and cider

Draught sales of beer, lager and cider must be made in one of these quantities:


1⁄3 pint
1⁄2 pint
2⁄3 pint
multiples of 1⁄2 pint

Alcohol sold in shops and bottled alcohol sold in pubs is sold in a range of metric sizes the commonest being 330 ml and 500 ml

So to summarize
Draught beer sold in pubs must be sold in pints or parts there of and the only sizes commonly used are 1 pint or 1/2 pint and alcohol sold in shops and bottles in pubs are almost exclusively sold in a range of metric sizes

An anomality is milk is usually sold in pints in the UK( 1 ,2 ,4 and 6 pint) with the metric volume also stated on the packaging Again simply because people can visualize a pint

Some retailers do sell milk in litres but my view is it is done for commercial gain to make it more difficult for consumers to make price comparisons

[Curt Harms]

I've always been amused at how close some of the basic in/mm measurements end up, like, 100mm is 'about 4", a liter is 'about a quart', a meter is 'about a yard'... but the two things the metric system DOESN'T have an 'about' of, is feet and inches. Ok, so 25mm is 'about an inch', and 300mm is 'about a foot', but like most Americans (I'm assuming)', while I can visualize in my head or with 'air fingers' pretty closely what 3", or 9", or 16", or 2' or 4' kinda looks like, for the life of me I can't figure how to space my air fingers for 75mm or 850cm or 1.2 meters...
;)

I AM getting good at times-ing or dividing by 25.4 to translate the difference, but without a calculator I'm lost!

Yup. Familiarity is 99% of it. I did some work on my Ford Ranger yesterday (and I can feel it today:o). The lug nuts are 3/4", all the other fasteners I encountered are metric. What can be a bother is mixing inch and metric fasteners. Everybody's got bolt and nut cans, right? I can't tell just by looking which are 1/4" and which are 6 mm or which are 5/16" and which are 8 mm. I guess I need 4 cans.

[Lee DeRaud]

I also like Metric. I do not use it for woodworking.
Yup. As an engineer, I like metric. As a woodworker, eh, not so much: the brain and eyes work better with binary fractions than decimal.

(I once had a 'discussion' with a gentleman who persistently and loudly proclaimed that the metric system was inherently better because, and I quote, "Decimal is how computers work." The assembled multitude was so stunned that it took a full ten seconds for the laughter to start.)

[Brian Holcombe]

I like metric for machinery but dislike it strongly for building anything around human proportion.

[Lee DeRaud]

Yup. Familiarity is 99% of it. I did some work on my Ford Ranger yesterday (and I can feel it today:o). The lug nuts are 3/4", all the other fasteners I encountered are metric. What can be a bother is mixing inch and metric fasteners. Everybody's got bolt and nut cans, right? I can't tell just by looking which are 1/4" and which are 6 mm or which are 5/16" and which are 8 mm. I guess I need 4 cans.
I have no issue with metric fasteners...until I need to buy some. Every metric widget costs almost exactly twice the price of the "normal" equivalent.

My approach to mixed use is that any unidentified random nut/bolt/screw gets tossed into a common bin until I have a boring game/race/whatever on TV and can sit down with the full set of thread gauges to sort them.

[Frederick Skelly]

Familiarity is 99% of it.

I agree. I prefer english units for woodworking, but that's mostly because it's what I'm used to. (Hard for me to visualize height/width in centimeters, but only because I haven't made the effort to get used to it.)

[Jim Koepke]

Yup. Familiarity is 99% of it. I did some work on my Ford Ranger yesterday (and I can feel it today:o). The lug nuts are 3/4", all the other fasteners I encountered are metric. What can be a bother is mixing inch and metric fasteners. Everybody's got bolt and nut cans, right? I can't tell just by looking which are 1/4" and which are 6 mm or which are 5/16" and which are 8 mm. I guess I need 4 cans.

Your lug nuts are likely also metric, 3/4" is 19.0500 mm. Not sure if the threads are the same.

5/15" is almost the same size as 8 mm. With wrenches the are interchangeable.

Pretty much interchangeable sizes for wrenches:

5/64" = 2 mm
5/32" = 4 mm
5/16" = 8 mm
5/8" = 16 mm
1-1/4" = 32mm (5/4") Back in the old days this was the size of the castle nuts holding on the brake drum for a VW bus.

jtk

[Maurice Mcmurry]

My biggest confusion so far was trying to figure out how fast to drive and how long it was going to take to get from Buffalo to Toronto.

[Tim Janssen]

I was born in the Netherlands and grew up of course with the metric system. In 1953 ( I was 23 years old) just married, we emigrated to Canada and of course had to adapt to the imperial system. Then in 1970 Canada started the conversion over several years to the metric system. In spite of having grown up with metric, I am still more comfotable using the imperial system. Maybe as you grow older your brain is not as adaptable. Still work in my shop with inches and feet.
Cheers,

Tim

[Lee DeRaud]

My biggest confusion so far was trying to figure out how fast to drive and how long it was going to take to get from Buffalo to Toronto.
Speed limit 100..."Ok, if you insist!" :)

[Curt Harms]

I was born in the Netherlands and grew up of course with the metric system. In 1953 ( I was 23 years old) just married, we emigrated to Canada and of course had to adapt to the imperial system. Then in 1970 Canada started the conversion over several years to the metric system. In spite of having grown up with metric, I am still more comfotable using the imperial system. Maybe as you grow older your brain is not as adaptable. Still work in my shop with inches and feet.
Cheers,

Tim

No 'maybe' about it, or maybe there's just way more clutter to sort thru than there was 30 years ago.

[Rod Sheridan]

That’s simply because you haven’t tried.

You had no idea what 4” looked liked until you taught yourself…..Rod

[William Fretwell]

Just directed 5 guys laying 102’ of 2” water main, 10’ to 14’ under water. As the tape measure went missing my weighted rope soundings were measured with my large feet, as was the pipe. As none of my body bits match 1 meter I used the imperial foot system, guess it will be around for a while.
Are light years metric or imperial? I’m thinking science running out of zeros went imperial!

[Dwayne Watt]

When I was a kid, there was a minor "push" for the US to convert to metric. It was effectively killed by politicians doing things like insisting it would kill manufacturing due to retooling costs for packaging regardless of the fact tooling gets rebuilt constantly for multitudes of reasoning. In addition highway signs would have to be replaced (they are anyway). It was also discouraged by concepts like "just remember that there are 1.609 kilometers per mile and 2.47 hectares per acre and 1 sq meter per 10.7639 sq ft". People had no idea how that would work in their lives. Add to that irrelevant confusion about millimeters, centimeters, decimeters, meters, decameters, hectameters, and kilometers. It was easy to see how Americans snubbed the metric system in lengths alone. In the real world mm, m, and km are all that matter.
Any global company converted to metric manufacturing decades ago for the most part. Why metric fasteners still cost more at retail in the US still baffles me. They are the same price or less in the manufacturing world.
In fairness, I work with imperial measurements in my workshop simply because that is the dimensions of my tooling. I used metric for the bulk of my professional career. Once you get a sense for whatever a value means to you it works for you.

[Mel Fulks]

Say what you will on preference one to the other, but I’ve always felt that one thing Jimmy Carter got right was his push to get the USA onto the metric system. Of course that helped bury him, but it seems in a small world it would be best to do weights and measures the way the world does it.

I do remember hearing him say that that USA had led for a long time and it was time for us to step back and let others lead.
Not the most bold USA initiative ….but certainly novel ,easy ,and humble. How many here still have their “ participation certificates “?

[Ole Anderson]

Millions, probably billions of land records in the US are other than metric. Imagine a surveyor having to convert back and forth if new subdivisions and roads and about everything a civil engineer designs were suddenly required to be metric. MDOT for a time (here in Michigan) required all new road and bridge plans to be in metric. That didn't last long. Funny watching Canadian home improvement shows how they mix up their dimensions. Sort of like US automakers.

[Brian Elfert]

I assume metric fasteners cost more at retail simply due to reduced demand compared to SAE fasteners. I suspect most buyers of fasteners are like me and will choose SAE unless they have a specific need for a metric fastener. I have four drawers full of SAE fasteners at home to reduce the need for hardware store visits. I don't have any metric fasteners.

[Jim Becker]

There will always be "reasons" folks have for converting or not converting. But even in the US, behind the scenes, a huge percentage of industry works under metric. It's a global marketplace, too. So in reality, the US works under both systems and that's likely going to continue for now. Think about that the next time you buy a 2 liter bottle of your favorite sugary or diet carbonated beverage... :)

There's an interesting podcast and transcription of the same on CNN.com right now about "why the US will never go metric" for those interested in reading more. There's some good history in the story and reasons around how things have gone over time.

[Chris Parks]

There will always be "reasons" folks have for converting or not converting. But even in the US, behind the scenes, a huge percentage of industry works under metric. It's a global marketplace, too. So in reality, the US works under both systems and that's likely going to continue for now. Think about that the next time you buy a 2 liter bottle of your favorite sugary or diet carbonated beverage... :)

There's an interesting podcast and transcription of the same on CNN.com right now about "why the US will never go metric" for those interested in reading more. There's some good history in the story and reasons around how things have gone over time.

I can remember reading an article many decades ago in which the US automotive industry told the government that if the US did not change to metric they were going to do it anyway and they did. Because of the opposition to complete change it seems that a slow assimilation will take place over a long period of for measure/weight but changing stuff likes miles/MPG could be a step too far as in the UK. In Oz the government simply removed all the mile markers and replaced them with kilometre versions and the job was done.

[Dave Zellers]

I don't see any reason why they won't both co-exist effortlessly for long into the future if not forever. We know the conversion calcs and we have handheld devices to do the math- even by voice command. I don't see Metric replacing Imperial, I see the two of them learning to get along. It will keep life interesting.

But manufacturing has mostly already, and should continue to adopt Metric. But I like fractions of an inch. There is nothing like that in Metric. Fractions make perfect sense. I/2 of something, 1/4 of something, etc. Maybe after I'm gone, people will say "You're off by 3 1/2 millimeters.

Perhaps they already do.

[Curt Harms]

I don't see any reason why they won't both co-exist effortlessly for long into the future if not forever. We know the conversion calcs and we have handheld devices to do the math- even by voice command. I don't see Metric replacing Imperial, I see the two of them learning to get along. It will keep life interesting.

But manufacturing has mostly already, and should continue to adopt Metric. But I like fractions of an inch. There is nothing like that in Metric. Fractions make perfect sense. I/2 of something, 1/4 of something, etc. Maybe after I'm gone, people will say "You're off by 3 1/2 millimeters.

Perhaps they already do.

I think they'd be likely to say "You're off by 3.5 millimeters":)

[Dave Zellers]

Ha ha! Yes!

[Maurice Mcmurry]

The one half, one quarter... way of thinking is how my Dad operates he can add up fractions in his head in a manner which I just can not achieve. I find myself folding the tape over on its self and counting up fractions to get the sum. When I use 1/32, 1/64 and 1/100 rulers I forget about the fractions and just count the total units. It feels very much like millimeters. I can function without glasses down to 1/16. For millimeters I need glasses.

[Jim Koepke]

2.47 hectares per acre

It's the other way around:

480908

A lot of my shop work uses a story stick instead of measurements.

Most of my measuring devices are in imperial not metric.

Here we layout studs on 16" centers. What are they in metric? Framing hammers usually measure 16" from the head to the end of the handle. Smaller hammers are often one foot. Things like this make it easier for people to do their work.

Metric might be used world wide but there are too many things in my life that are still measured with imperial standards.

One funny thing is some inexpensive (assembly required) items from overseas often have SAE fasteners. Likely spec'ed that way for the U.S. market.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

Metric is for saps. Decimal inch rules. RPN calculators are the best too.

[Jim Becker]

Interestingly, when I started a little project today, I initially pulled out the inches tape to get a general size for a work surface that was part of the project since it was "for the house" and a built-in thing. That was the only time I looked at inches all day as millimeters was easier to see and work with as I was slicing and dicing, both with various saws and with my CNC. That wouldn't have happened three years ago. The only reason I still tend to do "construction" type things in inches/feet is simply because of materials and conventions. Fractions just don't float my boat...

[Jim Barkelew]

With a calculator the units are irrelevant. I worked in CAD/CAM/CNC shops for 40 year and always used decimal inches. Also used metric cutters mixed in with inch cutters no problem. The software code was written in metric with a switch for inch user interface.

I think the argument over units is meaningless since we all have computers in our pockets. Not sure what units story sticks use.

Jim

[Harold Patterson]

I find it easy to think inches and feet for woodworking but I find fractions a pain hence decimals inches for me.

[Curt Harms]

It's the other way around:

480908

....................
One funny thing is some inexpensive (assembly required) items from overseas often have SAE fasteners. Likely spec'ed that way for the U.S. market.

jtk
A number of years ago Grizzly fasteners had metric threads but SAE sized (or so it seemed) heads. I guess the thinking was that most purchasers wouldn't have metric tools. I haven't bought any Grizzly machines in a long time so don't know if that is still true.

[Jim Koepke]

A number of years ago Grizzly fasteners had metric threads but SAE sized (or so it seemed) heads. I guess the thinking was that most purchasers wouldn't have metric tools. I haven't bought any Grizzly machines in a long time so don't know if that is still true.

Many of the more common sizes of bolt heads have close equivalents in the SAE and metric world. The most frustrating exceptions are 3/8" & 10mm. Both sizes are common.

A mechanic friend told me a long time ago if a complete metric tools set was purchased there were about four SAE sizes that would be needed to have a complete set of tools for both. If a full set of SAE tools were purchased there would be seven wrenches needed to complete a set to use for both systems.

jtk

Just for the heck of it here is an equivalent chart of mine made up in the past:


Metric to SAE wrench sizes. 6.5mm is common in many wrench sets. A t next to the wrench size indicates this wrench will be tight on its equivalent size nut, i.e. a 14mm wrench is snug on a 9/16 nut.

Millimeters Inch
6 ------- N/A
6.5 ------- 1/4t
7 ------- N/A
8 ------- 5/16
9 ------- 11/32t
10 ------- N/A
11t ------- 7/16
12 ------- N/A
13 ------- 1/2t
14t ------- 9/16
15 ------- 19/32 (not common)
16 ------- 5/8
17 ------- N/A
18 ------- N/A
19 ------- 3/4 (This is such a perfect match, it is used internationally for automobile wheel nuts)
20 ------- N/A
21 ------- N/A
22t ------- 7/8

32 ------- 1-1/4 If memory serves me well, this is the size of the hub nut on the rear axle of Volks Wagons before '68 or so.

That has 7 metric sizes throughout the range not covered by an SAE wrench set.
3/16 would be tight on a 5mm, neither size is included with most sets.
Three common SAE sizes, 3/8, 11/16 and 15/16 are not covered by the metric sizes.

[Roger Feeley]

I’m on team metric. I wish we would just rip off the band aide and get it over with. I know it would mean adjustment and confusion for old codgers like me but my grandsons would be the beneficiaries.

[Dave Zellers]

I know it would mean adjustment and confusion for old codgers like me but my grandsons would be the beneficiaries.

Personally I think your Grandsons would benefit most from learning both because fractions are a huge part of Imperial and fractions extend far out beyond measuring length.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Many of the more common sizes of bolt heads have close equivalents in the SAE and metric world. The most frustrating exceptions are 3/8" & 10mm. Both sizes are common.

A mechanic friend told me a long time ago if a complete metric tools set was purchased there were about four SAE sizes that would be needed to have a complete set of tools for both. If a full set of SAE tools were purchased there would be seven wrenches needed to complete a set to use for both systems.

jtk

Just for the heck of it here is an equivalent chart of mine made up in the past:


Metric to SAE wrench sizes. 6.5mm is common in many wrench sets. A t next to the wrench size indicates this wrench will be tight on its equivalent size nut, i.e. a 14mm wrench is snug on a 9/16 nut.

Millimeters Inch
6 ------- N/A
6.5 ------- 1/4t
7 ------- N/A
8 ------- 5/16
9 ------- 11/32t
10 ------- N/A
11t ------- 7/16
12 ------- N/A
13 ------- 1/2t
14t ------- 9/16
15 ------- 19/32 (not common)
16 ------- 5/8
17 ------- N/A
18 ------- N/A
19 ------- 3/4 (This is such a perfect match, it is used internationally for automobile wheel nuts)
20 ------- N/A
21 ------- N/A
22t ------- 7/8

32 ------- 1-1/4 If memory serves me well, this is the size of the hub nut on the rear axle of Volks Wagons before '68 or so.

That has 7 metric sizes throughout the range not covered by an SAE wrench set.
3/16 would be tight on a 5mm, neither size is included with most sets.
Three common SAE sizes, 3/8, 11/16 and 15/16 are not covered by the metric sizes.

Thats a great list! I have found a lot of variance in 9/16 nuts, bolts and fittings. Sometimes the 14mm works, a tight fit, sometimes 15mm fits better.

[Jim Becker]

Personally I think your Grandsons would benefit most from learning both because fractions are a huge part of Imperial and fractions extend far out beyond measuring length.
Learning fractions is an important part of math curriculum. It just so happens it also applies to measuring systems. ;)

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I do not know how public school let me graduate high school with so little Math. Regrettably, my last math class was 1/2 semester of fundamentals of Algebra in the 9th grade. I think I got a D.

[Jim Becker]

I do not know how public school let me graduate high school with so little Math. Regrettably, my last math class was 1/2 semester of fundamentals of Algebra in the 9th grade. I think I got a D.
My school district's program took me all the way through calculus in HS, not that I actually understood the calculus. I didn't understand it in university, either, and barely squeaked by as it was required for my business degree. I just didn't make sense to me. Algebra, Trig, Geometry...no issues. But I still didn't like the math around fractions even back then! LOL

[Jim Koepke]

I do not know how public school let me graduate high school with so little Math. Regrettably, my last math class was 1/2 semester of fundamentals of Algebra in the 9th grade. I think I got a D.

During my days at public school, we chose our own classes up to a point. Some chose more history/civics related classes some more towards writing and literature. Those who liked math or the sciences went off on those paths.

If the school counselors chose your courses they may have seen you as not being one to put on the math track.

jtk

[andrew whicker]

if ever got into wrenching on cars you memorize a lot of the conversions since cars are half and half.

Plus 350 cubic inch motor is 5.7 liters.

1.8 liters per flush / 0.5 gallons per flush on every urinal in America that I've seen.


350 ml per 12 fl ounces on every can of drink


It's all out there.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

During my days at public school, we chose our own classes up to a point. Some chose more history/civics related classes some more towards writing and literature. Those who liked math or the sciences went off on those paths.

If the school counselors chose your courses they may have seen you as not being one to put on the math track.

jtk

We had core requirements as well as electives. My core really needed more math. I picked up some math and geometry by osmosis through my electives, Shop, Agriculture, Drafting, Electronics... Math slipped through the cracks for me partly because I did 9th and 10th in a big school with over 1000 kids in my grade then moved to country school with 29 in my class for 11th and 12th. Or I could blame Jimmy Carter he was president all 4 years.

[Curt Harms]

Learning fractions is an important part of math curriculum. It just so happens it also applies to measuring systems. ;)

Are fractions still a core part of K-12 math curriculum? I know no one with students in that age group.

[Jim Becker]

Are fractions still a core part of K-12 math curriculum? I know no one with students in that age group.
They were for our kids in CBSD. Of course, the "how" they manipulated them was very foreign because of the "math system" being used for Common Core. It was bizarre!! Helping with math homework was a thankless task because of the methodologies...

[Curt Harms]

Metric is for saps. Decimal inch rules. RPN calculators are the best too.

It seems that aeronautical engineers agree. All dimensions I'm aware of are decimal inches - well, except fasteners. Those have their own conventions with their roots pre WWII that make hardwood measures look positively simple. Here's a brief example:

AN4-4A

AN means the bolt is manufactured according to Air Force-Navy specs.
4 identifies the diameter of the bolt shank in 1/16" increments
4 identifies the length of the shank in 1/8" increments
A means the shank of the bolt is undrilled (no letter here means a drilled shank)

[Maurice Mcmurry]

My son often talks JIS. Japanese Industrial Standard. It has been helpful to learn a bit about JIS for bikes, motorcycles and cars, screwdrivers too.

[Rob Luter]

Learning fractions is an important part of math curriculum. It just so happens it also applies to measuring systems. ;)

Yes it does. When I was a pup I wasn't real great at math, especially fractions. As I advanced in my education towards becoming an Engineer, I had to learn decimal equivalents, and over the years have committed them to memory. Fractions are simple now. I just convert everything to decimal equivalents in my head.

[Rod Sheridan]

I've always been amused at how close some of the basic in/mm measurements end up, like, 100mm is 'about 4", a liter is 'about a quart', a meter is 'about a yard'... but the two things the metric system DOESN'T have an 'about' of, is feet and inches. Ok, so 25mm is 'about an inch', and 300mm is 'about a foot', but like most Americans (I'm assuming)', while I can visualize in my head or with 'air fingers' pretty closely what 3", or 9", or 16", or 2' or 4' kinda looks like, for the life of me I can't figure how to space my air fingers for 75mm or 850cm or 1.2 meters...
;)

I AM getting good at times-ing or dividing by 25.4 to translate the difference, but without a calculator I'm lost!

The metric system does have metres, centimetres and millimeters.

The trick is to start using it, and use metric design methods. If a 2” wide leg is pleasant to look at, so is a 50mm leg.

Use 20mm thicknesses, or 35, 40, 50 etc.

If I put an object in your hand you wouldn’t be able tell me whether it was 4 ounces or 100 grams, because our brains and body simply don’t work that well for those differentiations.

Just start using the metric system system and you’ll become just as competent as you are in the Imperial system……Regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Haha, agree about RPN calculators, still using my HP11C.

I’m writing this on an iPad, which has an HP15 emulator on it, I simply cannot use an algebraic calculator.

On the metric/Imperial part, I think you have it backwards😀

Regards, Rod

[Jim Becker]

Just start using the metric system system and you’ll become just as competent as you are in the Imperial system……Regards, Rod.

I agree with this as it's exactly what I did. It really doesn't matter what system I use in the moment as long as it's consistent for the project, but more and more I find metric easier, faster and more natural "for me".

[Jim Koepke]

In many ways the metric system is much easier. Especially things like a cubic centimeter of water is one milliliter and at 3.98ºC weighs about one gram.

Though in my world all of my drill bits and other boring equipment is in imperial sizes except for one 10mm bit. Metric bit sets are not yet common in the U.S. Every once in a while my random searching of auger bits look for metric bits and hasn't found them. They are likely common in Europe and other parts of the world.

Dowels from the various vendors are also still in inch sizes.

jtk

[Michael Schuch]

Are light years metric or imperial? I’m thinking science running out of zeros went imperial!

A light year is neither metric nor imperial. A light year is simply how far light will travel in 365.25 Earth days.

Just like Mach 1 is neither metric nor imperial. It is simply how fast sound travels under a certain set of circumstances.

I have way too many old woodworking machines with imperial scales etched into them to really want to switch my woodworking habits to metric. BUT if we can throw out the King's measurement system and switch to all metric I will adapt. The Imperial measurement system is just one very long lived legacy of English imperial tyranny! 481201




Manufactures seem more concerned about fooling consumers into not noticing that they are continually getting less product which is made to look like more product. The twisted, contorted shapes that bars of soap come in is a perfect example! I think manufactures will embrace which ever measurement system that will make it easier to fool the customer... which I believe is imperial measurements.

P.S. Maybe the 1/3 pound burger should have been advertised as the 3/9th pounder???

[Curt Harms]

A light year is neither metric nor imperial. A light year is simply how far light will travel in 365.25 Earth days.

Just like Mach 1 is neither metric nor imperial. It is simply how fast sound travels under a certain set of circumstances.



But are they measured in meters/second, kilometers/hour or miles/hour? :). The distance is the distance, the rate is the rate, it's just a matter of how we measure it.

[Martin Spence]

I grew up in the UK and with Metric. Moved to the USA over 30 years ago. When I first moved I thought in metric and converted to imperial in my head. Over the last 30 years I transitioned to thinking in imperial and converting to metric if I had to. Not quite sure when that transition happened - but I am now much more comfortable in imperial.

A note to a comment upstream about pints and beer. I have a friend who used to say "a pint's a pound the world around." It's a nice memory aid - but unfortunately not true. A US pint is 16oz, but an imperial pint is 20oz. So the UK, Australia etc. are 20oz pints. Which also means that there are about 5 liters in a UK gallon verses about 4 liters in a US gallon. Just more for the confusion in conversions between measurement systems.

[Chris Parks]

I grew up in the UK and with Metric. Moved to the USA over 30 years ago. When I first moved I thought in metric and converted to imperial in my head. Over the last 30 years I transitioned to thinking in imperial and converting to metric if I had to. Not quite sure when that transition happened - but I am now much more comfortable in imperial.

A note to a comment upstream about pints and beer. I have a friend who used to say "a pint's a pound the world around." It's a nice memory aid - but unfortunately not true. A US pint is 16oz, but an imperial pint is 20oz. So the UK, Australia etc. are 20oz pints. Which also means that there are about 5 liters in a UK gallon verses about 4 liters in a US gallon. Just more for the confusion in conversions between measurement systems.

An interesting reversal on converting from one system to another. I doubt there is anyone in Oz who would even think about a pint and certainly it is not possible to order any fluid by the pint, even beer! I would say with some certainty that the vast majority would look at you with puzzlement if you even mentioned the word. You are right in saying that the slight differences across the Atlantic between the two different imperial systems further complicates things when it comes to conversion to metric. Why did the US decide it had to be different and invent a new imperial measuring system/standard?