SawStop Reliability

[Martin Penning]

I have a SawStop 3HP PCS on order. (It’s been on order for about 6 weeks.). I subscribe to a number of forums and have seen a lot of reports of problems. I know that people talk a lot more about the problems they’ve had and not nearly as much about the positive results. But, none the less, I’m growing concerned about so many reports of issues.

This saw replaces a General 350 saw that I bought new 25 years ago. That saw never failed in any way, but especially since I’m getting older I wanted the SawStop safety features for myself and my several grandsons as they learn.

So, based on all of the above and your experiences (and first hand knowledge), should I cancel the order?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have.

Martin

[Thomas Wilson]

I follow several forums also. I have a SawStop ICS that I bought to preserve my fingers. I also have a Delta Unisaw that is 35 years old in storage. The issues of reliability I have seen are false trips with no obvious cause. Cartridge cable has been blamed. The rev 3 cartridge has been blamed. False trips have been a huge, expensive headache for some users. For me, the saw just cuts wood without any drama. The Unisaw will go up for sale soon.

[Andrew More]

I've got one, with a Freud Glueline blade. I've started calling it the wood laser in mind, because it's so quiet and cuts so smoothly. No issues here, and it's saved my fingers once already.

[sean meltvedt]

Martin, I’ve had my PCS for over a decade now. No problems other than a fired brake or two. I recently picked up an ICS that had a roof collapse on it, the majority of the effort to get it back in service was cleaning the rust off the tables. The cabinet, trunnions, and main top was fine. The rails, and left extension was toast. So to answer your question- yes, they have been the most reliable machines in my shop.
cheers
Sean

[Ron Selzer]

I have a SawStop 5hp ICS, 36" fence, single phase in a home shop, no problems so far.
At the High School where I work, they bought a SawStop 5hp ICS, 52" fence, three phase. There have been trips and blades ruined, cannot figure out why except one time an outsider came in and touched side of blade to slow it down after turning saw off.
I definitely would not cancel the order. Cartridges and blades are cheap compared to cuts.
Ron

[Mike Henderson]

I've had a PCS for over 10 years and no problems. Had a brake trip twice when I was careless, but it saved my fingers. Cheap compared to the ER.

Mike

[Patrick Varley]

I bought a 5HP ICS (manufacture date 2006, as I recall) at auction about 4 years ago. Original property of a technical college, but seems like it sat in the corner of a warehouse getting rained on intermittently for a few years. Had to replace the switch box and cartridge cable (fairly painless) and cleanup the tables but it otherwise it fired right up and has given me no trouble since I've had it.

The most impressive thing to me was the tech support I got from SawStop. I called, and they re-registered the serial number to me. I asked them at various points for advice how to get it apart and back together when I was reconditioning it (and later moving it). And that was all without any warranty left.

I've seen the intermittent posts about things as well, and I suspect it would be frustrating. But the more technology you add, the more chance something goes wrong. However, with a saw under warranty, based on my experience, I'd have faith they'd make it right of something did happen.

[glenn bradley]

Just shy of a decade. No problems. Still smile every time I use it.

[Alan Lightstone]

On my second SawStop. 5HP ICS. Used to have Contractors saw but I upgraded.

Two trips. Both my fault. One while raising blade to make new zero clearance dado blade insert (that was an expensive mistake.)

Keep the order. I've seen countless missing digits from table saws in the OR. Money extremely well spent.

The build quality is fantastic, and when you get the saw and see how all the parts are packed and instructions, you will be taking pictures of that and showing them to friends. It's the most organized assembly process I've ever seen of any device. Truly amazing.

[Darrell Bade]

I've had an ICS for 14 years. Replaced the start stop control box when it was a few months old under warranty. No issues since then and have never set a brake off and it uses the old original CB brake cartridge. At the time I bought it the brake was not the driving factor, it just looked like a better made saw than the other big names, but then again very few saws back then even had a riving knife.

[Greg Parrish]

Alan, how did the zero clearance cut cause the brake to trip? Just curious as I have a fairly new PCS and haven't yet made my zero clearance cut for my dado set.




On my second SawStop. 5HP ICS. Used to have Contractors saw but I upgraded.

Two trips. Both my fault. One while raising blade to make new zero clearance dado blade insert (that was an expensive mistake.)

Keep the order. I've seen countless missing digits from table saws in the OR. Money extremely well spent.

The build quality is fantastic, and when you get the saw and see how all the parts are packed and instructions, you will be taking pictures of that and showing them to friends. It's the most organized assembly process I've ever seen of any device. Truly amazing.

[lou Brava]

If your going to let you Grandsons use the saw don't worry about reliability at ALL. Do not cancel the order. Get the SS.

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan, how did the zero clearance cut cause the brake to trip? Just curious as I have a fairly new PCS and haven't yet made my zero clearance cut for my dado set.

I think I just raised the blade too high and it somehow contacted, or thought it contacted metal. Kinda shook my head on that one, but when I replaced the dado set (sigh) and cartridge, all went well.

All in all, making a zero clearance insert is one of the more dangerous activities on a table saw, IMHO. Really have to make sure it doesn't lift up when lifting the blade. Not necessarily easy.

[Frank Pratt]

I've had a 3HP PCS for about 6 years. Tripped the brake once for absent mindedly cutting a board with graphite cloth glued to one side. Other than that, no issues at all. Every time I turn it on, it puts a smile on my face because it's such a pleasure to use. Then again, I have a smile when doing most anything in the shop. Dust collection is better than 100% for most cutting operations.

[James Cheever]

I've had my 5hp ICS for about 6 years now. Never had an issue. I love it.

[Jack Frederick]

I’ve been very pleased with the 3hp PCS I’ve had since ‘15. Cartridge trips have been on me. The saw has been reliable other than operator error and operator error is the best reason to have a SS. I would keep the order in place.

[Brian Tymchak]

We use 2 ICSs at the furniture bank I volunteer at. Those saws get used and abused every day all day by a variety of skill levels ( and appreciation for tools) and they just keep on cutting. I've experienced 2 brake misfires on one of the saws both while cross cutting 2x3 pine. Maybe that machine is a little more sensitive somehow? If you cut a lot of particle board (we cut melamine predominately) you need to need to be somewhat diligent about cleaning or replacing the belts on a regular basis as those hard chips can embed in the rubber and eventually lead to slipping when cold.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Just shy of a decade. No problems. Still smile every time I use it.

This.....
EVERY time I use the saw.
5 hp 52" ICS for over 10 years. Tripped my brake this year due to wet wood.... No other issues.

[Ray Newman]

Been a running a 52" SawStop ICS 3 HP in my hobby shop since 2016 and no problems. Great saw. Before the SawStop, I ran a Uni-saw for almost 30 years. Bought the SawStop after a near miss with the Uni-saw.

[Richard Coers]

I'm curious why you even consider cancelling the order when you will train you Grandsons on it? Their fingers aren't of the highest priority? Table saw accidents happen with a horrible frequency, whether you have 25 years experience, or 25 days. Make a major commitment to the fingers of all the users. I didn't have a table saw accident, but I have 9 3/4 fingers. It took 2 surgeries and $15,000 in 1985 to fix the middle finger on my left hand. A Sawstop is way cheaper!

[Rick Potter]

3 HP PCS, about four years. No trips, no problems. It is the only saw I let 'guests' use.

EDIT: Wow, I just looked, and I have had it since 2013....9 years. Time flies when you aren't looking.

[mreza Salav]

Have had my ICS since 2009. Excellent saw, a few trips, all my fault. Excellent customer service hands down.

[Roger Feeley]

ICS for ten years. Four trips, all my fault and all different mistakes.

[Patrick Kane]

I dont own a sawstop, and i generally think any saw under 1000lbs with a 10" blade capacity is beneath me; however, i have to agree with the grandson comments above. That is the #1 and only reason i would ever purchase a sawstop. My child is 4 months old, but i dont think i would trust anyone under 18 years old around most woodworking machines. The guilt associated with them screwing up and hurting themselves would be worth 50 sawstops to avoid. I would stay the course.

[Rod Sheridan]

Stick with it Martin, a SawStop would be my second choice for a saw.

I had a General 650 saw previously, regards Rod

[Bert McMahan]

My local Woodcraft uses a Sawstop for all of their classes. I know they probably maintain it pretty well but every time I've used it in a class it's been great, and it's being used by newbies almost constantly. No noticeable wear and tear on it at all, and they've had it for years now. I've never asked about reliability but haven't ever seen the cartridge fire unnecessarily (granted, I've only taken a handful of classes there).

[Bryan Hall]

It really comes down to do you want that saw or not.

When I got my ICS it was my 3rd table saw and I didn't think it was anything special other than I loved the table size. Mine was plagued by problems and the customer service was a disaster. I ended up having to force the saws return via credit card company charge back. There's a big thread on here about it.

After it was gone I rolled the dice and bought a slider having never used or even seen one. Instantly I fell in love and realized that no matter how safe the sawstop tech was, I was simply safer off to the side where my hands never go near the blade, I can't be hit by kickback, and I don't have any lost dust collection blowing up on me.

No matter what saw and/or reputation you think you're buying into I think we are in a time where you need to expect it to have snags, you need to expect to have to due some tune-ups, you need to expect to deal with CS. Pick a vendor you like (I try to buy everything through home depot now) and just be ready to roll with the punches when the time comes as long as you are getting the saw that you truly want.

[John Kananis]

I think I just raised the blade too high and it somehow contacted, or thought it contacted metal. Kinda shook my head on that one, but when I replaced the dado set (sigh) and cartridge, all went well.

All in all, making a zero clearance insert is one of the more dangerous activities on a table saw, IMHO. Really have to make sure it doesn't lift up when lifting the blade. Not necessarily easy.

Alan, use a small nail into the front of the insert so that the nail sits just under the table when fully seated. It'll hold the insert down while you raise the blade.

[Frank Pratt]

All in all, making a zero clearance insert is one of the more dangerous activities on a table saw, IMHO. Really have to make sure it doesn't lift up when lifting the blade. Not necessarily easy.
I move the fence over top on one side and hold the other down solidly with a push stick. Makes a scary task drama free.

[Jim Becker]

I have a PCS in my temporary shop and I am not the first owner. It runs like a top and is an excellent tool in design and manufacture. While I GREATLY prefer a slider and will get back to one once my shop building is up, I can't say anything is lacking on the SS that I wouldn't complain about with any other cabinet saw. :)

[Jason White]

Have had my PCS for two years. Zero problems.

[Martin Penning]

Thanks everyone for all of your thoughts/comments. I am going to keep the order. I am definitely very safety conscious not just for me, but even more so for the grandsons (as several referenced).

It seems that every time I turned around there were reports of SawStop malfunctions. I don’t recall hearing about any failures to trip, but many false trips and it made me worry that possible design changes or quality control issues were happening.

So, thanks again to everyone for your help!

Martin

[Larry Frank]

One needs to define false trips. In the almost 10 years that I have had my Sawstop, I have had two trips. Both due to my stupidity. I adjusted my Incra miter gauge for a cut and it contacted the blade.....WHAM. A lot of people have had this happen but not a false trip.

There are a few that are associated with bad cables or wiring. Sawstop has typically been quick to fix these and I call them false trips.

[Jim Dwight]

I think the decision is made but I will add my experience. I bought my SS in 2018, I think, in preparation for retirement. I had several other saws before it but the SS is better in every way - except the safety features are a little bit of a mixed blessing. Don't get me wrong, I want them, but having to switch cartridges to put on a dado stack make an already somewhat long process even longer. I rarely get flashing lights and a failure to start but it happened some initially. Never was anything really wrong but it wanted the gap adjusted or something. I've only triggered the brake once and it was with a 3/4 inch dado set in the saw. I was raising the blades through a Colliflower throat plate and nervous about the thin masonite center. So I put a scrap 2x3 over the throat plate. If I had clamped it, it would have been fine. If I had turned the saw off before lifting the 2x3 it probably would have been fine. But I was stupid and lifted the 2x3, it caught in the dado stack and I would have lost the end of at least the middle finger on my left hand without the brake. I had used a table saw for 50 years or so but you only have to get stupid or impatient once. I think the cartridge swap may have contributed to my usually impatience but I fully knew better than to do what I did.

I think the colliflower is a fine addition, by the way. I make my own inserts now out of plywood or hardwood and like them better than the masonite ones. I switched to doing dados with a router, however. I don't love their screaming but I don't do a lot of them, they are normally very shallow (more for locating the piece than adding glue area) and it is working fine for me.

[Myles Moran]

PCS for 2.5 years (I think? Gosh time flies) and run probably around 1k board feet through it. Zero issues, and honestly if it tripped tomorrow over nothing, I'd buy a new brake, send the blade to Forrest for repair, and continue using it afterwards. I've been through PT for a broken ankle and I have no intentions of doing it again, especially for a hand injury. If tomorrow a router table and/or a bandsaw with the same technology came out I would 100% be purchasing them that day.

[Rod Wolfy]

Had mine about 4 years. No trips. I feel much better about friends that are non-woodworkers using it. I've had a Jet 52", a Felder & a Bosch portable. I prefer the SS.

I'm not sure on their market share, but is guess that it's like ⅓ the current market of saws aquired.

I've only read a few actual mis-fires. One string was attributing it to poor quality plywood or particle board or of China. The theory was that there was some metal in the glue or something to make it conductive.

[Tim Janssen]

Bought my PCS 12 years ago. Still love it. Equiped it with a Grizzly slider 10 years ago.
Cheers,

Tim

[johnny means]

I was one of the early adapters, back when they only made one model. That saw has been in a commercial setting cutting wood since 2008 with zero issues. I've worked with many others since then and never seen one fail. The one in our shop now was flooded in 2 ft of water a couple of years ago and never skipped a beat.

[Randy Heinemann]

I own the Jobsite model because it's really useful to be able to fold it up and move it out of the way in my shop as I don't use it everyday anyway. As far as the brake and other problems. I have had no problems in the time I owned it and bought it just when it first came out; maybe 4-5 years ago. I did trip the brake but it was my fault; using an aluminum fence which I didn't set properly to clear the blade.

[Kris Cook]

I have a SawStop 3HP PCS on order. (It’s been on order for about 6 weeks.). I subscribe to a number of forums and have seen a lot of reports of problems. I know that people talk a lot more about the problems they’ve had and not nearly as much about the positive results. But, none the less, I’m growing concerned about so many reports of issues.

This saw replaces a General 350 saw that I bought new 25 years ago. That saw never failed in any way, but especially since I’m getting older I wanted the SawStop safety features for myself and my several grandsons as they learn. <br>

So, based on all of the above and your experiences (and first hand knowledge), should I cancel the order?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have.

Martin


Thanks everyone for all of your thoughts/comments. I am going to keep the order. I am definitely very safety conscious not just for me, but even more so for the grandsons (as several referenced).

It seems that every time I turned around there were reports of SawStop malfunctions. I don’t recall hearing about any failures to trip, but many false trips and it made me worry that possible design changes or quality control issues were happening.

So, thanks again to everyone for your help!

Martin

Martin - not for the reasons you originally considered but you might want to cancel the order depending on the wait time. When I replaced my saw last year I was going to get a Grizzly but they were backordered a few months out. Ironically, Grizzly had SawStops in stock and I bought one.

I just checked and THEY STILL DO.

[Brian Tymchak]

Martin - not for the reasons you originally considered but you might want to cancel the order depending on the wait time. When I replaced my saw last year I was going to get a Grizzly but they were backordered a few months out. Ironically, Grizzly had SawStops in stock and I bought one.

I just checked and THEY STILL DO.

Woodwerks here in Gahanna, OH also has SS in stock.

https://www.thisiswoodworking.com/

[Martin Penning]

Thanks again, everyone, for your comments.
Martin

[Mike Mason]

I made a dozen inserts all at once out of 1/2" baltic birch. I use the rip fence to hold the insert in place while raising the blade.

[Prashun Patel]

I owned a sawstop for several years. I tripped the blade 3 times because of contact with the aluminum miter fence I own. False trips or careless user trips are to be expected. It’s expensive because you have to replace a brake and a blade.

I also changed my way of working with respect to dados, which require their own brake. I just stopped using a dado blade.

I found the saw otherwise perfect. I was nervous at using such an electronics heavy tool, but it had never failed.

I have since sold that PCS and no longer use a table saw. It’s just too dusty and big a beast for me any more.

I will last say that for myself while blade contact can be more drastic an accident, kickback is a less intuitive and hence more likely accident in the case of a grandson… so caveat emptor.

[Patrick Varley]

I also changed my way of working with respect to dados, which require their own brake. I just stopped using a dado blade.

Same. I'm much more likely to just put a FTG blade on and make multiple passes unless I have to make a bunch of dados.

I've been tempted to get the Woodpecker Rip-Flip system to make that easier (among other reasons).

[Brian Tymchak]

I've been tempted to get the Woodpecker Rip-Flip system to make that easier (among other reasons).

Well look at that (https://www.woodpeck.com/rip-flip-fence.html)... Very interesting. Thanks for mentioning!

[Darrell Bade]

I put the Rip-Flip on mine last winter. It does make dadoes easier with a regular blade or a dado blade. It is something that Woodpeckers has that is not priced outrageous.

[Patrick Varley]

I put the Rip-Flip on mine last winter. It does make dadoes easier with a regular blade or a dado blade. It is something that Woodpeckers has that is not priced outrageous.

Indeed. When I first saw it I expected the price to be higher. But it's still probably pushing the max you could ask. Much more then you start thinking about an Incra Positioner, which is even more functional. I'd go that route except space/size wise it doesn't work for me.

[Mark Visconti]

I will last say that for myself while blade contact can be more drastic an accident, kickback is a less intuitive and hence more likely accident in the case of a grandson… so caveat emptor.

Yeah, although the riving knife, hold down and blade guard help (I would probably have a couple of holes in my shop or me from ripping construction lumber if not for these features).