6" Dust Collector Hose Need Installation Tips

[Doug Walls]

I'm setting up a new dust collector & I'm having trouble getting the 6" hose on some of the fittings!
The hose is Flexadux PV from Woodcraft & the ID. is a tad smaller than 6" & the fittings I'm trying to connect to are 6' OD.

Anyone have any tips to get this hose on the fittings?

Doug

[Kevin Jenness]

Heat gun. Don't burn your fingers.

A crimper can be handy as well.

[Thomas Wilson]

Dawn dish soap.

[Doug Walls]

Heat gun.
I thought about trying that, but I was afraid of melting it! I think the spring steel helix is the main issue.


A crimper can be handy as well.
I don't have one yet, but I do plan to pick one up eventually.

The main problem I'm having is with the top of the cyclone Seperator which has a 6" ID. so the OD. is a little over 6 inches.
I got the cyclone from a e-bay seller " Tian Studio" & it's made from 18ga. sheet metal, so crimping the outlet might be hard to do.

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The connection to the blower section is a ABS plastic fitting I got from Woodcraft, so I can always sand/grind that down a little if needed.

Doug

[Doug Walls]

Dawn dish soap.
Thanks I'll try the dish soap!

Doug

[Jonathan Jung]

Ideally you don't want flex hooking directly to the inlet, for better separation. Between the motor and the cyclone there should be some give, if you have the cyclone hard fastened to the wall, so use a hose there. For getting the hose to fit, you'll likely have to be creative with some sort of PVC adaptor or make a sleeve from rings of ply/mdf.

[Doug Walls]

Heat gun.
Heating the hose worked, but no heat gun was needed.
It went up to 91 degrees here in Southeast MI. the other day, after about an hour or so in the sun the hose was a lot easier to get on.

I just got the blower & cyclone connected the other day since they were the tightest pieces.
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Doug

[Bill Dufour]

Cherne plug.
Bill D

[Doug Walls]

Ideally you don't want flex hooking directly to the inlet, for better separation.
I'm planning on running 5" metal spiral pipe along the wall with a couple of 4" & 2-1/2" drops, there will be about a 30-degree bend in-between the cyclone inlet & the wall.
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Between the motor and the cyclone there should be some give, if you have the cyclone hard fastened to the wall, so use a hose there.
The blower & cyclone are both mounted to the wall separately & there's a little bit of an off-set in the alignment of the two, so that's another reason I wanted the flexible hose.
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Doug

[Marc Fenneuff]

It's tough to tell from your photos, but make sure your impeller is running in the same orientation as the cyclone. You will lose some efficiency if, for example the impeller is creating a clockwise airflow but the cyclone is designed for CCW flow.

[Doug Walls]

It's tough to tell from your photos, but make sure your impeller is running in the same orientation as the cyclone. You will lose some efficiency if, for example the impeller is creating a clockwise airflow but the cyclone is designed for CCW flow.


Yeah, your correct & I'm aware of that issue!
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However the only one's I have seen with a left-hand inlet are from a guy on e-bay & they seemed to be constructed out of normal HVAC sheet-metal. The "Tian Studio" cyclone I bought is made from 18ga. sheet metal & fully welded construction which should hold up a lot better.

From what I've read on the Bill Pentz web site it's more of a problem with the larger impellers & higher hp. units.
Bill explains that at the bottom of this page https://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/cyclone_plan.php

I also looked into the steel version of the Supper Dust Deputy & according to a e-mail I got back from Oneida, They stated that as long as there's about 1 foot of duct or hose in-between the blower & the cyclone the air flow is able to reverse without effecting the over all performance.

The cyclone I bought has a air ramp design with a center pipe that's about 18" long.
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That inner pipe & the hose on top will give the air about 30" to travel & change direction.

Doug

[Marc Fenneuff]

They stated that as long as there's about 1 foot of duct or hose in-between the blower & the cyclone the air flow is able to reverse without effecting the over all performance.

That is my understanding as well. Glad to see you've done your research.

I got my impeller and cyclone second-hand, and of course they were opposite, so I performed some major surgery by moving the motor to the other side of the impeller, and reversing the motor.

Carry on!

[Tom Bender]

What will you put on the discharge side of the fan?

That unit is going to make quite a roaring noise. Is it mounted on a house wall or an outside wall?

[Robert Engel]

Water under the bridge but here's what I do:

Make a small incision over the wire on the inside, grab hold of it and pull out several spirals, cut off.

This leaves a "wireless" section of flex which will easily slide over a blast gate or port.

In addition, you get a better seal because there is no wire between the clamp and the port.

More importantly, how are you going to seal that garbage can?

FWIW I use a Brute can with a bicycle inner tube fixed to the rim. Works great.

[Doug Walls]

What will you put on the discharge side of the fan?
The discharge side of the blower will be going into a cabinet I built that holds an industrial style cartridge filter.
There's a picture of the cabinet in post 11 above! Here's a few more pictures of the filter & cabinet during construction.
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The reason I needed to build the cabinet is because this style filter is designed for air flow from the outside towards the inside.
Naturally that is the opposite of the filters usually used for dust collectors! Awhile back I picked up 4 of these filters for $100 from a local shop that was going out of business, the filters were replacements for a commercial dust collection system & they were unused & still in the original boxes.


That unit is going to make quite a roaring noise.
Yeah, the original design use to sit on-top of a 55gal barrel & it sounded like a small jet engine.
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Hopefully the cabinet/filter will quiet it down some?


Is it mounted on a house wall or an outside wall?
It's mounted to the wall of my detached garage.

Doug

[Doug Walls]

Make a small incision over the wire on the inside, grab hold of it and pull out several spirals, cut off.
This leaves a "wireless" section of flex which will easily slide over a blast gate or port.
Thanks, I'll try that tip the next time I run into problems!


More importantly, how are you going to seal that garbage can?
I'm planning to use thickened fiberglass resin on the inside seams & fiberglass mat/resin where the handles are attached.
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The wood ring used to connect the hose to the lid will also be sealed with fiberglass.
The inside of the lid will have a foam-rubber weather strip along the inside edge, The inside wood ring I sealed with some left over OSI Quad caulk.
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FWIW I use a Brute can with a bicycle inner tube fixed to the rim. Works great.
Does it collapse any if there's a blockage, or if the inlet was closed with a blast gate?

I'm thinking of reinforcing the inside of my metal can with several metal rings?

Doug

[Doug Walls]

That unit is going to make quite a roaring noise. Is it mounted on a house wall or an outside wall?
I have a 5hp. idler motor for my RPC that's attached to a wall mounted bracket on the other side of the garage & it doesn't really create any noise from vibrations.
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There's a low rumbling sound coming from the wall but it's not loud.

Having the idler motor mounted up about 6' on the wall helps free-up some space & I believe it also helps dissipate the sound of the idler motor running.
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I originally had a 3hp. RPC & the idler motor was mounted to a lower shelf of a wooden bench, that set-up made a lot more noise. Basically, everything on-top of the bench would rattle/vibrate making more noise.

Doug

[Doug Walls]

I got the blower motor & impeller connected to the dust collector & I was able to give it a test run just to see how loud it was.
It's not really terrible, but I may try to add some type of damping foam to the inside of the filter cabinet.
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My RPC & 3-phase wiring is all on the other side of the garage.
Here's some pictures of when I installed the 3-phase conduit & fuse/junction box.
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Instead of running some more conduit & adding a 3-phase outlet near the dust collector, I'm thinking of just picking up a VFD to run the dust collector on. A VFD will allow me to control the dust collector's speed/airflow & it would also let me set it up to slowly ramp up the speed.

Doug

[Doug Walls]

Bringing this old post back up for an update!

I picked up a larger 3HP. 3PH. blower/motor assembly over the winter & now that the weather is getting better, I'll be taking the 2HP. blower assembly down & upgrading the dust collector to the 3HP blower.
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With the larger motor, I'm planning to run it on a VFD so that I can adjust the speed/airflow when needed.
I'm just getting use to working with VFD's, so I'm a little unsure of how the sizing works for them!
Here's a pic of the motor's nameplate.
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The amp draw is 7.4 at 230V! Will this blower/motor run ok on a 3HP VFD that's rated at 10.5 amps, or should I get a 5hp VFD that's rated around 17 amps?

Doug

[Aaron Inami]

You can get VFDs that either have 3-phase input or a single-phase input. If you get a 3-phase input, you have to up-size the VFD. So, if you are using a 3HP motor, I would recommend a 7.5HP 3-phase input VFD. A 5HP -might- work, but I think it would be on the edge.

With a single-phase input VFD, you are fine getting a 3HP VFD. I use an 5HP ATO VFD, but here is the 3HP version:

https://www.ato.com/3hp-vfd

There are a number of cheaper Chinese VFDs on Amazon that are supposedly 3HP single-phase to 3-phase VFDs, but many are missing components/functions (i.e. brake resistor circuit doesn't exist, potentiometer knob doesn't work). Also, the ATO documentation is large and excellent (and in English).

[Doug Walls]

You can get VFDs that either have 3-phase input or a single-phase input.
Yeah, I would be using single-phase input.


I use an 5HP ATO VFD, but here is the 3HP version:
That's one I was thinking about! https://www.ato.com/5hp-vfd

Fuji has a 3hp VFD that's rated at 12amps which is a little higher than the ATO 3HP. at 10amps.
https://www.datasheets.com/en/part-details/frn0012c2s-7u-fuji-electric-54789847
The data sheet for the Fuji 3HP VFD states it can draw 24-amps!
I didn't see anything about circuit size needed for the 5HP ATO!
What size circuit do you have your 5HP ATO VFD on?

Doug

[Aaron Inami]

I have a 30 amp circuit for the 5HP VFD. You can certainly get the 5HP VFD if you want or the Fuji 3HP. You would be fine with a 20 amp circuit for the 3HP.

[Chris Parks]

I'm planning on running 5" metal spiral pipe along the wall with a couple of 4" & 2-1/2" drops, there will be about a 30-degree bend in-between the cyclone inlet & the wall.


I know this is an old thread but it is pointless to run from a larger diameter to a smaller diameter as the airflow will be dictated by the smaller diameter and the extra cost of the larger duct will be wasted.

[Doug Walls]

I have a 30 amp circuit for the 5HP VFD. You can certainly get the 5HP VFD if you want.
Thanks! I couldn't find any information on the ATO web site, but I figured that a 30-amp circuit would be good.


The Fuji 3HP. You would be fine with a 20 amp circuit for the 3HP.
I was kind of thinking that also, I currently have a 20-amp circuit buy the dust collector I could use.

My wiring is ran in metal conduit, so changing the wiring & breaker to 30-amps would not be too hard.

Doug

[Aaron Inami]

Heh, that being said, the VFD will only suck as much power is required by the motor. If you are attaching a 3HP motor to a 5HP VFD, it will only use as much current as the 3HP motor requires (which is shown as 7.8A on your motor plate). You could be just fine with a 20A circuit.

[Doug Walls]

I know this is an old thread but it is pointless to run from a larger diameter to a smaller diameter as the airflow will be dictated by the smaller diameter and the extra cost of the larger duct will be wasted.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at?
Based on a number of layout drawings I've seen they suggest having the main trunk duct the size of the dust collector's inlet.
The individual drops from the main trunk are reduced to the size of the fitting on the machines.
The way I understand it, having the larger volume of air in the main trunk helps prevent CFM losses if you have more than one drop open at a time.

This is one of the information sources I've saved.
https://www.spiralmfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/dust_collection.pdf

Doug

[Aaron Inami]

Maybe Chris Parks was really talking about velocity. Having a larger main trunk can be good, but be aware that air velocity is affected. For example, you could have drops that are 5-6" and run the dust collector speed high enough to pull your dust up. However, when the 5-6" drop is fed into a much larger 8" main trunk, the velocity of the air slows down. This velocity may not be enough to pull the dust all the way through the trunk. What ends up happening is dust will start to accumulate in your main trunk and possibly cause problems (air flow and possibly fire hazard). To alleviate this, you should open up two or three drops and run the dust collector at full speed to ensure you "flush" the main trunk to clear out any residing dust/debris.

[Doug Walls]

I have a 30 amp circuit for the 5HP VFD. You can certainly get the 5HP VFD.
What type of machine & motor hp. are you running off of the 5HP. ATO VFD?


You would be fine with a 20 amp circuit for the 3HP.
I originally thought that also but looking into how these VFD operate, I'm having second thoughts about the amount of power they can actually draw.

I came across another 3HP VFD from Automation Direct & their website has a lot of information about the drive on it. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro_vfds/gs11n-23p0
Looking through the user manual online, it states to use 8-AWG wire for the input side of the VFD. Using 8-AWG wire would suggest that a 40-amp circuit would be needed.

Here's a picture of the label on the VFD, it shows that the maximum power draw of a VT motor is 27.5 amps.
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Using the standard method of sizing a circuit at 125% of the maximum power draw would mean that a 35-amp breaker would be the minimum size needed.


Doug

[Aaron Inami]

Hey Doug. Those are probably absolute maximum values. I don't see any reason why you would need 8-AWG wire on the inputs of either a 3HP VFD or a single phase 3-HP motor. I'm running 10awg romex to the inputs of my 5HP VFD (going to a 5HP Baldor motor). It does just fine. The VFD has a slow-start mechanism that creeps up the A/C cycles. This allows you to drastically reduce how much current is being pulled as the motor spins up gradually (over 5 seconds seems to be the optimum time). If you have all your blastgates closed, the motor will pull even less current on startup. On my 5HP, I think it was pulling about a max of 14-15 single-phase amps with the motor running full speed and all blastgates open.

[Doug Walls]

Hey Doug. Those are probably absolute maximum values. I don't see any reason why you would need 8-AWG wire on the inputs of either a 3HP VFD or a single phase 3-HP motor.
Yeah, that would be the maximum it could pull.
Being I'm going to be upsizing the circuit to the dust collector anyways, I figured I would set it up to match the VFD.


The VFD has a slow-start mechanism that creeps up the A/C cycles. This allows you to drastically reduce how much current is being pulled as the motor spins up gradually (over 5 seconds seems to be the optimum time).

I'm familiar with that feature on a VFD!
I have a Powermatic 1200HD drill press with a 2HP Baldor motor & a Baldor VFD
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It's programed to slowly start-up & slowly slow down, it also does this when switching between FWD. & REV. which is good for tapping.
The manual for the Baldor VFD calls for 10-AWG. wire & a 30-amp circuit.

Doug

[Chris Parks]

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at?
Based on a number of layout drawings I've seen they suggest having the main trunk duct the size of the dust collector's inlet.
The individual drops from the main trunk are reduced to the size of the fitting on the machines.
The way I understand it, having the larger volume of air in the main trunk helps prevent CFM losses if you have more than one drop open at a time.

This is one of the information sources I've saved.
https://www.spiralmfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/dust_collection.pdf

Doug
Doug, 99.9% of DE videos on YT are all wrong and all machines without exception are made wrong. 4" ducting has a very low maximum flow rate, somewhere around 600 to 700 CFM and two of those ducts just about equals what a single 6" duct will flow given the ability of the DE to pull that much air. If you want maximum return for your money and time modify all the machines to 6" ports and run 6" all the way. If the DE is capable of exceeding the maximum flow of a 6" duct and you have multiple ports open at the same time use a 8" duct and 6" drops from that as two 6" will work with a 8" duct.

Another way to look at it is if you want to use 6" (it will do an excellent job) and your DE will max it out you can use your VFD to slow it down and reduce noise levels or if the DE is a bit low on flow it can be run faster, I for instance run my 15" Clearvue at 70hz and have done so for years with no problems. The major knowledge resource for all this stuff is on the Australian WW forum website, do a Google search for "Woodworking Forum Australia" and go the dust extraction sub forum. There are a number of stickies there that have proven information in them as well as thousands of posts and questions. It is in fact the best knowledge base you will find anywhere and stay away from YT. I have only seen one YT video that went right through setting up a DE and duct system on YT and unfortunately I forgot to book mark it but he did an excellent job of explaining it all.