Battery Platforms (22/36/40V etc.)

[Philipp Jaindl]

Good Day Folks,

I know this may open, if indirectly, the color preference can of worms however quite curious on what/if theres a consensus and the opinions on the matter so here goes.

With Makita XGT 40(36)V, Hikoki/Metabo HPT MultiVolt 36V, US Flex 24V,Hilti 22V, etc. , more and more Manufacturers seem to be hopping on the higher voltage train Battery Platforms. Now with more and more "regular" tools like drills, impact drivers and so on being released on said higher voltage platforms, are they the way to go now or just making batteries heavier and bulkier?

Not accounting for tools like Angle Grinders, Rotary Hammers, Chainsaws, Gardening Tools etc. which definitely do benefit from more power, e.g. Dewalt's 54/60V.

Personally on the Jobsite the potential extra power and or runtime could come in useful and handy though for applications like working overhead im not sure you really want more bulk and weight. Private use running your Drill, Driver on the same Batteries as your Hedge Trimmer, Weed Trimmer does sound rather convenient though the extra cost, depending on brand, might be a deal breaker.

So as already alluded to, whats your take on the matter? 18V still plenty good? as Milwaukee seems to think. Worth buying into for people newly buying into a Cordless Platform or even worth switching over from 18V ?

Regards Philipp.

[Darrell Bade]

I've wondered this same thing. Only thing I have higher than 18v is a pole saw which is 40v. I do have a blower, weed whacker and chainsaw that all work very well and I'm impressed with their torque and power, they are all Milwaukee 18v. The chainsaw does require the 12ah battery to shine for a long period of time. Milwaukee seems to be doing something right to get what they are out of 18v. Bottom line though, I'm not a Milwaukee fan boy and might be missing something by sticking with 18v but they work well for me and I am very happy with one battery system and one charger that will charge my 12v & 18v tools from the drill/drivers, circular saw, sawzall, yard tools etc.

[Bryan Lisowski]

If I was going to go all cordless for yard work, I think I would prefer the bigger battery platforms for longer run time. However for tools like drills and the like I’m fine with 18v. I think the biggest thing is sticking with 1 platform.

[Richard Coers]

Based on my age(arthritis), the amount, and kind of work I've been doing, 12v is plenty good for me.

[Jim Becker]

Some tools need to work harder and more continuously than other tools. That's where there's going to be a larger benefit to the higher voltage and/or dual battery setups. They are coming along because the trades are really eating up using battery powered equipment across the board where they can including things like portable table saws, miter saws, etc. So actual use intention really matters, IMHO. For many things hand-held, the typical 18-20v tool is going to offer the best combination of power vs weight. The good news there is that technology marches on and it's become possible to get more amp-hour out of a physically smaller battery pack. That's easier on the arms for sure.

[roger wiegand]

For drills and drivers I find the 18V Li-ion tools to be completely adequate. I find myself opting for the smaller battery packs these days because I appreciate the reduced weight. They charge so fast that even for fairly intensive tasks it's possible to swap between two packs and work continuously.

[Andrew More]

Depends. I really think you need to know what you're going to do with the tool before you buy it.

I bought DeWalt's 60V circular saw because at the time all the other cordless tools were not the standard 7 1/4" blade. I believe that has since changed. For a lot of other tools it's more a question of longer run time, which might or might not be necessary for your application. Personally I like the move to dual batteries, like the DeWalt cordless lawn mower over the large 40/60V battery packs with fewer applications.

Finally I think 12V deserves some discussion. I've got Bosch's 12V drill/driver and it's all the power I need. I have yet to run into a situation where I really need to switch to my 20V dewalt set. That having been said, the chuck on the Bosch drill is terrible. I might need the DeWalt 20V impact for taking off lug nuts.

[Mike Henderson]

I have some of the DeWalt 12V, 20V and 60V. They all work fine. The big difference is weight. For my cordless leaf blower, I need the 60V. For most shop tools, the 20V work fine. When weight and fatigue is considered, I bring out the 12V tools. For example, I had a situation where I had to drill a bunch of holes and then put in a screw in each hole, in an awkward position. The 12V tools were best for that.

Mike

[Ron Selzer]

Like Mike I have the Dewalt 12v, 18v, 20v and 60v. I prefer the 12v in the shop and around the house. 18v and now 20v at work and for larger, heavier projects at home. Tho probably will get a 12v drill and driver at work before school starts back. 60v is very nice and only way to go when you definitely need power.
If I wasn't so tied to the DeWalt line, I would be looking hard at some of the others that use two batteries for heavier items in place of one 60v.
Contractors here stated that they were required to use all battery powered tools on extensive school remodel/rebuild. Only saw corded jack hammers in use.
Ron

[Myles Moran]

I'm in the Makita system, and I'm very happy with the 18x2 36V tools. I've got a 36V power head that runs my string trimmer and a pole saw, and I'll probably end up with one of their 36V chainsaws too at some point. I'm a big fan of being able to use the same batteries across the platform - 2 drill batteries can run the string trimmer and when I'm done with yardwork I have enough batteries to keep one in each tool while working instead of having to swap them out.

[Patrick Varley]

Good Day Folks,

I know this may open, if indirectly, the color preference can of worms however quite curious on what/if theres a consensus and the opinions on the matter so here goes.

With Makita XGT 40(36)V, Hikoki/Metabo HPT MultiVolt 36V, US Flex 24V,Hilti 22V, etc. , more and more Manufacturers seem to be hopping on the higher voltage train Battery Platforms. Now with more and more "regular" tools like drills, impact drivers and so on being released on said higher voltage platforms, are they the way to go now or just making batteries heavier and bulkier?

Not accounting for tools like Angle Grinders, Rotary Hammers, Chainsaws, Gardening Tools etc. which definitely do benefit from more power, e.g. Dewalt's 54/60V.

Personally on the Jobsite the potential extra power and or runtime could come in useful and handy though for applications like working overhead im not sure you really want more bulk and weight. Private use running your Drill, Driver on the same Batteries as your Hedge Trimmer, Weed Trimmer does sound rather convenient though the extra cost, depending on brand, might be a deal breaker.

So as already alluded to, whats your take on the matter? 18V still plenty good? as Milwaukee seems to think. Worth buying into for people newly buying into a Cordless Platform or even worth switching over from 18V ?

Regards Philipp.

I'm only a hobbyist/home DIYer, but I've found the DeWalt FlexVolt comes in handy occasionally. I have the FlexVolt hammer drill and grinder, and while I can just use the standard 20V batteries in them for the vast majority of things, it has been helpful to put a bigger battery for some projects (both power and runtime).

[Mike Henderson]

I'm only a hobbyist/home DIYer, but I've found the DeWalt FlexVolt comes in handy occasionally. I have the FlexVolt hammer drill and grinder, and while I can just use the standard 20V batteries in them for the vast majority of things, it has been helpful to put a bigger battery for some projects (both power and runtime).

I agree. I have occasionally put my 60V FlexVolt battery in a 20V tool when I want to have a lot of runtime. Nice, but very heavy.

Mike

[Doug Colombo]

Question - isn’t run time more based on the AH rating of the batteries vs voltage ?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Makita 18V had/has the best selection of tools that I used so that's what I went with.
My days of cordless use are rapidly coming to an end though.

[Patrick Varley]

Question - isn’t run time more based on the AH rating of the batteries vs voltage ?

Yes, that is true. The 20V DeWalt batteries come in 2/3/4/5/6/8/10 AH. But all of mine are 2 or 5.

The 20v/60V are 6/9/12/15 AH. For bigger tools, the 12/15 makes sense. For hand tools like the grinder and hammer drill the 6/9 are about as big as reasonable, imo (based on ergonomics).

So instead of buying the bigger 20V batteries, I just use the larger 20/60V batteries, which also provide more power (on tools built to take advantage of it). But if you don't have any of those, makes sense to just buy the larger 20V batteries.

[Mike Henderson]

Question - isn’t run time more based on the AH rating of the batteries vs voltage ?

The 60V DeWalt FlexVolt batteries are actually three 20V batteries in one package. When used as 60V batteries, the individual batteries are in series. When used as 20V batteries, the individual batteries are in parallel. So if the individual batteries are (for example) 3Ahr batteries, you have a 9Ahr battery when used as a 20V battery.

Mike

[Greg Funk]

Pretty well all power-tool batteries use cylindrical Li-Ion cells packaged into a battery. The run-time of a tool is based on the total energy of the battery divided by the power used. More cells in the battery will provide more energy and a longer run time. Adding cells in parallel or series provides more Ah or Voltage respectively but the effect on run-time is roughly the same.

For higher power applications higher voltage is more efficient and generates less heat hence the trend to 60+V batteries for heavier duty applications.

[Michael Schuch]

I mostly use corded tools in my shop. For around the house and property I have a good selection of 18v Dewalt tools for most chores. After market 18v Li Ion and NiMH batteries (with the appropriate charger) keep them running better than when they were new. I have added a few Dewalt 20v tools along the way. There might be better cordless tools with better features but the old Dewalt tools always get the job done for me. I still have and use the 18v Dewalt XRP drill that my parents gave me 30 years ago. It is hard to argue with that kind of reliability.

[Carl Beckett]

I have a number of Makita LXT tools. The batteries come in different sizes. As was mentioned, for some tools that pull a lot of juice I want the larger batteries (circ saw comes to mind). But for other tools, I more often than not put the smaller battery on it (impact drivers and drills for driving screws).

This may be independent of voltage as was mentioned. All of these are 18V but the 2mA batteries are much much smaller/lighter than the larger ones.

There is still a place for corded tools in my shop, although cordless have come a long ways and is now used more than corded.

So for me, SMALLER is better (I even have a small screwdriver type cordless at work which works great!)

[Philipp Jaindl]

As numerously stated it is certainly true that application matters very much, and the lighter the tool the easier it is to work with over extended periods of time. Havent had any issues with lack of power of 18/20V tools much either.

The Systems that allow higher voltage Batteries to use on low Voltage tools for extended power/run time is a good point, hopefully more manufacturers will use the same Interface between their batteries and allow for that. It would certainly make it easier for people first time buying into a Platform not being locked into just 1 series of Tools of that Manufacturer.

As for the 10.8/12V tools would agree they deserve a mention, having used both Milwaukee aswell as Bosch Drill/Drivers while some think the fatter grip due to the battery is uncomfortable, personally never had that issue. Really good tools for overhead or cramped work in tight spaces.

[Jason Roehl]

Pretty well all power-tool batteries use cylindrical Li-Ion cells packaged into a battery. The run-time of a tool is based on the total energy of the battery divided by the power used. More cells in the battery will provide more energy and a longer run time. Adding cells in parallel or series provides more Ah or Voltage respectively but the effect on run-time is roughly the same.

For higher power applications higher voltage is more efficient and generates less heat hence the trend to 60+V batteries for heavier duty applications.

Yes, this. All else being equal, higher voltage means higher torque, while more weight means more runtime (higher Amp-hour rating).

[Jim Becker]

As for the 10.8/12V tools would agree they deserve a mention, having used both Milwaukee aswell as Bosch Drill/Drivers while some think the fatter grip due to the battery is uncomfortable, personally never had that issue. Really good tools for overhead or cramped work in tight spaces.
I resemble that remark...my two CSX drill/drivers are the most used portable power tools I own for sure and I don't pull out the heavier D/D(s) unless the job truly requires them. The weight difference is substantial and noticable.

[Scott Clausen]

My employees hated the Ridgid cordless tools and wanted Milwaukee cordless tools. That left me with a huge assortment of chargers and tools that as they burn up or fail I just grab another. The only thing I need is a new battery from time to time and I buy knock off replacements. All that said I would go with the Milwaukee cordless if quality is the driver. My outdoor tools I settled on Ryobi 40 volt and have not been disappointed. I will move completely away from gas power not because I am green it is just quieter and more convenient. Just waiting on two more yard tools to die. As a hobbyist and mostly hand tool woodworker I may check out the Ryobi line when the need arises. Before someone points this out I am aware that the Ridgid line was made by Ryobi.

[Rod Sheridan]

I resemble that remark...my two CSX drill/drivers are the most used portable power tools I own for sure and I don't pull out the heavier D/D(s) unless the job truly requires them. The weight difference is substantial and noticable.

Absolutely agree Jim, anything larger and I get out a real drill that plugs in……Regards, Rod

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I still limp along with 9.6 volts. An upgrade may be in my future. It is nice to have 120 volts close by, at the end of a cord. I also have a 4700 watt inverter and an extra automobile battery in the car. They make 132+ volts if the car is running. Tools really hum at 132 volts. The tools seem to love it, I hope they last.

[Jim Dwight]

I think the voltage wars are more marketing nonsense than anything else. First, there is no more power in a higher voltage battery. All our lithium ion batteries are made up of lots of little cells around 1.2V each. If we connect them in series, we get higher voltage. In parallel, lower voltage. But the power we can get out of them is not dependent on how they are connected, it is dependent on the number of little cells and their quality. It is the amp hours of the battery that determine how much work they can do, not the voltage. Now there may be an advantage of higher voltage in the motor of the tool, I don't know, but for the battery, it makes no difference.

I have 18V and 12V Milwaukee, 18 V Skil, 18V Wen, 18V Ryobi, 12V Bosch, and 40 V Ryobi tools/batteries/chargers. So definitely my experience is with the lower voltage tools but my argument above is not based upon experience, just the science of battery construction. I have a 40V and a 18V Ryobi chain saw. I bought the former and was given the latter. The 18V came with a 6 amp hour battery and worked fine to take down and cut up a cedar tree about a foot in diameter. It doesn't leak bar oil like the 40V so I like it a little better. I notice a run time difference between amp hours but not a difference from voltage.

[Greg Funk]

I think the voltage wars are more marketing nonsense than anything else. First, there is no more power in a higher voltage battery. All our lithium ion batteries are made up of lots of little cells around 1.2V each. If we connect them in series, we get higher voltage. In parallel, lower voltage. But the power we can get out of them is not dependent on how they are connected, it is dependent on the number of little cells and their quality.The energy in the pack is the same regardless of how it's connected but the power available to a motor definitely depends on the voltage levels. The battery needs to be connected to the motor with wires and connectors. For the same size wires and connectors you have lower losses with high voltage/low current. It's not practical to build higher power devices with low voltage batteries, hence the reason EVs use battery packs of 300+V.

[Mike Henderson]

The energy in the pack is the same regardless of how it's connected but the power available to a motor definitely depends on the voltage levels. The battery needs to be connected to the motor with wires and connectors. For the same size wires and connectors you have lower losses with high voltage/low current. It's not practical to build higher power devices with low voltage batteries, hence the reason EVs use battery packs of 300+V.

Greg is correct. It's the same thing with motors in our shops. Technically, there's no difference in horsepower in running a motor on 120 volts or 240 volts. But you need bigger wires if it's run on 120 volts because the current is double. Battery tools are the same. You have wires and connectors that have resistance. Higher voltage and lower current reduces the losses in those elements and gives you more power to the tool.

[The power lost in the resistance is P=(I^2)*R. The power lost goes up with the square of current. Reducing the current by increasing the voltage makes a big difference in the losses in the wire resistance and the connector resistance.]

Mike

[Jim Dwight]

I find my 12V Bosch and Milwaukee drills to be handy and suitable for most of what I want to do. Occasionally I need a 18V. But I found saws to be pretty useless until lithium ion batteries came out and would think the same logic would probably apply - 12V not so good. But I have a Bosch 12V jigsaw on my wish list. I "want" it for light duty like coping trim and I think it would work for that.

I am also very aware that the same kW at higher voltage means less amps. Less amps can mean smaller conductors and connectors but I don't think it does in cordless power tools. We are not talking about high kW devices and the practicality of handling tiny wires and connectors is probably a factor too. The tool motors are not very efficient and that inefficiency swamps any theoretical effect of the I squared R losses. I am not saying that there is not a small advantage for higher voltage I am just saying I don't think it is a very substantial factor. But the importance certainly increases as we get more powerful cordless tools incorporating larger battery packs and higher kW motors. For something like a cordless table saw I think it's a substantial factor and a higher voltage battery is at least a very good idea. For a cordless drill, I don't think voltage is much of a factor. My cordless Milwaukee hammer drill and framing nailer seem to work just fine on their 18V batteries.

[Mitch schiffer]

I have quite a few milwaukee m18 tools. I like most of them better then the dewalt flexvolt and the Marita 36volt. The high voltage batteries have a lower amo hour capacity so I haven't really seen much difference in performance or runtime. If possible I recommend you stick with one battery platform for all your cordless tools.

[Dan Friedrichs]

The energy in the pack is the same regardless of how it's connected but the power available to a motor definitely depends on the voltage levels. The battery needs to be connected to the motor with wires and connectors. For the same size wires and connectors you have lower losses with high voltage/low current. It's not practical to build higher power devices with low voltage batteries, hence the reason EVs use battery packs of 300+V.

I think this is true to an extent, but the discussion so far seems to have skipped over the switch to brushless motors, which significantly changes the above understanding. Brushless motors are driven by power converters which vary the voltage to the motor (essentially small "VFDs" inside your tools). Higher I2R losses between the battery and power converter would seem to be negligible (where the distance travelled is inches, compared to an EV where it might be tens of feet).

I suspect the higher power tool voltages are some combination of marketing hype and optimization with available power converter technology (e.g. voltage ratings on transistors).

[Scott Clausen]

I say pick a quality tool platform, voltage and standardize on it. Who needs a bank of different chargers and batteries to go with them.

[Michael Schuch]

I say pick a quality tool platform, voltage and standardize on it. Who needs a bank of different chargers and batteries to go with them.

I completely agree! That is why I have stuck with Dewalt even though there is a lot of talk of better tools out there. The one exception is I have a 20 year old Ridgid caulking gun that I use a surprising amount more that I ever thought I would (I actually inherited the Ridgid caulking gun from my father). The last time the Ridgid NiCad battery died I bought an adapter off of ebay and now use a Dewalt 20v battery pack to power it. It works great and I no longer have to mess with a Ridgid battery charger (I would have had to buy a new Ridgid charger and new LiIon battery if I wanted to upgrade it to a Ridgid brand non-NiCad battery).

I have found that the 2AHr Dewalt batteries are light enough weight and more than sufficient for most projects. For me keeping a second set of 12v tools doesn't make a lot of sense.

If I used battery powered tools to make my living I am sure my needs and opinions would be MUCH different!

[Tom M King]

I've had Makita cordless tools for working on houses since the mid 1980's, and have a fairly good sized collection. The 18v Makita circular works great, and it does get used for small jobs, but I wouldn't frame a house with it.

An 18v Impact Wrench will change the tires on the dually, and any of the tractors here.

I use Milwaukee in the mechanic shop to keep the greasy hand used tools separate from the Makita's used in houses.

18v has been plenty good enough for me. I bought a Ryobi 18v mister back at the beginning of the pandemic. It was my first Ryobi tool, and after that I bought their work light because it was cheap. It works just fine. I already had the Makita 18v little top handle saw for climbing and working out of a bucket. I cut a 6" Red Oak limb off with that saw and Many smaller ones off a bunch of trees.

Then I bought their polesaw, sticking with the 18V to keep in the toolbox on the truck since I already has the Ryobi battery and charger that came with the mister. It surprised me how good it is. It will work as long as I want to, and limbed up a one acre stand of trees so I could drive the mower under the trees without having to fold down the roll bar. It did all I needed it to, and only changed the battery once. A free 18v blower came with that polesaw when I bought it. At first, I thought the blower was a joke, but it's become my most used blower, and stays in the truck.

Since I already had the Ryobi batteries, I bought a string trimmer to keep on the mower. I can use it with one hand while on the mower, and the Stihl string trimmers haven't been started this grass cutting season yet.



Several years ago, I bought the low end Stihl hedge trimmer to trim a few Boxwoods with. I don't even know what voltage the battery is, but it's built in. That has done all I need to do with one.

I do have gas powered Stihl pole chainsaw, hedge trimmer, and chainsaws, but it's kind of a production to use one of those, so the 18v cordless ones are getting the most use.

I guess the larger battery tools are for people who will work with them all day, or at least a lot more than I do.

[Donald G. Burns]

Higher voltage tools seems somewhat like razor blade sellers - replace your 1 blade with 2, 2 with 3, 3 with 4 etc. etc. etc. I have a light weight Ryobi 12v drill, it used old style NiMH batteries that had a coaxial connector for recharging. These beasts are no longer products, but the Chinese produce new Li Ion batteries that are compatible. I like this drill because of the light overall weight. I also have Makita 18v drill, driver and circ. saw and all work fine for me. I'm a hobbyist and am 75 years old, so thoughts of needing higher voltage tools doesn't interest me much. I also mostly can pause and recharge since I'm not on a clock.