Chipped chipbreaker

[Ivan Skof]

I have a little damaged LN 5 1/2 chipbreaker. How much of an issue is this? Is this repairable and how or this damage on a chipbreaker doesn't matter on 5 1/2?

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[Stephen Rosenthal]

I don’t know the answers to your questions, but if it needs repair I’ll bet if you called LN they will tell you to send it to them and fix it for free.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a little damaged LN 5 1/2 chipbreaker. How much of an issue is this? Is this repairable and how or this damage on a chipbreaker doesn't matter on 5 1/2?

Ivan, I would guess that it chipped as it is quite sharp. If it was mine, I would grind it back with a 50 degree leading edge angle. Now you will be able to benefit from closing the chipbreaker up, which will help resist tearout. Trying this technique with a sharp leading edge (the factory leading edge is 25 degrees) will not aid in closing up the chipbreaker.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Thomas Wilson]

A new one is $40.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/chipbreakers-2-3-8-chipbreaker

[Thomas McCurnin]

My experience with sending back an old abused Lie Neilsen plane which was physicially damaged that I stupidly bought from eBay? They repaired it for free. Great company, great planes.

[Ivan Skof]

A new one is $40.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/products/chipbreakers-2-3-8-chipbreaker

+$74 for shipping + 22% of total for import duty

[Ivan Skof]

Thanks Derek, I think I'll try that.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

+$74 for shipping + 22% of total for import duty

Normally I don’t look up a poster’s location, so didn’t realize you live in Slovenia. LN would probably fix or replace it for free but likely wouldn’t foot the shipping costs.

[Derek Cohen]

The damage (chip) to the leading edge of the chipbreaker looks to be minor. Discussing replacing the chipbreaker misses that the chipbreaker needs preparation if it is to be used to prevent tearout .... and that the preparation would involve grinding back the leading edge anyway (to create a 50 degree angle).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

A traditional cap iron has a rounded bevel. I have used rounded bevels for 50 years. The bevel should be steep where it meets the plane iron, on the order of 70 or 80 degrees; I use 80.

The Lie Nielsen cap iron , so-called "improve chipbreaker" was designed by someone who did not know how to use a plane. by the time you make an effective cap iron, you may no longer have a chip.

[Derek Cohen]

LN chipbreaker on a Veritas PM-V11 blade for my LN #3 ...

https://i.postimg.cc/pLjnyfQf/LN2.jpg

The 50 degree leading edge taken into a rounded bevel. A little extra bend to add spring ...

https://i.postimg.cc/65yZxJy1/LN3.jpg

Works pretty well for me.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom M King]

I don't know what the 5-1/2 is to be used for, but I only have close chipbreakers on a couple of smoothing planes, and a no.7.

[Derek Cohen]

Tom, although it is not my preference, a #5 1/2 is often used as a "Super Smoother". This was popularised by David Charlesworth. This is also popularised by Rob Cosman. Think of this a little like a panel plane. So a closed up chipbreaker is a likely choice here.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom Trees]

Great pictures Derek
Not so easy to get a photograph as clear as that!
I have tried to get as good, with a very similar plane set up as you do, and is what I would use for my densest iroko on my 5 1/2
and still have the smoother if that don't work.
TBH I've kind of gravitated to keeping things that way.

I've been temped to go further than an aimed for 51degrees for me smoother though,
as I have some other timbers which are as hard as rosewood which might likely benefit.
But with no need to be working that stuff yet, have no reason to require it...for my smoother, as my eyesight is good.

Curious to know if Warren is working stuff like this to warrant such a steep angle,
or if it's a matter of working rough stock and allowing a larger camber than Derek's excellently taken photo is showing
for heavier shavings, which would be heavier again than a... just under the 1/32" (maximum distance which I find to work on interlocked hardwoods 90% of the time)
which still works at 50 degrees.
Or could it possibly be for keeping the cap from getting damaged as easily on rougher stock?

No doubt I'll likely try on my smoother sometime, as that super dense stuff required the cap iron so close.

Tom

[Thomas Wilson]

+$74 for shipping + 22% of total for import duty
Ouch! I did not check your location either. I bought a spare one to experiment with cambered blades. It was painless in US.

[Warren Mickley]

Curious to know if Warren is working stuff like this to warrant such a steep angle,
or if it's a matter of working rough stock and allowing a larger camber than Derek's excellently taken photo is showing
for heavier shavings, which would be heavier again than a... just under the 1/32" (maximum distance which I find to work on interlocked hardwoods 90% of the time)
which still works at 50 degrees.
Or could it possibly be for keeping the cap from getting damaged as easily on rougher stock?

No doubt I'll likely try on my smoother sometime, as that super dense stuff required the cap iron so close.

Tom

It was difficult timber that caused me to increase the steepness of my cap iron in 1977. Rising the angle to 75 or 80 degrees solved the problem.

Years later I found a scrap from 1977 that I had planed on one side. I took it to a Lie Nielsen hand tool event and had them try to plane the other side. They could not plane it with a bevel up plane with a 60 degree angle. In all they tried four planes and freshly sharpened the irons and managed to remove 1/4 inch of material and leave an ugly mess, a lot rough than a sawn surface.

[Ivan Skof]

It was difficult timber that caused me to increase the steepness of my cap iron in 1977. Rising the angle to 75 or 80 degrees solved the problem.

What kind of timber was that?


Rising the angle to 75 or 80 degrees solved the problem.

What was the original angle?
Was there any difference planing non problematic timber with old angle vs 75-80 degrees angle?

Edit: How did you know back then to solve it by rising the angle to 75-80 degrees? Was that common knowledge among woodworkers? Why isn't 80 degrees factory default (I'm assuming others manufactures don't have chipbreaker at 80 degrees either)?

[Ivan Skof]

Do I "sharpen" the chipbreaker to 50 degrees as I would a plane blade?

I'm a little confused about that part:

>The 50 degree leading edge taken into a rounded bevel. A little extra bend to add spring ...

[Warren Mickley]

The leading edge of the cap iron should be rounded and not a flat bevel. A steep flat bevel is more susceptible to clogging, so you want the edge to be steep only right near the cutting iron. For my cap irons I gradually increased the tangent angle from 50 to around 80. With timber that is not prone to tearout, you can move the cap iron away from the edge. The high angle actually only comes into play when the cap iron is set extremely close, in other words only when needed.

No, you do not sharpen the cap iron at a constant bevel, rather it is rounded off. The cap iron usually has some spring to it, but that is not a functional necessity. It does have to be tight to the cutting iron so that shavings to not get jammed between the two irons.

[Tom M King]

That's a good idea if the cap iron is changed for different things. I just didn't think like that because I have so many planes that I never change the way I have one set up. I couldn't even tell you how many I have, but do keep those three set up with a close cap iron.

I used a no. 8 a few days ago that I probably hadn't used in 10 years. When I pulled the 8 toolbox out of its cubby, it felt heavier than I thought it should. There were also 2 pristine no. 5's in it that I don't remember when I bought. I am sure that I have never used those no. 5's. I don't keep them out where I can see them, but shut up in waterproof toolboxes. They are ready when I need one, like this one that might have been used ten years ago.

I've never held a 5-1/2 in my hands, and never felt the need for one.

[Mark Rainey]

I used a no. 8 a few days ago that I probably hadn't used in 10 years. When I pulled the 8 toolbox out of its cubby, it felt heavier than I thought
The 8 can be hefty

[Thomas Wilson]

That's a good idea if the cap iron is changed for different things. I just didn't think like that because I have so many planes that I never change the way I have one set up. I couldn't even tell you how many I have, but do keep those three set up with a close cap iron.

I used a no. 8 a few days ago that I probably hadn't used in 10 years. When I pulled the 8 toolbox out of its cubby, it felt heavier than I thought it should. There were also 2 pristine no. 5's in it that I don't remember when I bought. I am sure that I have never used those no. 5's. I don't keep them out where I can see them, but shut up in waterproof toolboxes. They are ready when I need one, like this one that might have been used ten years ago.

I've never held a 5-1/2 in my hands, and never felt the need for one.
The Plane Fairy visited your shop! When that happens at my place, Janicewhokeepsmehumble is suspicious.