new bandsaw wont' cut straight

[Forrest Gon]

My first bandsaw, a new rikon 10-3061, set it up according to the manual and various youtube tutorials such as Alex Snodgrass's method (align the blade, tension the blade, thrust bearings and side guides)


Now the issue is: the saw just won't cut straight, it will pull the wood off the fence and cut diagonally all the time, I have attached a photo. What could be the problem here? thanks!










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[eugene thomas]

get new blade.

[andy bessette]

Too narrow a blade to be using a fence.

[Forrest Gon]

Sorry I am a bandsaw noob, so I already need a new blade although the current one is brand new? 😂

Too narrow a blade to be using a fence.

[John TenEyck]

You might need a new blade if it's the one that came with the machine but more than likely the machine still isn't set up right. A narrow blade will cut straight if the machine is set up right.

Did you put the blade on the center of the upper wheel? Yes. Good. Did you align the table miter slot parallel with the blade and the fence parallel with the miter slot? No. OK, do that first. Yes. Ok, it should cut straight, so I'd get a new blade and try again. Subtle adjustments to the top wheel will steer the cut of the blade left or right, so if the new blade doesn't cut straight at first adjust the top wheel a small amount and observe what happens. You should be able to get it to cut straight without having to move it far from center on the upper wheel.

But if it still won't cut straight no matter how much you move the upper wheel then it's time to check if the wheels are coplaner. With all due respect to Mr. Snodgrass, it is important, and not all machines are set up properly when they leave the factory, so check to see if they are. You will have to take the table off but that's usually not too hard. But do the other stuff first and let us know how it turned out. Adjust the wheels isn't hard but there's no sense doing it unless warranted.

John

[andy bessette]

Sorry I am a bandsaw noob, so I already need a new blade although the current one is brand new? 

The narrow blade that came with the machine is likely to wander in the cut, so don't expect to be able to do re-saw work with it. For that you will need a wide blade intended for re-sawing, and highly tensioned, which is probably more than your small machine can handle.

[Rick Potter]

Most inexpensive blades, as supplied with a new saw, have stamped rather than ground teeth. The tooth set can make it track off in one direction. Without the fence, put a straight line on some scrap and follow the line six inches or so.
Stop without moving the work and it will be obvious what I am talking about. Your work piece will be sitting at an angle to the blade.

Noob alert...it's pretty normal. All the above stuff is correct too.

[Mike King]

most likely you do not have the fence (and table) aligned with the blade. While Snodgrass is good, Michael Fortune is much better.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-machines/how-to-set-up-a-bandsaw

[roger wiegand]

When all else fails you can angle the fence to match the angle the blade wants to cut at and achieve a straight cut. (My new used saw came with a "driftmaster" aftermarket fence to do exactly that with great precision). First thing I'd try though after following the Fortune or Duginski setup instructions is, as others have suggested, a good quality new blade from the likes of Lennox. You're going to want a half dozen blades on hand in any event-- you'll need both wide and skinny ones plus backups for the ones you use the most for when you break one in the middle of a project. You'll go through many blades over the life of your saw.

Having a way to assess tension is important, most new owners probably under-tension blades for fear of breaking something. Look at the "flutter test" for a low cost method that will get you into the ballpark.

[Prashun Patel]

I disagree that a narrow blade is the issue. If properly setup, the narrow blade can work in a piece that thin.

What are the specs on the blade? I found the stock blade on the 2 Grizzly bandsaws I owned to be bad. The TPI was way too high (I prefer to work aggressive in 3-4 TPI). These clear dust better than finer teeth blades. The inability of a blade to clear its gullets in the cut can cause deflection.

The second issue is blade tension. There are a bunch of ways to properly set tension that I won't repeat here. But basically, you want the blade to be just tensioned enough to eliminate flutter.

The third issue is guides improperly set.

You should also take care to use proper feed rate. You will learn to let the saw show you how fast you should feed. You can just feel it. Go too fast and your cut will belly. There is little detriment to going too slow on a straight cut.

Lonnie Bird and Mike Duginske have great books on using the bandsaw. I highly recommend. It's a tool that can do a lot. Understanding its mechanics is a worthwhile investment.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I purchased a new Mini-Max MM-16 over 10 years ago at a price of around $3,000. The blade that came on it was terrible! It is not unusual that the blades that come with new bandsaws are the least expensive available. It's commonplace!

I highly recommend a book by Mark Duginske - The New Complete Guide to Bandsaws available on Amazon in paperback for $19.95. Excellent book - well written - well illustrated.

[Edward Weber]

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This is how I do it and it has never failed.

[Forrest Gon]

I watched this video and have followed all the steps and the result is still the same.

In order to rule out the possible alignment issue, I on purposely "rotated" the table as far as it could go so by theory the cut after this should be going diagonally to the other direction. But nothing has changed, the cut is still the same.



most likely you do not have the fence (and table) aligned with the blade. While Snodgrass is good, Michael Fortune is much better.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-machines/how-to-set-up-a-bandsaw

[Darren Brown]

I have the same saw. It is an unsung hero. As a woodworker that used to have a shop full of high dollar Austrian tools, the Rikon 10-3061 is as much band saw as most hobbiest woodworkers need. I routinely use it to resaw to it's full capacity which is 5 inches. That being said, the blade that ships with the saw is hot garbage. Do yourself a favor and go to Highland Hardware and get yourself a Wood Slicer. They aren't cheap but neither is your free time. If a brand new Wood Slicer doesn't solve your problems you can work your way through the other variables one by one. I seriously doubt your wheels are not coplaner. Also, from the picture, it appears that you are trying to cut some sort of end grain cut off. This could lead to a less than superior cut, especially since it appears that the face of your stock you have riding against the fence is not flat.

Darren

[Bruce Page]

I’m assuming you raised the upper guide for the picture. If not, lower the guide to within ¼” of the workpiece before making the cut. Like Ken, the blades that came with my MM16 were junk.

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with the others, factory supplied blades aren't very good. I used to have a problem with my Delta 14" band saw not cutting straight. After carefully adjusting the saw per this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNdrkmx6ehI) with a new timber wolf blade my saw cuts straight each and every time, using the fence as a guide. Make sure you pay attention to centering the blade on the upper wheel as that make the most difference. I can also now use my miter slog and get square end cuts.

[Jim Becker]

Sorry I am a bandsaw noob, so I already need a new blade although the current one is brand new? 

Different configurations of bands for different purposes is the name of the game...also the bands that tend to be "in the box" with mass market bandsaws typically are not, um...the best quality bands, either.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Lots of good advice, but I disagree that a bad blade or a thin blade would cause this problem. I've been using the same 20 year old blades that came with my used Rockwell Saw and they work fine. The best advice I can give is to watch this video "Tuning up your band saw for the anally retentive." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DzbJYIPPNE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DzbJYIPPNE) Sharp and square solves all problems.

[Forrest Gon]

okay, here is another update,


Changing the blade position does not change much(if anything), i was putting the the deepest part of the gullet with the center of the top wheel, and moving the blade to the front to the upper wheel does not help either.

Blade to table alignment also can be ruled out, as I angled the table all the way to the right, then all the way to the left, both time the result is the same.

I will go ahead and order a new blade, any recommendation?

[Bryan Lisowski]

Thinner blade needs to be tensioned properly and need to have guide just above the work piece. There also could be tension in the wood, but maybe something with the grain structure of the wood (basically blade is following the grain). Generally a bad blade will lead to this.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Forrest,

Most bandsaws have wheels that are crowned. For those bandsaws, the blade typically needs to be centered on the upper wheel.

Most more expensive European bandsaws have flat wheels, and, on those saws, most blades are aligned with the gullet resting on the front edge of the wheel. I have read of some who center a narrow blade on their European bandsaw. I hang mine off the front of the wheel.

Using and aligning bandsaws is like a lot of other skills. There is a learning curve. Find different methods, follow each one explicitly and find which one works for you. It will take time.

[andy bessette]

...lower the guide to within ¼” of the workpiece...

This is not possible when cutting narrow strips because the guide will hit the top of the fence.

[Jim Dwight]

I am not terribly experienced with bandsaws either although I am on my second. My first was a home made 12 inch I used for maybe a decade before moving and throwing it away. It cut OK on curves but was useless for resaw work. For a straight cut, it needed the widest blade it could tension. I sometimes used 1/2 on it but it couldn't really tensio them very well.

My current saw is much nicer, a steel box frame Jet 14 inch. I have resawn cherry up to 8 or 9 inches wide so far on it (13 inch capacity). I was a bit frustrated with it using a 1/2 inch blade but when I went to a 3/4 blade it cut much better in a straight line. Both these blades have 3 or 4 teeth per inch.

I think I got the blades I'm using on my Jet from Blades.com. They are not great blades in my opinion but they were reasonably priced and work OK. I used a Wood Slicer on my old saw once, it was a good blade but more expensive.

So I think you should try as wide a blade as your saw can tension and one that is pretty coarse toothed, like 3 or 4 teeth per inch.

[Dave Sabo]

Did you re-adjust the fence for drift ?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This is not possible when cutting narrow strips because the guide will hit the top of the fence.

Make a low fence addition to use in conjunction with the factory fence. Then it is possible.

[Lee Schierer]

Did you re-adjust the fence for drift ?

If you adjust the saw so the miter slot is parallel with the blade and the per the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNdrkmx6ehI), the fence should be aligned with the miter slot and the miter slot is parallel to the line of cut. The band portion of the blade is centered on the upper wheel. By doing the test cuts you can then check the table alignment to the blade. This eliminates drift, so there is no need to adjust the angle of the fence.As the video says, you generally only have to do this once. We all tune up our table saws, yet we don't generally do that with band saws, but we should.

[John K Jordan]

In this order:
- Buy Mark Duginske’s book: https://smile.amazon.com/New-Complete-Guide-Band-Saws/dp/1565238419 Forget youtube - much is horribly confused.
- Start with a sharp blade.
- Set proper tension for that blade. Insufficient tension is a big problem, depending on how you use the saw. DON’T use the tension indicator on the saw - use a tension gauge. Beg, borrow, or buy one (from Iturra design) and your life will be more satisfying. Improper tension is the biggest problem, especially for thicker and harder wood. If a gauge is unavailable, set the indicator to the next higher mark, i.e. set to 3/4” for a 1/2” blade and hope for the beat. IMO Snodgrass is a charismatic salesman and shyster, there are several problems with his setup and tension advice. Read Duginske and/or Lonnie Bird instead.
- Adjust the wheels so the blade rides in the center of the BOTH tires. Many saws have adjustment on the back of the cabinet for this, behind the lower wheel. Read the manual.
- Set the the guides properly, upper and lower. The books will explain. Lower them close to the wood. Make sure the guide post is properly aligned vertically or you will be eternally frustrated.

Drift is the next big problem after tension and guides.
- Check for drift: back off the fence. Draw a straight line down the center of a rectangular board, say 6”x15” or so. 3/4” pine or plywood is perfect. Without using the fence, cut down the line freehand, turning the board as needed to stay on the line. STOP when half way down the line and turn the saw off, being careful to not move the board. (Maybe tape the board to the table to keep it from moving.) While holding the board tight to the table slide the fence up close. If the fence is not perfectly aligned with the board either adjust it or loosen the bolts under the table and rotate the table until the fence is aligned. There is usually enough shop in the bolt holes to allow this adjustment. If you started with the fence parallel to the miter slots rotating the table is the best solution.

I have tuned up a number of bandsaws with this method. I also like to make the wheels coplanar under tension but some people get by without doing this unless the saw is seriously out of whack.

Another thing that can cause drift is the teeth of the blade dull on one side and sharp on the other.

JKJ

[Mike King]

The blade is new and while there may be other blades that are superior, I find it hard to believe that the issue is your blade. Rather, it is far more likely that you have incorrectly set up the saw or that you are over-feeding the blade. Also, higher tension can help some blades cut more cleanly, but it isn't necessary to tension a bandsaw blade super tight to have it cut adequately. These are things I learned from Michael Fortune who is, arguably, one of the biggest users of bandsaws -- he has more than 8 in his shop that he uses extensively in his woodworking.

Loosen the guides so that they are not in proximity to the blade, then make the cut that Michael uses to align the table/fence to the blade (feed against the fence into the blade) and turn the saw off. Where is the back of the blade in the kerf? I'd be willing to bet that the back is NOT centered in the kerf. If it is centered in the kerf, the bandsaw will not pull or push the cut but will cut in a balanced fashion.

It could be that you do not have the guides set properly. They should not touch the blade -- rather there should be a gap about the thickness of a dollar bill between the guide and the blade. The thrust guide on the back of the blade also should not be touching the blade when the saw is running without load.

A bandsaw is a simple machine -- there's not that much that can go wrong. It does take a while to learn how to set it up properly, and there's lots of conflicting information on the internet that can have you making things worse. Realize there is a difference between bandsaws with crowned wheels (which, from what I read in the Rikon manual it appears your bandsaw has) and flat wheels (most if not all European saws), but you should be able to determine what type of saw you have by putting a straight edge across the surface of the wheel. If it is flat, the teeth go off of the front of the wheel, if it is crowned, the blade should be centered on the wheel.

If you still have problems, get someone from your local woodworking guild/club who has more experience with a bandsaw to come over and help you set it up.

BTW, I suffered from an improperly setup bandsaw for a couple of decades before I had the opportunity to take a two week workshop with Michael Fortune where I not only learned how to really set it up, but also all sorts of innovative ways to use a bandsaw. Now I have 2 and if I had more shop space, I'd probably acquire a third...

Mike

[Matthew Hills]

Is your tension quick-release set to draw tension?

It is pretty easy to damage a blade by running the teeth into the guides. This can cause the type of issue you're seeing. Getting some replacement blades is a good idea -- they wear much faster than you might be used to from using a carbide tablesaw blade.

How is the saw cutting if you aren't using a fence?
E.g., draw a straight line and try to cut to that.
You can get a feel for how the saw is cutting with your feed rate.
Do keep fingers and thumbs away from the blade, particularly at the end of the cut.

Matt

[Dave Sabo]

If you adjust the saw so the miter slot is parallel with the blade and the per the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNdrkmx6ehI), the fence should be aligned with the miter slot and the miter slot is parallel to the line of cut. The band portion of the blade is centered on the upper wheel. By doing the test cuts you can then check the table alignment to the blade. This eliminates drift, so there is no need to adjust the angle of the fence.As the video says, you generally only have to do this once. We all tune up our table saws, yet we don't generally do that with band saws, but we should.


Sorry Lee , but it does not eliminate drift. While it may work for you and Mr. Fortune and or the same blade - it IS NOT a new revelation or a good guarantee. Nor is it what I'd advise a first bandsaw owner.

Blades all have unique drift angles - especially if they're worn. A new 1/8" - 14tpi scrolling blade tracks differently than a 1/2" - 3tpi blade and neither has the same angle as a 1" - 1.3tpi carbide re-saw blade. As they wear the drift angle can change, sometimes significantly. This fact really isn't up for debate. Which makes a set it once and forget it notion on either a table or fence, a pipe dream. And what happens when you have get a blade who's drift exceeds the eccentricity of your table's mounting holes or slots ? Fences have a lot more wiggle room via the nature of their design. Funny that, huh ?

For a newbie, adjusting the fence is a heck of a lot easier and faster than messing with a table. I don't know who Mr. Fortune is - but i do know Lonnie Bird, Mark Duginske, and Louis Iturra are regarded as the experts when it comes to bandsaws. You know what they ALL have in common ?

That's right - their bandsaw bibles don't suggest , show, or advocate aligning the saw's table to the blade. Not a single one of them ! They align the FENCE to the blade's drift angle. Bird is famous for just using a straight scrap of wood clamped to the table at the drift angle. No tools required.

Furthermore , not all saws have a miter slot, and some that do (Italian ones) have a non-standard size which won't accept a U.S. miter gauge - making aligning it to anything in a semi- permanent fashion a waste of time. And wouldn't it be cheaper to manufacture a fence that doesn't adjust ? The table has to have mounting holes so over sizing them adds little or no cost. A non adjustable fence is much cheaper to manuf. and you know bean counters would love love nothing more than to trim out an unnecessary cost center. There's a reason why this hasn't become a "feature" on bandsaws ; be they made in America, China, Europe, or Asia.


A bandsaw is not a tablesaw, but tuning up your tools is sound advice. One will get more mileage out of making sure their wheels are co-planar and their guides adjusted properly than they will from aligning the table to a blade's drift. Even learning how to choose the correct blade for the job is going to yield more/better results than messing with the table. Rounding the back of the blade is a good practice. So is aligning and balancing the drive train. And before I spent time aligning my table I'd go chasing vibration in a minutely eccentric wheel. Of these, I'd only recommend a newbie study how to choose the correct blade and round the back of those blades until they've got some time in the saddle with a bandsaw.

But hey , if the new take seen first on the youtoob works for you - great. There are almost always several ways to skin a cat. I'll stick to the tried , true and proven method shown by the seasoned industry gurus and savants over an upstart who thinks he's smarter than everyone else . I'm also suggesting newcomers do the same.

YMMV

[Derek Cohen]

I changed out the 1” Woodmaster CT resaw blade the other day. Replaced it with a 1/2” 3 tpi blade for general work. It cut straight. No wandering, but one side of the cut was burned wood. I checked alignment and all the other set ups. I have been using this Hammer N4400 bandsaw for 10 years now and never experienced anything similar. I re-sharpened the blade … a touch better, but still burning one side. That said to me it was not tracking. Off the fence the results were much better. A closer look at the blade … it was an old Woodslicer … I dislike these blades as they wear quickly. Changed the blade for a bimetal of the same size (which I thought I had placed on the saw in the first place). All good now. It was the blade.

Change the blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John TenEyck]

Bandsaws are such simple machines yet so much misinformation continues to be passed as gospel. There is a tracking mechanism on every bandsaw I've seen. It's purpose is to adjust the attack angle of the blade so that it cuts straight as Lee or someone else showed in a graphic above. It doesn't matter if it's a skinny blade with lots of teeth or a wide one with few, that tracking mechanism is used to adjust it so it cuts straight. So, yes, the table can indeed be adjusted so that the miter slot is parallel with the blade, ONCE, as Mr. Fortune says, and all blades will cut parallel forevermore. No miter slot on your table? Fine, don't worry about it. Just set your fence parallel with the blade and leave it there, forevermore. Fences that adjust for drift are a means of companies to separate people from their money who haven't been able to adjust their saws to cut straight. The only time you would adjust for drift is when the blade is dull on one side or the set is different and needs to be changed but you don't have another blade. You do it as a short term band aide to get the job done, not a permanent solution.

Blade guides and even thrust bearings are of almost no need to cut straight if you have enough tension on the blade and it's been set up to cut properly. Saws that can't apply much tension benefit from guides but they still are secondary to proper alignment of the wheels and blade.

To suggest that narrow blades can't cut straight is just plain wrong. I have cut veneer at least 8" wide on a dinky 14" cast iron Delta with riser block with a 1/4", 4 tpi blade and a fence. It's slow but the cuts are straight. My larger 17" Grizzly makes cutting veneer fast and effortless. Such is the advantage of a wider blade and higher tension, but both saws can do it.

To those who have never been able to get their saw to cut straight and read here that others claim it's possible, rather than deny, rationalize, and criticize, maybe you should try some of the suggestions that have been offered. It is indeed possible.

John

[glenn bradley]

Sorry I am a bandsaw noob, so I already need a new blade although the current one is brand new? 

I'm sure you've figured out by now that bandsaws are one of the more voo-doo prone topics on the forums. I am not discounting anyone's comments, methods, preferences, etc. Here's my deal. I have the 10-305 which is the lessor, prior, model to yours. The 306 spawned from the popularity of the 305 (with good reason) and responded to the weaknesses of that model . . . primarily the fence IMHO.

So here is my machine sans fence since the included fence was near useless to me.
479597

I made a fence out of a milled piece of poplar. It is shaped to provide a tall and a short fence with a couple of grooves to accept a small clamp to hold it in place. There is a thread on this on here somewhere.
479596

I did not mill my material as I happened to find a piece of scrap that already had perpendicular faces. This is imortant so make use of your jointer (and planer).
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I eyeballed the fence for about 1/16". This is a 1/4" Timberwolf blade and IMHO it is not too narrow for use with a fence.
479599

With this setup I was able to make this cut without issue.
479601

Looks pretty consistent but let's check.
479600

At the beginning of the cut.
479603

Somewhere further along.
479602

Certainly having someone show you a good result does not in itself help you when you are having poor results. The point here is that I have done nothing magical to this machine. I did center a decent blade on the wheels which were reasonably coplaner out of the box. There is no crown to speak of on the tires so the setup went something like so:

Setup the machine per the manual.
Put on a decent blade and tension it with Suffolk's (Timberwolf) flutter method.
Align the miter slot with the cutting path (this is optional as a lot of folks don't use the miter slot on their bandsaw. I have not had to re-align it since the original 2018 setup. I just change blades and adjust guides.).
Eyeball the fence and clamp it down.
Feed the material evenly while maintaining control against the feed path surfaces (the table and fence in this case_.

Opposing positions on the value of bandsaw setup and use processes can lead to endless discussion. I can only tell you how I do it. Feel free to PM or ask in your thread if I can clarify anything that might help. :)

[Dave Sabo]

Bandsaws are such simple machines yet so much misinformation continues to be passed as gospel. There is a tracking mechanism on every bandsaw I've seen. It's purpose is to adjust the attack angle of the blade so that it cuts straight as Lee or someone else showed in a graphic above.

and this is one those :rolleyes:

Problem is John , not all subscribe to center tracking. While many/most do, some prefer coplanar tracking and don't use the crank to adjust the top wheel at an angle to position the blade. The wheels are aligned co-planar and left there. The blade is left to track where it tracks. That blade will have drift (or lead) and it will need to be compensated for. Which ain't gonna be accomplished with your tracking mech.


So, yes, the table can indeed be adjusted so that the miter slot is parallel with the blade, ONCE, as Mr. Fortune says, and all blades will cut parallel forevermore. No miter slot on your table? Fine, don't worry about it. Just set your fence parallel with the blade and leave it there, forevermore.

Another red herring. That will work for the blade you adjusted for - until it wears out or gets only one side of its teeth dulled. It'll work for the co-planar crowd, til they change the blade or it wears unevenly. Then it's not going to track the same. And when you change the blade - its drift will have to be assessed and adjusted for.



And which way is it ? Your "all saws have a tracking mechanism that adjust the attack angle of the blade so that it cuts straight " so Bobs you uncle ?

- or -

Adjust the table/miter slot or fence (which one ?) and leave it forever ? Which begs the question...............why would I need to adjust the tracking wheel if I could set the table or fence to the blade ?

That brings me back to a question I posed earlier......


Fences that adjust for drift are a means of companies to separate people from their money who haven't been able to adjust their saws to cut straight

Really ?

Seriously ?

So every saw from a $99 harbor freight to 5 figure Northfield and all those in between are all in cahoots overcharging their customers for adjustable fences ? Get real. And if you know this secret about only needing the tracking wheel to account for drift - don't you think they do too ? And if so, why don't they all save the manuf. cost dropping the adjustable fence for a fixed one and make even more money ? You'll note.............. not a single pioneer in this area. Are they're all ignorant of this new knowledge; or scared to implement it in the name of increased profits ? Get real.


And what say you of the bandsaw gurus I mentioned earlier that tell us adjusting the fence is fine and dandy ? Or luthier and educator Nick Engler that says adjust the fence too, not a one an done forever solution ?

Are they all ignorant, stubborn, albatrosses in league with the corp. adjustable fence cabal perpetuating a fallacy on bandsaw setup ?

Yea, right :eek:

[Edward Weber]

Bandsaws are such simple machines yet so much misinformation continues to be passed as gospel. There is a tracking mechanism on every bandsaw I've seen. It's purpose is to adjust the attack angle of the blade so that it cuts straight as Lee or someone else showed in a graphic above. It doesn't matter if it's a skinny blade with lots of teeth or a wide one with few, that tracking mechanism is used to adjust it so it cuts straight. So, yes, the table can indeed be adjusted so that the miter slot is parallel with the blade, ONCE, as Mr. Fortune says, and all blades will cut parallel forevermore. No miter slot on your table? Fine, don't worry about it. Just set your fence parallel with the blade and leave it there, forevermore. Fences that adjust for drift are a means of companies to separate people from their money who haven't been able to adjust their saws to cut straight. The only time you would adjust for drift is when the blade is dull on one side or the set is different and needs to be changed but you don't have another blade. You do it as a short term band aide to get the job done, not a permanent solution.

Blade guides and even thrust bearings are of almost no need to cut straight if you have enough tension on the blade and it's been set up to cut properly. Saws that can't apply much tension benefit from guides but they still are secondary to proper alignment of the wheels and blade.

To suggest that narrow blades can't cut straight is just plain wrong. I have cut veneer at least 8" wide on a dinky 14" cast iron Delta with riser block with a 1/4", 4 tpi blade and a fence. It's slow but the cuts are straight. My larger 17" Grizzly makes cutting veneer fast and effortless. Such is the advantage of a wider blade and higher tension, but both saws can do it.

To those who have never been able to get their saw to cut straight and read here that others claim it's possible, rather than deny, rationalize, and criticize, maybe you should try some of the suggestions that have been offered. It is indeed possible.

John


This needs to be repeated often and loudly.
Thank you for spelling it out John.
I have been trying to convey the same message for the past 20 years but bad habits run deep.

I am still perplexed as to why people insist on adjusting the parts that should be fixed, like the table and fence and ignore the part that is designed to be adjusted. (hint, it's the tracking)
The entire myth of the blade being exactly in the center of the tire is bordering on ludicrous, especially when everyone views the center at the 3 o'clock position, where the blade is leaving the wheel, not at 12 o'clock, which is the center of the contact.

[Forrest Gon]

Just providing an update, I bought a new blade and now it cuts straight pretty well.

Thanks everyone for the great input, I appreciate it!

[John TenEyck]

Yes, seriously. There are solutions for problems that don't exist at every turn. Adjustable bandsaw fences being just one. Sort of like the new driver, or putter, or ball that will take 8 strokes off your score.

Why would bandsaws have a tracking adjustment if none were needed? No where have I ever read to just let the blade ride where it wants to.

You adjust the blade to cut straight with every blade change. That is what allows you to leave the table in one spot, forever, along with the fence. Seems like a simple and straight forward concept to me. Yes, if the blade gets dull on one side it won't cut straight anymore. That's no different if the fence originally was set parallel with the miter slot or the fence was adjusted for drift when the blade was new. When it gets dull things change. And that's when you change the blade.

Everything I have discussed here is covered in the manual to my Grizzly G0636X bandsaw. For some reason they think it's possible for their saw to cut straight. For some reason they say you should adjust the tracking with each blade change. For some reason, they say to align the table with the blade during initial setup. For some reason they say to align the fence parallel with the miter slot. For some reason they say it's OK to adjust the fence for drift when the blade is dull but you don't have another and just have to finish the job. For some reason they say the wheels need to be coplaner in order for the saw to cut straight. What reason could it be? Maybe because it works. It does for me.

Believe what you want, it makes no difference to me. But I hope others reading this thread will see that it is possible to set up a bandsaw to cut straight, and that it's a simple, straight forward process.

There's nothing more to be said.

John

[Alan Schwabacher]

If you have a sharp blade, it will cut straight even if you approach at a slight angle. Fortune argues that it’s not worth it to keep using a dull blade, and that’s why setting the tracking to cut parallel to the miter slot works well. All the other stuff about lead angles is so people can cut with dulling blades. Notice the OP fixed the problem with a new blade.

[Edward Weber]

I respectfully disagree.
There is nothing to suggest that a new blade cuts straight, regardless of angle
A blade cuts straight if it is adjusted to do so. Just being new and sharp does not automatically cure all other alignment issues.

While a new blade helped the OP, cutting "pretty well" is not the same as perfectly straight.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

If you think about it, where the blade is in relation to the crown of the tire affects the angle of the blade to the wood.

When I put a new blade on my saw I take a hunk of plywood and slice off a quarter inch strip. If the cut angles to the right I adjust the tracking one way. Cut another slice. If it cuts less to the right, adjust the tracking a little more in that direction. If it cuts more to the left, I adjust it the other way. I repeat, adjusting the tracking appropriately until I get consistent straight cuts. Yes, I try to imagine how moving the blade to the left or right of the crown changes the angle of the cut, but it's easier to look at the result and adjust accordingly. This let's me dial in the cut so the saw cuts straight every time until I change the blade. The whole process takes less than 10 minutes.

Cliff

[Alan Schwabacher]

There is nothing to suggest that a new blade cuts straight, regardless of angle


That is not what I meant to suggest. The angle needs to be pretty close for the sharp blade to make the difference.

New is very different from sharp.

[andy bessette]

...There's nothing more to be said.

John

For those who still don't understand that, new or used, sharp or dull:

a) wide blades are for cutting straight
and
b) narrow blades are for cutting curves

it is pointless to spend any more time trying to convince them.

Over and out. :)

[glenn bradley]

Just providing an update, I bought a new blade and now it cuts straight pretty well.

Thanks everyone for the great input, I appreciate it!

Great. Thanks for circling back.

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes, seriously. There are solutions for problems that don't exist at every turn. Adjustable bandsaw fences being just one. Sort of like the new driver, or putter, or ball that will take 8 strokes off your score.

Why would bandsaws have a tracking adjustment if none were needed? No where have I ever read to just let the blade ride where it wants to.

You adjust the blade to cut straight with every blade change. That is what allows you to leave the table in one spot, forever, along with the fence. Seems like a simple and straight forward concept to me. Yes, if the blade gets dull on one side it won't cut straight anymore. That's no different if the fence originally was set parallel with the miter slot or the fence was adjusted for drift when the blade was new. When it gets dull things change. And that's when you change the blade.

Everything I have discussed here is covered in the manual to my Grizzly G0636X bandsaw. For some reason they think it's possible for their saw to cut straight. For some reason they say you should adjust the tracking with each blade change. For some reason, they say to align the table with the blade during initial setup. For some reason they say to align the fence parallel with the miter slot. For some reason they say it's OK to adjust the fence for drift when the blade is dull but you don't have another and just have to finish the job. For some reason they say the wheels need to be coplaner in order for the saw to cut straight. What reason could it be? Maybe because it works. It does for me.

Believe what you want, it makes no difference to me. But I hope others reading this thread will see that it is possible to set up a bandsaw to cut straight, and that it's a simple, straight forward process.

There's nothing more to be said.

John

Agreed, in fact many saws have locating dowels for the table so alignment is built in.

The blade will cut parallel to the fence and the mitre slot until the blade needs replacing.

This method of alignment is crucial for ripping, cutting tenons or bridle joints or cross cutting.

People are always amazed when I hold band saw courses how accurate and repeatable a good saw is.

If I had to realign my sawmill every time I changed blades it would be heading for the scrap dealer…..Rod

[Randy Heinemann]

I agree with the above - wider blade, maybe not completely correct setup, maybe a better new blade. However, the Rikon model number you gave indicates a 10" bandsaw with a 1/2 HPmotor, While I'm sure you can resaw and/or rip with this saw, I think it's safe to say it has its limitations. One would be how fast you feed the wood in combination with the thickness being ripped, the wood your ripping, and, for resawing, if the board is near the saw's capacity. I used to own a 12" bandsaw with a 1/2 HP motor and resawing, even ripping, was a challenge especially with wider or thicker or harder wood boards. You might check this video from Michael Fortune, which I believe addresses your problem, to see if any of his setup process solves your problem:https://youtu.be/vNdrkmx6ehI

[Mike King]

Agreed, in fact many saws have locating dowels for the table so alignment is built in.

The blade will cut parallel to the fence and the mitre slot until the blade needs replacing.

This method of alignment is crucial for ripping, cutting tenons or bridle joints or cross cutting.

People are always amazed when I hold band saw courses how accurate and repeatable a good saw is.

If I had to realign my sawmill every time I changed blades it would be heading for the scrap dealer…..Rod

Why do you want the fence parallel to the miter slot and the table aligned to the blade? Because you can use the fence and the miterslot to build all sorts of jigs to do incredible things with the bandsaw. Or you can buy a fence with drift adjustment or align the fence to the blade and use it for ripping and resawing, likely hamstringing the capabilities of the tool.

Watch Michael Fortune with all of his jigs and you will see how to use a bandsaw in ways that create productivity and repeatability in your work.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-machines/webinar-bandsaw-jigs-and-fixtures-with-michael-fortune

Mike

[Thomas McCurnin]

Agree with Mike. A properly tuned band saw will not need any drift compensation. Most drift is either table relate (loosen bolts under the trunion, Michael Fortune's video covers this well, where the viewer watches the blade pull the wood away from the fence on an improperly adjusted table) or is related to the where the blade runs on the upper tire (forward of center, it will drift right, rear of center, it will drift left). This is all covered with a great, clear demonstration, Tuning a Bandsaw for the Anally Retentive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DzbJYIPPNE

[Randy Heinemann]

Here is a link to a recent (2 weeks old) livestream on YouTube from Fine Woodworking using Michael Fortune's methods for correcting problems on a bandsaw; really essentially setup. It follows an article he did in Fine Woodworking (Issue #173). I did not watch all of it as it is over an hour long. I am assuming that his methods differ from Alex Snodgrass's methods, but both work. Neither would use them if they didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_pyuzOhzd4

[Thomas McCurnin]

I watched a portion of the video linked by Randy, at about 51m, and he confirms that drift like the OP saw happening, occurs only when the back of the blade is askew and touches the sides of the kerf, either due to a misaligned table or the blade being un-centered along the top of the top tire. This is exactly what Fortune, Snodgrass and the anally retentive video I previously linked. Assuming one's blades are properly aligned and the table is properly set, there is no inherent drift.

[Edward Weber]

There are always two things to consider, the saw and the blade.
I don't agree with you that a properly tuned saw needs no drift compensation. This is only true if all blades are the same, perfect and always run true.
They are not and therefore must be tuned (adjusted) to track properly. This is why bandsaws have a built in, easily accessible alignment/tracking feature.
Tune your saw, get everything properly aligned but when you change from one blade to another you may still (and should IMO) check the alignment with the built in tracking adjustment, that's what it's there for. It is not simply a one and done device for getting your blade to run in the center of the wheel.

I feel too many people don't quite grasp what the tracking does and why it's there. That's Just my opion

[Thomas McCurnin]

I agree with Edward and every saw needs to blade needs to be adjusted to track. But the point of the numerous videos is that a properly adjusted saw table and blade should not per se have any drift. Yes, if you grab the saw and move it around the shop by its two so-called "front handles," it is likely that the table will go out of whack. And yes, if you change blades, those new blades have to be adjusted to track correctly on the upper tire.


479847

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I learned some valuable information from it.

Mike