Options for Harvey Table Saw?

[Pat Germain]

I've been away from woodworking for about ten years while I was restoring a car. It was something wanted to do since I was a kid and I finally got it done.

Now I want to get back into woodworking and I will need a new table saw. I had been using a hot-rodded Craftsman contractor saw. It got the job done, but I'm ready for something more spiffy. I've been looking at the Harvey table saws and I'm very interested. I saw a review here by a woman who recently bought a Harvey saw and I like what she had to say.

When looking at the Harvey saws online, I see they have many options for sizes and power levels. So...

- What would you folks recommend for saw horsepower? I think horsepower ratings for air compressors are mostly hype, but I'm not sure about table saw horsepower

- Do you think the router table option would be worthwhile? I really like using my table saw as a router table. (Yes, I'm a David Marks fan.)

- I would like the saw to be mobile, but I'm not sure if the router extension would negate that

- Any other suggestions?

I'm willing to spend money on options that would be a good value, but I don't want to pony up for things I likely won't use or that won't work well.

Thanks!

[Andrew More]

Buy the SawStop and keep your fingers, simple as that. If people who have been operating table saws for decades like Jimmy Diresta can hurt themselves, you're unlikely to be any different.

[Pat Germain]

Always nice to hear from the SawStop contingent.

[Dave Roock]

Both the 2hp & 3hp Harvey table saws are at excellent prices - you managed to save your fingers using that hot rodded Craftsman, you will be fine on a Harvey saw. Don't let the BIG FEAR scam of Sawstop bring you down. All saw blades should be treated with respect, keeping your fingers away should be zero problem.

[Lisa Starr]

Depending on the type of woodworking you'll be doing, I think a 3 HP saw is the sweet spot. My rodded Craftsman had 1.5 on it and it would bog down ripping. I then had a 3 HP Grizzly Cabinet Saw and never had a problem with cuts in solid hardwoods. I now have a 3 HP Slider, and it also has no problems with bog. I think it is more important to keep sharp, quality, purpose-specific blades in your arsenal than have a ton of HP.

If you like having a router table in your saw, by all means go with the option from Harvey. I've had them both ways and prefer a separate router table, but that's just my own preference.

[Michelle Rich]

you don't say what you are planning on doing . Large outdoor projects with 4x4's? Kumiko? Small boxes? Hard to answer without that info. But I have a 2hsp. and with good blades, I can do most anything . I like my router table on my saw, because i use my fence for both. But on the harvey you have to use 2 fences. I'd find that inconvenient. I also have a router table.

[Pat Germain]

Good information. Thank you.

My projects will be over a very wide range; small band saw boxes, indoor furniture and even some outdoor projects for the yard.

[Dave Sweeney]

Always nice to hear from the SawStop contingent.

Funny how they always seem to pop up with an answer to a question that wasn't asked isn't it?

[Pat Germain]

It's all good. I haven't ruled out a SawStop, but right now I'm looking for information about the Harvey. :)

[Doug Colombo]

I bought the 4hp model, but the 3hp was not available at that time. I had a 3hp Unisaw and had no issues at all with the power. As we have been in the process of building a new house, my saw is still crated at the builders warehouse so I can’t comment on how it is, but from looking at it on line and reviews, I am very excited to get it.

For a mobile base, I bought a Shop Fox one. It offers an extension for the side table so I figure if I find I need it at least I have the option available. Here is a link to it. https://www.grizzly.com/products/shop-fox-heavy-duty-mobile-base/d2057a

As to Saw Stop, I did look at them but to match the specs of the Harvey (table depth and distance from the front of the table to front of blade for example) you need to go to the SS Industrial version vs SS Professional.

Doug

[Michelle Rich]

I think most folks will tell you 3hsp. That has been the standard for years and years. For 35 yrs or so I used a delta contractor and made aliving with it. When I thought I needed a new saw, I went with the 2 hsp harvey, as the intro prices were so wonderful. I enjoy my harvey. The delta contractor had a router table on it and a jointech fence, so I could use just one fence for cutting wood and using the router. I have always shied away from using the 2 fence idea as one has to keep taking the router fence off and keep putting it back on.

[Pat Germain]

I think most folks will tell you 3hsp. That has been the standard for years and years. For 35 yrs or so I used a delta contractor and made aliving with it. When I thought I needed a new saw, I went with the 2 hsp harvey, as the intro prices were so wonderful. I enjoy my harvey. The delta contractor had a router table on it and a jointech fence, so I could use just one fence for cutting wood and using the router. I have always shied away from using the 2 fence idea as one has to keep taking the router fence off and keep putting it back on.

Thank you. I think I will look for a 3 horsepower cabinet saw. As I mentioned above, I am also considering a SawStop.

[Ron Selzer]

I personally prefer more power in a table saw. Started out with a 1 hp, resin top, arbor moving table saw, then a Delta contractors saw, now have a SawStop ICS 5hp, 36" fence. Have used a Powermatic 5hp at one job and a 3hp Delta Unisaw.
I find with more power less binding of the saw blade and smoother cutting, MY PERSONAL FEELINGS.
Don't like or use router tables so no recommendations there.
Recommend buying all the power you can afford, along with a nice cast iron top that is flat, sent a Jet contractors saw back in 1986 due to over 20 faults with it. Had to argue with the distributor as shop that sold it brand new to me tried to wash hands until credit card company got involved. Bought a Jet jointer a year later AFTER looking it over closely from another seller that was good quality and ran it for 32yrs.
Never had a chance to examine a Harvey saw but have heard good things about it.
Consider a sliding table saw, never used one or even heard of one until I came here. Now I would like to have one, however would need to add an addition to the house basement to have enough space for one.
Good luck, take your time and keep your mind open.
Ron

[Jim Becker]

Pat, for most folks, the 3hp machine pretty much covers everything they likely would do, regardless of color/label. Adequate power for common thicker materials is there and most of the time, it will be "loafing" along while cutting.

[Pat Germain]

On a whim, I did some searching online for used table saws. I'm surprised to see a few 230V Delta Unisaws in very good shape for $1500-$1800. When I got into woodworking in the mid 1990s, the Delta Unisaw was the thing to have. Is this no longer the case?

[John Kananis]

Pat, my late 90's unisaw is alive, kicking and not going anywhere any time soon. It does everything you could ask of any cabinet saw.

That said, lots of folks have moved to sawstop for the added safety and delta (unfortunately) has largely abandoned their client-base so they're not attracting a lot of new customers. There's lots of options nowadays though and sliders are freaking awesome if you have the room for one.

[Pat Germain]

Pat, my late 90's unisaw is alive, kicking and not going anywhere any time soon. It does everything you could ask of any cabinet saw.

That said, lots of folks have moved to sawstop for the added safety and delta (unfortunately) has largely abandoned their client-base so they're not attracting a lot of new customers. There's lots of options nowadays though and sliders are freaking awesome if you have the room for one.

Interesting. I have a Delta dust collector, drill press and lunchbox planer. I have noticed I don't see those anymore. Apparently, Delta went away with The New Yankee Workshop. Further reading reveals Delta management flew the brand into the ground. It appears if I bought a Unisaw I would likely have trouble getting parts support these days.

I see Harvey and SawStop both have slider options. I will keep a slider in mind as a future upgrade.

[Andrew More]

Seems I touched a nerve, which was not my intention. OP stated that they had been away for about 10 years, and it was unclear if they understood their options, I was just trying to be helpful. Harvey seems to make fine machines, I'm sure their table saw will be great. FWIW, the Power Tool Institute has stated that with the induction of the UL 987 safety standard there have been no reported blade contact injuries on a table with the new guard installed. The massive caveat here being with the new guard installed.

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[Pat Germain]

Seems I touched a nerve, which was not my intention. OP stated that they had been away for about 10 years, and it was unclear if they understood their options, I was just trying to be helpful. Harvey seems to make fine machines, I'm sure their table saw will be great. FWIW, the Power Tool Institute has stated that with the induction of the UL 987 safety standard there have been no reported blade contact injuries on a table with the new guard installed. The massive caveat here being with the new guard installed.

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No problem at all, Andrew. It's just a running gag that SawStop owners like to recommend their saws. As I mentioned, I'm also considering a SawStop. I appreciate your concern for my safety.

[Andrew More]

Fair enough. FWIW, I've love for there to be another saw with the same feature, but since Bosch lost the lawsuit that doesn't seem likely to happen for another couple of years. Which is sad, because the Bosch was the superior mechanism, IMHO.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Pat,

Last Fall I switched from a 3hp cabinet saw to a Euro slider.

A few observations:

1. The footprint of the slider is slightly less than that of my cabinet saw. Both scenarios provide 48+ inches right of the blade;
2. The slider allows the user to safely perform operations that are either difficult or dangerous on a cabinet saw, even with a Sawstop - e.g. no kickback when using the carriage instead of the rip fence to process a piece of wood. Squaring a panel or large piece is very easy on a slider.
3. The addition of the outrigger augments the footprint of the machine but it usually not a problem since the piece being processed is often of equal or greater width.
4. The 3hp on my cabinet saw was adequate for my needs (hobbyist).
5. If buying new, a Euro slider will be more expensive than most cabinet saws. The price difference is much smaller when comparing with a Sawstop. Although not frequent there are occasionally some good used machines offered on the market.

These few lines are intended to provide you with some additional data points for your analysis.

Regards,

Jacques

[Andrew More]

1. The footprint of the slider is slightly less than that of my cabinet saw. Both scenarios provide 48+ inches right of the blade;

Could you quantify this a bit? Exactly how big is the foot print and which slider are you using?

[Pat Germain]

Pat,

Last Fall I switched from a 3hp cabinet saw to a Euro slider.

A few observations:

1. The footprint of the slider is slightly less than that of my cabinet saw. Both scenarios provide 48+ inches right of the blade;
2. The slider allows the user to safely perform operations that are either difficult or dangerous on a cabinet saw, even with a Sawstop - e.g. no kickback when using the carriage instead of the rip fence to process a piece of wood. Squaring a panel or large piece is very easy on a slider.
3. The addition of the outrigger augments the footprint of the machine but it usually not a problem since the piece being processed is often of equal or greater width.
4. The 3hp on my cabinet saw was adequate for my needs (hobbyist).
5. If buying new, a Euro slider will be more expensive than most cabinet saws. The price difference is much smaller when comparing with a Sawstop. Although not frequent there are occasionally some good used machines offered on the market.

These few lines are intended to provide you with some additional data points for your analysis.

Regards,

Jacques

Interesting. I had not considered a European slider. I will look into this. I'm not familiar with those saws. Can you tell us what brand and model saw you are using?

Thanks!

[Jacques Gagnon]

Andrew / Pat,

As my shop is a single car garage (14x20) I have chosen to go with a Hammer B3 (this is the saw/spindle unit that has the same size as the K3 saw) with a 2000mm carriage (80 inches). It replaced a General International 3hp cabinet saw. The distance from the wall to the left side of the B3/K3 is a few inches less than what it was with the GI cabinet saw.

The front-to-back distance is somewhat similar. I had built a cross-cut sled for the cabinet saw and had added a « support arm » (piece of oak bolted to the left wing) on the infeed side to support the sled when pulled fully back. This support arm was about the same length as the equivalent steel beam on my Hammer.

The beam extends roughly another foot at the back (outfeed) of the B3/K3. If one chose the shorter configuration (Rod Sheridan and Derek Cohen have done so, among others) the front-to-back distance of the slider then becomes similar to that of a cabinet saw.

As mentioned earlier, the total footprint increases when the outrigger is installed, but it is only on the saw when needed, at which point one needs the space to move the piece being cut anyway.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if more clarifications/information is needed.

J.

[Robyn Horton]

Pat Check out the Classified ads on Sawmill Creek. Ian Guy has a Hammer K3 for Sale. I also have the Hammer K3 Winner with the comfort package but on mine like Rod's saw I opted for the 31 1/2" rip capacity and have not missed the larger 48" 1 bit. This saw does take up less space than my General International saw that it replaced. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?297997-Hammer-K3-Winner-Sliding-Table-Saw-48-quot-slider-(Kansas-City)

[Jacques Gagnon]

Pat,

Robyn has provided you with an option worth serious consideration.

J.

[Leigh Betsch]

One thing I don't think folks realize is that the outfeed table on a slider "slides" out of the way when you need the space, unlike the a fixed outfield table on a normal cabinet saw. You must still allocate the floor space for the wagon to stroke but when the wagon is pulled back the space is open for a walkway.

[Greg Quenneville]

Plus the outrigger and long fence can be quickly detached when not doing a sheet goods project. And a slider can be fitted with a shop made Fritz & Franz jig to allow safe cuts of small pieces.

My first saw was a slider, then we moved, got a cabinet saw and hated it. I now have another slider and very happy. (80” slider, but I would recommend longer if you have the room. If not, the shorter sliders are still much better than a cabinet saw + sled)

[Pat Germain]

Pat Check out the Classified ads on Sawmill Creek. Ian Guy has a Hammer K3 for Sale. I also have the Hammer K3 Winner with the comfort package but on mine like Rod's saw I opted for the 31 1/2" rip capacity and have not missed the larger 48" 1 bit. This saw does take up less space than my General International saw that it replaced. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?297997-Hammer-K3-Winner-Sliding-Table-Saw-48-quot-slider-(Kansas-City)

Wow, that's a really spiffy saw. Not sure how I'd get it from Kansas City to Colorado Springs. I expect shipping would be quite punishing.

[Lisa Starr]

Pat, I'm a recent convert. I sold my 3 HP cabinet saw that had rails that allowed a 50" cut to the right of the blade. It was replaced with a MiniMax SC2C with 48" right of the blade. I love the saw and do not miss the cabinet saw even though I had many, many jigs and fixtures that worked great. I would prefer a smaller distance right of the blade and will probably address cutting the table down this winter. The slider allows me to make so many different types of cuts both quickly and, more importantly, safely. If you can swing the cost, I would take a look at a short stroke slider.

[Jim Becker]

I didn't mention a slider earlier because of the specific question asked in the OP by the OP :) but since that's been broached...yea, that would be and is my personal preference, too. I'm truly "hating" being back on a c North American style cabinet saw in my temporary shop right now...I find it so limiting, particularly for crosscutting...and can't wait to get back on a slider once my shop building is up and ready. A short stroke slider has a similar footprint to a cabinet saw, especially once extra outfeed support, etc., is added to the latter. I love the precision and have adapted my workflow and habits over the years to better leverage a slider, too. I also find the format to be inherently safer than a cabinet saw since for many operations, no hands are anywhere near the blade.

[Pat Germain]

I didn't mention a slider earlier because of the specific question asked in the OP by the OP :) but since that's been broached...yea, that would be and is my personal preference, too. I'm truly "hating" being back on a c North American style cabinet saw in my temporary shop right now...I find it so limiting, particularly for crosscutting...and can't wait to get back on a slider once my shop building is up and ready. A short stroke slider has a similar footprint to a cabinet saw, especially once extra outfeed support, etc., is added to the latter. I love the precision and have adapted my workflow and habits over the years to better leverage a slider, too. I also find the format to be inherently safer than a cabinet saw since for many operations, no hands are anywhere near the blade.

Thanks, Jim.

I think I would like using a sliding table saw. But I really need my tools to be mobile and I don't think that will work with a slider.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Pat,

A short stroke slider is not more difficult to move around than a cabinet saw since it rests on the base, no extra post. People use either a three-point mobility kit or a four-wheeled platform/base. Larger units with longer carriage are not as easily moved.

J.

[Michael Schuch]

The standard height of most table saws are kind of too low for a router table in my opinion. Working on a router table that is the height of a table saw top is quite literally a pain in the back.

I don't know anything about Harvey tools but I would definitely recommend going for a 3hp. Kickbacks seem like they are more likely to happen on an underpowered saw. The blade slows and grabs the wood then kicks it back. A more powerful saw feels like it is powering through the cut instead of slowing and grabbing the board. This is just what I have noticed, no scientific backing to my observations.

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Short stroke sliding table saws can be made portable. I have 6 casters rated at 900lbs each. It does take a heck of a big push to get this much mass moving though!

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Jim.

I think I would like using a sliding table saw. But I really need my tools to be mobile and I don't think that will work with a slider.
Mobility is not an issue for most short stroke sliders.

[Leigh Betsch]

$300 pallet jack and I can move my 8 1/2 slider just as easy as anything on built in casters.