Anyone have experience with Sheds Unlimited?

[Roger Feeley]

We are looking into building a 3 car garage with living space above.
https://shedsunlimited.net/garages/legacy-workshop-three-car-garage/

These folks will manufacture modules and erect the shell. Then it’s up to us to finish it.

[Bill Dufour]

That kind of outfit shipping can be a killer. So try to find a brand close to your build site.
Bill D

[Roger Feeley]

This is a pretty big building. The price includes assembly to a weather tight structure so delivery is baked in. I would love to know if any Creekers have any experience with this particular company.

Another big question is whether we would be saving any money. They provide us with a roughed in shell. It’s up to us to provide the foundation and run water, electrical and sewer. Then we have to put in HVAC, interior walls, cabinets and such. That stuff adds up.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I don't have any experience with that company. When you say saving money, relative to what? I'm sure if you did the work yourself it could be done for much less, but I don't know how it would compare to having a local builder put a building of that size up.

[Jim Koepke]

And don't forget the cost of permits. In some localities they can be a big chunk of the cost of building.

You might ask around your community to see if anyone else has a unit built by this company.

jtk

[Roger Feeley]

I don't have any experience with that company. When you say saving money, relative to what? I'm sure if you did the work yourself it could be done for much less, but I don't know how it would compare to having a local builder put a building of that size up.
Relative to hiring a builder. This is a small project compared to other projects so lots of builders don’t want to mess with it.

[Bill Dufour]

Neighbor across the street built a two car garage. He priced the lumber, shingles etc about three years ago as prices started to rise. He contracted out the concrete and rough in wiring to a panel. Tough shed delivered and assembled the rough shell with a shingle roof for about 1,500 less then he would have paid for identical materials with his labor.
They buy lumber by the truckload and get wholesale prices. I have heard it is often cheaper to have insulation blown in by a company then to buy it at the box store.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

I communicated with two such firms including the one you ask about for alternatives for my shop building project. While they were more money than the post-frame design I selected, they were not unreasonable...but the costs are far higher than they used to be for obvious reasons. You are correct that these buildings are built-in place from pre-assembled panels. That makes them less expensive than on-site stick building in many cases and they go up very fast. Keep in mind that "you" are responsibility for site prep including concrete unless you specifically contract with them to obtain those services which they will typically subcontract and mark up.

[Brian Elfert]

I wonder how I would find someone like that here in the Minneapolis area? I am planning a 44x60 garage.

[Jim Becker]

I wonder how I would find someone like that here in the Minneapolis area? I am planning a 44x60 garage.
Tough Shed is somewhat nationwide as one example.

[Roger Feeley]

So let’s say that I go with sheds unlimited for the weather tight shell. I still have to find people to do hvac, plumbing, electrical, inside framing………. I’m not a carpenter and I don’t want to be. Do you think a general contractor would be willing to finish it for me?

[Brian Elfert]

So let’s say that I go with sheds unlimited for the weather tight shell. I still have to find people to do hvac, plumbing, electrical, inside framing………. I’m not a carpenter and I don’t want to be. Do you think a general contractor would be willing to finish it for me?

If you want a GC to oversee the building process I might have the GC contract with Sheds Unlimited as a subcontractor. It sounds like a really nice building if you will have it fully finished with plumbing and HVAC. My building is going to be so basic I don't know if I can even afford a concrete slab initially.

[Zachary Hoyt]

It may be different where you are, but here it is hard to hire people to do things, they are all busy already. I didn't want to try to be a mason to repair the basement wall or an electrician to install the new service, but it was that or go without. I am learning to do new things, which is always good if not always entirely fun.

[Jim Becker]

So let’s say that I go with sheds unlimited for the weather tight shell. I still have to find people to do hvac, plumbing, electrical, inside framing………. I’m not a carpenter and I don’t want to be. Do you think a general contractor would be willing to finish it for me?
That's going to be a big "maybe" with a side of "difficult", I suspect. Everyone is slammed right now, both due to activity, but also because of lack of available labor.

[Tom Bender]

Especially in the current climate it can take weeks for even a good subcontractor to fit you into his schedule. Managing that is the responsibility of a GC. Finding the right one is really important. He will have subs that will respond and backup subs if needed. Take your plans to the building department and ask who might be interested in it. They should know and they want your project to go well. Just be cautious as they may have vested interests. Also ask companies like sheds unlimited and tough shed for suggestions. Follow up with customers. Once you have the right GC on board most of your work is done. This will be an expensive year to build. If you are the GC these next few will be challenging years to build.

[Brian Elfert]

Is the Tough Sheds everyone is referring to really Tuff Sheds? It appears they don't panelize anything near as large as what I want to build. I am checking with a local company I found.

[Jim Becker]

Is the Tough Sheds everyone is referring to really Tuff Sheds? It appears they don't panelize anything near as large as what I want to build. I am checking with a local company I found.

They can go quite large and will do custom sizes. You have to contact them for details. Community member Glenn Bradley has one (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?290659-A-Building-Appears&highlight=Tough+Shed)

[Brian Elfert]

They can go quite large and will do custom sizes. You have to contact them for details. Community member Glenn Bradley has one (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?290659-A-Building-Appears&highlight=Tough+Shed)

I saw something about buildings being limited to 40 feet. I am planning on 44x60x16. The 16 is to store a large motorhome.

[Jim Becker]

I saw something about buildings being limited to 40 feet. I am planning on 44x60x16. The 16 is to store a large motorhome.
For a building of that size and height, Post Frame is your friend...much more cost effective, easier to put up and stronger relative to the height of the open space. Even my smaller building decision was more cost effective with post frame (24x36x10) and about $12K less than a panelized system not including additional concrete costs.

[Brian Elfert]

For a building of that size and height, Post Frame is your friend...much more cost effective, easier to put up and stronger relative to the height of the open space. Even my smaller building decision was more cost effective with post frame (24x36x10) and about $12K less than a panelized system not including additional concrete costs.

City doesn’t allow post frame construction unless I have five or more acres. I have three acres. The real issue with post frame I think is the vertical steel siding. I have to have siding and roofing that matches my house. Everyone I talked to says post frame is going to cost as much as stick frame with the changes needed to install lap siding.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

It's not Sheds Unlimited but a client just bought a shed from a local "Amish" source. It has lots of particle board. Siding, Flooring, and Sheeting all made from the cheapest products available.
Portable Buildings & Sheds | Locations | Columbia, MO (https://www.classicbuildingsales.com/locations/columbia/)

[Jim Becker]

City doesn’t allow post frame construction unless I have five or more acres. I have three acres. The real issue with post frame I think is the vertical steel siding. I have to have siding and roofing that matches my house. Everyone I talked to says post frame is going to cost as much as stick frame with the changes needed to install lap siding.

That's short sighted on their part and very sad. Also, post frame structures are not limited to metal siding and roofing. They can be finished with whatever materials you want while retaining the key benefits of big, high, open spaces when they are needed without excessive engineering for weight bearing, etc. That's really the crux of what you are facing for what you want...you need height and a big open space. Stick framed walls present challenges for that engineering wise that are uber-simple with post frame.

But yes, when you go to sheathing and other siding materials, the cost of materials does escalate to where there is more parity in cost. But the post frame, if done correctly, may be stronger and it's certainly more adaptable to design changes, such as moving doors and windows around as well as super insulating.

[Brian Elfert]

That's short sighted on their part and very sad. Also, post frame structures are not limited to metal siding and roofing. They can be finished with whatever materials you want while retaining the key benefits of big, high, open spaces when they are needed without excessive engineering for weight bearing, etc. That's really the crux of what you are facing for what you want...you need height and a big open space. Stick framed walls present challenges for that engineering wise that are uber-simple with post frame.

But yes, when you go to sheathing and other siding materials, the cost of materials does escalate to where there is more parity in cost. But the post frame, if done correctly, may be stronger and it's certainly more adaptable to design changes, such as moving doors and windows around as well as super insulating.

I think if I went to the city and proposed pole construction, but with sheathing and siding to match my house I suspect they would approve it. The problem is you're not saving any money by the time you add all the blocking and such to do lap siding on top of sheathing. The lap siding needs to be nailed to studs every 16". You're basically building a stick built wall in between every post. I would need full sheathing on the roof so that I could match the roof on house. A standard pole building has trusses eight to ten feet apart supported by poles. The weight of a full sheathed roof especially if you do asphalt shingles requires trusses two feet on center. There isn't a pole every two feet to support the weight.

Common roof trusses will span 44 feet with 2x6 or 2x8 walls depending on the height of the sidewalls. I am running into an issue of needing engineering with sidewalls over 12 feet. I had the building engineered by a local engineer for less than $1,000, but the extra materials and such to build to the engineered plans would add $10,000 to the cost easily.

[Jim Becker]

The way it's done is that sheathing is applied to the horizontal girts before your siding goes on. It's not necessary to build stud walls between the posts. You can sheath with ply, osb, ZipSystem/Weatherlogic, etc. Lap siding can be nailed to these with no issues if the correct fasteners are used. Similarly, up on the roof it's the same...the sheathing goes on the purlins and then you roof as normal for the shingles. The purlins are typically 2' OC as trusses would be for a stick-built structure. The difference is that you need half the trusses (properly engineered) to support the weight of the roof including both wind and snow load. This is not an unommon scenario for post frame structures, especially for those that are for residential or vacation living, combined or not combined with other purposes. ("Barndominium")

The issue for hight with stick built isn't the trusses...it's constructing the supporting walls at that height. This is natural for a post frame, but a lot harder for stick-built because of weight bearing challenges...hence, the engineering challenge you mention.

[Lisa Starr]

My shop is exactly what Jim is proposing. It is pole construction with purlins and osb sheathing on the exterior with lap siding fastened to the sheathing. I have a metal roof, but since our home has slate, there was no matching that. Many homes in our town have metal roofing, so it fits right in. Once the exterior was complete, I attached purlins on the inside and attached the wall material. Finally, cellulose was blown into the space for insulation.

[Brian Elfert]

The way it's done is that sheathing is applied to the horizontal girts before your siding goes on. It's not necessary to build stud walls between the posts. You can sheath with ply, osb, ZipSystem/Weatherlogic, etc. Lap siding can be nailed to these with no issues if the correct fasteners are used. Similarly, up on the roof it's the same...the sheathing goes on the purlins and then you roof as normal for the shingles. The purlins are typically 2' OC as trusses would be for a stick-built structure. The difference is that you need half the trusses (properly engineered) to support the weight of the roof including both wind and snow load. This is not an unommon scenario for post frame structures, especially for those that are for residential or vacation living, combined or not combined with other purposes. ("Barndominium")

The issue for hight with stick built isn't the trusses...it's constructing the supporting walls at that height. This is natural for a post frame, but a lot harder for stick-built because of weight bearing challenges...hence, the engineering challenge you mention.

Maybe I'm reading the installation instructions wrong, but LP seems to want Smartside lap siding nailed into studs 16" on center, or they have an alternative fastening system for 24" OC studs.

The engineering issues were mostly with the 40 foot wide gable end wall. The wall will have a 14' wide door and an 18' wide door. To handle the 90 MPH wind load would require a 5'x5'x5' footing at the end of each garage door with a huge composite column and a very expensive hold down anchor to secure the column to the footing. A minimum of $5,000 for that wall and probably more.

The pole barn folks all said the sheathing and asphalt shingles are much heavier than a metal roof with no sheathing and the truss spacing would have to be much narrower. I talked to the structural engineer I am working with and he said I should be able to still do sheathing and shingles even with the traditional spacing for trusses. I would just need bigger purlins.

[Adam Herman]

Brian, I really think you are being led astray. The trusses are not put on each post, a rim joist is installed around the top and trusses can be anywhere at whatever spacing is required. a Sheathed and shingled roof is not a problem, The truss spacing is usually not because of the weight of the roof, but because the sheathing has a fastening/support requirement.
EX: my building will have steel, but is rated for 55 lb/sqft snow load and 155 mph wind with trusses at 4 ft centers. Way more weight than the difference between metal and shingled roof. a metal roof weighs around 2 lbs psf and osb with shingles is around 5 psf.
Siding is not a problem, you simply sheet with plywood/OSB that meets the siding manufactures spec that is installed to the girts and hang on that.

The hardiplank lap siding install guide lists nailing schedules for applying to 7/16 or more thickness OSB. the OSB is nailed to the 24 in spaced girts that wrap the building horizontally and the OSB does not care whether its supports are vertical or horizontal.

a 40 ft gable with roof trusses with an 18 foot door is no problem in a post frame structure. post each side and a good size laminated headers

check out https://www.lesterbuildings.com/
it's who my building that should be going up in a week or so is from, and is local to you in MN. They can do everything that you are wanting. I chose them because a neighbor has one and I was very impressed over some other, more well known makers.

[Brian Elfert]

Lester Buildings was one company who told me the weight of sheathing and asphalt shingles would require extra trusses. They also told me that it would be problematic to place trusses between the poles. Personally, I have never seen a pole building where the trusses were not on top of the poles.

Yes, I know I would not need the extra support with post frame. That engineering was based on a stick built structure.

[Jim Becker]

Every post frame I've seen has had trusses both over the poles and intermediate on the double top headers that run the length of the building sides. Those are typically 2x10 or 2x12 and of the highest quality SYP. Two of those over an 8-10' span can hold a LOT of truss weight for each bay. My trusses will be 4' on center as that's what's required and appropriate for this area for loads. The posts are 8' OC. Trusses certainly can be spaced at 2' on center if that's required for how a building is engineered, including factors such as heavy sheathing and roof materials. But 4' on center with 2x4 purlins at 2' on center is pretty darn robust including being very stiff with sheathing on top. Putting the purlins perpendicular to the truss surface gives an even stronger structure for what is only a 4' span. Those big doors are also a no-brainer for post frame because those openings are not weight bearing like they are with a stick built structure. Sometimes steel does get used for really long spans, however, but that's usually on the side, not the gable end.

[Brian Elfert]

Every post frame I've seen has had trusses both over the poles and intermediate on the double top headers that run the length of the building sides. Those are typically 2x10 or 2x12 and of the highest quality SYP. Two of those over an 8-10' span can hold a LOT of truss weight for each bay. My trusses will be 4' on center as that's what's required and appropriate for this area for loads. The posts are 8' OC. Trusses certainly can be spaced at 2' on center if that's required for how a building is engineered, including factors such as heavy sheathing and roof materials. But 4' on center with 2x4 purlins at 2' on center is pretty darn robust including being very stiff with sheathing on top. Putting the purlins perpendicular to the truss surface gives an even stronger structure for what is only a 4' span. Those big doors are also a no-brainer for post frame because those openings are not weight bearing like they are with a stick built structure. Sometimes steel does get used for really long spans, however, but that's usually on the side, not the gable end.

I'm curious why four foot truss spacing? Menards has a pole building designer that offers 9, 8, 6, 5, and 4 feet truss spacing options. All options except the four foot spacing have a pole under every truss. They have a 3D visualizer that has an option to show the building with no skin on it so you can see the lumber.

The structural engineer I worked with to engineer my stick built structure said he could engineer a pole building for me that works with sheathing and shingles on the roof.

[Jim Becker]

Honestly, I've never seen a post frame structure with a truss spacing more than 4'. I would imagine it's possible for something small or for when there are unique and heavier trusses, such as for simulating post and beam, but 4' pretty much seems to be the standard for these structures. I've been in dozens of them in the past ten years. Post spacing is also generally setup in increments of 4' for the side walls for sure and when possible, on the gable ends, too, but there's more variability on the gable ends. A post frame builder will make something any size you want, but they "greatly prefer" 4' increments because of lumber standards and how things are commonly engineered.

Interestingly, in metal post frame buildings (think "car port") type for this example, the standard spacing appears to be 5' intervals for both posts and trusses. You can order with 4' (which I would have done had I chosen that building type) which is easier to do interior work because of standard material sizes, but it comes with additional cost. "Red iron" type structures have much longer spans...

[Roger Feeley]

Uplate:
we found a general contractor willing to work with Sheds Unlimited. It’s a small design/build firm with gobs of experience. A bonus is that the GC lives a couple of blocks from us and his office is about a half mile away.

He will do the permitting and prepare the slab with water, sewer and electrical (enough to charge those electrical cars). Sheds will erect the shell. Then our contractor will come back and finish.

they project occupancy in about nine months. Our GC estimates that we are saving $75-100K by doing this. We are just happy to shorten the timeline.

[Jim Becker]

That's good news, Roger. 9 months sounds about correct for an "expedited" type of building which to me includes both pre-panelized structures like you are buying as well as post frame. Both go up very quickly once the prep is done. The one difference in process is that for your building, the floor goes in first because it supports the building. For most post frame buildings, the floor goes in after the building is up. Otherwise...lickety split builds! But as you probably surmise, that's when the real fun starts...the inside can take awhile!