radius moulding part 3

[tod evans]

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the w&h without cutters...

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cutters bolted in....

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w&h doing its thing

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one piece ready to sand.......nothin` to it:)

[Bill Webber]

I've always wondered about the W/H thing. Is it hand fed? How many passes did you do to make the piece you show? What is the motor below the table, is it part of the operation? What will the piece you made be used for?

Lots of good info in your tutorial... thanks.

Bill W.

[tod evans]

I've always wondered about the W/H thing. Is it hand fed? How many passes did you do to make the piece you show? What is the motor below the table, is it part of the operation? What will the piece you made be used for?

Lots of good info in your tutorial... thanks.

Bill W.

bill,the w&h has powered in and outfeed rollers, the ones on this machine are powered by a d/c servo motor. the motor under the machine only drives the cutterhead. i ran the piece in the photo in two passes but i just ran the other three in a single pass.....the mouldings are used as interior trim on radiused windows and doors, i wholesale them to the local lumberyard.........and you`re welcome:) tod

[Shelley Bolster]

Ahhh man Tod.......you keeping showing stuff like that and I will forever be broke. That is one cool machine. In a nutshell, what is the biggest advantage/difference/similarity between a shaper and a molder? And.....operating costs?? I know you grind most of your own knives but for those of us less "handy", what would be a ball park figure on molding knives for the W&H or Grizzly machines. I think we often can get stung when purchasing new tools when having to deal with the after-costs of running or maintaining them. Sometimes we can afford to buy them but can't afford to keep them. :cool:
Thanks for the pics! Keep 'em coming!

[Cecil Arnold]

Tod, you d' man. That's a great write up and I know I appreciate you taking the time to post. now that you've shown the rest of us how to do it are you worried that Joe can do it in his garage:) :eek: ;)

[tod evans]

Ahhh man Tod.......you keeping showing stuff like that and I will forever be broke. That is one cool machine. In a nutshell, what is the biggest advantage/difference/similarity between a shaper and a molder? And.....operating costs?? I know you grind most of your own knives but for those of us less "handy", what would be a ball park figure on molding knives for the W&H or Grizzly machines. I think we often can get stung when purchasing new tools when having to deal with the after-costs of running or maintaining them. Sometimes we can afford to buy them but can't afford to keep them. :cool:
Thanks for the pics! Keep 'em coming!

shelley, when i grind knives i charge the customer 25 bucks per lineal inch accross the face of the knives (rounded up!) and there is a 500$ minimum order for moulding and i keep the knives. i do not grind for others only myself, there are plenty of companies who sell knives but if you go to buy make sure they use wkw steel. for those who are just getting into profiling wood a shaper and feeder is a must have! they are far more versatile than a moulder and the learning curve on a shaper will prepare you for using a moulder. tooling for shapers is widely available and affordable, in fact most manufacturers of the smaller shapers offer router collets for their machines. once you use a shaper you will use the router as it was intended to be used, by holding it in your hands:) as for lumping the griz and w&h into the same catagory.......i`ve never driven the griz machine but i`ve been thrashing husseys for quite a long time and they will take abuse..i would be curious as to how the griz holds up but i`m not going to lay out the bucks to find out.....anybody want to loan me one for a week? i`d be happy to post my impressions.......02 tod

[tod evans]

Tod, you d' man. That's a great write up and I know I appreciate you taking the time to post. now that you've shown the rest of us how to do it are you worried that Joe can do it in his garage:) :eek: ;)

not one bit:rolleyes:

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Tod, thanks for the process, it really has been new information to me. I will keep it in mind for future projects.

Links to past threads for those who were looking for them:
making radiused mouldings part 1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29781)
radiused moulding part 2 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29782)

[Bill Simmeth]

Tod, cool beans. I recently bought a used radius jig for my W&H (the Schmidt version of the jig). Your write-up will help when I get 'round to using it. Thanks!

[tod evans]

Tod, cool beans. I recently bought a used radius jig for my W&H (the Schmidt version of the jig). Your write-up will help when I get 'round to using it. Thanks!

bill, the "jigs" for the w&h machines are used for doing ellipses if you`re doing a true radius you`re much better off using solid guides......02 tod

[Bill Simmeth]

bill, the "jigs" for the w&h machines are used for doing ellipses if you`re doing a true radius you`re much better off using solid guides...Uh, umm, err, oh, that's what I meant :o :D

[lou sansone]

thanks tod ... I also wondered about the w/h... I take it you can easily do straight moldings on it. did you buy yours new or used /

lou

[Richard Wolf]

Nice post Tod. So the template follows the guide, not the piece being molded? How are you making the templates, they look very accurate? If you were making a one of a kind would you still make a template or just shoot for a good glue up to start with?
Thanks

Richard

[tod evans]

thanks tod ... I also wondered about the w/h... I take it you can easily do straight moldings on it. did you buy yours new or used /

lou

hi lou, straight is a piece of cake. i buy them new and trade off when the seven year warranty runs out. they resale for only a few hundred less than new!............02 tod

[tod evans]

Nice post Tod. So the template follows the guide, not the piece being molded? How are you making the templates, they look very accurate? If you were making a one of a kind would you still make a template or just shoot for a good glue up to start with?
Thanks

Richard

hi richard, a template can be used for any radius close to the template size, it`s no problem to cheat an inch or so...i cut mdf with a trammel mounted router to make the templates and mdf is cheap enough it pays to make a template if i don`t allready have one.......02 tod

[Bill Simmeth]

bill, the "jigs" for the w&h machines are used for doing ellipses if you`re doing a true radius you`re much better off using solid guides...Tod, if I could come back to this for a moment... Is the reason for this that, for a radius, you can have more contact surface using pattern cut guides vs. the bearing on the jig thereby keeping the workpiece steadier through the head? Have you run elliptical shapes with the jig before and if so, did the jig hold the workpiece true?

Thanks again,

[tod evans]

Tod, if I could come back to this for a moment... Is the reason for this that, for a radius, you can have more contact surface using pattern cut guides vs. the bearing on the jig thereby keeping the workpiece steadier through the head? Have you run elliptical shapes with the jig before and if so, did the jig hold the workpiece true?

Thanks again,

bill, when running ellipses i use a home made jig loosley patterned after the bonneyman jig. mine uses dual pneumatic cylinders to hold the workpiece to the bearing. i find this design is easier to drive than the springloaded varieties. running anything through one of these jigs whether an ellipse or a curve-back (s) is a trick wrought with failure. after almost 20yrs of doing curved work i still figure a 40% loss when i`m trying to register the stock against a single point. some folks may claim a higher sucess rate but i`d be skeptical. everyone i know who owns these machines cringes when an ellipitical form is mentioned so don`t get bummed if you have a few blow up on you. there`s a machine on the market made by mirkon that claims to have solved the problems with ellipses but for now it`s outta my league, 15k! .....02 tod

[Corey Hallagan]

Tod, very kewl! Very interesting and thanks for posting it.

Corey

[Keith Outten]

Tod,

I just got the Shop Fox planer molder so I appreciate your timely information. I suspect that you have just barely touched the high points of making molding. Any other "getting started" information you would care to share would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Keith

[tod evans]

Tod,

I just got the Shop Fox planer molder so I appreciate your timely information. I suspect that you have just barely touched the high points of making molding. Any other "getting started" information you would care to share would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Keith

keith, what would you like to know about running mouldings? are you planning on doing radiuses or straight runs? probably the best advice i can give without knowing what you`re trying to achieve is to make sure your blanks are sized accurately if you`re doing straight runs. run both edges through the planer and the back also. read the grain when you feed and you`ll have a cleaner run if you take the cut in a single pass instead of multpile ones.....02 tod

[Keith Outten]

Tod,

Yes, I plan on using my molding machine for straight and curved molding and I would like to find out if it will machine Corian solid surface material. Given that Corian normally machines well with other woodworking cutters I would venture a guess that a molding cutter could also cut plastics like Corian. Even if the cutter angles had to be adjusted it would be worth it to me to purchase custom cutters for plastic. Architectural millwork is in my future :) My near term project is new wood trim molding for my 100 year old home.

[tod evans]

Tod,

Yes, I plan on using my molding machine for straight and curved molding and I would like to find out if it will machine Corian solid surface material. Given that Corian normally machines well with other woodworking cutters I would venture a guess that a molding cutter could also cut plastics like Corian. Even if the cutter angles had to be adjusted it would be worth it to me to purchase custom cutters for plastic. Architectural millwork is in my future :) My near term project is new wood trim molding for my 100 year old home.

keith, when running corian i`d expect cutter life to be on par with running mdf..i grind my knifes as usual, no special angle...on man-mades you should figure 2-3k lineal feet before sharpening if you`re knifes are from wkw stock..i`ve heard schmidt carries good stock but i don`t change once i`ve found something that works. if you go off brand knifes figure about half the life..if you`re doing true radiuses you won`t need the elliptical jig, those are for doublecentered arches (ie pella, anderson, etc) and ellipses. a word to the wise: if you intend to break into the speciality millwork field do some local research first. there are probably several speciality shops running 5-6 head moulders that will kick your butt on turn time and quality for straight runs. bernie davis http://www.curvedmouldings.com/ runs a speciality shop out east and has been at this for quite a while. he does internet orders so would be direct compitition. did you read my response to your shop-fox thread? and did you review the first two installments on this one? i`ll be glad to help in any way i can but don`t jump into the speciality field without doing the demographics first, it`s a pretty competitive marketplace......02 tod

[Ed Kowaski]

Fascinating, thanks for posting this Tod!

The w&h looks like a stout and capable little molder, never actually seen a good pic of one before.

Is it tedious to set the knives?
What is the max molding depth that is workable?
Does the machine feed require any hands on help?

TIA
Ed

[tod evans]

Fascinating, thanks for posting this Tod!

The w&h looks like a stout and capable little molder, never actually seen a good pic of one before.

Is it tedious to set the knives?
What is the max molding depth that is workable?
Does the machine feed require any hands on help?

TIA
Ed

ed, knife setting is easier than changing the blade on your tablesaw! w&h says the max depth is 3/4" but when you stick a 5hp motor under the machine it`ll take what you throw at it:) as for hands-on????? only when running ellipses do you really need to help guide the piece, circular and straight runs require you to start the board untill the feed rollers grab hold then let it go....02 tod

[Keith Outten]

Thanks Tod,

I did read every word you shared and found your comments very informative. For the record I have no intention of going into the molding business but I do get an occasional job as a result of my sign work that requires me to stretch a bit from my day to day offerings. I can see in my minds eye some very nice custom signs with custom moldings and I would like to be able to produce them myself.

Generally I try to keep from going outside my own workshop for support, this way I can control quality and schedule. I can also experiment a bit and be innovative when the job calls for something special and cost is not a big issue. Long ago I started doing my own welding work, then bending and now metal machining. These are not large scale efforts, just enough to get the job done to support my primary work...commercial signs. I am dreaming of expanding into some special projects in the future that may involve large columns and some detailed mill work in the construction of very large commercial buildings. Nothing major, these would be small portions of a very large job.

You answered my question concerning machining Corian, I will definately make a note about cutter life and I'm glad to know that the molding machines will machine plastics.

.

[tod evans]

Thanks Tod,

I did read every word you shared and found your comments very informative. For the record I have no intention of going into the molding business but I do get an occasional job as a result of my sign work that requires me to stretch a bit from my day to day offerings. I can see in my minds eye some very nice custom signs with custom moldings and I would like to be able to produce them myself.

Generally I try to keep from going outside my own workshop for support, this way I can control quality and schedule. I can also experiment a bit and be innovative when the job calls for something special and cost is not a big issue. Long ago I started doing my own welding work, then bending and now metal machining. These are not large scale efforts, just enough to get the job done to support my primary work...commercial signs. I am dreaming of expanding into some special projects in the future that may involve large columns and some detailed mill work in the construction of very large commercial buildings. Nothing major, these would be small portions of a very large job.

You answered my question concerning machining Corian, I will definately make a note about cutter life and I'm glad to know that the molding machines will machine plastics.

.

keith, by taking that approach i`m sure you will be sucsessful and have fun doing it! when you said you where planning on getting into architectural mouldings in my minds eye i saw you taking the road i have taken, and i wouldn`t wish that on anyone:). one suggestion i`d make is if you haven`t run your machine yet is to see if you can exchange it for the new variable speed version. i don`t know the specs on the feeder motor but the one i have lets me go from a crawl to almost double what the transmission unit will do. i would expect that when running plastics you could avoid burning by changing the feed rate just as with wood? here`s a pic of some mdf that i ran last week so you can see the cut quality. good luck and keep us posted on milling plastic....02 tod

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[Mark Singer]

Tod,
Your making the wood curve again.....talk nicely to it!;)