Which BS Blade to Use? - Results Are In (w/Pics)

[Vaughn McMillan]

I need bandsaw blade selection advice, and I'm sure the collective wisdom here can steer me in at least three different directions. ;) I'm planning to cut an 11" thick glue-up (rip cut, across the grain) into two cutting boards. (Quilt Boards Round II). In other words, I'm turning one 2.5" thick end-grain cutting block into two ~1.25" boards. It's a composite of maple, cherry, walnut, padauk, and purpleheart.

At my disposal, I have the 14" Shop Fox bandsaw with riser block, and my choice of a 3/4" 3TPI Olsen blade, or a 1/2" Woodslicer from Highland Hardware.

Which blade would you use? I pretty much only have one shot at this, so I'd rather not learn by experience which blade is the wrong one. :rolleyes: Speed of cut in not important...I'll have all the time I need. I'd like to have minimal sanding/planing on the cut faces, but I know some will be involved. (The uncut sides will also need a fair amount of flattening, and if the initial rip goes well, I may try to slice the rough stuff off the other faces, too.)

Thanks in advance -

- Vaughn

[Lee DeRaud]

Warning, raw random thoughts follow...

Uh, I hope you've got one (relatively) flat side to index against the fence or this is going to get waaay too exciting..

Bladewise, I suspect it's a push. But can that saw really tension a 3/4" blade properly?

[Scott Donley]

Hi Vaughn, I would would use the Woodslicer, I have the Jet 14 in. with riser and have used both. The 3/4 blade is a lot to ask for your saw but if you are looking for a rough, fast, cut, it might work for you. The 1/2 in. Woodslicer is a great blade in my opinion ( for whatever that is worth ) smooth cut, fast enough for me, I wouldn't use it to resaw a 12 inch log more than once, but I don' think I would us the Timberwolf for that either. My Jet is a 1 hp. Then again, you could always us a handsaw :) Good luck !

[Scott Donley]

Warning, raw random thoughts follow...

Uh, I hope you've got one (relatively) flat side to index against the fence or this is going to get waaay too exciting..

Bladewise, I suspect it's a push. But can that saw really tension a 3/4" blade properly?You beat me to it Lee, I knew I was slow typing :)

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Vaughn, I personally would use the Woodslicer--at least as long as the saw is set up well.

Those are my everday blades and when I am resawing everything except the worst wood.

Take care, Mike

[Vaughn McMillan]

...Uh, I hope you've got one (relatively) flat side to index against the fence or this is going to get waaay too exciting..

Bladewise, I suspect it's a push. But can that saw really tension a 3/4" blade properly? No worries, I do indeed have the "flat" side that I've been working off all along. (Good heads-up, nonetheless.) It's not "finished surface" flat, but I've been doing trim cuts on the assembly with the TS and jointer, so I I've maintained a couple of decent reference surfaces.

With my limited experience with decent bandsaws, I don't know how to determine if the saw's really capable of tensioning a 3/4" blade. I've run the 3/4" blade a bit and resawn up to about 7" thick material into pretty consistent 1/16" slices. The blade marks were nothing a single light pass through the planer couldn't fix. I haven't tried the flutter method with the 3/4" blade, but I just cranked it up to a bit past the 3/4" mark on the gauge, and it seemed to cut straight. My preliminary trials with the Woodslicer (flutter tensioned) were more wavy than with the 3/4" blade, but I hadn't yet fine-tuned the fence for drift. I'm also thinking I might have under-tensioned it for that attempt. Whichever blade I use, I'll be making sure everything is as tuned as I can get it before doing the money cut. ;)

Thanks again -

- Vaughn

[Mike Cutler]

Vaughn.

I'm going to be a bit of an outlyer on this one.
I have a 14" Jet BS, which is very similar to the Shopfox 14". I found out that the OEM supplied spring could only supply about 9000 psi max. This was not enough to tension the 1/2" woodslicer blade properly. IIRC the 1/2" wood slicer needed about 14000 psi to be properly tensioned. If you haven't upgraded the tension spring, you may want to seriosly consider upgrading it to the Iturra replacement spring.
I had the same results that you did with the 3/4" blade. It did fine if I was cutting thin slices, but once I tried to cut stock down the middle for bookmatching it failed. I don't think it had the ability to deal with the pressure of the offcast piece. I also don't think the 14" can properly tension a 3/4" blade.
I'm assuming that you have a 3TPI 1/2" woodslicer blade, nice blade by the way. For this cut I might be inclined to try a 6TPI 1/2" blade. You are cutting across the grain, if I am understanding correctly. The 1/2" woodslicer is more a resaw blade to cut along the grain, and be able to clear waste. A blade with more TPI would give you a smoother cut.
I think that for a piece of material this size you will really be pushing it. You will need to be concerned about the amount of heat generated, and the effect on the blade. You might find that your cut starts out well and then wanders as the blade heats up. I have used a technique to resaw where I swittched ends and allowed the blade to cool down. The cut met in the middle. As I said though, this was resawing, you are actually crosscutting. The results could be different.
One more technique that might help is to make the initial cuts on a tablesaw around the entire perimeter of the piece. This would allow you to establish a kerf for the BS blade to track in, remove alot of excess material and make your actual material cutting height about 5" less than it would be. It would also help out with the heat related issues. It would also give you a visual groove to guide the blade.
Good luck with the cut. That last cutting board that you showed us came out really fine. Nice work

[Vaughn McMillan]

Well, I tuned up the saw, tightened up the Woodslicer, and waltzed through the glue-up. Buttah. I went at a leisurely pace, and nothing seemed to strain or work hard. I'm liking this saw and blade.

Here's the blow-by-blow:

I rigged the aux rip fence from my tablesaw onto the bandsaw fence (simple wedges held it square for now, but I gotta make me a resaw fence), and made sure things were set for drift with a few feet of test cuts. The featherboard helped keep things in place. On your mark...get set...

30138

Go...

30139

and another angle...

30140

and done:

30141

The cut surface is nice and smooth, and should sand out easily. However, it's not quite flat, plus the other sides of the boards are still relatively rough, so tomorrow the pair of blanks will go through the planer in a sacrificial frame that I hope will eliminate the snipe. (A prominent feature of my Delta Snipemaster planer. :cool: ) If the planer doesn't work, it's nothing the belt sander and a lot of time can't fix. I'd just rather avoid it. These boards are end grain, after all.

Thanks again for all the advice -

- Vaughn

[Mark Rios]

OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............may I say, very, very nice.

[lou sansone]

nice job vaughn
one concern I would have with the planer is the end grain getting beat up on the tailing edge of the piece. Do you have any concern? What are quilt square blocks for? They look really nice. how long did it take to make them.

lou

[tod evans]

vaughn, do not stick that in your planer! use a router on a bridge to flatten that before sanding. the planer will very likely rip that glue-up to shreads and if you`re lucky you`ll just loose the board and not mess up the planer. a router is a much safer way and your board will survive the onslaught........02 tod

[Vaughn McMillan]

Lou and Tod, you both bring up good points. My current plan is to run them through the planer (very light passes) together, surrounded by a frame of pine. The leading and trailing edge would be about 1 1/2" of sacrificial material, with 3/8" "rails" on both sides to keep the end pieces tight to the two boards. I figured within a pass or two I'd have an idea if the planer would chew it up too bad. (I've seen posts here where others have successfully run end grain cutting boards through a benchtop planer.)

That said, Tod's suggestion for a router bridge has got me thinkin'. It'd take a little bit of time to build one, but it could come in handy now and in the future. Plus, less chance of blowing something up. ;) I'll sleep on it. Maybe try the first idea and resort to the second if need be.

BTW Lou, they're supposed to be cutting boards. The kind nobody would ever want to cut on. :) One's a replacement for an earlier one that I built wrong, and the second is sold already.

- Vaughn

[Brian Hale]

I'm with Tod on this Vaughn, don't put that in the planer. Most likely it'll get trashed.

The router on a bridge idea would work well. You can also screw, clamp or glue some boards to opposite sides leaving them proud by 1/4" or so, and pass them over a 1/2" router bit in the router table. Also, a 3/4" dado head in the TS would work.

Let us know what you decide.

Brian :)

BTW, That looks really cool!!! Could be an interesting way to make matching cabinet doors also.

[Jim Becker]

I'm with the others, Vaughn...the planer is not going to like that end-grain and you risk both major tear-out and perhaps "complete disassembly" of your beautiful pattern. Use the router bridge or a drum sander or even a belt sander skillfully held in your competent hands... ;)

[John Miliunas]

Vaughn, the Wise Ones have already spoken but, if you'd like to hear it from a "Joe Six-Pack", I concur! :D Don't risk the planer on those pieces! I might be tempted to try it if I had a Shelix or similar, but I believe straight knives will "kill" it!:eek: :) :cool:

[Jeff Singleton]

Vaughan, If you are dead set on running that through your planer then do what a lot of guy/gals do when planning highly figured wood. Wet the wood before sending it through the planer, just get it wet, not dripping but wet enough so it can get as deep as your cut. If you send it through dry you are sending it to it's death. Or better yet, find someone with a widebelt sander. If I had it I would sand it on my 24" Master disc sander, hey, find a patternshop and see if they would let you use their disc sander for maybe two minutes. Offer to buy them a new disc, $15 max in CA. Lower the table down and go to town. It looks like you spent a lot of time making that masterpiece, don't let the planer have it's way with those wood fibers.

Jeff Singleton;)

[Bob Swenson]

Vaughan- Those boards should only be used to cut filet mignon and truffles.
What glue did you use and what finish do you plan to use ?

[David Fried]

Vaughn,

Send them to me and I will rub my hands over them until they are silky smooth. I think I can get them back to you this century. Maybe..;)

Nice job. I'm also impressed by the drawers in your shop. If I put one tool in each drawer I might be able to fill them all!

Dave Fried

[Vaughn McMillan]

Wow, that's a pretty resounding "don't do it" from a crowd of guys who've done this more than me. Since I don't know of a local shop with a big disc sander, and the local shop with a wide belt sander wants an arm and leg just for turning the machine on, looks like I'll be going the router route.

Bob, I used Weldwood/DAP plastic resin glue. The first quilt board I made was done with plastic resin glue on some of the joints, and Titebond II on the others. Within a month, the Titebond joints had started to creep a bit, but the others have not moved. I plan to use a wipe-on poly/oil finish (Salad Bowl Finish from General). All my previous cutting boards have been finished with a long soak in mineral oil, but based on experience I had with the first quilt board, I've decided to put more of a membrane finish on the next one(s). If there was any chance someone would use a knife on the board, I'd use mineral oil. Not much chance with these boards. ;)

Thanks for the multiple pieces of advice -

- Vaughn

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

Vaughn, Beautiful cutting boards. I'm surprised that you feel that no one would ever cut on them...I know that if they were in my kitchen, I would use them. In my mind, you have built something utilitarian that just so happens to also be a work of art....sorta like a great Italian sports car...you would not just let the car sit in the garage, would you?

Being end grain, battle scars are going to heal a little more than if flat, long grain....

Personally, I'd rather have the oil finish (since I would use them)....a membrane finish would scar more.

Great job Vaughn!

Doug

[Frank Chaffee]

Vaughn, Beautiful cutting boards. I know that if they were in my kitchen, I would use them.
Being end grain, battle scars are going to heal a little more than if flat, long grain....
Personally, I'd rather have the oil finish (since I would use them)....a membrane finish would scar more.
Great job Vaughn!
Doug
Vaughn,
I am with Doug on this. Your design and construction of endgrain cutting boards is so masterful that they beg to be used.
I always like to see your work Vaughn, keep inspiring us please!
Frank

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Vaughn,

Glad the BS blade experiment was a success! And what beautiful cutting boards. I love seeing them.


If there was any chance someone would use a knife on the board, I'd use mineral oil. Not much chance with these boards.

fwiw, I made a nice pair of cutting boards for my mom a few years ago. After several visits noticing she hadn't used either of them [we see each other at least once a week], I asked her why she hadn't used them yet--yep, "they look too nice" was the answer. But she is an avid cook and had been using one of her old ones. So I laid one of them down on the counter and took her big chef's knife and started whacking the surface. She uses them now...

But that is a problem with such nice looking boards: who wants to mar the surface? That you make them so nice people may pause before using them is a testament to the workmanship.

Take care, Mike

[Kent Parker]

[quote=Mike Wenzloff]
So I laid one of them down on the counter and took her big chef's knife and started whacking the surface. She uses them now...[quote]

I found out that this was also a good solution.

I have seen many of my gift cutting boards go un-used for the very reason..."too smooth" or "too pretty".

So.... much to their horror, I'd make a few deep cuts with a knife and tell them to start using it. I haven't be able to do that to the cutting board I gave my wife this Christmas, she might take the knife to me:eek:

Vaughn, I tried the planer trick and VERY gently too, killed my board not to mention the burn marks (and with sharp blades) on end grain. Never again. PLEASE DON'T. Your work is just too intricate and
beautiful ;).

Take the time and belt sand them, its great exersize.

Great re-saw by the way!!

Cheers,

Kent

[Vaughn McMillan]

Quick update...I put together a simple router bridge out of some scrap pine and 3/4" baltic ply, and flattened the first of the two. Still needed a few minutes with the belt sander and some 50 grit to smooth out the ridges, but the end result is dead flat. I only did the non-cut side (the roughest of the two) so far, but I'm planning to do the other side to get rid of about 1/16" of discrepancy in the side I cut on the BS. I ran out of time today, and I was in a hurry so I didn't take any pics, but I'll snap a few when I do the next one tomorrow to show some proof (and to give the new guys an idea how simple a router bridge is).

To those of you who are suggesting mineral oil instead of the salad bowl finish, I understand the sentiment. I know these two particular boards will be for display (and possible food serving) only -- no cutting -- so I want something that will maintain a more consistent look over time. If I use only oil, it'll dry out from time to time and need to be refreshed, especially on an end grain board. If the membrane doesn't work out right, I can always sand it down and go with oil. If I use oil first, there's no changing my mind later.

For the record, as far as I know, none of the several dozen boards I've made have actually been used for cutting. It's become sort of a trademark. ;) I do plan to start making "user" boards to sell along with my "looker" boards.

Thanks all -

- Vaughn

[Mike Wenzloff]

For the record, as far as I know, none of the several dozen boards I've made have actually been used for cutting. It's become sort of a trademark. ;) I do plan to start making "user" boards to sell along with my "looker" boards.
Well, they are pretty enough to hang on the wall or use as a center piece.

Trust me when I say, the first thing I would do if I bought one would be to bring home a loaf of bread, some cheese and a bottle of wine. We would then sit down at the table and give it a baptism...But then, that's us.

The best gift we were given when my wife and I were married [1974] was a nearly 3" thick Maple cutting board made by my wife's great uncle. We use it nearly every day still. I've resurfaced it a few times and it probably needs it again, at least on one side. It's still over 2" thick. It will last us the remainder of our lives most likely.

Take care, Mike

[Vaughn McMillan]

...Trust me when I say, the first thing I would do if I bought one would be to bring home a loaf of bread, some cheese and a bottle of wine. We would then sit down at the table and give it a baptism...But then, that's us... Personally, I'm the same way. Especially with an end grain board. Maybe it's because you and I realize how easy it is to redo the surface with a bit of sandpaper and mineral oil. These are the first two boards I've ever made that I didn't use mineral oil on. Like I said, these two are kind of an exception, since the customers have specifically told me they won't be cut on. If they change their minds, I'll likely end up refinishing them. They're both friends, so I wouldn't mind. Too much. :)

- Vaughn

Edited to add: The recipient of the first of these boards decided she wanted it ASAP yesterday, so it got a quick shot of mineral oil, and I'm done with it. Apparently speed was more important than appearance. No worries, I've already lost enough money on these boards, I don't need to lose any more time.