Shaper cutter selection assistance needed

[Nick Crivello]

I'm in the process of acquiring an SCM T120c shaper. Thinking of starting with a Whitehill combi head, adjustable groover, and spiral head. The selection of profiles and cutters seems a little bewildering, and would like some input on initial cutters to start with.

There seems to be a lot of overlap with other tools in the workshop, there are situations where I'm not quite sure if getting the equivalent shaper cutter makes sense. For example, the table saw can do grooves, dados, rabbits, etc. Likewise, a handheld router can be fitted with a flush cut trim bit, as well as round over/bevels etc. For the shaper, I see many interesting cutters such as mitre locks glue line, finger joints, etc. I'm not sure where the set up time and efficiency comes in compared to other tools in the shop. When and where does the shaper enter your workflow?

Would like to branch out into furniture builds; tables, consoles, chairs, template profiling and the like. Not so much production stuff like molding, doors, etc.

Any input/experience you guys have would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[Carl Beckett]

I look forward to hearing experience of the professionals here. I am a hobby guy. Where I use the shaper:

Edge dado with the groover. In fact, I had a thumb surgery many years ago putting a dado in the edge of a board to fit a panel (tablesaw). For me this is a pretty common operation and the shaper/groover works beautifully. Get a groover that can cut the range of width you want.

Rabbet. Your spiral rabbeting cutter should work for this. Simple setup, smooth finish.

Profiling. Just depends if you have the bit you want.

Door making cutters. I already had some for the router table and stick with those. The depth of cut on the router bit sets might not be as deep as on a shaper, that would be an advantage.

Tongue and groove. A simple door/panel making use. This one gets used for the same reason as the groover.

Lock miter. I have done this on the router table since I work mostly with smaller/thinner stock. I wouldnt mind picking up a lock miter for the shaper because I think it may behave and cut more smoothly. But it needs to be a design for relatively thinner stock (say, 3/8 to 1" range). Most of the lock miter bits I see do not handle thin material. So havent pulled the trigger on that. (a lot of people do not feel a lock miter is needed - so maybe a simple 45 miter cutter or one of the profile blades for this)

I wonder about a rub collar for your spiral head. Might be good for template work. If you feel like hand feeding...

Are you getting a feeder? Seems critical if doing much at all on the shaper.

Again hobby user and by no means an expert.

[Rod Sheridan]

Like Carl, I’m a hobby user.

I always suggest hobby users start with the following

1) a rebate head, often 125 X 50 mm. You can rebate, cut tenons and with a guide ring set (ball bearing collar) pattern copy

2) an adjustable groover, I started with the dado set from the saw (in my case 30 mm bore) and added a 4 to 7.5 mm groover for thinner veneered plywood later.

3) a method of making profiles, most commonly a Euroblock head that takes 40/50 mm knives and limiters. The knives come in a wide array of profiles, available everywhere. Whitehill sell a combi head that does items 1 and 3,

That does 90% of everything you’ll want to do.

I do have a lock mitre cutter, used for Stickley style legs, and a larger groover that can also be inverted to cut both cheeks of a tenon in one pass, and a set of glue joint knives for item 3, although rarely used.

I have other cutters, only add what you need.

You’re probably going to want a curve guard for pattern shaping, maybe a tenon hood and table and definitely a power feeder.

You’ll find the shaper more accurate, more productive and safer than the router due to size, cutter diameter and geometry as well as superior guarding and the ability to use a feeder.

A really useful accessory is an outboard fence, used with the feeder it can profile and dimension in one pass…..

Also buy The Spindle Moulder Handbook by Eric Stephenson, it’s the only modern book I’ve found, all the others are decades out of date…Rod.

[Greg Quenneville]

A friend who spends thousands on tooling every month (conventional and cnc) recommended Whitehill to me, and I now have five of there cutter blocks and quite a few 55 mm inserts. You are on the right track there…Whitehill cutters are made of very good steel and thick.

They also make many profiles in carbide, and probably would make any profile as a custom job. I had them make special knives for me, but in steel. They were very good to work with for a company that ships 10,000 inserts a month.

I am a hobbyist too, but now have a seperate spindle moulder as well as my combination machine. My router table now sits unloved in a corner with its back to the room.

I would really prioritise a power feeder.

[Mike Kees]

I consider a shaper without a power feeder only half of the machine. Rod's advice on tooling is excellent as is the book he recommends. Shaper tooling gets very expensive fast so I would just buy what you need as you need it after the basic set up.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I agree with Rod for initial tooling. You’re going to want to go with everything 1 1/4” bore. I’m sure Brent will be along at some point with more specifics, but i think you can use the combi head like a rabbeting block if you’re trying to stretch the budget initially and do double duty with some of the tooling. Likewise, as Rod mentioned, with certain adjustable groover as you can flip them inside out and have them for tenoning both cheeks in a single pass like mini tenoning discs.

I’m still pretty new to shapers and acquiring tooling over the last year but I started with an Amana 125x50 steel rabbeting block with shear carbide/knickers, then got a Whitehill 4-15mm adjustable groover, and recently picked up a CGG Schmidt 4”x4” carbide Spiral head with matching bearing for pattern/flush cutting. The cost of those 3 pieces of tooling has exceeded the shaper/feeder cost at this point, which is the name of the game. The quality of cut and longevity of cutter life is phenomenal and the efficiency and safety of running parts and pieces with a feeder or by hand with MAN rated tooling is incomparable to a router table setup IMO. My next tooling investment will likely be some sort of head that can support stock and custom profiles - either corrugated or a Euro block style that can accept profiled knives. I don’t really do much/any profiled work but it would be nice to have as an option should it come up.

Pretty sure the machine has a nice feeder on it, which is a big deal. Happy to hear that you’re going after that machine. It should serve you well.

[Jeff Roltgen]

Best thing I did after a major investment in a Felder F900z, was to go to an Alpine Workshop class on advanced shaper joinery. You will get hands-on experience with many types of cutters, with an emphasis on Rangate tooling, as they sponsor/administer the classes. Spendy, yes, but impeccable results with proper setup.

Regardless of brand, here's what I learned: with a machine of the caliber like the Felder or SCM that you've got ordered, you want BIG stuff. These machines are scaled for 4-10" diameter cutters, and when you chuck a small little Amana or Grizzly 3", it's almost too small. Every time I chuck up a small, econo-shaper cutter, it is rougher, louder, more chatter, even with these bigger shapers. Smoothness of cut is most notable difference with the big cutter heads. You can easily have as much invested in these cutter heads as the machine itself, but once you experience the difference, you'll understand completely.
Cannot stress enough, as you enter into large-scale molding machinery like this, some time in a pro shop, via classes or otherwise, is almost the only way to get a true picture of the level of performance you're now dealing with, and you'll find yourself staying off the router table as much as possible. Not the same as tooling up with a router table and couple hundred bucks worth of bits - you can get instruction everywhere you look for this mainstream approach to woodworking, but you just bought into commercial-level stuff, and it is quite a different world. In a very good way. (just not cheap!)

Good luck!
Jeff

[Kevin Jenness]

All the advice above is good, especially on the Stephenson book and the importance of a powerfeed. Curved work can often be done more safely using a powerfeed with one wheel.

The shaper excels at pattern work but it is a very versatile machine - also potentially a very dangerous one. In-person instruction from an experienced user is very helpful. One shop I worked at used to have a rule that shaper setups be checked by a second person. It is always a good idea to check that cutter position, fences, guards and powerfeed settings are all locked down before startup.

The best miter lock cutter I have seen is the Freeborn design which allows for running all the parts on the flat at one setting plus a dado on the tablesaw. Running parts on edge, especially wide or long ones, is fraught. The Freeborn set is limited to 3/4" - 1 1/8" thickness, though. I more often use a simple miterfold but there are situations where a lock miter is preferable.

For large profiles a corrugated back cutterhead is very useful. For pattern cutting you will want a bearing the same diameter as your cutter. You will find that cutters can easily overtake the machine investment. Buy as needed. For production insert cutters will pay off, especially where maintaining diameter is important but brazed cutters are reliable and less expensive up front.

[Jared Sankovich]

+2 or is it +3 on the adjustable groover, rebate block and 40mm euro block.

+2 on corrugated heads for any custom profiles.

[Nick Crivello]

All: it comes with what looks like a 1hp Europa v8 power feeder.

[Patrick Kane]

I assume your T120 has a 1-1/4" spindle, or is it 30mm? I think there are two school's of thought on tooling. Buy as you need, or lurk around for used tooling at a screaming deal. I chose the latter for my 1-1/4" spindle on my Felder 700, and i spent a few months combing craigslist and marketplace before i found some guy unloading a ton of tooling. I think he picked it up at an auction and didnt really know what he was selling. I purchased about 125lbs of cutterheads for $700-800 and shipped them in multiple boxes to PA. I sold half for more than that and kept the other half. It is why i have steel body cope and stick sets for 4-5 different profiles, multiple raised panel profiles, rebate blocks etc. New insert cutters are $50ish for each cutterhead, and they will more than likely last me the rest of my hobbyist lifetime. Eventually the insert cutterhead bodies do wear out, but that is not within my usage. Over the years i purchased a used spiral insert head with rub bearing and used Felder euro block as they came along. My last piece of the puzzle would be two sets of adjustable groovers for 1/4" up to 3/4". This tooling overlaps with a a dado set in a table saw, but if you had your choice, the shaper is a lot nicer for some operations. This is where i am at currently, because do i really want to spend $1,000+ on groover sets when i can technically achieve the same result on one of two table saws, albeit, in a slightly more uncomfortable and less safe manner. I can tell you from experience used groover sets are RARE on the used market. They do come up for sale, but they are rarely discounted more than 20%.

My shaper is a combo machine, so i really only use the shaper for template work and cope/stick or tongue/groove operations. I have a comatic dc40 feeder, and its excellent, but i am not as firm of a believer of "you have to have a feeder for a shaper". Feeders arent fool proof. I once had to shut down an operation at an alarming rate when my incorrect setup of the feeder allowed the work piece to begin to turn sideways and dip into the cutterhead. In other words, kind of a nightmare scenario. Thankfully, i shut things down half a second after i saw what was about to happen. Its also kind of a PITA to lift my feeder into place and get it setup correctly. I often hand feed parts when i only have a dozen to shape. As your confidence grows, it isnt dangerous or nerve-wracking. If you are worried, i recommend making a false-fence/zero clearance fence face. This simple jig makes the machine very safe for handfeeding profiles. Thats my opinion, if you are strapped for cash i would spend the money on cutters before $1,000+ on a feeder and waiting on future cutterheads.

[brent stanley]

I'm in the process of acquiring an SCM T120c shaper. Thinking of starting with a Whitehill combi head, adjustable groover, and spiral head. The selection of profiles and cutters seems a little bewildering, and would like some input on initial cutters to start with.

There seems to be a lot of overlap with other tools in the workshop, there are situations where I'm not quite sure if getting the equivalent shaper cutter makes sense. For example, the table saw can do grooves, dados, rabbits, etc. Likewise, a handheld router can be fitted with a flush cut trim bit, as well as round over/bevels etc. For the shaper, I see many interesting cutters such as mitre locks glue line, finger joints, etc. I'm not sure where the set up time and efficiency comes in compared to other tools in the shop. When and where does the shaper enter your workflow?

Would like to branch out into furniture builds; tables, consoles, chairs, template profiling and the like. Not so much production stuff like molding, doors, etc.

Any input/experience you guys have would be much appreciated. Thanks!


Hi Nick, you're going to love your shaper! I'm associated with Whitehill so ask me any questions you might have. That said, 95% of my time is spent making sawdust for a living and I use this stuff all the time. I don't hesitate to suggest the combi to smaller commercial shops (depending on how much of what they do) and certainly hobbyists. There have been a few situations where I wished I had separate blocks, but not enough to get a dedicated rebate block yet. It helps that I have a big combi for the big machine, and a small one for both but I think very heavy shaper users where time is critical might go the separate block route. The nice thing about the combi is it is zero compromise in terms of performance.

I would try the combi head for pattern shaping before you get a spiral, as you may well find the cut quality more than good enough. I am making arched rails now and sent a picture of fluffy shavings you could see through to a friend from milling the rebate. Depending on the pattern milling you're doing, you may find the block has too large a diameter though. A set of bearings is nice, but a ring fence is very versatile and if I could pick only one it would be the ring fence I think.

The best English language book on shapers is by Eric Stephenson and when you start going through it, it will blow your mind how much you can do. As soon as I got my first shaper, I stopped using the router table almost entirely as it just wasn't as enjoyable to use, nor did it give results as good. I have not done a rebate with the table saw since, or a groove near an edge and I use the shaper to bring boards down to final width using a back fence and the list goes on...

You might find setting yourself up to tenon on the shaper helpful too, just looking at the list of things you are going to get up to, though it might require additional investment.

Regardless of where you go, I do suggest MAN rated tooling which is designed for low kickback potential and won't autofeed your hand if the worst happens. Corrugated blocks are very handy and practical and though many folks don't realize it, they are available in limiting style too.

Keith doesn't mind if I answer Whitehill questions here, but feel free to PM me if you prefer.

B

[Albert Lee]

You will love your SCM shaper. I have a TI145EP. The shaper will always give you better finish than router. You need to get yourself a feeder. I am still learning as well.

[Nick Crivello]

Hi Nick, you're going to love your shaper! I'm associated with Whitehill so ask me any questions you might have.
Brent,

I'm reading your post with great curiosity; since you offered, I do have a few questions to ask


That said, 95% of my time is spent making sawdust for a living and I use this stuff all the time. I don't hesitate to suggest the combi to smaller commercial shops (depending on how much of what they do) and certainly hobbyists. There have been a few situations where I wished I had separate blocks, but not enough to get a dedicated rebate block yet. It helps that I have a big combi for the big machine, and a small one for both but I think very heavy shaper users where time is critical might go the separate block route. The nice thing about the combi is it is zero compromise in terms of performance.

I would try the combi head for pattern shaping before you get a spiral, as you may well find the cut quality more than good enough. I am making arched rails now and sent a picture of fluffy shavings you could see through to a friend from milling the rebate. Depending on the pattern milling you're doing, you may find the block has too large a diameter though. A set of bearings is nice, but a ring fence is very versatile and if I could pick only one it would be the ring fence I think.

I'm noticing that some of the rebate heads have 4 cutters to the combi head's 2. Wouldn't that result in a difference in cut quality and cutter life? Such as:
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/combi-heads/CBS004V3/
vs
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/rebate-heads/CBS002V3/



The best English language book on shapers is by Eric Stephenson and when you start going through it, it will blow your mind how much you can do. As soon as I got my first shaper, I stopped using the router table almost entirely as it just wasn't as enjoyable to use, nor did it give results as good. I have not done a rebate with the table saw since, or a groove near an edge and I use the shaper to bring boards down to final width using a back fence and the list goes on...

I look forward to learning more of the capabilities and how to integrate the machine into projects, your comments are really interesting to hear. Could you elaborate on how and what the use of a 'back fence' entails?


You might find setting yourself up to tenon on the shaper helpful too, just looking at the list of things you are going to get up to, though it might require additional investment.
This is a rebate block in conjunction with groovers, or two groovers set on the spindle at once?


Regardless of where you go, I do suggest MAN rated tooling which is designed for low kickback potential and won't autofeed your hand if the worst happens. Corrugated blocks are very handy and practical and though many folks don't realize it, they are available in limiting style too.

Could you explain what corrugated and serrated blocks are and their significance? What about when people say 'Euro block' is that another term for insert cutterhead?


Keith doesn't mind if I answer Whitehill questions here, but feel free to PM me if you prefer.

B

Will probably take you up on that when I'm ready to order specific cutterheads and profiles. Thanks!

[Joe Calhoon]

Nick, that green Rockwell - SCM shaper brings back some memories! That one looks to be in excellent shape considering it’s age. Probably mid 70s. Rockwell brought them in about then. SCM had a dealer before that bringing in the green L’invincables. Anout 1980 they went to the tan color then later SCM came in and it was SCMI. I had a Rockwell labeled SCM slider, T100 shaper and a JP combo at the time. So your starting with a capable machine that appears to be in good condition!

[Rod Sheridan]

More knives in the cutter means higher feed rates, cut quality will remain the same.

The back fence Brent refers to is what I call an outboard fence, a fence close to the operator, where the work is fed between the fence and the cutter, and profiles and dimensions in one pass. You can only do this with a stock feeder.

Here are some photographs of me using an outboard fence with a stock feeder to make flooring.

477697477698477699

You can cut one cheek of a tenon at once using a rebate head, or both using two tenon cutters or one adjustable groover turned inside out.

The shaper is the most indispensable machine in my shop…..Regards, Rod

[brent stanley]

Brent,

I'm reading your post with great curiosity; since you offered, I do have a few questions to ask



I'm noticing that some of the rebate heads have 4 cutters to the combi head's 2. Wouldn't that result in a difference in cut quality and cutter life? Such as:
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/combi-heads/CBS004V3/
vs
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/rebate-heads/CBS002V3/




I look forward to learning more of the capabilities and how to integrate the machine into projects, your comments are really interesting to hear. Could you elaborate on how and what the use of a 'back fence' entails?


This is a rebate block in conjunction with groovers, or two groovers set on the spindle at once?



Could you explain what corrugated and serrated blocks are and their significance? What about when people say 'Euro block' is that another term for insert cutterhead?



Will probably take you up on that when I'm ready to order specific cutterheads and profiles. Thanks!

Hi Nick, working on my wee little phone, so it's a bit hard to so multiple quotes but I'll try to answer questions one at a time:

All else equal, 4 cutters will do a couple of main things for you. It will permit a faster feed rate for a given surface finish but that's not terribly significant for normal feed rates, in low production, but what is significant is it leaves the option open for "dual sheer" which can really help. This means that the shear angle the knives are placed on is reversed every station around the cutting circle. This makes it more likely it will get through challenging grain with a good finish.


There are differences in jargon around the world but a back fence is referred to as an outboard fence too, but some confuse that with "outfeed" but once integrated into your workflow it's (IMO) a safer way to bring final boards down to final width than a hand fed cabinet saw and can give a better finish. I arrange my workflow and project load to allow me to bring stock down to final width and thickness in a couple of steps, with the first step leaving it only say 1/8" over size. When the time comes to bring it down to final dimensions, placing a straight edge (the outboard fence) a set distance from the maximum extent of the cutting arc allows you to powerfeed stock against the cutter rotation and do the equivalent of ripping to width on your cabinet saw...but with a power feeder that keeps fingers farther from sharp bits and knives that may give you a superior finish. Additionally, some blocks will permit adding a gentle chamfer and/or mild radius at the same time in the same pass! Normally this fence is added between the operator station and the block, but since you're dealing with the apex of a circle, there isn't actually any need for it to be anywhere in particular per se, though many aspects of your other machine assessories may dictate the most practical place to put it. I have one for the big machine that locks down with the Dovetail ways and I have an assortment of spacers that allow me predictably place it, whereas with the small machine I just clamp a straight edge to the table and carry on! It really only takes minutes to set up using a spacer of your final width. With many cutters removing the whole edge you can actually machine your profile WHILE bringing down to final width...ie. at the same time, saving a step! Sorry if that's too long winded....but that's still only a superficial summary! Doing this (and other operations!) incorrectly can give you a dangerous suborbital lumber launcher so don't use this paragraph as instructions, it's just the high points of the potential for the system.

I actually just posted a video on short tenoning on the spindle moulder which explains some of the options I have used for short tenons. I got a lot of questions from folks and just found it easier to do a video! It's not intended as an exhaustive list, nor to cover every detail, but tried to hit the high points. I will do a video on longer (3"+tenons) soon too. Let me know if you find it helpful.

Corrugated and serrated blocks are the same thing just different terminology on the two sides of the pond. The terms refer to how the removable knife is held in the block, in this case with nesting corrugations and a "wedge block". These blocks along with many others are very very versatile because they allow you to machine custom profiles and not be limited to whatever off the shelf profiles are available from a supplier. That said, many suppliers offer a number of profiles "off the shelf" that can serve your needs. Limiter heads (like Euroblocks for example) also hold replaceable HSS knives that are customizable but are held in the block differently (some find them easier to swap out) but the main benefit of both is the ability to buy one block, and use it to make an almost infinite variety of profiles just by changing out the relatively inexpensive knives. There are reasons why you would choose other options (like dedicated carbide insert heads for example) over corrugated/limiter heads but those reasons would depend on things like material being machined, work flow, volume produced, jigs and machines to be used etc etc etc....

Terminology can be a proper pain, but the term "euroblock" most often refers to a particular size of "limiter head or limiter block" that is designed to use the 40mm x 40mm knives that are most common in NA. Limiter blocks are also available in much larger sizes and function the exact same way, but for some reason the ones that take the 40mm x 40mm knives got their own special name!

Some people call an insert head any head into which you "insert" a replaceable knife, whereas some reserve that term for those that use carbide "inserts" (the wee, thin little tips) and call the heads that take customizable HSS knives limiter heads, though it should be pointed out that not all versions of these accept limiters so isn't a bomb proof name choice!

Anyway,sorry to write War and Peace at you but it's a big new world. That book will really help and so would Joe's course...it gets great reviews....the location's ok too. :)

[Nick Crivello]

Brent-

Think I just figured who that Dovetail Timberworks guy is…. Been watching your videos already! :D

[brent stanley]

Brent-

Think I just figured who that Dovetail Timberworks guy is…. Been watching your videos already! :D

Please excuse the covid haircut and paunch!

If you do the Instagram thing, there's lots of shaper content there too.

Cheers,
B

[Kevin Jenness]

I have a comatic dc40 feeder, and its excellent, but i am not as firm of a believer of "you have to have a feeder for a shaper". Feeders arent fool proof. I once had to shut down an operation at an alarming rate when my incorrect setup of the feeder allowed the work piece to begin to turn sideways and dip into the cutterhead. In other words, kind of a nightmare scenario. Thankfully, i shut things down half a second after i saw what was about to happen. Its also kind of a PITA to lift my feeder into place and get it setup correctly. I often hand feed parts when i only have a dozen to shape. As your confidence grows, it isnt dangerous or nerve-wracking. If you are worried, i recommend making a false-fence/zero clearance fence face. This simple jig makes the machine very safe for handfeeding profiles. Thats my opinion, if you are strapped for cash i would spend the money on cutters before $1,000+ on a feeder and waiting on future cutterheads.

Nothing is foolproof. It's a really good idea to reef on the fence and powerfeed and check the spindle lock and tool clearance before powering up.


A zero clearance fence or something like the Aigner that offers stock support close to the cutters is a good thing in any case. It might have prevented a bad kickback in the scenario above. For hand-feeding, hold-downs, guards, push blocks and man-rated tooling will increase safety.

The shop rule I mentioned above about having someone else check setups came in after the owner spun up a corrugated cutterhead without tightening the gibs and launched a knife into the wall 30 feet away. He was banished to the office after that. There are a lot of variables in shaper use to be aware of for safety, more so than with most other common machines.

A shaper with cutters and no feeder is better than one with a feeder and no cutters, but a feeder is safer and gives a smoother and more consistent result. I use the feeder whenever possible. Fortunately Nick's machine came with one. That looks like a nice clean machine that should serve well.

[Jared Sankovich]

A back /outboard fence can be anything laying around that is straight and thinner than the stock you are running. This is setup for a climb cut but it works conventionally. You can't use a outboard fence and certainly can't climb cut without a feeder.
477700

And a pic of a corrugated head.
477701

[Mitch schiffer]

If I had to start over buying cutters I would buy a groover, rabbiting head, a spiral insert head with template bearing, and a good set of cabinet door cutters. From there I would just buy cutters as needed. I prefer a dedicated cutter for each profile rather then a corrugated head and knifes. I have grown to like the freeborn cutters the best.

[Jared Sankovich]

If I had to start over buying cutters I would buy a groover, rabbiting head, a spiral insert head with template bearing, and a good set of cabinet door cutters. From there I would just buy cutters as needed. I prefer a dedicated cutter for each profile rather then a corrugated head and knifes. I have grown to like the freeborn cutters the best.

It's hard to beat corrugated for one offs or moulding profiles.

[Mike Stelts]

I haven't needed custom profiles; but, this conversation has me wondering... Can't custom profiles be made to fit a Euroblock?

[brent stanley]

I haven't needed custom profiles; but, this conversation has me wondering... Can't custom profiles be made to fit a Euroblock?

Absolutely, yup.

[Mike Kees]

Biggest difference is the height of profiles needed. I have corrugated heads 2",3"4" and 6" tall. My Euro blocks are 40mm. They come in other sizes as well but seem to be available mostly in 40mm high with some 50mm knives available. Oella saw and Tool will make up "combi" corrugated cutters that work in a corg head on your shaper but also have holes to fit the pin pattern (bolt holes) for my General International molder as well.

[Jared Sankovich]

I haven't needed custom profiles; but, this conversation has me wondering... Can't custom profiles be made to fit a Euroblock?

They can but it's considerably less common, costs more per inch and you still end up with a thinner knife. Most are using off the shelf 40mm blanks which like most of the commodity 40mm/50mm knives are not the greatest steel. Imho 40mm knives are great for stock profiles since they are dirt cheap. Anything other than stock it's typically cheaper for corrugated. That doesn't touch the 3x thickness profile projection limits (corrugated can have a lot more projection simply for the fact that 3/8 corrugared steel exists, and heads are availible in all heights possible.

[Jared Sankovich]

Biggest difference is the height of profiles needed. I have corrugated heads 2",3"4" and 6" tall. My Euro blocks are 40mm. They come in other sizes as well but seem to be available mostly in 40mm high with some 50mm knives available. Oella saw and Tool will make up "combi" corrugated cutters that work in a corg head on your shaper but also have holes to fit the pin pattern (bolt holes) for my General International molder as well.

The hussey pattern corrugated knives are nice but unless you have a 25? degree corrugated head the profile cut isn't the same between the moulder and shaper.

[Warren Lake]

every type of tooling has its working parameters. Like Mike I had a 6" corg head made for the woodmaster then any of that tooling can be used on the shaper or on the woodmaster. Simple machine but wood lays on its back, rubber rollers in and outfeed and a gear drive feed. Dial in whatever speed rater you want.

There are rules for projection and you can get corg up to 3/8" thick and Serrated edge same. Usual past rule is 4 times projection of the thickness though often seen it exceeded sometimes many times. In the old serrated collars the steel went right through the head and could go to the other side if it did not extend out. In corrugated it goes as deep as the groove in the head permits.

[Greg Quenneville]

Custom cutters can be made for a “Euroblock” type head. I will bang the drum for Whitehill again because their steel is excellent, and thick, and their blocks have limiters.

They made custom cutters for me in carbide for my 55x120 block.

Oella Saw also supplied me with a big cutter for my Schmidt corrugated head.
Dave at Oella is my other recommendation…plus he carries Freeborn and other brands too. It should be telling that I am willing to go around the world to deal with those two suppliers when I have a woodworking store 35 minutes away.

There are lots of suppliers of Euroblock cutters. Most of them are short use hobby stuff.

[Mike Kees]

Jared thanks for telling me this. I had a set of knives made to run in my molder for a profile I needed for base board a year ago. They were supposed to be the "combi" but ended up just being flat steel and not corrugated. My plan was to order only the combination knives in the future. So the actual cut profiles will be different ? Unless I have a corrugated cutter with the 25 Degree slots ?My molder does run the Hussey pattern knives which are bolted to a square cutter head with a small positioning lip at the bottom edge.

[Jared Sankovich]

Jared thanks for telling me this. I had a set of knives made to run in my molder for a profile I needed for base board a year ago. They were supposed to be the "combi" but ended up just being flat steel and not corrugated. My plan was to order only the combination knives in the future. So the actual cut profiles will be different ? Unless I have a corrugated cutter with the 25 Degree slots ?My molder does run the Hussey pattern knives which are bolted to a square cutter head with a small positioning lip at the bottom edge.

The cut profile changes with hook angle, more hook the more height compressed the profile becomes. It's the same if you run knives ground for 20 degree in a 12 degree head or vice-versa. The difference isn't huge but butting them together end to end will show a profile mismatch.

[brent stanley]

Custom cutters can be made for a “Euroblock” type head. I will bang the drum for Whitehill again because their steel is excellent, and thick, and their blocks have limiters.

They made custom cutters for me in carbide for my 55x120 block.

Oella Saw also supplied me with a big cutter for my Schmidt corrugated head.
Dave at Oella is my other recommendation…plus he carries Freeborn and other brands too. It should be telling that I am willing to go around the world to deal with those two suppliers when I have a woodworking store 35 minutes away.

There are lots of suppliers of Euroblock cutters. Most of them are short use hobby stuff.

The most common size knife for the euroblock in the EU is the 55mm high knife, and that knife collection has hundreds and hundreds of off-the-shelf profile options. I have a couple of limiter blocks that are 100mm high that take 6mm steel and even limiter style panel raisers. You're correct that the steel used by most manufacturers is vastly superior to that used in the little "three hole" 40mm knives. Whitehill won't have anything to do with those "three holers" as their quality is too poor. They are mass produced by one company in Germany and sold by Dimar, Felder, CMT, tools today etc

I have dozens of customers in North America who run 55 to 100mm high limiter blocks because it gives them access to custom profiles in a chip limiting, low kickback head. I think when Jared and I went through the math in a thread a while ago, off-the-shelf profiles are very similarly priced, but as soon as custom is required local corrugated is cheaper.

I was talking to a custom shop owner the other day who is now only interested in chip limiting tooling and said that ordering from the UK is not a problem if he is disciplined about ordering as soon as the customer comes in. If he does, knives always arrive before he is ready to use them. As a backup, he has a pile of blanks on the shelf he can grind if needed. That said, Whitehill has recently changed couriers and now stuff gets to central/eastern Canada in as little as 2 days somehow!

[Mike Stelts]

So, the advantage of corrugated heads is 1) when you need a profile taller than 40-50mm, and 2) ability corrugations to change the depth of cut?

[Jared Sankovich]

So, the advantage of corrugated heads is 1) when you need a profile taller than 40-50mm, and 2) ability corrugations to change the depth of cut?

Height of the profile, depth of the profile (convention is 3x the thickness of the steel) and generally cost.

The corrugations don't have anything to do with the depth of cut.

[brent stanley]

So, the advantage of corrugated heads is 1) when you need a profile taller than 40-50mm, and 2) ability corrugations to change the depth of cut?


Non-corrugated blocks that take HSS and carbide tipped, custom grindable knives are available up to 100mm high in 6mm steel, they're just not as common on this side of the pond. I believe your shaper is tiltable? This can help reach out a bit (depending on the profile), as do cone heads. Corrugated is around 8mm thick and can project out further, but also will allow for deeper peaks and valleys in the profile due to the strength offered by this thicker steel.

[Mike Kees]

Question for the Guru's ,I assume when you order corrugated knives you specify hook angle wanted ? I received all my corrugated heads when I purchased my Minimax shaper, looking at them yesterday and the 6'' tall one is a Titan that has four blade slots two at 12 degrees(I think) and two at 20 degrees . Obviously this head is meant to run with only two knives at a time with choice of angles. Which angle for what ? Is one more suitable for hardwood and one for softwood ? Or does the lower angle produce less tear out and more of a scrape type cut ?

[Joe Calhoon]

Mike, yes, always spec hook angle when ordering custom corrugated. For the dual pocket heads 20 degree is for softwood and 12 for hardwoods. I have a 15 degree Zuani head that I prefer to the dual pocket heads. It does well in most types of material.
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[Mike Kees]

Thanks Joe. My other two heads have 15 degree pockets.

[Jared Sankovich]

Mike, yes, always spec hook angle when ordering custom corrugated. For the dual pocket heads 20 degree is for softwood and 12 for hardwoods. I have a 15 degree Zuani head that I prefer to the dual pocket heads. It does well in most types of material.
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Joe, I didn't know you got your knives from Neil. That magnet is nice. I couldn't find mine the other day and resorted to using the mag base of a dial indicator.

[Joe Calhoon]

Jared, Neil does a amazing job on grinding! A cut above the rest for sure.