Delta vs Ritter shaper Q's

[Nick Crivello]

Looking for input on whether to stick with a Delta shaper or go with something more robust.

About 6 months ago I picked up a 3hp delta 43-431 series shaper with Maggi/Steff 0.5hp feeder for a fair price. It had two router bit adaptors but no spindle (?!). Eventually got my hands on the weird 3/4" spindle from Renovo parts, no nuts or lock washer included though. The cartridge/bearing assembly could use a rebuild at some point.

After more research, it seems like I probably should've held out for something a bit more robust with better parts availability and a 1-1/4" spindle. Came across a 2005 7.5hp 3ph Ritter R10125753 that's been sitting on craigslist for a month at $2k obo.

Kinda wondering if I should consider the Ritter or keep going with the Delta. Don't know much about Ritter and parts availability, only that it doesn't look like they're still making shapers.

I'm a hobbyist with a small work space but would like to start furniture builds on a side-gig basis. Potential uses include template profiling, edge work, tenoning, grooves. Not so much doors, floors, molding, and production stuff. Was thinking of starting with a combi head and groover from Whitehill and go from there.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

[Mike Kees]

I would sell that Delta. Unless all the work you will be doing is small scale. You will out grow that machine very fast. The spindle cartridge is very small with small bearings that will be overworked with any steel body cutter heads. I ran a Steel City 3 hp for about ten years, used router bits for about the first 8 years. I started using shaper cutters when I purchased a CMT aluminum euro block with about 10 sets of knives. I used a small steel bodied rebate head from Freeborn for about a year and that took out the spindle bearings. I have had a Delta in my shop like the one you have right beside this shaper (Steel City) and it had a quite a bit heavier build. My take now is I would not consider a machine with less than a 1 1/4'' spindle and preferably 5 hp.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Agreed (in less words.)

Only Ritter I have seen is a 3 spindle/motor monster at a friend’s shop, but never ran one.

If you’re willing to deal with 3 phase you can get a really robust machine (5-9 hp with 1 1/4” spindle) for $2-3k or maybe less if you hunt for it. I’m happy with my little old SCM L’invicibile T100 - 5HP, 1 1/4”, 2 speed, but would love a 9 HP machine as well, and a dedicated sliding table / titling spindle machine....shapers are one of the most versatile and valuable tools in the shop if you’re willing to learn and invest in tooling, which can be considerable.

[brent stanley]

Those Ritters are heavier than the Deltas without question, but very simple machines and nothing special for quality. Not sure what the used machine prices are like in your area, but 2k sound like a lot. I agree you will outgrow the Delta, and will come to love the shaper. A matching bearing with that combi head makes a pretty nice pattern milling settup is the curves aren't too tight.

[Nick Crivello]

The local craigslist is littered with small shapers in the 1.5-3hp range; Compared to the other woodworking machines, shapers are something I don't know much about. Trying to change that.

The Ritter does seem a bit overpriced, been sitting for a month. It is the Bay Area however, everything is distorted here... Waiting to get an email back, maybe he's willing to deal on it.

Did see a well used SCM T130 (?) I think it was with sliding table etc. for $750 a while back, wish I'd been able to jump on that one.

Almost everything in the shop is 3ph at this point...may as well look for a shaper to add to the club. :)

[Kevin Jenness]

I remember seeing one comment about Ritter machines the gist of which was "The best thing about them is you can get replacement parts at any hardware store." I don't know if that is fair.

I would be looking for a used European shaper with multiple speeds, a 1 1/4" spindle and a power feeder. They will almost always be three phase and over 5 hp. An SCMI T110 is a nice size machine if you can find one. You can find solid old single speed American machines for low $ but they are not very flexible. The Delta is ok for light/moderate use and they did make a solid 1" spindle but for serious work it is limited.

1 1/4" tooling is the way to go, but if you have a legacy of 3/4" tools then a 3/4" interchangeable spindle is nice to have, If you use the shaper much it won't be long before your tooling investment overtakes the cost of the machine.

[Nick Crivello]

I remember seeing one comment about Ritter machines the gist of which was "The best thing about them is you can get replacement parts at any hardware store." I don't know if that is fair.

I would be looking for a used European shaper with multiple speeds, a 1 1/4" spindle and a power feeder. They will almost always be three phase and over 5 hp. An SCMI T110 is a nice size machine if you can find one. You can find solid old single speed American machines for low $ but they are not very flexible. The Delta is ok for light/moderate use and they did make a solid 1" spindle but for serious work it is limited.

1 1/4" tooling is the way to go, but if you have a legacy of 3/4" tools then a 3/4" interchangeable spindle is nice to have, If you use the shaper much it won't be long before your tooling investment overtakes the cost of the machine.

Your suggestion is the way you guys have successfully pushed me. Have a line on a 9hp 3ph SCM t120c that I'm seriously considering.

More than I really wanted to spend right now, but such is life. :rolleyes:

[Paul Haus]

I'm going to go against the trend a little here. As I understand you already own the Delta and at least 1 spindle (3/4" as I understand it). You want to possibly make furniture but if I'm reading it right you haven't done any yet. Personally I'd try what you have first and insure you 'want' to build furniture before spending a lot more. You can get a Shellix head and bearing that will do pattern work well even with only 3 HP. You can get a 1" spindle for your machine IIRC and 1" to 1 1/4" adapters so that would allow upgrading later if desired.
I'd try it a little first, you may not want to made furniture over time and this way you can check it out first and whether it's something you want to do long term or not before sinking a lot of additional $$ into it.
Me, I have a 3 HP shaper with 1/2", 3/4" and 1" spindles along with a router bit adapter (which I don't use very much) for it and a wide range of cutters including a Shellix head for it. I make a lot of moldings, raised panel doors, furniture part pattern duplication with it. I don't do as much any more since I retired but in it's day I put a lot of wood through it. I never considered anything bigger because I have a basement shop and no way to get a bigger machine in.
Like I said, try what you have and insure it's what you want to do first. Then if you want to upgrade you know what you want or need rather than just go out and buy something then find out it's not right for you.
My 2 cents.

[Bobby Robbinett]

That Delta is a solid well built machine that I would be happy with for making stiles and rails. It has decent sized bearings which are larger than a Grizzly 1026 3HP shaper. I would keep it and try to find another Delta so that you could leave one setup for stiles and the other for rails. I have made thousands of doors at my job on that same Delta. It is not the most optimal machine for making raised panels but it will absolutely make them. I used to do 2 passes on poplar raised panels on a Delta just like that. That Ritter is a great machine but for what you are doing that Delta is fine. Parts are standard off the shelf type stuff that is plentiful on eBay. Bearings are available everywhere. And those spindles are super simple to rebuild

[Billy Stray]

I have the same Delta shaper now, I used to have two , (sold one about 3 weeks ago for $1250.00) I needed 2 when I was building a lot of raised panel wall systems. They were great for the task but I have out grown them.
I'm keeping one because the 3/4 spindle tooling I have far exceeds the worth of the machine.
I am also in the market for something bigger.
I don't think the price is all that bad on that Ritter considering the very speedy sale I made for one of my small Delta's

[Mike Kees]

Tooling is one of the main reasons that I moved on from my small shaper. Thankfully I had not purchased many 3/4'' cutters. I did run some 1 1/4'' cutters bushed down on my 1'' spindle but found that the 1 1/4'' were heavier /more substantial and larger diameter than I was comfortable running a lot. If there is one thing I miss it would be the router bit collet. I actually used it a fair bit. Sometimes it was a great problem solver.

[Jared Sankovich]

Imho get the scmi.

Sell the delta, they are over priced currently I assume because they work easily in a home shop. You can almost come out even.

[Billy Stray]

Imho get the scmi.


Sell the delta, they are over priced currently I assume because they work easily in a home shop. You can almost come out even.
Good point I sold one recently & got $1,250
Very quickly. I probably could have asked $1,400

[Nick Crivello]

Paid 1400 for the delta with steff feeder.

the scm is several orders more expensive.

[Jared Sankovich]

Paid 1400 for the delta with steff feeder.

the scm is several orders more expensive.

Not accounting for year, condition or location, several orders more seems high. I'm assuming around 4500? 3k to 3500 is what I would expect to see a 80s or 90s t130.

[Nick Crivello]

Not accounting for year, condition or location, several orders more seems high. I'm assuming around 4500? 3k to 3500 is what I would expect to see a 80s or 90s t130.

Barely used, complete package scm t120c 9hp with Europa v8 feeder for 3500.

[Jared Sankovich]

Barely used, complete package scm t120c 9hp with Europa v8 feeder for 3500.

OK that's in line with what I'd expect. I'd also expect you can get more than $1400 for your delta currently.