Should I bother finding a saw with a DRO or figure out how to attach my Incra?

[Kurt Wyberanec]

As many of you have seen I'm in the market for a slider... to get a unit, new or used, that has a dro on the rip fence is both hard to find and very expensive.

I have one machine new that has one and I've looked at a couple of used that have, but am I driving myself nuts for something that may or may not be worthwhile? Mind you, I cannot afford a new automated machine, nor do I think I need one... but most of my work is specific product work that requires repeatable exact size pieces and I need to be able to do that. I have been using an incra fence on my cabinet saw for 15 years and I find it indispensable and extremely accurate.

My only real issue with it is that even though I have the 50" version you really can only get 32" of rip capability... which to me seems like a rip... no pun intended.

Now, it's so quick to work to the 32nd that I am quite sure it will be faster than a dro, but it might be a pia to adapt to the saw, as typical sliders have deeper tables than cabinet saws so I might have to come up with some custom pieces.

Have any of you adapted an incra to a full size slider? Do you think it was a good choice. Do you think a dro would be better? I could probably save a lot of money taking it off my wish list but I really need a good solution to fit my needs and budget.

I know some are going to say that on a slider I'll be using the crosscut fence more, and you're right, but I plan on using the rip as a stop...a lot... and possibly down the line adding dro crosscut stops or some other good alternative.

Anyway, appreciate opinions and ideas, thanks.

[Richard Coers]

I've gone 50 years without a digital readout on my traditional table saws and a short stroke Griggio slider. 24 of those years were as a professional woodworker. No one can make the decision for you, but I think I've done some really nice work without the aide of one, both commercial and residential.

[johnny means]

My experience is that the Incra system is more reliable. DROs, accept for those that read from motor revolution, need to be monitored and calibrated more often than I'd like. They're precision is great, but they do require a little care.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Totally appreciate what you're saying Richard, and you're absolutely right for all sorts of work.

In my case a good amount of the work I do is oem work and if a piece requires a 19 1/32 opening I need to be able to produce that every time not 19 3/64 etc. I'm not saying it has to be so high of standards or anything it's just what my customers need... the other big thing is I do a lot of dovetail case work and likewise pieces that are even a hair of end up needing square trimming and likewise causes a lot more work.

For lots of other things I do sighting a scale by eye is perfectly fine.

[Richard Coers]

Totally appreciate what you're saying Richard, and you're absolutely right for all sorts of work.

In my case a good amount of the work I do is oem work and if a piece requires a 19 1/32 opening I need to be able to produce that every time not 19 3/64 etc. I'm not saying it has to be so high of standards or anything it's just what my customers need... the other big thing is I do a lot of dovetail case work and likewise pieces that are even a hair of end up needing square trimming and likewise causes a lot more work.

For lots of other things I do sighting a scale by eye is perfectly fine.
If I couldn't hit closer than 1/64", I'd quit. Sounds like you should be shopping for a CNC instead of a slider.

[Greg Quenneville]

I would get the slider and then consider how best to achieve that kind of repeatability. It maybe that parallel ripping guides and clamps give you the best solution for that.

You can make your own air clamps or buy custom (nice!! $$!!). Same for the parallel ripping guides.

[Bobby Robbinett]

You could possibly set up your Incra on the left crosscut side too and forgo the stops on the crosscut fence. Otherwise it would be simple to setup your Incra in place of the rip fence. You can get an Accurate Technologies DRO for your slider for a very reasonable amount of money. I wouldn’t be concerned with finding a slider with a dro because DRO’s are relatively inexpensive and easy to get

[Kevin Jenness]

Get a decent slider and put a dro on it. Accurate Technology makes ProScale kits that can be adapted to most saws and they are generally considered reliable. https://www.proscale.com/products/industry-applications/woodworking-cabinets/907-3037-001/ A dro on both the rip fence and crosscut fence would be best, but if I had to choose one I would opt for the crosscut fence as working on the carriage side is the slider's strength.

I can't see putting an Incra rip fence on a slider as it would appear to preclude adjusting the fore and aft position of the fence bar which to me is essential. As well, the Incra setup requires considerable room to the right of the saw to use its full range.

Sam Blasco appears to have a nice Incra setup on his sliding saw carriage which might work for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8mPBm2VdY&t=136s If you were to get in touch with him I suspect he would be helpful.

[Jim Becker]

Finding a saw with an integral DRO makes for a harder search when it comes to older machinery and there is the advancement of technology that could present challenges for maintenance should said older DRO cease to function. There are some high quality DRO systems that can be attached to a rip fence on almost any saw. Ask yourself just how much you'll be using said rip fence and whether or not you'll benefit from the investment. For me, I only use the rip fence on a slider as a "last resort" or for certain kinds of small cuts that I prefer to do with the low fence setup and a push block.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Get a decent slider and put a dro on it. Accurate Technology makes ProScale kits that can be adapted to most saws and they are generally considered reliable. https://www.proscale.com/products/industry-applications/woodworking-cabinets/907-3037-001/ A dro on both the rip fence and crosscut fence would be best, but if I had to choose one I would opt for the crosscut fence as working on the carriage side is the slider's strength.

I can't see putting an Incra rip fence on a slider as it would appear to preclude adjusting the fore and aft position of the fence bar which to me is essential. As well, the Incra setup requires considerable room to the right of the saw to use its full range.

Sam Blasco appears to have a nice Incra setup on his sliding saw carriage which might work for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8mPBm2VdY&t=136s If you were to get in touch with him I suspect he would be helpful.


Finding a saw with an integral DRO makes for a harder search when it comes to older machinery and there is the advancement of technology that could present challenges for maintenance should said older DRO cease to function. There are some high quality DRO systems that can be attached to a rip fence on almost any saw. Ask yourself just how much you'll be using said rip fence and whether or not you'll benefit from the investment. For me, I only use the rip fence on a slider as a "last resort" or for certain kinds of small cuts that I prefer to do with the low fence setup and a push block.

Kevin, I don't like that room on the right needed either, especially since a slider takes up so much already... that said the movable fence isn't really an issue because you can easily add another auxiliary fence on it as it has t slots already on it.

I've seen the small incra sam uses as a parallel guide and it's already been on my mind.

Jim, I guess the issue is since it's a new tool to me I don't really know how I'm going to be using it till I start. I'm guessing there will be a crossover period of using it as a cabinet saw till I learn more slider technique, but ultimately I'm looking for the machine to enhance my capabilities, increase safety, and overall allow for more precise work in a quick fashion. The downside has been picking something and understanding the features since most of these companies really don't explain what they offer in options and how they're used! And if used, that challenge goes up.

My biggest concern, even though some think it shouldn't be, is that I feel like without one of these fence options that I am going to instantly lose the perfect repeatability factor that I've had for the last 15 years since I bought the incra, and how that might impact my work and work flow... mostly cause I've just gotten used to it.

[glenn bradley]

Part of the challenge can be familiarity with a system. I run a simple Wixey DRO on my Saw Stop. I have moved this same system from two previous saws. I would hate to be without it. The ability to measure absolutes and switch to incremental at the touch of a button has become a part of how I work and how I think about operations I am going to do so I get that ;-) I do generally check the zero reference when I start for the day or before a super critical operation but this is just habitual and takes a couple of seconds. I would run your new machine for a while to get used to the differences in the operation of it and then look for the best solution for quick, repeatable setup.

[Jim Becker]

Kurt, unless you get a short stroke slider, you'll be hard pressed to be comfortable using a slide like a cabinet saw for ripping unless it's wider panels. The support structure for the wagon is right about at the place where most folks like to stand with a cabinet saw. For narrow rips, you learn to work from the wagon side. None of that has anything to do with actually setting the fence, of course, and an accurate fence is a good thing. Most sliders have the scale dead on to the fence face and it's easy to set the fence visually, but a DRO certainly can help with repeatable "super accuracy", within reason.

[Mike Kees]

Kurt my take on this ,you need to connect with someone to try out a sliding saw. You are way over thinking every aspect of what and how and why that would be crystal clear in like half an hour of use. I found so many things were so intuitive as soon as I made a few cuts. Myself I use the whole saw, what I mean is that I figure the rip fence on the right is meant to be used. I rip with it, use it constantly as a bump stop to cut quick repeatable pieces and if I need a piece say 24''x 30" I will set my crosscut fence for one dimension on the wagon and my rip fence for the other. Make one cut then flip piece 90 degrees and make the other cut. I think that just using what is there to begin with will alter your world, worry about upgrades after you have a slider and have used it for a while. Hope this helps you.

[andy bessette]

...it's so quick to work to the 32nd...

Both my Unifence and Beismeyer fences are repeatable to a very small fraction of that. It would be a mighty poor fence that would only get you within 1/32".
Why complicate things by searching for a unicorn?

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Kurt my take on this ,you need to connect with someone to try out a sliding saw. You are way over thinking every aspect of what and how and why that would be crystal clear in like half an hour of use. I found so many things were so intuitive as soon as I made a few cuts. Myself I use the whole saw, what I mean is that I figure the rip fence on the right is meant to be used. I rip with it, use it constantly as a bump stop to cut quick repeatable pieces and if I need a piece say 24''x 30" I will set my crosscut fence for one dimension on the wagon and my rip fence for the other. Make one cut then flip piece 90 degrees and make the other cut. I think that just using what is there to begin with will alter your world, worry about upgrades after you have a slider and have used it for a while. Hope this helps you.

Thanks Mike, I totally hear you and I have played around with a few... most of my questions are related to the purchase not the use... I'm frustrated with trying to find a used saw that has everything in looking for (only 1 or 2 so far and couldn't get them) and most new ones are beyond my budget...I guess what I'm looking for is people's opinions who have used both dro and incra and can help me decide which is better for what I need

As I said I already have the incra so would be great to use it unless I sell it but it might be more frustration trying to adapt it than it's worth, a dro might prove an even better option or more difficult I don't know. I used one recently and it was accurate but I noted 2 things....a) it was definitely slower to dial in than my incra b) because they have difference reference ability it might be easier to make mistakes if I don't take the time to notice which origin.

Right now I have 3 saws on my plate, 2 would require either an add on dro or adaptation of the incra, the other comes with a dro.... problem is comparing that with their relative prices to what they would cost me all in.... balancing act trying to figure out which features are worth what to me

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Both my Unifence and Beismeyer fences are repeatable to a very small fraction of that. It would be a mighty poor fence that would only get you within 1/32".
Why complicate things by searching for a unicorn?

After I switched from my beis to the incra I can't tell you the difference it makes... it is imo a far superior fence having used both and the uni styles as you I cannot go back... it will be either a typical rod micro adjust slider fence with a dro or implementing the incra... yes I could use a regular fence and still do good work but it is not even close to as consistent and a lot matters what kind of work you're doing....

If I were making typical case goods or furniture I completely agree with you, but some of my stuff deals with incorporating metal chassis cut to thousandths then wrapped with vinyl in very arbitrary measurements again in thousandths and then I have to leave very exact relief... yes I can eyeball a line and probably hit it the majority of the time but doing it over dozens of components you're bound to miss 1 here or there the wrong way and then you've lost time and $, this is one of the biggest reasons production facilities have switched to cnc style saws to gain precision, reduce waste, and reduce time.

So yes, you can do gorgeous work with a traditional fence but it's not necessarily the most consistent or reliable way... but that depends a lot on use and needs

Again just looking for opinions on one vs the other not really interested in using a regular fence anymore. But thanks for the thoughts.

[Phillip Mitchell]

You might consider looking at / talking with Accurate Technologies and their Pro Scale DROs. Among the best in the business and they certainly have an option that you could adapt to a sliding saw rip or crosscut fence and be just as accurate or more so than your Incra.

[Kevin Jenness]

The Incra fence system looks pretty slick, accurate and adjustable in small increments. I can see why you like it. I would find it a poor fit in my shop with the space required to get a 48" rip width but maybe you have the room or don't need the greater rip capacity.

I don't see any problems using a decent dro as long as you check the registration. If you need a slider and you need precision settings then the cost of a saw and dros are the cost of doing business.

I think if you do get a slider you will find that a dro on the crosscut fence will be at least as useful as on the rip fence. I often do repetitive crosscuts using the rip fence as a stop then make the last cut using the crosscut stop which has to match exactly. I get by with the stock fence/stops but if I needed the added precision I would budget $1500 for a couple of dros without sweating over it.

[Kurt Wyberanec]

The Incra fence system looks pretty slick, accurate and adjustable in small increments. I can see why you like it. I would find it a poor fit in my shop with the space required to get a 48" rip width but maybe you have the room or don't need the greater rip capacity.

I don't see any problems using a decent dro as long as you check the registration. If you need a slider and you need precision settings then the cost of a saw and dros are the cost of doing business.

I think if you do get a slider you will find that a dro on the crosscut fence will be at least as useful as on the rip fence. I often do repetitive crosscuts using the rip fence as a stop then make the last cut using the crosscut stop which has to match exactly. I get by with the stock fence/stops but if I needed the added precision I would budget $1500 for a couple of dros without sweating over it.

Completely agree... I've gotten by for a lot of my cross cutting with my miter bar which is only a mid grade incra 1000se... reason I love that too is because it's also indexed too the 32nd so you're never wondering... works very well but only supports 27 inches anything over that goes on my radial with a stop.

I also agree that the crosscut dro may in fact be more important but none in my price range come with it so it will be an add on down the road... still have to settle on a saw lol

[Greg Parrish]

Here is a saw with all digital read out's if that's what you are after. Not my listing but just noticed it. Very nice looking saw though. :)

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3002890406594455/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Acb950027-2e8e-4370-a799-593c0aa07ce3

[Kurt Wyberanec]

Here is a saw with all digital read out's if that's what you are after. Not my listing but just noticed it. Very nice looking saw though. :)

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3002890406594455/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Acb950027-2e8e-4370-a799-593c0aa07ce3

That's a sweet machine but way out of my budget... not really looking for the whole automatic thing just the read outs. Thanks!

[Derek Cohen]

After I switched from my beis to the incra I can't tell you the difference it makes...

Kurt, there appear to be a couple of misconceptions about a slider that come up in your posts.

The most important one is that you are considering the rip fence to be so supremely important. The value of a slider lies in its broad range of abilities, one is for the wagon to crosscut, and another is for the wagon to rip. I have a short stroke slider (Hammer K3 with 1250 wagon), which suits my needs (and space) better than a longer wagon, however I can and do rip on the wagon.

The choice of guide for ripping on the wagon varies from using a shoe at the end, to a parallel guide and to a Fritz and Franz fixture. Your Incra could make a good parallel guide.

Here is a short article I short on the F&F vs a parallel guide: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/FandFvsPG.html

I very much doubt that you will find a slider with a factory installed DRO unless it is very expensive or top of a range.

Your original interest in adding a DRO to the main tip fence is still a sound one. While some have sworn off their ripping this way, I use my rip fence as well, and not just as a bump stop. The fence which came with my K3 is a particularly good one, and has the ability to slide back and shorten, to fold down to reduce its profile, and has a micro-adjust, which is simply superb. I added a Wixey DRO (I have 72 year old eyes) and this has proved to be wonderfully reliable and made repeatable settings easier.

For this eagle eyes, this was taken before the micro-adjust was added …

https://i.postimg.cc/MGhFd4wj/1a.jpg

And here is a close up with the micro-adjust …

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0v4fWw7/1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

Derek, your mention of the high/low fence that's typical on sliders also would come into play with any kind of DRO...it would really complicate things because there would be a need for two different "zeros" due to the fact that the fence is a different width when in the high position than when in the low position. I can absolutely see the benefit of a DRO on an outrigger fence for crosscut, etc., however.

[Derek Cohen]

I can absolutely see the benefit of a DRO on an outrigger fence for crosscut, etc.

Jim, I completely agree with you. This would be great - I am not yet clear on how to attach one to mine.

What I do have is a very clear scale with a dead accurate stop. It is easy to set. Plus I built and added a micro-adjust to the stop, and this enable cuts to be adjusted literally in microns should it be needed.

https://i.postimg.cc/g0HgMT6R/Crosscut-Fence-Micro-Adjust2-html-m2c7dfdb0.jpg

Not elegant, but it works very well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

I never had an issue getting a stop fixed accurately on my outrigger or my short miter fence on the slider and for the amount of use I put on the machines, a DRO wouldn't pay on that tool. (It would pay on the thicknesser and I do have one on my drum sander) But folks who are doing a lot of adjustments on the stops for production work would likely benefit from the DRO setup as it would be easier to get it spot on at a glance where "time is money".

[Chris Parks]

I never had an issue getting a stop fixed accurately on my outrigger or my short miter fence on the slider and for the amount of use I put on the machines, a DRO wouldn't pay on that tool. (It would pay on the thicknesser and I do have one on my drum sander) But folks who are doing a lot of adjustments on the stops for production work would likely benefit from the DRO setup as it would be easier to get it spot on at a glance where "time is money".

I think there is a terminology problem creeping in to sliding table saw discussions in general that creates some problems for new users. Wagon/sliding table, mitre fence/cross cut fence and most probably more.

DRO's have a particular problem, The DRO can be set up for one particular fence/blade configuration on the rip fence but change any part of that configuration as pointed out above and the DRO loses zero. I have multiple blades and change them as needed and using the Wixey DRO it is a PIA to re-calibrate it to zero for a couple of cuts. When I initially put the Wixey on the saw many years ago the problem did not exist because I never found the need to change the blade.

I have been playing around with a DRO on the K3 outrigger CC fence for a few years now I think I may have the answer but with the frustration created by blade changes I have not rushed into it. I am trying to think of a quick method of calibration using a different DRO to make the change a simple matter. Maybe a calibrated length of material to set the flip stop then zero the fence has been floating around in the brain cells lately.

[Mark e Kessler]

Only issue with adding an encoder strip DRO to a slider is it is clunky and not as clean as integrated, doesn’t mean it won’t work as I have done it both ways.

Problem with the aftermarket on the rip (except a mag strip dro) is that you can’t rotate the fence out of the way without mickey mousing the install then mickey mousing around to make it work. Not a big deal but i like to be able to do that when needed.

Problem on the xcut is the encoder rail needs to be mounted on the face of the fence so now you can’t use it in the forward position, I had an scmi with an accurate technology dro for many years mounted like this but only used that saw for busting up sheet goods all day long every day. Now i use the fence in the forward position most of the time working with hardwoods and only move it if i need to straight line long lumber or sheet goods. Plus one benefit for me is I actually have more space to move around in my tight shop as it moves the fence back and i move the outrigger back some so the slider is always kinda centered with the blade if that makes any sense. Also with the encoder on the face of the fence and the readout mounted on a bracket makes removing it a little more tricky.

It is best to have dro on the xcut and the rip with them both agreeing

Your work getting better because you have DRO is debatable, but efficiency, repeatability is not

[Mark e Kessler]

Jim with some Dro’s (maybe all?) have an offset that you can input. Mine does just that, I have a block of x dim and I simply bump the fence in the high or low position against that block (block goes against a fixed part on the saw) push a button and it is set. Of course on higher end saws there is a sensor (or limit switch of some sort) that detects the position and adjusts the dro accordingly (assuming out of price range of op…)



Derek, your mention of the high/low fence that's typical on sliders also would come into play with any kind of DRO...it would really complicate things because there would be a need for two different "zeros" due to the fact that the fence is a different width when in the high position than when in the low position. I can absolutely see the benefit of a DRO on an outrigger fence for crosscut, etc., however.

[Jim Becker]

Chris, I eliminated any issues with blade width by standardizing on a blade that's .125" kerf...in my case Forrest...for any configurations I use. It just so happens that the high-tooth count blade that shipped with the slider I owned was also exactly .125" kerf for whatever reason. Folks who use a variety of blades from a variety of manufacturers most certainly will have to deal with what you describe for any DRO situation where blade width comes into play.