Lie Nielsen honing guide question

[James Jayko]

Hey all, after years of struggling with the veritas mark II sharpening jig, I just got the Lie Nielsen one and it’s great. I made a projection stop. I have seen folks use a shim to set the depth for the secondary bevel; should I use ~1/8”? Should I just do the secondary bevel at 30 degrees? Any advice here greatly appreciated!

[Scott Winners]

I hollow grind most irons at 25 degrees on the electric grinder and use the 30 mark on my depth stop for the honing guide.

[Matt Hunstiger]

I have the Lie Nielsen honing guide too and I also made a board with projection stops. I've been using a 1/8" shim for the secondary bevel on a 25 degree primary bevel, and it seems to work fine. I'm a bit of a beginner though, so I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

[Rob Luter]

I made a board with projection stops to set the primary angle too. I set stops in 5 degree increments. When I want to add a small secondary bevel I just loosen the guide a bit and back the blade off 1/8". It works great, and since the angle is so small any imprecision due to eyeballing it is irrelevant. The next time I touch it up it's replaced. If I need a perfect 5 degree difference I just reset the blade to the next projection.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51980392182_8d77346b24_b.jpg

[Tony Shea]

I personally just use 1 stop set for the 30 deg bevel. Once the micro bevel gets too large I just go back to the grinder and re-do the primary. I rarely use any other stops. Once in a while I will break out a bevel up plane to deal with heavy figure and create a 45 deg bevel to get a 57deg planing angle. These days I don't often use those planes. Whatever gets the job done the quickest without compromising the quality of your edge is the answer. I like to spend as little time sharpening as possible.

[James Jayko]

I agree with you 100%. The less time sharpening, the better. Does a 30 degree secondary bevel hold up better, or is a shallower secondary bevel, say, 27 degrees, hold a superior edge? Or am I thinking way too hard about this? I feel like the answer is definitely yes.

[James Jayko]

I'm not sure if anyone cares or is following this thread, but if you're torn between the two (Veritas Mk II vs Lie Nielsen), I can say the LN is FAR superior IMO. The Veritas is exceptionally well made but "too clever by half," as my mom would say. The downward pressure of the Veritas (vs the lateral pressure of the LN) seemed to insure that the blade would move, even slightly, on me every time I tried to sharpen a plane blade. And if your blade isn't square/your bevel isn't consistent, you've got nothing.

I've only sharpened a few things so far, but the design of the LN seems to be just about perfect. My two cents.

[Rob Luter]

I had a full Veritas Mk II Deluxe kit for a few years. It was really nice, but rather fussy. I lined the standard blade clamp with leather to keep the blade or chisel from moving. A couple years ago I completely revamped my sharpening system from the MKII + Abrasive film on glass to the LN guide with a couple Shapton stones. It's simpler, faster, and very effective.

[James Jayko]

Are you using the Shapton glass stones? I’ve been using the Japanese water stones from Lie Nielsen and they are great, but I’m curious about the Shaptons. How do you like them?

[Richard Hutchings]

Having just entered the honing guide club after free handing for so many years, I'm a little dismayed by this post. I bought the MK2 and am loving it. I hope I'm not going to want to upgrade at some point. So far I find it a delight to use and haven't had any issues. It's built like a tank. Maybe it's because I'm in no particular hurry to get things sharpened, maybe that will change someday. In the meantime, happy sharpening using whatever method.

[James Jayko]

Having just entered the honing guide club after free handing for so many years, I'm a little dismayed by this post. I bought the MK2 and am loving it. I hope I'm not going to want to upgrade at some point. So far I find it a delight to use and haven't had any issues. It's built like a tank. Maybe it's because I'm in no particular hurry to get things sharpened, maybe that will change someday. In the meantime, happy sharpening using whatever method.

Maybe its just an issue with mine, I'm not really sure. But I have found it quite fiddly to set up, and I've found the hold down method (screwed down from above versus clamped from the sides) to be inconsistent. I've had blades in the jig move a few times. I guess like all things sharpening, YMMV. Whatever works best for whoever has to do the sharpening is the best solution for sure.

[Aaron Liebling]

I use the V2 with shapton stones and love both. There are a very few of my chisels that don't seem to set totally square in the guide, but I know them and correct slightly for it

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I bought the Mk II and subsequently, with the exception of the cambered wheel, the add-ons that facilitate sharpening odd blades (skew, mortise, etc.). Even though I love and have a lot of LN tools, I’m not willing to invest in another sharpening jig. I’ve come to terms with the deficiencies of the Mk II and find that if I tighten everything with a pliers it holds the blade well. Be sure to cover the jaws of the pliers with duct tape.

[Richard Hutchings]

Ah, I have yet to sharpen a chisel with it and I don't have the narrow blade accessories. I think I'll just continue sharpening them free hand. I've always been satisfied sharpening chisels freehand anyway. It was my plane irons that seemed like the could be done better with a guide. I think it's important to keep them square and with proper bevels. Chisels, not so much.

[Rob Luter]

Are you using the Shapton glass stones? I’ve been using the Japanese water stones from Lie Nielsen and they are great, but I’m curious about the Shaptons. How do you like them?

I like them a lot. Here's a thread that goes into detail: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?287898

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50988878701_f02602a1bb_c.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

LN vs Veritas Mk ll? They are both excellent honing guides, and each takes a different approach, and in this they are not the same. They are complimentary.

I have both. I have the very first Mk ll from the factory (a story for another day), sufficient to add that I have a personal connection with this guide . I have every accessory that comes with the Mk ll, and they all work perfectly.

So why do I also have the LN? The simple answer is that most of the time I do not need all the features offered by the Mk ll. If I needed to hone a skew, the Mk ll would be the one to use. If a special bevel angle was needed that the quick projection I made did not cater for, the Mk ll would be able to achieve this. The small blade accessory for the Mk ll is easier to use than the LN. I have two Mk ll guides. One is permanently set up with the small blade accessory and the wide, flat wheel, and dedicated to honing chisels (for times when Japanese chisels are given a service, or when changing a bevel angle and there is a wack of work to do). This wheel ensures a square edge.

Most of the time I hollow grind plane and chisel blades and freehand hone. However, a honing guide is needed for BU plane blades as the micro secondary bevel needed to be completed at a specific angle. Generally this is 50 degrees in my BU planes, and it is much simpler, and quicker, to use the LN for this. Slide in the blade, use a projection jig, and away you go. The are times when KIS prevails.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Hughes]

I would like to share method I use the sharp skate from Hap. I really like it with the side sharpening method. It pretty easy to learn and I can use the surface of the stone differently then the push pull method. Might even be a slight advantage.
Another part of my setup that’s different is I use a water hose and a spray nozzle just out side my shop to keep my stones and diamond plates clean.
Heres a look

[Tony Shea]

I would like to share method I use the sharp skate from Hap. I really like it with the side sharpening method. It pretty easy to learn and I can use the surface of the stone differently then the push pull method. Might even be a slight advantage.
Another part of my setup that’s different is I use a water hose and a spray nozzle just out side my shop to keep my stones and diamond plates clean.
Heres a look

Wow, must not get that cold where you're at. Can't imagine what it would be like sharpening outside every time my edges were dull. It would also be where my grinding setup would live as well. I hate grinding with a full speed dry grinder inside the shop. The Tormek makes this much more tolerable but is a bit slower when more work is needed. The CBN wheel on the Tormek makes it a touch faster though.

[Tony Shea]

I agree with you 100%. The less time sharpening, the better. Does a 30 degree secondary bevel hold up better, or is a shallower secondary bevel, say, 27 degrees, hold a superior edge? Or am I thinking way too hard about this? I feel like the answer is definitely yes.


30 deg secondary bevel is perfect for a nice keen edge on 98% of my work. The only time I don't use 30 deg is when I need to pare soft woods and then I might get as low as 25 deg but that low of an angle is rarely needed. As Derek noted, if using BU planes it is nice to be able to hone a higher angle when dealing with figured woods prone to tear out. Other than that 30 deg is perfect.

[Andrew Hughes]

Yes that’s correct it doesn’t get below freezing here very often. But my fingers do suffer in the winter. I keep my Tormek inside I find it’s much cleaner compared to the stone station.

[Derek Cohen]

With the exception of BU bench plane blades (50 degrees), low angle block planes and Kiyohisa slicks (all 25 degrees), pretty much all else has been honed at 30 degrees … bench chisels and BD plane blades. The latter is changing. The research that David Weaver completed indicated that, regardless of steel type, the best angle for edge durability is 32 degrees. Since this does not involve much of a change, I am experimenting with it for a while.

Back to honing guides. I was side sharpening by hand about two decades ago, and in 2007 came across a video by Harrelson Stanley, who was then the guru of sharpening Japanese blades. He had just brought out a guide which ran side ways. I was curious and contacted him, and he sent me one to review. I was impressed enough to ask to purchase it, but Harrelson refused to take any money and made it a gift.

Over the years I have not seen much reference to this unique honing guide, which I gather is now in a 4th or 5th version. I continue to side sharpen, amongst other movements, and the SS is a useful guide when a lot of steel is involved (otherwise I just do it freehand).

This is the review I wrote in 2007 …


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7M23gMBRA7I

Edit to add video ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7M23gMBRA7I

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Hughes]

With the exception of BU bench plane blades (50 degrees), low angle block planes and Kiyohisa slicks (all 25 degrees), pretty much all else has been honed at 30 degrees … bench chisels and BD plane blades. The latter is changing. The research that David Weaver completed indicated that, regardless of steel type, the best angle for edge durability is 32 degrees. Since this does not involve much of a change, I am experimenting with it for a while.

Back to honing guides. I was side sharpening by hand about two decades ago, and in 2007 came across a video by Harrelson Stanley, who was then the guru of sharpening Japanese blades. He had just brought out a guide which ran side ways. I was curious and contacted him, and he sent me one to review. I was impressed enough to ask to purchase it, but Harrelson refused to take any money and made it a gift.

Over the years I have not seen much reference to this unique honing guide, which I gather is now in a 4th or 5th version. I continue to side sharpen, amongst other movements, and the SS is a useful guide when a lot of steel is involved (otherwise I just do it freehand).

This is the review I wrote in 2007 …


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7M23gMBRA7I

Edit to add video ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7M23gMBRA7I

Regards from Perth

Derek

Have you tried Haps new version with hss bar. I’ve had one for a few months now it’s expensive but insanely cool how the stone can be worked.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Andrew

I have not seen the latest version. I am curious, but unlikely to purchase one as I have all I need - keeping in mind that I side sharpen freehand 90% of the time. Do you have a link?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Andrew

I have not seen the latest version. I am curious, but unlikely to purchase one as I have all I need - keeping in mind that I side sharpen freehand 90% of the time. Do you have a link?

Regards from Perth

Derek

If you were not on the other side of the planet I would let you borrow mine.:) https://nanohone.com/

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks for the link and offer, Andrew.

From what I can tell, the change to the SS guide is the replacement of the wheels with a non-wearing solid material. I have had the same thought, planning one day (when the wheels wear appreciably) to attach a UHMW strip. I suspect that what is on the current version.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

I have a MarkII. I don't have an LN to compare. I have only once experienced any problems with the MarkII. I had a chisel that had a steep angle between the face and the back. I solved that with a leather shim on the non reference side. In all the talk about slipping I tried pushing on a chisel from the side. I could move it but it took far more pressure than I would ever use when sharpening. That was done with hand tightening, no tools. I do make sure both the tool and the guide are clean. No oil or cutting fluid on them.
Jim