Rail and Stile sizing advice

[Steve Wurster]

I'm going to be making a curio cabinet and would like some advice / guidelines for sizing the rails and stiles. A rough drawing is included here just to provide the overall size and design, with 3 sections of glass per side and per door. The doors are inset in this drawing, but will be overlay style on the actual piece.

In the picture the rails and stiles are all 3" wide. This looks fine for the stiles, however the rails look a little "skimpy" to me. I'm thinking I should widen them to maybe 4 or 5", but I don't know if that should be done on all rails or maybe just the two in the middle. If I change the width of the rails should I change the width of the stiles? Any thoughts / suggestions? Thanks.

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[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Steve, I’m not understanding the question,
I always refer to the Stiles as the vertical component and the rails as the horizontal component.

I size the stiles at 50 to 60mm in width for cabinets, with normally a 20mm thickness, same for the rails unless I want an arch in the top rail.

Try drawing it out full size, that’s how I resolve design issues……Regards, Rod

[roger wiegand]

It depends on the style of course, but I like the bottom-most element to be a little wider than the other "frame" elements, and the elements within the frame of a panel to be significantly smaller than the ones running around the edge. In a modern looking design the elements are frequently all the same size, or close to it-- probably why I like more traditional furniture.

I think the advice to draw it full scale-- and then hang the drawing on the wall where the piece will go-- is excellent, and will provide you with a lot more information about what works for you than a small rendition does. You can make a couple different variants and see which is more pleasing to you.

[Jim Becker]

I was going to say what Roger mentioned...the bottom rail is often taller because of the viewing angle. His advice to hang a full size drawing or a wood or cardboard mockup is sound, too. This is 100% about proportion and viewing angles and working that out in full scale is a valuable experience, IMHO. The cabinetmaker/artist across the street from our old property often used thick corrugated material to mock up design ideas using tape to hold things together. The stuff was stiff enough to stand on its own and truly represent the design for size, etc.

[Greg Quenneville]

I absolutely agree with the advice to make full size renderings or cheap models to try on the proportions. Scale drawings don’t translate well for that.

When I built our period house I was guided by measured drawings from several American colonial and British Georgian homes. I still had to zero in on that last 1/4” using models.

The bottom rail has to lend a sense of foundation to the piece, so it tends to look better being wider. And the top might be eye pleasing being a tiny bit wider than the middle rails. Maybe not though, hence the drawings.

[Michael Schuch]

Rails are always oriented horizontally, if they were vertical the train would fall off the track!

[Rod Sheridan]

Rail are always oriented horizontally, if they were vertical the train would fall off the track!
Best comment of the thread Michael.

Regards, Rod

[Steve Wurster]

Hi Steve, I’m not understanding the question,
I always refer to the Stiles as the vertical component and the rails as the horizontal component.

I size the stiles at 50 to 60mm in width for cabinets, with normally a 20mm thickness, same for the rails unless I want an arch in the top rail.

Try drawing it out full size, that’s how I resolve design issues……Regards, Rod


Rail are always oriented horizontally, if they were vertical the train would fall off the track!

Ah, I can see where my original post would read as if I got the terms rails and stiles backwards. I am talking about the horizontal components; the rails. Namely, I'm talking about the two "in the middle" on each side and on each door. There's one at the top, one at the bottom, and two "in the middle" on each piece. My question was really whether those would look better if they were wider (well, "taller").

I like the suggestion from a lot of you here though to do a full-size mockup / drawing. I'll figure out some way to make that happen. Thanks.

[Michael Schuch]

Rails are always oriented horizontally, if they were vertical the train would fall off the track!


Best comment of the thread Michael.

Regards, Rod

LOL! I am glad you appreciated it. I recall that coming from a cabinet making class I took ~30 years ago at a local community college. :)

[Patrick McCarthy]

had not heard the tracks before, but like it.

I always have to remind myself that "sides" and "stiles" both begin with an "S"

[Scott Clausen]

Rails are always oriented horizontally, if they were vertical the train would fall off the track!

I really could have used this on my first rail and stile project piece.

[Tom Bender]

It needs a proper base or proper feet. What is shown is not so good. Also, you are never going to clean under it so don't let anything get under it, especially cat toys.

To better see what's inside, the center rails and center stiles should be quite narrow, like windows. The outer stiles, a bit wider, and the top and bottom rails much wider. Maybe 1", 2" and 4" for your mockup.

A full size mockup in cardboard and package tape is cheap and easy. Add a bit of wood in the vertical corners to stiffen the spliced cardboard (unless you find some 91" cardboard).

You don't mention shelves. Best way to space these is to know what is going in it and mock that up also. Don't just put shelves at the height of the rails.

[Steve Wurster]

It needs a proper base or proper feet. What is shown is not so good. Also, you are never going to clean under it so don't let anything get under it, especially cat toys.

To better see what's inside, the center rails and center stiles should be quite narrow, like windows. The outer stiles, a bit wider, and the top and bottom rails much wider. Maybe 1", 2" and 4" for your mockup.

A full size mockup in cardboard and package tape is cheap and easy. Add a bit of wood in the vertical corners to stiffen the spliced cardboard (unless you find some 91" cardboard).

You don't mention shelves. Best way to space these is to know what is going in it and mock that up also. Don't just put shelves at the height of the rails.

The feet in the picture were just to show that it won't be sitting flat on the floor. The current plan is to have the feet be splayed / tapered over that short distance. That is, they would be 3-4" square at the top (probably lining up with the stiles) and 2" wide at the bottom. This lines up with a design from other local-store-bought furniture we have in the area. The feet are 4" tall and this unit will be placed on a hardwood floor, so it will be easy to clean under it.

I'm not settled on the design for the solid bottom shelf yet though, and how it will combine with the sides and the feet. The drawing shows the sides just sitting on the bottom and the feet just sitting under that. My current thought is to just rabbet the bottom and place the sides onto those rabbets. But I'm also toying with the idea of an apron-style look for the base even if it's narrow in height.

I like your idea of making the center rails and stiles narrower. I wonder how that would look with wider side rails and stiles though. I did a full size drawing of a side yesterday and taped it to the wall and it *looks* good. But we should have plenty of cardboard sitting around and I should be able to make a mock-up of at least a side and a door, and then find a way to mock up base / feet options under that. When you say 1", 2" and 4", which rails and stiles are you referring to?

Shelving will just be glass with adjustable pin holes (and lighting at the top of the cabinet). I am worried a little about racking and wondered if there should be a solid horizontal frame at some point in the middle for stability. The back will be a mirror and that requires some structure to support, so that should help with the racking of course. This will be a big piece of furniture and the largest I've ever made. UPDATE: A mirror on the back is optional.

[Tom M King]

Try the relationship between the stiles and rails at some multiple of whole numbers, or whole fractions like some number of 1/5's, and 1/6's.

[Tom Bender]

One option to stiffen the case is to make a torsion box on the bottom. It might be 44" x 16" x 4" with the corner stiles firmly attached. You could even fill it with bricks to add stability. To enhance the effect both visually and structural you might taper the corner stiles in a subtle curve from 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 at the bottom to 1 1/4 x 1 1/4 at the top.

It may be worth your time to make a full mockup in cardboard, not just a partial.

A mirror would be nice but a plywood back painted a subtle color would work too, and be easier, and give the case more stability.

[Steve Wurster]

It may be worth your time to make a full mockup in cardboard, not just a partial.

A mirror would be nice but a plywood back painted a subtle color would work too, and be easier, and give the case more stability.

I'm going to mock up what I can with the cardboard we have. I'm sure we'll get more cardboard in soon enough. :)

The mirror idea was scrapped, so it will just be plywood painted in a lighter color.

Can you go back to your previous post where you mentioned 1", 2", and 4" stiles and/or rails; which pieces were you referring to with those dimensions?

[Tom Bender]

1" for center rails and stiles

2" for corner stiles

4" for top and bottom rails

To mock this up you might want to add manila folder material for the glass.

For the back it might look better with a darker background. Try a couple colors on the cardboard. Take pictures so you can compare.

[Steve Wurster]

1" for center rails and stiles

2" for corner stiles

4" for top and bottom rails

To mock this up you might want to add manila folder material for the glass.

For the back it might look better with a darker background. Try a couple colors on the cardboard. Take pictures so you can compare.

Thanks. This piece will be stained darker (assuming I make it; discussions are still ongoing), so a lighter background might be better. That's easily something we can test well ahead of time.

[Frank Pratt]

Rails are always oriented horizontally, if they were vertical the train would fall off the track!

Good one, Dad. :) I'm going to pass that one off to my kids. I'm sure they'll think it's hilarious too.

[Robert Engel]

I made the center stiles narrower in this case. I bit risky, one of the doors is slightly gapped at the top after 5 years. Sorry about sideways pic I can't figure out how to correct.

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[Michael Schuch]

Have you considered the Norm Abram New Yankee design school process? Find a piece of furniture you like, measure it up, then make plans with changes you want for your custom piece. If you can actually see a piece of furniture that you find the proportions of pleasing to your eye it seems like it would be easier to copy the proportions while engineering the details to your liking?

Just a thought!

[Steve Wurster]

Have you considered the Norm Abram New Yankee design school process? Find a piece of furniture you like, measure it up, then make plans with changes you want for your custom piece. If you can actually see a piece of furniture that you find the proportions of pleasing to your eye it seems like it would be easier to copy the proportions while engineering the details to your liking?

Just a thought!

We are basing this design off a piece we like, however we've only seen that piece online and not in any stores. So we only have overall dimensions and guesstimates for other parts of the design. We might have to make a trip to some local stores to see if we can find something similar in design or something else we like.

[Jim Becker]

That's a good idea, because seeing something from many angles that are not always there in photos will be helpful in understanding the design. If not "the" piece, you likely can find similar cabinets to compare and contrast. Of course, that means enduring the onslaught of the very hungry sales teams in the stores...

[Michael Schuch]

Of course, that means enduring the onslaught of the very hungry sales teams in the stores...

True, I have heard than Norm always packed a can of pepper spray with his measuring tape.