Two Fold Medicare Question

[Ronald Blue]

In a few months I will transition to Medicare from private group insurance. Is there a place to get straight info that's not an insurance advertisement about what options I should or can choose? I've seen part D and other letters mentioned but it seems like a lot of double talk. Also is supplemental insurance something needed in addition to the options I may or may not choose? I know some is peoples experience/opinions and that's fine. I'm just trying to determine my best options before the big day arrives.

[Paul F Franklin]

The official medicare site is useful, and I found the AARP materials useful as well.

Your biggest decision will likely be to go with traditional medicare or one of the medicare advantage plans. Pros and cons both ways. If you go traditional medicare, then you will likely want a supplemental plan. I have a "G" supplemental plan, which in most cases has the broadest coverage of all the various supplemental options ("F" was a little better, but is no longer available to new retirees).

Once you decide on the basic direction, the official medicare site is very useful for identifying which plans are available in your area.

[John K Jordan]

In a few months I will transition to Medicare from private group insurance. Is there a place to get straight info that's not an insurance advertisement about what options I should or can choose? I've seen part D and other letters mentioned but it seems like a lot of double talk. Also is supplemental insurance something needed in addition to the options I may or may not choose? I know some is peoples experience/opinions and that's fine. I'm just trying to determine my best options before the big day arrives.

When transitioning from an employer-provided insurance to medicare years ago we got advice from our employers, medical and prescription insurance. We went with AARP for the supplemental. It's been very good - payed for almost everything Medicare doesn't. We also pay for the supplemental prescription insurance but if we don't use it all they send refund checks. Besides the medical and prescription we have dental and eye care insurance. I don't know the details since my wife took care of everything and she is extremely thorough in her research and decisions. Maybe discuss this with your current group insurance provider.

JKJ

[Brian Tymchak]

[QUOTE=John K Jordan;3187440]We also pay for the supplemental prescription insurance but if we don't use it all they send refund checks./QUOTE]

That's good to know! I'm a few years away from Medicare but I've been making an effort this year to start the education curve.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have an advantage plan from Anthem they seem to be pretty good. My SIL had the same Anthem as me and decided to try Aetna and she thinks she will go back to the Anthem as her INR check ups she has a $35 copay and with Anthem it was covered. She listed to one of those people that push plans and that woman was if you need air ambulance it could cost you a lot and Aetna it has a $600 copay. I asked what if you have met you total out of pocket and she couldn't answer that. My other SIL had Anthem and she did use an air ambulance and it was covered.

[Stan Calow]

I found the official site at medicare.gov to be pretty simple to understand. Even with that information, its making a decision that's difficult. Just make sure you understand the difference between supplement plans vs advantage plans.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

We have been on Medicare for a decade. We opted to get a "Plan F" gap supplemental at the time and still have it. Basically, it pays everything that is Medicare approved but Medicare doesn't pay. So, for instance, if an x-ray is needed, Medicare might approve a cost of $74 and only pay $54. The gap insurance plan pays the $20 difference. We do have to have a "Part D" prescription medication plan. The corporation that I worked for provides an advisory company who uses our current prescriptions medication list and annually checks among the prescription medical insurance plans to advise us each year as to which prescription medical insurance would be the most economical. We also have to pay for our own vision and dental expenses.

To me there are two options: Get a gap supplemental which is more expensive monthly but leaves one with less a potential big expense. The Advantage plans are cheaper monthly, may provide additional coverages like dental, vision and prescription medication coverage but give one a larger liability in the event of a major health issue. Some of the Advantage plans may require you to use approved hospitals or physicians.

It really is subjective. As suggested, go to the Medicare website and plan on doing some intense serious reading. Then decide what is right and comfortable for you.


BTW, the large corporation I retired from had similar type coverages for insurance while I was employed. You could have HMO's or regular health insurance. The HMOs were less costly and worked for those living in large cities. There were no HMO hospitals in our area, so we used regular insurances.

[John M Wilson]

Is there a place to get straight info that's not an insurance advertisement about what options I should or can choose?

Just went through this recently when my wife became eligible. Like you, I started early & checked out the official web sites, trying to figure out the best plan for us. This is one of those things where the more people you talk to, the more confused you get. This stuff varies considerably by geographic area, as well as your health status, prescriptions you take, who your doctors are, travel plans, etc. etc.

I started off thinking I knew the best way to go, and then got "information overload" & I was getting frustrated. Among the 48 lbs of brochures the mailman would deliver every day was a hand-typed & hand-signed letter from a lady at a local independent insurance agency. She said she was very familiar with the dozens of plans available in our area, and would help us pick the best one. I contacted her, a bit suspicious, and asked her who she worked for & how she got paid. She said that she was an independent agent, and would get a commission from the plan we picked, but that the commissions were basically the same across the different companies, which means she wasn't pushing a particular plan. My wife & I did a remote meeting thing over the computer (this was during a Covid surge, & we didn't want to go into the office). Our agent asked a ton of very specific questions, then took a few days to match us up with a plan. It was pretty stress-free!

We went with a Cigna Advantage plan -- but don't let that sway you, as your circumstances are absolutely different from ours, and that may or may not match your needs.

By the way, my very healthy wife just had a mild heart attack, we spent over a week in the hospital getting a triple bypass, and so far, we are out-of-pocket a total of $50, for an office visit. The statements keep rolling in, but so far, either Medicare or Cigna have just about paid for everything! (We joke that Cigna may not have wanted her had they known the future, lol). Our plan has worked spectacularly, for us.

I strongly recommend finding an independent insurance agent in your area that is familiar with all of the plans available to you. Talk with them, tell them your unique circumstances, and then listen to their advice.

Many folks have very, very strong opinions on what you should do, often based on their own very real experiences. I had to tune some of these folks out when I figured out that they were responding to a different set of needs from ours.

Good luck on your journey!

[Mike Henderson]

I went with Traditional Medicare. My supplement (F) is through USAA. Most of the "Advantage" plans are HMO's. An HMO is good as long as you're healthy but the horror stories about them are usually when someone gets a serious (expensive) illness.

Also, once you go with an Advantage plan, you might have problems going back to traditional Medicare if you have some expensive illness at the time you want to go back. The problem is not Medicate but the supplemental plan. You may have to go through underwriting for the supplemental plan and it can wind up expensive.

Mike

[Bob Turkovich]

Please be aware that -while Medicare Plan A and B coverage/cost is the same from state-to-state - Plan D, Advantage and Supplemental Plans are controlled by each state and will vary in availability, coverage and cost.

[roger wiegand]

Check with your local Senior Center, Council on Aging, or whatever they may call that function where you live. At least in our town there are volunteer experts who can show you the alternatives, with the benefits and drawbacks of each. You can do something similar yourself on the official medicare site, but having someone who had been through it a hundred times to guide you helps!

We went with traditional Medicare and a Blue Cross supplement. DW racked up a ~$50K hospital bill at the end of last year, our out of pocket will be a couple hundred, if they ever send a bill. I'm really enjoying not being at the mercy of an insurance company trying to extract every last dime of profit by denying coverage on every possible excuse, so no Advantage plans for me.

[Scott Winners]

As two posters have already mentioned, what is 'ideal' will vary somewhat by geography, and partly by the patient's underlying health.

If the main medicare website does not answer your questions, then as previously suggested something like a local "Council on Aging and Disability Resources" should be a decent resource. There are no Medicare Advantage plans currently offered in Alaska, but it does indeed -seem to me- you can elect really good ongoing routine coverage, or have a plan that will cover occasional large expenses.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Wife has United Health thru AARP. I have Humana, paid for as part of my retirement. Wife pays no premiums, other than actual Medicare, which is deducted from her SS each month. I pay actual Medicare, and former employer pays for supliment.

[Jim Becker]

The official Medicare site is always the first go-to place. They also have a lengthy publication that 'splains a lot of the ins and outs about things like supplemental type coverages if you opt for traditional Medicare over a Medicare Advantage plan. Roger also mentioned other resources. In addition to those that are available from organizations, there are also independent advisors that can help with comparisons and AFAIK, they do not receive commissions from any one company.

I will be following you in your footsteps a little more than a year from now when Professor Dr SWMBO retires. Currently, I'm covered under her group plan and only have Part A. So about this time next year, I'll be slicing and dicing the options to make a decision as I'll need to deal with coverage independent of her at that point. Continuing the present group coverage is unaffordable because the employer subsidy disappears.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

Just went through this recently when my wife became eligible. Like you, I started early & checked out the official web sites, trying to figure out the best plan for us. This is one of those things where the more people you talk to, the more confused you get. This stuff varies considerably by geographic area, as well as your health status, prescriptions you take, who your doctors are, travel plans, etc. etc.

I started off thinking I knew the best way to go, and then got "information overload" & I was getting frustrated. Among the 48 lbs of brochures the mailman would deliver every day was a hand-typed & hand-signed letter from a lady at a local independent insurance agency. She said she was very familiar with the dozens of plans available in our area, and would help us pick the best one. I contacted her, a bit suspicious, and asked her who she worked for & how she got paid. She said that she was an independent agent, and would get a commission from the plan we picked, but that the commissions were basically the same across the different companies, which means she wasn't pushing a particular plan. My wife & I did a remote meeting thing over the computer (this was during a Covid surge, & we didn't want to go into the office). Our agent asked a ton of very specific questions, then took a few days to match us up with a plan. It was pretty stress-free!

We went with a Cigna Advantage plan -- but don't let that sway you, as your circumstances are absolutely different from ours, and that may or may not match your needs.

By the way, my very healthy wife just had a mild heart attack, we spent over a week in the hospital getting a triple bypass, and so far, we are out-of-pocket a total of $50, for an office visit. The statements keep rolling in, but so far, either Medicare or Cigna have just about paid for everything! (We joke that Cigna may not have wanted her had they known the future, lol). Our plan has worked spectacularly, for us.

I strongly recommend finding an independent insurance agent in your area that is familiar with all of the plans available to you. Talk with them, tell them your unique circumstances, and then listen to their advice.

Many folks have very, very strong opinions on what you should do, often based on their own very real experiences. I had to tune some of these folks out when I figured out that they were responding to a different set of needs from ours.

Good luck on your journey!



Ditto, ....except my wife had a hip replaced. Maybe we have the same agent :), a wonderful lady.

I've been self employed all my life and for me family medical insurance has always been a pain in the ass, and I really expected medicare to be the same. But I gotta say it's been a huge relief seeing Medicare work the way it does and not having to worry about medical expenses like I used to..... I can't help think how wealthy this country is and does not provide Medicare for everyone...sad really

[Dave Anderson NH]

In our case we used my former employer's insurance agency to help us pick a plan for my wife. They were extremely helpful in explaining all of the ins and outs. It was a BC/BS part B supplement with part D drug plan. Since my wife takes a very expensive drug (retail of $1000 per dose) the risks involved with choosing a Medicare Advantage Plan and then having the plan change were too great. In my case I don't use Medicare. All of my health care is through the Veteran's Administration at no cost. Our local VA has given me nothing but the very best care and in a timely fashion. My only costs are for a modest co-pay on the drugs. If you are a veteran, investigate the VA if they are physically nearby.

[Dave Fritz]

Every US government jurisdiction should have a senior center or resources available. Here it's the Wisconsin: Grant County Commission on Ageing. They have a specialist on board to help with those decisions. They are not SELLING anything! Their services are FREE to residents of the jurisdiction because they're paid for by your taxes. I was on the board of ours for several years and volunteered for many years after helping individuals choose the plan that best fit their needs. The medicare.gov website is excellent. What works well for one person may not work well for you. The Medicare plan finder lists all your options, rates them based on customer satisfaction, deductibles, monthly costs, prescription formularies, drug store options, doctors in system etc. It brought me great joy to see the smiles on people faces when they left and could throw away the bag of junk mail they got selling this or that product. Many seniors can't tell the difference between junk and the necessary letters. We encouraged them to put it all in a bag and have a son or daughter go through it occasionally. For many it brought great relief and piece of mind to their kids who knew what was going on with their parent.

For Ronald who started this thread, here's where I'd start: https://www2.illinois.gov/aging/Pages/default.aspx

[Michael Weber]

I opted for the so called Medigap or supplemental coverage. Cost was greater but what is covered is clear as opposed to Advantage plans. Claim payment on Advantage plans is determined by the insurance company. Too risky for me. Lots of horror stories out there. I investigated for months and while choosing medical coverage was not too confusing, drug coverage was. Because while you know what medication you currently take, what may be a required need next month is generally unknown and that drug may not be in the “formulary” of the chosen company or is in a different “Tier” of coverage. I have personal experience with that as well as in my wife’s coverage. Fortunately drug plans can change yearly and is something that needs to be researched every year as your drug needs change.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I opted for the so called Medigap or supplemental coverage. Cost was greater but what is covered is clear as opposed to Advantage plans. Claim payment on Advantage plans is determined by the insurance company. Befor you get too confident that you're ok....

I went with a supplement plan also & part D for prescriptions.

I was assured by the part D provider my prescriptions coverage would remain as it has been for the last 5 years - my two nebulizer medications had been 100% covered and I paid zero for them each month.
When I got my first refill this year, I had to pay $49 each for both of them and instead of a 90 day supply, all I got was a 30 day supply.
The insurance company assured me both were still covered, but, they were now covered by Medicare past B - and Medicare part B charges more.

Other than the prescription mess, the supplement plan has worked well.

HOWEVER - I still believe there is now valid reason on this Earth that medical coverage for people over 65 has to be such a mess and so convoluted.

[Jerome Stanek]

I opted for the so called Medigap or supplemental coverage. Cost was greater but what is covered is clear as opposed to Advantage plans. Claim payment on Advantage plans is determined by the insurance company. Too risky for me. Lots of horror stories out there. I investigated for months and while choosing medical coverage was not too confusing, drug coverage was. Because while you know what medication you currently take, what may be a required need next month is generally unknown and that drug may not be in the “formulary” of the chosen company or is in a different “Tier” of coverage. I have personal experience with that as well as in my wife’s coverage. Fortunately drug plans can change yearly and is something that needs to be researched every year as your drug needs change.

My advantage plan costs me nothing but you have to check your area for the plan that fits you. Our state sends out books with most of the plans that are available in our state. you can compare different plans

[Alan Lightstone]

Be careful if you choose a Part C plan (Medicare Advantage) and are on a biologic (which can be staggeringly expensive).

I'm profoundly impressed by anyone who can explain the various stages of Medicare as you pay expenses during the year. First Stage 1 - The Annual Deductible. Then Stage 2 - Initial Coverage. Followed by Stage 3 - Coverage Gap. And then finally Stage 4 - Catastrophic Coverage. Much less the 5 tiers of medications. And this is just for Part D coverage. And of course, there is the out-of-pocket cost.

Whoever thought this system up.....

[Mike Henderson]

Be careful if you choose a Part C plan (Medicare Advantage) and are on a biologic (which can be staggeringly expensive).

I'm profoundly impressed by anyone who can explain the various stages of Medicare as you pay expenses during the year. First Stage 1 - The Annual Deductible. Then Stage 2 - Initial Coverage. Followed by Stage 3 - Coverage Gap. And then finally Stage 4 - Catastrophic Coverage. Much less the 5 tiers of medications. And this is just for Part D coverage. And of course, there is the out-of-pocket cost.

Whoever thought this system up.....

I don't know who thought the Part D system up, but it's actually pretty easy to understand. Prior to my first wife's death, she was on some very expensive medications. The Catastrophic Coverage saved us from financial ruin. The coverage gap - at that time - was not too big, if I remember correctly. We blew through it pretty quickly. I think the coverage gap is even smaller now.

If you are in a situation where you need the Catastrophic Coverage, I guarantee you'll have a very good understanding of the system.

Mike

[Zachary Hoyt]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought that Two Fold Medicare was a new and presumably even more soul-crushingly complex version of the program. I'm glad that it's not as bad as I momentarily feared.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I just signed up a couple of months back.

Had to have a $20K out patient eye surgery about 3 weeks after starting Medicare.

I have a plan D for prescriptions, through Aetna and a plan G through AARP United Healthcare.

Paid the $233 deductible, for the operation, on the plan G supplement and now I will not have any more out pocket expenses during the year for doctors visits. I just pay the Plan G monthly premium($130).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ron,

As you can see from the variety of responses to this thread, there are a variety of opinions. It's important that you study the information and determine what's right for you and yours!

[Kev Williams]

I don't even try to figure out the mumbojumbo with advantage plans. But I know this: Wife had a subacrachnoid brain hemorrhage, spent an entire day in the hospital getting poked and prodded and had more vials of stuff pumped in her arms than I ever seen. All that and 3 cat scans later, an ambulance came and took her to another hospital, where she spent 11 days in ICU, which included a few more cat scans, 2 angiograms, and many many many meds...on day 12 they moved her to a private room where she spent 2 days for observation and recuperating. We hadn't spent a dime yet. A few days later we got the total bill, just north of $115k. I was planning on 2nd mortgaging this place to cover our end, which I assumed would be around 15-20% of that. In the end I wrote ONE check that covered everything, the ER, the ambulance, the entire hospital stay, doctors, meds, tests, the whole 9 yards... total out of pocket was just over $1800... A couple of years later she got squashed between our motorhome and the storage lot's chain link fence as I was pulling it out of the lot. That ER visit was over $14k, I wrote a co-payment check for $75 to cover it...

I have no clue how or why our plan works, but we have NO complaints. Doctors and hospitals, that's another story... ;)

[Bill Dufour]

Talk to your doctor and get a list of which medicare plans they accept as full payment. You can change plans every year during open enrollment or if you move.
Bill D.

[Ronald Blue]

Thank you to everyone who has responded at this point and may yet respond. I will make notes of all the good advice and try to determine what's best for me then. This is exactly what I was seeking though. I knew this was the right place to ask as so many people have knowledge of this process.

[Bill George]

To simplify, Parts A & B only cover 80%. you can purchase Medigap Coverage and different plans cover more or less I have Plan F which covers everything. I think Plan G is very close to the same. Part D covers prescription drugs. The HMO and other Medicare plans be very careful a lot just cover in your home area, and if you travel perhaps not.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Another way to look at the Advantage vs supplement decision is - - they push the Advantage plans really, really, really hard.
Seems like every time a commercial comes on, I hear Jimmy "JJ" Walker saying , "Dyno-Mite" or Joe Namath saying something about "free".

One thing I learned on my 70 years on the planet is - nobody pushes anything this hard if it benefits someone else.

[Bill Dufour]

Best advice I ever got was to go talk to an insurance broker. They work for you, for free. They know all the ins and outs. My wife had to switch brokers since her old one did not do medicare. He hooked her up with a different one.
They are like travel agents used to be. They fill out all the forms for you. Just make an appointment and bring in a list of all medications and your doctors.
Bill D

[Larry Frank]

Best advice given is to find an advisor. I have standard Medicare A and B with a supplement. It allows me to easily see the specialist I need.

For medication, the online program for Medicare Part D allows you to enter your prescriptions and search the options like costs and what pharmacy you can go to.

[Alan Lightstone]

Best advice given is to find an advisor. I have standard Medicare A and B with a supplement. It allows me to easily see the specialist I need.

For medication, the online program for Medicare Part D allows you to enter your prescriptions and search the options like costs and what pharmacy you can go to.

And for insulin and biologics, expect to be stunned by the cost.

[Curt Harms]

And for insulin and biologics, expect to be stunned by the cost.

There is something in the works, legislative or regulatory to cap insulin costs at $35/month. I found a neighborhood pharmacy in Trenton NJ. that has excellent prices. I was paying $23 per month with insurance for a certain medication. I lost that insurance for a while but found out about this place. I'm now paying $12/month for the same med, no insurance. Says something to me about markups on meds, even generics.

[Mike Henderson]

Best advice I ever got was to go talk to an insurance broker. They work for you, for free. They know all the ins and outs. My wife had to switch brokers since her old one did not do medicare. He hooked her up with a different one.
They are like travel agents used to be. They fill out all the forms for you. Just make an appointment and bring in a list of all medications and your doctors.
Bill D

If they don't charge you for their services, they must be getting paid another way. I highly doubt if traditional Medicare pays a broker, so that would lead me to suspect that the broker is going to push the Advantage plans at the expense of traditional Medicare.

Mike

[Larry Frank]

My Medicare advisor told me that they get a fee for helping with Medicare. He did not push the advantage plans at all.

Most important is to find out what doctors accept whatever plan you get.

[Mike Henderson]

My Medicare advisor told me that they get a fee for helping with Medicare. He did not push the advantage plans at all.

Most important is to find out what doctors accept whatever plan you get.

Here's a link to the Medicare agent/broker compensation (https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Health-Plans/ManagedCareMarketing/AgentBroker). The way I read it, it's only compensation paid by companies who offer Advantage plans (and maybe part D plans). I can find no information about Medicare paying a broker to recommend traditional Medicare - and I can't see any reason why Medicare would pay such compensation.

It costs Medicare a bit less for someone to be enrolled in an Advantage Plan than for traditional Medicare.

So follow the money: Medicare saves money if you join an Advantage Plan, and the Advantage Plan makes a profit with you in the plan. And a broker makes a commission for selling an Advantage Plan. There's a lot of reasons for them to push you towards an Advantage Plan.

Here are some of the "problems" of an Advantage Plan (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/010816/pitfalls-medicare-advantage-plans.asp).

Mike

[My experience is that Advantage Plans work well if you're healthy. But when you become ill, especially with an expensive problem, such as cancer, you have problems getting to see a specialists, you often are not permitted to receive the most modern treatments, and you have to pay quite a bit for the treatments you receive. So, in choosing an Advantage Plan, you're betting that you will remain healthy until you suddenly drop dead.]

[Alan Lightstone]

My Medicare advisor told me that they get a fee for helping with Medicare. He did not push the advantage plans at all.

Most important is to find out what doctors accept whatever plan you get.

Most physicians take Medicare. It's pretty well mandatory for hospital based physicians (anesthesia, ER, pathology, radiology). As far as Medicare Advantage plans, not necessarily true, as over the past couple of years insurance companies have been wholesale cancelling contracts with physician groups to leverage them into signing contracts with substantial fee cuts. Physician fees are fixed with Medicare (depending on your particular area), but typically the physicans then get dropped from the Medicare Advantage plans too. Aren't insurance companies wonderful. Oh, and after they cut the physician fees, they don't decrease premiums. Yup, just make larger profits.

So, always check if you are in network before seeing a physician, going to a hospital, getting an x-ray, lab tests (especially lab tests), etc...

[Dave Fritz]

Once again, FREE advice is available at your local Senior Citizen Government Office. They are not SELLING anything. Most likely they will log into this and look at all your options available and let you choose. https://www.medicare.gov/ Plans total price per year, ratings by consumers and other valuable information available FREE for you to select what works best for you. I review mine every year and have changed several times, mostly based on price. Contrary to many politicians Medicare works. I've had many more problems with insurance companies and medical providers. Don't get me started on prescription drugs. Talk about the power of a big lobby.

[John M Wilson]

My experience is that Advantage Plans work well if you're healthy. But when you become ill, especially with an expensive problem, such as cancer, you have problems getting to see a specialists, you often are not permitted to receive the most modern treatments, and you have to pay quite a bit for the treatments you receive. So, in choosing an Advantage Plan, you're betting that you will remain healthy until you suddenly drop dead.

The experience my wife had with her open heart surgery on an Advantage plan couldn't have been better. No problems with specialists, modern treatments, or any other of the things we were supposed to be scared of. So far, we are out of pocket $850 on the nearly $30,000 of bills that have arrived (many more are still in process).

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, and I agree that everyone should make an informed choice that works for them.

[Ronald Blue]

Every US government jurisdiction should have a senior center or resources available. Here it's the Wisconsin: Grant County Commission on Ageing. They have a specialist on board to help with those decisions. They are not SELLING anything! Their services are FREE to residents of the jurisdiction because they're paid for by your taxes. I was on the board of ours for several years and volunteered for many years after helping individuals choose the plan that best fit their needs. The medicare.gov website is excellent. What works well for one person may not work well for you. The Medicare plan finder lists all your options, rates them based on customer satisfaction, deductibles, monthly costs, prescription formularies, drug store options, doctors in system etc. It brought me great joy to see the smiles on people faces when they left and could throw away the bag of junk mail they got selling this or that product. Many seniors can't tell the difference between junk and the necessary letters. We encouraged them to put it all in a bag and have a son or daughter go through it occasionally. For many it brought great relief and piece of mind to their kids who knew what was going on with their parent.

For Ronald who started this thread, here's where I'd start: https://www2.illinois.gov/aging/Pages/default.aspx

Thanks for this link. It looks like a lot of good info there. I had not encountered it in my searches. Thanks again.

[Ronald Blue]

Ron,

As you can see from the variety of responses to this thread, there are a variety of opinions. It's important that you study the information and determine what's right for you and yours!

I expected that Ken. Varying experiences and opinions. But still something to learn from them.