Are there any CPA’s on here?

[Bryan Lisowski]

I have a question for any Certified Public Accountants (or IRS employees) that may be on the forum. I have researched (googled) every variation I could think of with no luck. Does anyone know of the formula the IRS uses to determine the amount of taxes you owe when they file a SFR (substitute for return)?

Thank you in advance for any help.

[Bill Dufour]

No expert. As I read it the IRS fills out the return for you using what W2, 1040 it can find in its records from your employer, banks, broker etc.
I would assume they then look it up in tax tables. probably your income is in several different tax brackets. 10-24% for most
Bill D.

My state taxes have to have the completed federal forms to copy numbers from.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets

The Ukraine tax authority has determined that any captured russian tanks etc do not have to be declared for tax purposes.
I doubt US soldiers deployed during war time get leave to go fill out tax forms during a battle. Maybe the IRS does it for them on request?

[Bryan Lisowski]

Yes, they take your W2 or 1099 info that was reported to them, but how they determine what you owe is the formula I’m looking for. The problem is I don’t have my 1099 info and neither does the IRS since this is 10 years old. I do have what they say I owe after the SFR, so I’m trying to do the math backwards so I can get to what my 1099 was.

[Kev Williams]

Contact the IRS by phone. I've done it several times, they've always been nice, helpful and pleasant, never a bad experience...

This is their 'telephone assistance' web page, browse thru and you may be able to narrow down the best number to call.. https://www.irs.gov/help/telephone-assistance

[Bryan Lisowski]

Contact the IRS by phone. I've done it several times, they've always been nice, helpful and pleasant, never a bad experience...

This is their 'telephone assistance' web page, browse thru and you may be able to narrow down the best number to call.. https://www.irs.gov/help/telephone-assistance


I have been in contact with them, asked this question 3 times over last 3 weeks, with no response. Which is how I found out they no longer have 1099 info.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I have been in contact with them, asked this question 3 times over last 3 weeks, with no response. Which is how I found out they no longer have 1099 info.


So what are they basing your income from ten years ago on?

[Bryan Lisowski]

So what are they basing your income from ten years ago on?


They had the 1099 info when they did the SFR years ago, but supposedly they only keep that info for 9 years. I find this hard to believe, especially since they send me a yearly note, but then again anything is possible with our government. So the only way I can file a “amended return” is to figure out what my 1099 was is by finding a way to work backwards if I can find out how they calculated in the first place.

My old CPA retired and I have filed myself since 2017.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Yes, they take your W2 or 1099 info that was reported to them, but how they determine what you owe is the formula I’m looking for. The problem is I don’t have my 1099 info and neither does the IRS since this is 10 years old. I do have what they say I owe after the SFR, so I’m trying to do the math backwards so I can get to what my 1099 was.


Request a copy of your 1099. If they can't produce it, it would be hard to convince a judge to side with them. Was this your total income, or just a portion of it? I would talk to a tax attorney, instead of a CPA

[Bill Dufour]

I thought seven years was the statute of limitations on taxes? Of course if they started the proceedings before then I guess it can move forward.
Bill D.

[Lisa Starr]

Why not request a copy of the 1099 from the issuer?

[Bryan Lisowski]

Bill, they have 10 years to collect, but in reality it is 15 years, they file SFR and then other collection methods, which they can do for 5 years. So in this case if you didn’t file in 2010, they will try to collect until 2015, then the 10 years start and if you still didn’t pay or file, in 2025 the case is closed and no funds can be collected.

Lisa, I have tried for a month to get that info, but they haven’t responded to any of my calls or emails.

To wrap this up, I spoke with the IRS for 2 hours going over options, they don’t keep records past 10 years. They couldn’t say how the number was calculated, this includes the 2 supervisors on the call. The risk of me getting the wrong figure would result in several additional penalties, amounts owed and possibly resetting the 10 year clock. So I’m not doing anything at this point.

A moderator can lock this thread if they want.