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James Jayko
03-28-2022, 7:26 AM
Hi All,

I'm making the tool chest Mike Pekovich made in Fine Woodworking. The chest is all butternut.

In the chest, he uses wedged through mortise and tenons to attach the well bottom to the sides. My questions relates to the wedges.

First, would you use the same species of wood for the wedges? Butternut is SUPER soft, so I am wondering if I'd have better luck with something harder like maple.

Second, he just ran a saw kerf with his dovetail saw for the wedges. Long story, but this is my third attempt at this chest. When I tried this last year, that kerf seemed REALLY thin; would you think that maybe a thin kerf table saw blade would be better, or am I thinking too hard about this? Is it just about properly sizing and preparing the wedges?
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Thanks!

William Fretwell
03-28-2022, 8:59 AM
Hi James, Butternut is a protected species in Ontario, can’t buy it. I was given one small board, enough for a jewelry box perhaps! Seems too soft for a tool box really, lovely wood though.

I do like wedged tenons as a joint. You should use a harder wood as you strike it to drive it home. You can compress the tenon a little but want the wedge to be solid. I prefer double wedged where possible, they look more refined and do a better job of spreading the tenon evenly.

The cut should be wider than thin, needs to match the wedge. You can have a small drill hole at the base of the cut, it won’t be seen. The wedge size needs to give it strength and artistic presence, not just utility. The wedges in the picture are trying to fight a tenon, another reason they must be a harder wood. I prefer darker woods for the wedges. Maple would really stand out, might look a little gauche. The subtle detail of a darker wood in a double wedge becomes a discovered mark of craftsmanship.

Apart from that the lovely chest seems too small.

James Jayko
03-28-2022, 9:31 AM
Well it is quite soft, but on the plus side, quite light. So we shall see...it looks lovely so far, hope it holds up to use.

Regarding its size, I also have a Dutch tool chest that I like, but its just far too large. Turns out, there is a lot of stuff I put in there that I don't drag to the workshop given that I'm currently apartment living. I do like the Dutch chest as a more permeant solution in a home shop, if/when that happens again!

Robert Engel
03-28-2022, 9:53 AM
Butternut probably not the best choice for durability, but that's me. 1/2 oak would work I think.

Weight is definitely an issue. I built a similar chest of oak that weighs close to 70 pounds - definitely not "portable".

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James Jayko
03-28-2022, 11:49 AM
That chest is quite a beauty!

mike stenson
03-28-2022, 12:09 PM
Weight is a significant issue with any tool chest. It's why they've been traditionally made in lighter weight materials. Kerfing with a dovetail saw, IME, is fine. You really don't need a huge amount of wedging action for it to significantly tighten up the joint.

Mike Allen1010
03-29-2022, 9:00 PM
Very nice work James – your tool chests looks great!

IMHO, if any go to the trouble to make through, wedged tennons, definitely makes sense to use a contrasting color wood for the wedge. To my eye, it better highlights the hard work you've already done. Personally, my experience is for small-scale work like your tool chest, a thin kerf back saw isn't ideal. The kerf is so small, that the wedge doesn't really show up. Personally I use a .035" wide panel saw – the resulting wider wedges tend to show up a bit better.

Luke Dupont
03-29-2022, 11:10 PM
I think the best way to answer your questions is to make a few test joints yourself. My intuition is that a medium hard wood for the wedges would be ideal. Also my intuition is that the thickness of the kerf which is appropriate depends on the angle and thickness of the wedges you make. Maybe try hard and soft maple and poplar for the wedges, and try different kerf thicknesses or wedge sizes.

In any case, the best way to know is to actually try it out on some scrap wood before you risk it on the actual piece.

Soft, light woods are great for portability. I made a tool tote out of 3/4 SYP that was too heavy to tote, and learned that lesson early on...

Maybe something like poplar which is strong and light (albeit easy to dent) is ideal. I don't know how butternut compares to tulip poplar.

James Jayko
03-31-2022, 11:54 AM
Butternet seems to be about the same hardness as pine. Light, soft, pretty. I will likely have to be cautious with it, but that's ok. This ain't a production shop.

Here is the current status:
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Keith Outten
04-01-2022, 12:33 PM
I have not used the wood yet but I got these butternut boards from one of our sponsors here.

James Jayko
08-12-2022, 9:33 AM
So I've finished the tool chest and I love it. But one issue/question/suggestion request.

I didn't use the drawer latches (honestly, I forgot to cut the mortises before I glued up the case). The drawers tend to open up a little bit when the chest is in transit in my truck...any good suggestions for an at least slightly elegant solution? I could use something as simple as turn buttons, but that seems pretty...hacky. Any ideas?

Joe A Faulkner
08-14-2022, 3:10 PM
What is the barrier to going with mini full mortise lock sets? Is it the latch mortise? Seems like the right result. Not sure about the process. Maybe use hand router router knives/chisels to chop the latch mortise in the cabinet.

Jack Dover
08-15-2022, 11:05 AM
Second, he just ran a saw kerf with his dovetail saw for the wedges. Long story, but this is my third attempt at this chest. When I tried this last year, that kerf seemed REALLY thin; would you think that maybe a thin kerf table saw blade would be better, or am I thinking too hard about this? Is it just about properly sizing and preparing the wedges?

Thanks!

It's about both. Wedging a tenon isn't a well described topic in literature and often produces unexpected results. But answers first.

I think you will spend more time setting a table saw than actually kerfing, besides, it won't be a good kerf for wedging. If your saw has a thin plate then it's better to saw out a thin wedge out of a tenon, not just sawing a single kerf. Try the smallest wedge you can do, or maybe get a tenon saw, they have thicker plates. Be careful with the depth, it's very easy to split a part when a wedge goes too deep - a hairline crack will be quite visible. On tenons longer than say 3/4" I would drill a stop hole. There's also some rules on how to position the kerf, but for 1/2" thickness it doesn't matter.

Wedges and their kerfs should be prepared, you're right about that. Timber selection is also important. You can drive a hard wedge into soft or hard wood, but never try a soft wedge into a hard wood. It's better to pare a wedge if it was spit or sawn off, especially when spit off, because textured surface will affect the glue line: a wedge's coarse grain (i.e. oar into walnut) will compress soft fibers and the line will be kinda jagged, doesn't look nice. A hard, tight grained wood works best, saving some offcuts specifically for wedging is a good idea. I usually saw wedge stock as flat 1/16" - 1/8" pieces and then pare them with a chisel in a bench hook making them kinda like pencil shaped - a little bit of taper and sharpen the very point. It's because a thin wedge is easily broken and often it's somewhere in the middle, repairing this might require cancelling the whole glue up, a very problematic situation.

As for positioning a wedge: in this particular case I would position a single wedge right in the center of a tenon. If a tenon is wide and two wedges are designed it's better to position them at approximately 1/3 of the width. Positioning wedges at 1/4 of the width produces a weird visual effect I personally don't like, so if you don't like equal spacing then make it very obviously non-equal, so may be at 1/5-1/6 of the width and some skinny wedges. Diagonal wedges can look nice in some situations, but they require a square tenon and a thin wedge, since they put pressure across the grain too and can split a mortised piece. Oh by the way: wedges usually oriented such that pressure is along the grain, never across the grain.

Please don't forget to shave mortises so they're wider at the face size or a wedge can seize. Doesn't have to be much, shaving off a marked line is enough, but I believe this is covered in the class you're following.

Mike Manning
08-15-2022, 9:52 PM
I'd wager I'm not the only person who wants to see the completed tool chest, James! Pics please. That butternut is beautiful!

Mike Brady
08-16-2022, 9:39 AM
Is Butternut softer than pine?

Andrew Pitonyak
08-24-2022, 1:23 PM
Is Butternut softer than pine?

I believe that Butternut Lumber has a Janka hardness of 490

There are many types of "pine" as I understand it. Eastern white pine is 380, white pine is 420, shortleaf and loblolly southern yellow pine 690, longleaf southern yellow pine is 870, red pine is 1630, carribean heart pine is 1280, and true pine is 1570.