Bosch or Dewalt SCMS?

[Jim Schutz]

Amazon has a great tool sale going on right now, and I'm thinking about adding a SCMS to my shop. I'm looking at the Bosch 5412 (currently about $460) and the Dewalt 718 (about $540). Both seem like a great deal, but I'm trying to decide between the two. The only real advantage I see to the Dewalt is the 16" cut capacity. I'm not sure I'd use it much so it doesn't seem worth the extra money, but it'd be nice. Anyway, any opinions out there between these two saws?

[tod evans]

jim, a few years back when the rebranded dewalt stuff came out my friend who owns the local tool store/service center advised me to stear clear of yellow tools and i listen when he speaks.....02 tod

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Jim, There have been many times that I would have used a 16" cut capacity. That said, another 4" sticking out makes it that much harder to make smaller cuts. I have been thinking about picking up the dewalt simply for the larger capacity and keeping my other 12" or selling it and getting a 12" non-slider.

[Mark Rios]

I had the DW708 and loved it. It had a few quirks but it was more my set up than the saw. I have the Makita 1214 now and wish I could go back. I'd buy the new Dewalt.

[Ted Shrader]

Jim –

Have a Dewalt 718 (still in the box from Christmas – sort a stealth gloat). My wife saw it was needed after observing me make some built in bookcases for our church. The corner units had 45° cuts on each end of 18” deep shelves. (They look sort of like <--> ). I was making a partial 45° cut, then flipping the saw (Dewalt 705) around and the board over to finish each one.

She saw the solution as a new saw – the REAL gloat! Looking forward to the additional cut off capacity.

Ted

[Bill Simmeth]

Thanks for the heads-up on the sale. Quite a deal!

Sorry, I'll only compound your quandry by suggesting adding the Makita LS1214 to the mix. I've been looking at a new slider and have narrowed it to the Bosch and the Makita. My venerable DW704 non-slider has performed admirably, but the new machines from DeWalt have, IMHO, horrible fit and finish. The castings are really rough; makes me wonder what other details are overlooked. I also don't need the extra cross-cut capacity as I'm rehabbing an old DeWalt GA to be dedicated to cross-cut work.

Between the Bosch and Makita, I note the following:

Bosch 5412L:
+ up-front bevel controls
+ adjustable grip position (I prefer a horizontal grip to Makita's fixed vertical)
+ 47-47 bevel (vs 45-45 for Makita)
+ 60-52 miter (vs 52-47 for Makita)
? Laser can't be turned off, I think it would drive me nuts on multiple cuts

Makita LS1214:
+ much larger table
+ nicer overall finish
+ gear-driven vs Bosch's belt drive

The difference in the miter range is significant, making the Bosch more attractive on paper. However, the thing that might send me to the Makita is it seems much more stable than the Bosch. I've played with both in local stores. The Makita's sliders are under the table and beefier. The Bosch's are up high. I was able to noticeably deflect the saw head on the Bosch. I didn't notice any deflection on the Makita.

Some food for thought. Good luck on the decision.

[Bill Simmeth]

I have the Makita 1214 now and wish I could go back. I'd buy the new Dewalt.Hi Mark,
I was writing my tome above while you posted. What is it about the LS1214 that you don't like? Thanks.

[Steve Clardy]

Well. I have two 708 sliders, and two 705 non sliders.
They are all great saws. Accurate right out of the box.
Dewalts saws are the only things I will purchase in their line of tools.

[Mark Rios]

Hi Mark,
I was writing my tome above while you posted. What is it about the LS1214 that you don't like? Thanks.

Well, most of it is probably my amateur WWer status but I have used miter saws all my life on the jobsite but just for not the fine kind of work that we do in WWing. That being said, there are a couple of things definately wrong with my fence.

A couple of weekends ago I needed to make some "REAL" miter saw cuts (as opposed to exterior trim or deck work or stuff like that) for some finish work I was doing. I was/am having trouble with the fence creeping out of alignment a couple of hours after setting it. This happened three times in one day. I called Makita and also two factory service centers here in N. CA and after not being able to figure out what was wrong another problem came to light. The flip fence on the right and the removable upper fence on the left are not on the same plane as the main fence. They are both set back approx. 1/32" to 1/16". I originally thought that this was just an annoying thing and that they were all that way. While talking to the service center guys I brought this up and they said that, no, they should be on the same plane. Both factory service centers are about 90 minutes away and I have to take them in to have anything fixed and then return to pick up the saw.

Also, my slide action isn't very smooth and kinda stiff. The slide action has been this way since took it out of the box in May or June of last year. This may, in fact, be due to me not knowing how to set it up properly but it's a little disappointing.

My DW708 on the other hand set up very nicely and after finding out some adjustments that I didn't know were there:o, I could make cuts that I could depend on. I'm really not that confident about the cuts on this Makita.

[Bill Simmeth]

Interesting. Those issues don't seem to have much to do with your experience level! Thanks for the feedback.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Jim, There have been many times that I would have used a 16" cut capacity. That said, another 4" sticking out makes it that much harder to make smaller cuts. I have been thinking about picking up the dewalt simply for the larger capacity and keeping my other 12" or selling it and getting a 12" non-slider.

You 'da man Jeff! Buy a new one AND keep the old one!

[Aaron Beaver]

I have the DeWalt 718 and love it. Dont have any complaints thus far about it.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

You 'da man Jeff! Buy a new one AND keep the old one!

Like I said thinking of it!! :) Some of the cuts for the sheds have been tough due to the 12" crosscut :)

[Norman Hitt]

jim, a few years back when the rebranded dewalt stuff came out my friend who owns the local tool store/service center advised me to stear clear of yellow tools and i listen when he speaks.....02 tod

I'd sure be curious to know why he made that statement, as I have a DW Biscuit jointer, a DW 14.4 V XRP drill, a DW625 Router and a DW705 Mitre saw, that have all performed Flawlessly for me, and I consider them all among the best tool purchases I have made over the years.

I'd really Love to have a new DW718, but the budget just won't handle it yet.

[Steve Cox]

I'm on the other side. I looked at Bosch and DeWalt a couple of years ago and wound up with the Bosch. This was about two years ago so models may have changed. The DeWalt was cheaper up front but there were a couple of caveats. The Bosch came with table extensions and a hold down clamp. Those were extra accessories on the Dewalt and their price drove it above that of the Bosch. The Bosch had a wider range of miter angles than the Dewalt which was critical for me as I do some boat work with lots of funny angles. I found the handle on the Bosch to be way above the DeWalt in terms of comfort and the ability to use it both right and left handed. I really appreciate the up front controls of the Bosch saws. 16" inches of crosscut would be nice but I find my saw too large for some small pieces and I don't think I'd like to lug around a bigger saw. I just looked at your post again and I see you want it for the shop. In that case I personally would buy the Bosch 10". It has almost the same capacity as the 12" and in the shop you have other tools that could handle bigger pieces. I bought mine as a jobsite saw and don't even use it in the shop. I have a slider on the tablesaw for that function.

[tod evans]

I'd sure be curious to know why he made that statement, as I have a DW Biscuit jointer, a DW 14.4 V XRP drill, a DW625 Router and a DW705 Mitre saw, that have all performed Flawlessly for me, and I consider them all among the best tool purchases I have made over the years.

I'd really Love to have a new DW718, but the budget just won't handle it yet.

norman, i honestly couldn`t tell you. but he did stop servicing the old black-n-decker industrial line when they decided to introduce the yellow line......mind you this fellow only deals in industrial/construction equipment and has chosen to avoid anything that even smells like a "homeowner" tool because he doesn`t want the associated headaches. he also stopped carrying delta about the same time. we`ve been doing business and have been friends for close to 30yrs so i no longer ask why i just listen...tod

[Norman Hitt]

norman, i honestly couldn`t tell you. but he did stop servicing the old black-n-decker industrial line when they decided to introduce the yellow line......mind you this fellow only deals in industrial/construction equipment and has chosen to avoid anything that even smells like a "homeowner" tool because he doesn`t want the associated headaches. he also stopped carrying delta about the same time. we`ve been doing business and have been friends for close to 30yrs so i no longer ask why i just listen...tod

Hey Tod, I can certainly understand why he quit servicing the Black & Decker stuff, as I have sure been Burned with that stuff in the past and won't even consider any of it anymore. It does amaze me that all the DW stuff I have and have been around is as Good, as the BD stuff is bad, (you wouldn't think the same people own both company's tool lines). I did hear that the early DW Orbital sanders weren't up to par, but haven't heard anything bad on them lately, maybe these were from the time period he was concerned about. I guess I'll find out soon, as I gave my buddy one of the new models for x-mas this year. The DW mitre Saws and Sliders are pretty much the standard in the construction industry around here and everyone seems to really like them, as they seem to hold up well and take a lot of abuse and still remain strong and accurate.

[Jim Schutz]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm still undecided, but leaning toward the Bosch.

Steve, you make a good point about using other tools for cross cutting in the shop, but my table saw is a BT3100. I like the saw, but the sliding table isn't really the most accurate feature of the saw. I find I get a little play in the sliding table and prefer to use the miter saw for crosscuts when possible. So, this has led to me wanting the SCMS. I suppose the better option would be to upgrade the table saw, but that really isn't in the budget.

Any further suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Jim

[Dick Parr]

Jim if you get the chance, take a good look at the new Hitachi 12" SCMS with laser. That is one sweet sliding machine that has digital readout for the bevels.:D

[Ed Frie]

Just a bit ago, there was a tool review article in, I think, American Woodworker or Workbench, on sliding miter saws. They liked Bosch and Makita best. I can find the exact issue details if you want.

Because of that article, I went to buy a Bosch at my local tool dealer. They, based on contractor and professional feedback to them, talked me out of the Bosch and into the Makita. They carried both. The professionals reported more accuracy of cut with the Makita because of the design of the sliding mechanism. I have been very happy since. They also talked me out of the 12" and into the 10" even though they stood to make more money. They said the 12" didn't provide enough extra cutting capacity to make it financially worthwhile.

[Byron Trantham]

Jim, I have had the DW708 for several years and really like it. It's the second chop saw that I have owned and by far the best. I would buy another one.

[tod evans]

here`s a bit of knowledge for what it`s worth? the makita is the only slider made in the usa right now.....although profits from sales leave the country it is built here.......02 tod

[Jim Schutz]

They also talked me out of the 12" and into the 10" even though they stood to make more money. They said the 12" didn't provide enough extra cutting capacity to make it financially worthwhile.

Thanks Ed,

I looked up a couple of 10" saws and they are significantly less expensive. That might make more sense for me.

Also, is the laser worthwhile? Looking at the Bosch 4412, the price difference is only about $20, so I figured, what the heck, I might as well have it. But, if I went with the Bosch 4410, the price difference for the laser option is nearly $80. (using amazon's prices).

Thanks,
Jim

[Allen Grimes]

here`s a bit of knowledge for what it`s worth? the makita is the only slider made in the usa right now.....although profits from sales leave the country it is built here.......02 todI thought Bosh was making there SCMS in the US too.

Right now Im on the fence between Bosch and Makita and I have been for a long time. The digital read out for the Hitachi doesnt impress me at all and that to me is the only reason to look at it over B or M. Anyway, I like all the features of the Bosch machine but everybody I know who has the Makita loves it too and I did hear a couple of complaints about the accuracy of the Bosch.

Still if I had to make the decision right now, I would probably choose Bosch, because I've had nothing but good experiences with their tools. That said, in my opinion, Makita is the only other option (unless DeWalt has a new SCMS that I dont know about).

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Thanks Ed,

I looked up a couple of 10" saws and they are significantly less expensive. That might make more sense for me.

Also, is the laser worthwhile? Looking at the Bosch 4412, the price difference is only about $20, so I figured, what the heck, I might as well have it. But, if I went with the Bosch 4410, the price difference for the laser option is nearly $80. (using amazon's prices).

Thanks,
Jim

The advantage of 12" saws is their cutting depth not cross cutting capacity. You can cut a larger crown molding with it set up against the fence (The easier way to cut it) with a 12". Also, you can cut a 4x4 with a 12" you can't with a 10.

As far as the laser goes, now that I have one, I wouldn't be w/o it, unless I set up my saw in a table with a built in rule. If you had a built in rule, there is no need for the laser :)

[Bill Simmeth]

I thought Bosh was making there SCMS in the US too.The 5412 is definitely made in taiwan, I checked. Can't say for sure about their other models.


Still if I had to make the decision right now, I would probably choose Bosch, because I've had nothing but good experiences with their tools.I certainly respect this, but I think it's always been true to a degree and seems to be more so these days -- if you want the best tools (each in their own class), you can't buy from a single vendor. The best jigsaw isn't made by the folks with the best miter saw and so on. Just a thought.

[Allen Grimes]

The 5412 is definitely made in taiwan, I checked. Can't say for sure about their other models.

I certainly respect this, but I think it's always been true to a degree and seems to be more so these days -- if you want the best tools (each in their own class), you can't buy from a single vendor. The best jigsaw isn't made by the folks with the best miter saw and so on. Just a thought.I know that, Bill, I dont buy from all one vendor, the only reason I say that in this situation, is because I've been keeping up with 12"SCMS for over a year now, (not a priority for me) and the Bosch and Makita have always been the top 2 on my list, because of what I've read in magazines, WW forums and heard from others I know.

I like the the features of the Bosch more than I like the Makita, but the only reason I even consider the Makita is because I've never heard a complaint about it and I did here from a few (very few) that the Bosch isnt so accurate on all miters.

Right now, if I was to buy all the tools I needed, probably the only Bosch tool I would buy would be the SCMS. If I was looking for a rotary sander or a circular saw, Id probably go with Festool. For nailers, it would probably be Porter Cable. Id probably get the DeWalt belt sander and a Hilti rotary hammer. You get the point

I made one purchase that I regret and every time I think about it, it bothers me very much, so now I do very extensive research before I buy anything.

[Ed Frie]

I bought an after market laser for my makita and love it. Is it necessary, no, but it is helpful.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Jeff,

I can cut 2X12, 4X4 and 4X6 stock on my 10 inch makita. IMO unless you plan on doing large crown molding or double bevel cuts on 4X stock you are further ahead with a 10 inch saw. Lower up front cost, lower blade cost, and less deflection are my reasons. I also like the blade that came in the Makita.

If you have plans for tall molding then a 12 inch is in order.

Just my thoughts on it.

[Per Swenson]

Hello all,

This topic comes up often,

Here is my opinion anyway.

Any of the big three that cost over $500 dollars

are darn respectable tools.

However, I primarily use the 1214 makita, daily.

Why did I choose this one? Most of the reasons are petty.

I am not going to make more or less money with any of the top 3.

The finished work will not be reflected by the name of the saw either.

I like the color yellow only on tape measures and Tonka trucks.

The Bosch is heavier then the makita and I have to carry my own tools

during the slow months. Oh, the green Makita looks better with my work

atire. (My daughter thought so, she picked it out)

I realize this is absolutely no help. After $500, pick the one you want.

Per

[Jim Schutz]

I ordered the Bosch 5412L this morning. Looks to be a great saw. Not sure I will need the height capacity of the 12 very much, but I've under bought tools a few too many times and decided to get the 12 for flexibility.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions!

Jim

[Allen Grimes]

Let us know how it works out, Jim. I'd be very interested in what you think about the tool once you put it to some use.