Robust American Beauty vs Sweet 16

[Paul Heely]

Is there any "sane" reason to consider the Robust Sweet 16 over the American Beauty if I can afford either one? I'm looking to upgrade my PM 3520b and will be at Trent Bosch's place in the next couple of weeks and expect to place an order while I'm there. I've turned on both previously. I can't put my finger on it, but there's just something about the Sweet 16 that appeals to me. I'd order a short bed one if I did. I mostly turn hollow forms, and typically do a batch of bowls once a year for the holidays.

Looking for a sanity check, or someone to smack me upside the head and say why would you consider anything but the American Beauty....

Thanks for the free therapy session.

Paul

[Earl McLain]

I have a Sweet 16 standard bed, and spent a week on an AB at a class last summer--and definitely a "weekender"--limited observation. Sweet 16 came up used locally when i was looking, and i could not pass it up. The swing-away tail stock is a feature worth having. The AB version is more robust (no pun intended), but so is the tail stock--so they are equals in terms of use to me. I turn more bowls than anything, so i would have preferred the sliding head stock--but i'm living with that just fine.
Using a corner of my garage as a shop/studio--the Sweet 16 is an ideal fit for me. If space were not a object--my nod would go to the American Beauty. Both have been great to turn on.
If you're doing primarily hollow forms--are you using a hollowing system and would the Sweet 16 bed (at any of the lengths) give you what you need in that regard?
If you have to be in a position to make a decision--nice choices to draw from!! Good luck!!
earl

[Paul Heely]

Ah, yes. How I hollow would be good information. While I have a both of Trent's hollowing stabilizers and his visualizer, I lean towards my Ellsworth hollowing tools 99% of the time. I originally learned hollowing from a couple of weekends at David's workshops and while I have tried other methods I keep coming back to the simplicity of his methods. I'm going to spend time with Trent hopefully learn more about his surface treatment methods rather than his hollowing techniques. As far as hollowing goes, my only concern with bed length is being able to get myself close enough to the work to hollow, hence my thought towards the short bed Sweet 16, or of course the sliding headstock of the American Beauty.

Paul.

[Randy Heinemann]

I went through this decision about a year ago. It was between a Powermatic 3520C, an American Beauty, and a Sweet 16. I was advised at the time (by a professional woodturner) that the American Beauty is, by far, preferred based on capability. Also, I think that my comparison indicated that the differential in price between the two wasn't worth not going with the American Beauty. My feeling on it is that, if you can afford the price difference and there are no other reasons not to buy, buy the American Beauty. It's a lathe for life. Depending on what you use it for, it would likely serve all your needs and more.

[Sam Force]

Curious as to what are your dislikes with the PM3520B? I have one of those and could not imagine needing something bigger or better. I did rig a remote control box for mine but otherwise I love my PM.

[Steve Nix]

When I attended Trent’s workshop a few years ago he had the sweet 16 and the AB. You should be able to decide for yourself which one you prefer. I’ve turned on both and own a AB.

[Randy Heinemann]

I attended Trent’s class last fall and I believe he has all American Beauty lathes now. His advice was to go with the American Beauty. That’s what I used in class. Can’t ask for a better lathe. However I love my 3520c also. Fit and finish is better the Robust though.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

When I was looking, I had a similar choice between Sweet 16 and the AB - The AB won the day with the sliding headstock. I turn mostly bowls and platters, some boxes and turning off the end of the bed is my preference. The Sweet 16 offered a lot, but the lack of a sliding headstock was a non-starter for me. Size difference between the two is minimal in practice - at least that was my impression on trying both, and there's plenty of room for either in my shop.

[Paul Heely]

Curious as to what are your dislikes with the PM3520B? I have one of those and could not imagine needing something bigger or better. I did rig a remote control box for mine but otherwise I love my PM.

There's a couple of things that to me are not ideal. First is the height adjustment range. I tend to turn in batches and like to set the lathe up for what I'll be doing for a bit. While it's easy to raise the lathe up on blocks, it's a bit harder to lower the lathe when using my Ellsworth style hollowing tools. I've gone the build a platform route, but it's heavy and a pain to deal with. My back's not as young as it used to be so I find having the lathe at just the right height for me is getting more important for long turning sessions. Second is access to my work around the headstock. The 3520b headstock is a lot chunkier to work around than the Robust lathe's I've worked on. While I can can turn right or left handed, I would appreciate better access when working on the foot of a turning.

I've been turning on my 3520b since 2008/2009, can't remember exactly. None of these are show stoppers, and if I couldn't afford to replace my Powermatic I'd happily keep turning on it. But, I'm in a position where I can upgrade and address some long term annoyances.

[Sam Force]

I do understand the working around the headstock it is an issue at times. Instead of needing a platform I put my lathe on 7 1/2 inch risers and built a platform for others to use when in my shop. There are days that I think about taking 2 inches off the risers but have yet to do so. I have not used the sliding headstock as i want to somewhat limit where the shavings fly too. Maybe if i have an opportunity to try an AB or sweet 16 i would change my thoughts but i could spend that money on upgrading the electronics on my boat. The other expensive hobby I have. :eek:

[Reed Gray]

The sliding headstock is a huge plus for me. I am a bowl turner mostly. Having that feature is a huge plus. I do not like turning bowls on a long bed lathe. You either have to lean against the lathe for turning and/or hold your arms out away from your body, which is how Stuart Batty turns. I could learn to do it that way, but after having a sliding headstock for most of my turning career, I will stick to that. The other variation is a pivoting headstock. I have a Vicmark 240 which pivots to 30 and 90 degrees. I use the 30 degree setting for the bowls I turn on it, and prefer it to my AB. I do have the very early AB, which has 3 speeds. I prefer that to the 2 speed lathes. The Vic also has 3 speeds, and the 'turns off' speed is about 5 rpm, another huge plus for sanding my warped bowls. I had Brent walk me through adjusting the parameters on the AB so it goes down to just under 15 rpm.

robo hippy

[Bernie Kopfer]

I’m blown away! There appears to be a $3000+ difference between the PM and AB. The Robust lathe is well loved, seldom hear a bad word about it. But 3G difference? I would be pleased to be enlightened. Somewhere someone must have done a head to head hands on comparison.

[Reed Gray]

Biggest difference is that the AB is made in the USA, the PM is not. The AB has a stainless bed/ways so there are no rusting issues with the bed. I had heard claims that the stainless was not as good at absorbing vibrations as the cast iron. as near as I could tell, they just made different noises. Over all quality on both is good, but I would give a slight edge to the AB. The AB also has telescoping legs so you can adjust the height easily. The early PM 3520s did not. I think there is a riser block for them now, but can't remember. Another difference is the tilt away for the tailstock on the AB. Best one out there, by far. Both have a wedge locking system for the tool rests. The early versions on the AB had a floating wedge so it would pivot some times and you would have to move it a bit to get a tool post into the lathe. The 3520C fixed that problem, and I do remember that when they first came out, I saw them at an AAW Symposium and the PM rep commented that Brent English, owner of Robust, had checked it out very closely. I would guess he has fixed the problem. Not much of one, but annoying at times. I think the AB still comes with a choice of 2 or 3 hp motors. PM only has 2 hp. I think the 2 hp works better with a 3 speed lathe. Neither the PM or AB has that available, though the AB used to have that.

robo hippy

[Bernie Kopfer]

Biggest difference is that the AB is made in the USA, the PM is not. The AB has a stainless bed/ways so there are no rusting issues with the bed. I had heard claims that the stainless was not as good at absorbing vibrations as the cast iron. as near as I could tell, they just made different noises. Over all quality on both is good, but I would give a slight edge to the AB. The AB also has telescoping legs so you can adjust the height easily. The early PM 3520s did not. I think there is a riser block for them now, but can't remember. Another difference is the tilt away for the tailstock on the AB. Best one out there, by far. Both have a wedge locking system for the tool rests. The early versions on the AB had a floating wedge so it would pivot some times and you would have to move it a bit to get a tool post into the lathe. The 3520C fixed that problem, and I do remember that when they first came out, I saw them at an AAW Symposium and the PM rep commented that Brent English, owner of Robust, had checked it out very closely. I would guess he has fixed the problem. Not much of one, but annoying at times. I think the AB still comes with a choice of 2 or 3 hp motors. PM only has 2 hp. I think the 2 hp works better with a 3 speed lathe. Neither the PM or AB has that available, though the AB used to have that.

robo hippy
Thanks Reed for the objective reply/comparison. I’m presently happy with my PMb. Funny how we decide what has value to us. I ride a $9G mountain bike and lust after the newer model. Tell myself I’m worth it etc, but can’t justify the AB because it’s for my hobby. 😙😇

[Jason Edwards]

I’m blown away! There appears to be a $3000+ difference between the PM and AB. The Robust lathe is well loved, seldom hear a bad word about it. But 3G difference? I would be pleased to be enlightened. Somewhere someone must have done a head to head hands on comparison.

Well Bernie, I think you're looking at a Taiwanese machine (PM) that's built down to a price point, and a US made machine (AB) built up to a quality level. Don't get me wrong, PM is a good value, but not apples and oranges.

[Robert Henrickson]

I’m blown away! There appears to be a $3000+ difference between the PM and AB. The Robust lathe is well loved, seldom hear a bad word about it. But 3G difference? I would be pleased to be enlightened. Somewhere someone must have done a head to head hands on comparison.


Actually you ought to be comparing the PM 4224 (not a 3520) to the AB in terms of specs -- when I checked recently, there was relatively little difference in price (less than $1000 difference depending on options chosen for the AB). Having owned a 3520B, there would be no choice (and wasn't -- I replaced the PM with an AB). I used a Sweet 16 for a weeklong class at Arrowmont -- very nice but I much prefer a sliding headstock, so I went AB. I previously had a Jet 1642 for years and preferred it to the PM. I still have the 1642.

[Bill Bukovec]

I have the American Beauty because I like a sliding head.

Someone one asked why not just buy a 3520 and save $3,000. For the extra money, I got a 3hp motor, 24" diameter swing and a tilt away tailstock. Oh, I also have a long bed, so I may have exceeded the $3,000 difference. Worth every penny to me.

[roger wiegand]

I can't compare them, as I've never turned on the Sweet 16. I will say I have no reason to even begin to regret going with the AB. As with everything, it depends on what you want the tool to do, I suppose. I'm not sure in what way the Sweet 16 might be superior beyond price and perhaps portability. If you're a pen turner either is undoubtedly overkill, though I've made quite a few nice pens on my AB. I can also core out 24" bowls that I have no use for but have a lot of fun making. I have not yet found, and don't really expect to find, any use for which the AB is inadequate to my skills and needs. For better or worse, I'm at the point where I can't really plan on future upgrades of tools so I just get things that I think will exceed my needs and skills for as long as I'll be able to use them. It's a fortunate position to be in.

[Paul Heely]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I'm definitely going to go with the AB. Now for the fun of having a basement shop. Luckily I only have about 10 bulkhead steps to go down that are a straight shot and with easy access from outside. And whoever buys my 3520b will have to get it out of the basement. From what I've read it shouldn't be too bad.

Now to get out to Trent's next week and then let the waiting game begin.

[David M Peters]

Good call on the AB. In a few years you won't miss the money and won't have lingering regrets. I'd miss the 3HP motor for bowl coring operations.

Tip: the lathe can be built with pluggable headstock wiring, letting you fully disassemble it. I used to have a similar basement shop situation and was able to move it down (and later back up when I moved) in pieces on a hand truck. This task you'll likely want to leave to people with younger backs, but at least the loads are more maneuverable.