Bar Rail - attaching wooden rail to stone counter

[Phillip Mitchell]

A client contacted me yesterday asking about fabricating and installing some new wooden bar rail for a home bar that got a new quartz countertop and apparently the old rail got thrown out accidentally when it was replaced.

What method / design would you use to attach new rail along the edges of the bar with a quartz top? A few photos sent to me of existing / past below. He mentioned trying to match / keep nearby handrail profile in my mind with new bar rail (looks like a pretty stock top rail profile to me) and there is a photo of the old bar rail before new counter went in.

Any thoughts?

[Jamie Buxton]

I'd attach the rail to the cabinet, nestled up against the stone. Basically screws. Maybe you can angle them to hide them, but you may need to use wooden plugs. The big issue may be that the stone doesn't have a uniform overhang on the cabinet.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I'd attach the rail to the cabinet, nestled up against the stone. Basically screws. Maybe you can angle them to hide them, but you may need to use wooden plugs. The big issue may be that the stone doesn't have a uniform overhang on the cabinet.

Thanks Jamie. Yeah, that was along the lines of what I was thinking but have not had a site visit or made any measurements at this point. I feel like it would need additional fastening closer to the countertop edge for when someone comes in and puts a slightly drunken lean down on it...maybe additionally some construction adhesive on the underside of the the countertop overhang?

I also mentioned corbels / brackets to the client in the initial contact before I had seen photos, but they would need to be pretty slim/minimal to work with this design. I could see really simple black steel angle brackets/corbels working but obviously no corbels would look a bit cleaner overall.

[Kevin Jenness]

I would look at rabbeting the rail over the stone and using polyurethane adhesive (PL Premium or similar). That looks like a big overhang to get much strength out of screwing to the cabinets.

[Michael Schuch]

I would definitely recommend using the thick 2 part epoxy made for counter tops. It has amazing strength.

I would consider using the epoxy to glue a support piece along the entire underside of the counter top then using it to mount the rail. The more support piece to counter bottom surface area the better for adhesion. Wood glued to solid surface? ...that kind of sets off bells about expansion issues to me. Maybe another piece of the solid surface for the support piece? Uh... maybe even a piece of angle iron? Just thinking out loud.

How far up do they want the rail to come? Integrating a rail with the rounded over edge seems like it would tricky to me. Do they want the rail to cover the entire side of the solid surface like their old counter? That will leave a gap between the counter and the rail due to the round over. Do they want the rail underneath the counter top starting flush with it? Do they want the rail just shy of the top of the counter? OK, WHY do they want a rail on their countertop?

I would bring an any old piece of rail (or even just a piece of wood) with me to discuss placement and have a visual reference for your first meeting with them.

Mill and finish the oak rail then hand it to the customer to give to their counter top installers to install? They probably have more tooling / experience for this? Just throwing out options, not recommendations.

Oh, how about epoxied on angle iron with elongated holes in it so you can screw into the back of the rail to secure it with a little room for wood movement?

Kevin's idea of making the rail quite wide then put a deep rabit in it so it can be epoxied to the counter top with lots of joint surface area is a good one.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I would look at rabbeting the rail over the stone and using polyurethane adhesive (PL Premium or similar). That looks like a big overhang to get much strength out of screwing to the cabinets.

Agreed. Thanks for the input. Maybe an actual “groove” of sorts that the edge of the counter fits in with a small amount of wood bearing on the top of the counter as well. I’m not familiar enough with the traditions of bar rail to know if this what is common (maybe this is what you’re saying.)

I will likely do a few rough sketches and post them here for feedback / kicks.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I would definitely recommend using the thick 2 part epoxy made for counter tops. It has amazing strength.

I would consider using the epoxy to glue a support piece along the entire underside of the counter top then using it to mount the rail. The more support piece to counter bottom surface area the better for adhesion. Wood glued to solid surface? ...that kind of sets off bells about expansion issues to me. Maybe another piece of the solid surface for the support piece? Uh... maybe even a piece of angle iron? Just thinking out loud.

How far up do they want the rail to come? Integrating a rail with the rounded over edge seems like it would tricky to me. Do they want the rail to cover the entire side of the solid surface like their old counter? That will leave a gap between the counter and the rail due to the round over. Do they want the rail underneath the counter top starting flush with it? Do they want the rail just shy of the top of the counter? OK, WHY do they want a rail on their countertop?

I would bring an any old piece of rail (or even just a piece of wood) with me to discuss placement and have a visual reference for your first meeting with them.

Mill and finish the oak rail then hand it to the customer to give to their counter top installers to install? They probably have more tooling / experience for this? Just throwing out options, not recommendations.

Oh, how about epoxied on angle iron with elongated holes in it so you can screw into the back of the rail to secure it with a little room for wood movement?

Kevin's idea of making the rail quite wide then put a deep rabit in it so it can be epoxied to the counter top with lots of joint surface area is a good one.

Thanks for the thoughts. I think what they want is something close to what was there (last photo) though it’s hard to see details because the photo isn’t great and not close enough for good detail.

Im assuming they want it because it’s somewhat of a traditional / comfort function when you’re getting cozy with the edge of the countertop.

Epoxying a “fastening block” on the underside of the counter overhang and then screwing, etc into this is an idea. I will explore that. It would make install of the actual finished / visible rail pieces a bit less dependent on some construction adhesive curing and not sagging/shifting, etc. The miter joints could be reinforced with dominos or biscuits, which will help somewhat.

The client is looking for a one stop shop on this job it sounds like (fab, install, and finishing.) I doubt a stone countertop installer would be proficient at mitering and installing a wooden rail to a degree that I would go to as an anal woodworker.

Thanks for the input.