Just wondering..

[steven c newman]

About Dovetails..:rolleyes:

Some say you have to have the thinnest saw plate known to man...or you just can't cut a dovetail....Super thin kerf !!!....just means more waste to remove.

Some say you NEED a fret saw, again with a hair thing blade ( that sometimes breaks if you sneeze on it) Hmm..one more tool to buy...and still NEED a chisel..

Some say you need x amount of teeth on the super thin dovetail saw....something like 126teeth? My saw has the same amount of teeth, just they are spread out over 14".

Some say..you NEED to build a fancy vise to hold the parts...a Moxxon?

Some say you need to buy ("from me!) a special chisel....some for getting into a thin kerf, or back into a back corner....

Oh, and, Heaven forbid you do not pocess a fancy guide to help guide your saw cuts...


All for something that is just a simple rip cut. Wondering what Old man Hepplewhite would say.....let alone Roy Underhill...

Just sitting, letting the right knee rest up a bit....carry on.

[mike stenson]

I'm not sure I can call two pieces of wood and some screws fancy ;) Made doing this easier though

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PVGw5Hq/0/4af68d5b/L/i-PVGw5Hq-L.jpg

Put 10 woodworkers in a room and you'll probably find 30 ways to do dovetails. They will all work.

[James Pallas]

I donÂ’t want to send a bad message here. I do like good tools and special purpose tools and own tons. I do own small squares, fret saws, dovetail saws, numerous chisels, dovetail markers and such that can be used. I just choose not to use all of that for most dovetail work. I have looked at a lot of dovetails good and bad historical, new, hand cut and machined. The older hand cut ones on what is considered museum quality are not great always. Chips, over cuts, fillers, shims are all there. Opinion wise I think if you are looking at doing one drawer or similar and have unlimited time and materials you can do as you want. If you have 30 drawers to make use a machine unless you have a customer willing to pay you for whatever it takes.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

About Dovetails..:rolleyes:

Some say you have to have the thinnest saw plate known to man...or you just can't cut a dovetail....Super thin kerf !!!....just means more waste to remove.

???¿¿¿ Is my logic off in thinking it is the same amount of waste to be removed no matter what tools are put to the task?

Some say you NEED a fret saw, again with a hair thing blade ( that sometimes breaks if you sneeze on it) Hmm..one more tool to buy...and still NEED a chisel..

???¿¿¿ There have been many posts of people mentioning the advantages of coping saws and fret saws. The ones saying for cutting dovetails you "NEED" one must have slipped passed me.

BTW once the key to using a fret saw was learned, very few of my blades have been broken. If the blade is not tight, it will likely bend and break. The blade should "sing" when plucked if it is tight enough. If one is thinking of acquiring a fret saw make sure it has an easy way to adjust blade tension.


Some say you need x amount of teeth on the super thin dovetail saw....something like 126teeth? My saw has the same amount of teeth, just they are spread out over 14".

???¿¿¿ There is a lot to be said for the person who can cut clean dovetails in a piece of 1/4" stock with a 5 ppi rip saw and clean it out with a single push of a chisel. Again, the posts declaring this is the only way to cut a dovetal elude me.

Besides, once one feels the ease of control when using a saw made specifically for the task it feels great, not flimsy.

Some say..you NEED to build a fancy vise to hold the parts...a Moxxon?

Some say you need to buy ("from me!) a special chisel....some for getting into a thin kerf, or back into a back corner....

Oh, and, Heaven forbid you do not pocess a fancy guide to help guide your saw cuts...

All for something that is just a simple rip cut. Wondering what Old man Hepplewhite would say.....let alone Roy Underhill...

Just sitting, letting the right knee rest up a bit....carry on.

There have been many who have suggested a Moxxon vise is helpful by raising the work so one doesn't have to bend over.

Was Rob Cossman trying to sell kerf making tools here? That one too was missed, my morning reading seems to be missing a lot.

Do you have links for all these post?

Hopefully your knee feels better soon. Maybe it is just the meds that have made you grumpy today.

jtk

[Richard Verwoest]

Ahhhh Jim, you took the bait....

[steven c newman]

Not in least bit grumpy, frumpy...whatever...more perplexed, is all...

[steven c newman]

Nope..no bait...just sitting here thinking out loud....resting up from a late night of drawer building....

[Jim Koepke]

Ahhhh Jim, you took the bait....

Tricked by the master…

jtk

[Scott Clausen]

I bought the knew concepts fret saw and like it but found that I like to just chop the waste out, who knew? The saw, if it cuts well and you are one the waste side of the line its all good as long as you are not buggering up the finished edge. I have a 4 TPI rip saw but haven't tried it for dovetailing. If you do enough of them, I haven't, you only need a bevel, saw and chisel.

[mike stenson]

One could do the whole operation with a knife btw.

[steven c newman]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

[mike stenson]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

Moxon's predate face vises by centuries, but... dovetails predate saws. Use a knife, or you're cheating.

[James Pallas]

I'm not sure I can call two pieces of wood and some screws fancy ;) Made doing this easier though

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PVGw5Hq/0/4af68d5b/L/i-PVGw5Hq-L.jpg

Put 10 woodworkers in a room and you'll probably find 30 ways to do dovetails. They will all work.

Hey Mike, Nice Moxon, great idea a couple of clamps and a scrap to keep things nice and straight. Good saw. The genius part is the tool box to elevate yourself not the work. You didn’t go buy a special stool to stand on. 😂 Great job.
Jim

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

Do you own one of those new-fangled things called automobiles, or is your mode of transportation a horse and buggy? Just wondering.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe just wondering how the old-timers, 200 or 300 years ago, even managed to get anything made....without all these "New" tools?

Looking at the history of backsaws, it appears the earliest example may have been by the Romans. Archeologists found a saw that appears to have had a back. Not only that they had a progressive pitch on the teeth.

A saw with a thin plate reenforced by a metal rib was mentioned in the mid 16th century:


Moving forward, our next clue, is found in H.C. Mercer's "Ancient Carpenters Tools" pp139 where he says that the tenon saw is first mentioned in the 1549 edition of the "New English Dictionary" and is so thin that it is stiffened with a metal rib. He may have been referring to a saw that is mounted in a metal frame, rather than our moden concept of a backsaw

From > http://www.backsaw.net/index.php/2-uncategorised/9-evolution-of-the-backsaw

As others mentioned the earliest dovetails were likely cut with knives or bronze chisels.

Man is a creative creature and can accomplish many things without a lot.

Being creative is what drives some to find easier, faster and more comfortable ways of doing their work.

jtk

[Jason Buresh]

Are the specialty tools necessary. Absolutely not.

But, specialty tools do help speed up the process, which can make the process more enjoyable. If using a fret saw can help me clear waste faster and I get to spend less time chopping and can move on to other aspects of the project, those tools are worth it to me.

[mike stenson]

Hey Mike, Nice Moxon, great idea a couple of clamps and a scrap to keep things nice and straight. Good saw. The genius part is the tool box to elevate yourself not the work. You didn’t go buy a special stool to stand on.  Great job.
Jim
Thanks Jim! Working out of a chest has it's advantages ;)

I fretted over that set of pins. Something about that 60" long case side.

[Clifford McGuire]

Nope..no bait...just sitting here thinking out loud....resting up from a late night of drawer building....

Do you ever use a power tool? Water powered or electric?

[steven c newman]

Go and read my build threads, sometime....

[Luke Dupont]

I know he doesn't always come off well, but I do really appreciate where steven is coming from here, in principal, as I have much the same philosophy: keeping it simple.

The issue is, especially for beginners, nobody shows how to do X Y or Z without a boat load of specialized tools, and people tend to think they need all of those specialized tools. There are a few exceptions to that rule, but I think most beginners still think you need way more than you actually do and struggle to find the "simple" version that focuses on a few core tools and skills.

Then there's also the camp that solves every problem with specialized tools and jigs. That's totally okay too, but not really my style and not helpful for someone looking for a more generalized approach using more of a "few core tools and skills" approach.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with having all of the tools you could ever want for any given situation, if you can afford, keep track of, maintain, and store them all. After many years of woodworking, many people will acquire such a large collection anyway I guess. Nothing wrong with using a lot of jigs, either. But the extent to which you do, and to which is practical or doable for each of us is different, and there's a lot to be said for a minimalist approach for, say, an apartment woodworker without a lot of space, or a beginner, or someone looking to focus on developing fundamental skills.

What you need for every day work is really quite small, and I love seeing people who approach woodworking this way -- using more generalized tools and methods which work everywhere and are extremely flexible. This is why I love watching Chinese woodworkers, or Japanese methods, as the workholding and tools used are typically fewer and simpler.

So, I don't make it a point to criticize really specialized methods, but I do really appreciate keeping it simple. And there certainly are a lot of more refined craftsmen with every tool you can imagine who tend to insist that you do need X, Y, or Z.

I often have the same struggle in programming, where everyone wants to use a mountain of libraries and frameworks to accomplish some simple task that doesn't need all of that complication. So it's like, "okay, learn this entire framework so you can make this super simple thing that shouldn't even require a framework." A never ending source of frustration when trying to find out how to do something the "simple" way.

All that said, even I have a lot of specialized tools that I use because of my situation. Noise constraints are a big one for any apartment woodworker such as myself, so I have a lot of very thin bladed saws, wonky workholding methods, and make use of things like my crude and simple moxon vise to hold work firmly and reduce vibrations that would otherwise annoy people. I'm sure plenty of other people have equally valid reasons to adopt specific / specialized tools or implements. It's just important to realize that those specializations / methods don't suit everybody, and aren't in any way necessary.

Same thing occurs with a lot of Martial Arts practitioners / teachers... Sometimes I much prefer the forms taught by my teacher's teacher, or teacher's teacher's teacher, because the later iterations have been refined and taken from more general to more specialized, and sometimes specialized in ways that I don't consider an improvement necessarily. For this reason, I really feel that generalized methods should be taught, and the specifics left up to each individual who can adapt those general methods for their specific purposes, where necessary. The worst thing of all is when one learns only a specific method and doesn't isn't aware of the more general one, often resulting in things being misunderstood and misapplied.

[Scott Brodersen]

I often have the same struggle in programming, where everyone wants to use a mountain of libraries and frameworks to accomplish some simple task that doesn't need all of that complication. So it's like, "okay, learn this entire framework so you can make this super simple thing that shouldn't even require a framework." A never ending source of frustration when trying to find out how to do something the "simple" way.

I have the same attitude and have a hard time convincing coworkers that sometimes the home-rolled solution that fulfils one specific need is, in the long run, a better solution than using the 2% of the functionality of a framework. Not only is it less complicated but we don't have to worry about vulnerabilities in the framework and constantly updating the libraries, etc.

[steven c newman]

So..today's tasks....in my Hybrid shop.

Set up the rip fence on my Craftsman 8" Tablesaw for a 10" wide rip cut, along the edge of a 1/4" x 24" x 48" plywood panel. Set the 14" strip aside, then cross cut the 10 by 48 strip into about 9-1/2" sections

Then trim to fit 5 drawers and glue those up....and hope there is enough room IN the shop for all of this to happen...

No "in-feed" nor "out-feed" stands...not a whole lot of room, either...on a Friday, to boot.

Yes, both of my Stanley 45s have that slitter iron.....rods can't quite reach in 10" from the edge of the panel

No, Hand saw will not work on this sort of operation..ever try it?

Clamp a straight edge along the cut line...pull the utility knife along that straightedge until the panel "snaps off"....

I MIGHT try a Disston D8 Panel saw for the cross cuts....10ppi shouldn't leave TOO rough of a cut....again...might NOT have the room in the shop for cross cutting at the bench with a handsaw on a thin panel that is now 48" wide


Can't trust the bandsaw to cut a straight line....usually more waves than the Irish Sea....

Looking like a "FUN" day....

[Jim Koepke]

Can't trust the bandsaw to cut a straight line....usually more waves than the Irish Sea....

If a bandsaw can't cut 1/4" ply, it either needs a good tune up or a replacement.

My old bandsaw was very slow and could only re-saw 6". So it was replaced with a much better saw:

476470

Saw marks, not waves:

476471

Having a quality tool capable of doing the job can make all the difference in the world. Sometimes an experienced craftsman reaches for a better tool when one isn't doing a proper job.

jtk

[Clifford McGuire]

Go and read my build threads, sometime....

I gotta tell you...I used to, when I joined. I have a lot to learn and you do a good job of explaining....but your pictures don't add anything to the build thread. They are so grainy...and they don't show any detail when clicked on.

Everyone else's pics expand to show detail when clicked. It would greatly benefit us if yours did as well.

If, for some reason, that can't be done, maybe do a second picture where you do a closeup of the thing you are explaining????

[steven c newman]

If, and a very BIG "IF" one has the cash to do such things...

rather than buy a drill/countersink bit at Lowes this morning, to go with the #4 x 3/4" screws I bought...I have a pilot hole drill bit in one eggbeater , and a countersink bit in a 6" sweep brace...

Not in a rush to get things done...leads to mistakes.

To even USE my bandsaw for this...I'd need 5' of space for the in-feed area ( counting my fat body standing there, beside it) and another 4'+ on the out-feed side....Bandsaw cuts 1/4" plywood with no problems...except it likes to wander a bit along the lines. Bandsaw also has a brand new blade on-board. More of problem of a lack of space around the saw...including that Langdon No. 74 sitting just beyond the outfeed side of the cast iron table of the bandsaw.

Resaws?
476476
Old school works for me...

[steven c newman]

I run a woodshop, not a Photo Studio...

[steven c newman]

The Dungeon Woodworking Shop...welcome to my little world..
476487
Plywood panel stashed up out of the way...
Line of sight through the bandsaw..
476488
Langdon No. 75 in the background..
476489
Just enough room to clear the saw blade.. same amount as I have to stand in..
476490
Fancy rip fence, with a hold-down in place
476491
And..
476492
Just enough room.

Left it about 1/8" too wide..better than too narrow, eh? Then cross cut to 9-3/8" five times
476493
First dry fit said I was that 1/8" too wide, trimmed that off, and this now fits.

Managed to get ONE drawer glued up, before having to haul the Boss and GrandBRAT to take the GrandBRAT home..

476494
Hand drills used...pilot hole bit, and a countersink bit...

Too sore right now..back of the knee is having issues....

[John Lanciani]

The ultimate irony; using a forum on the internet to wonder aloud about people using tools and materials that arent 100 years old...

[Clifford McGuire]

I run a woodshop, not a Photo Studio...

Jeez, I was only asking for some close ups of your work.

Maybe others have figured out the secret to seeing enough detail to supplement your words.

[steven c newman]

Most of mine are in the 50-85 year old range..and your point is...

[steven c newman]

What sort of details are you looking for...ask for those, and I can see what I can do....

That "grainy" look is from you enlarging my photos, after I had to shrink them down to fit on this site.....max "pixel" count this site allows me to post..is 499 pixels for the longest dimension of a photo..

usually, I am just trying to get a Project completed...rather than a detailed "How-to" program......

476524
The Tool Crib I work out of....

[steven c newman]

May not be the "Perfect" tool cabinet...works for me, though...others might have their OWN versions....mine was also to keep the Dust Bunnies away from these tools.

Normally, the doors stay closed up..until I either need a tool, or want to put away a few tools to clear off my bench. I can be standing at the bench, do an "About Face!" and have access to this cabinet....then just turn back around, and back to work...

And, when the doors are closed, I have 4 hand saws hanging on the outside of the doors..
476545
Plus a few other saws inside one of the doors...
476546

Seems to work for me. Welcome to stop by sometime, and take a tour....

[steven c newman]

Just wondering, again...

While cleaning out a groove...
476560
And the router won't reach all the way to the back...do I take the time to reset the router for Bull nose work...or..
476561
Reach over and grab a chisel to get that last little bit .....

Then repeat 5 more times. just so a runner will slide in the groove,,
476562
So I can determine how much to trim off the end of the runner,,
476563

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

Steven, if I understood your initial post correctly, the original question was whether you NEED all the specialized tools to cut dovetails. I haven't tried to cut dovetails in a long time, and the results back then were pretty bad, but then again at that time I had no idea about how to go about the attempt. I think that today I would do much better, but the results would still be pretty mediocre without a lot of practice.

That said, I think the thought you brought forward is part of the more general question, "do we need tons of dedicated and specialized tools to do any of the more "high skill" types of things done in hand tool woodworking?"

The answer to that question is "NO" in my humble opinion. That said, the power tools and specialized tools do often speed things up and make things easier as well.

In Chris Schwarz book "the anarchist workbench," Chris states that a craftsman of adequate skill could build about any wood working piece using only the tools in a tool chest that was typically only 36 to 40 inches long. I think that specialized tools often can make different tasks easier, but often, as is pointed out above, it takes time to learn to use different types of specialized tools, and often a simple hand tool approach, the tools in the hands of a skilled craftsman, can do the task more simply and quickly. That is if set up time is counted as part of the time.

The question really is similar to the tools NEEDED for tying flies for fly fishing. I tied a lot of them several years ago, and actually became fairly skilled at fly tying. (Now that I am retired I hope to do some fly tying again after things fianlly settle down.) The thing is that there are quite a few specialized tools for specific tasks in fly tying, some of the high quality ones quite expensive. However, a skilled fly tier can tie almost any type of fly with a tiny number of simple basic tools, the key is "skill." For most of my tying I used a tool set containing only 7 VERY simple tools for almost all of my fly tying, this to tie all kinds of flies. For many flies I might only use 4 or 5 tools, sometimes even less. Truly skilled fly tiers could do the same thing with even less. I had a tiny number of more specialized tools, but when I became fairly proficient as a tier, these were virtually never used because I could do the same tasks without them, using only the small number of basic tools.

Regards,

Stew

[Stew Denton]

Steven,

Thanks for posting the pictures of the Dungeon Woodworking Shop. You have posted a lot of pictures of work progressing in it before, but this is the first time that I can recall seeing a photo showing so much of the shop in one photo. It is fairly amazing to me how you can make some of the bigger projects you have made with the minimal amount of room that you have available. Your wall tool cabinet has a LOT of tools in it, however, and from your description, it is very close at hand.

The photos of the different shops from different folks here help me think about how to organize my own shop, Lord Willing I finally get one. (Hopefully this year.) You mentioned that your main tool cabinet is extremely close at hand so that you only have to turn around to get a tool form it when you are working at the bench. That struck me very strongly as being such a useful way to work that I will not soon forget it.

Again thanks for that photo.

Thanks and regards,

Stew

[steven c newman]

Just Wondering.....

Lumber was supposed to be Ash....however..one plank MIGHT not have been....the 4' long plank I have been making the drawer fronts out of....
476595
Hmmm...
And another Drawer front..
476596
Hmmmm....

maybe THIS is that "Difficult Grain" everybody talks about....hmmm..

[lowell holmes]

Check this site for an answer.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dovetail+jig+template&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS947US947&ei=oYRAYtjTGoK3qtsPkPqJmAM&oq=dovetail+&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYBDIHCAAQsQMQQzIICAAQgAQQsQM yBAgAEEMyCwguEIAEEMcBEK8BMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgcIABDJA xBDMgQIABBDMggIABCABBCxAzIICAAQgAQQsQM6BwgAEEcQsAM 6BwgAELADEEM6CggAEOQCELADGAE6EgguEMcBEKMCEMgDELADE EMYAkoECEEYAEoECEYYAVCDB1iDB2CRI2gBcAF4AIABNogBNpI BATGYAQCgAQHIARPAAQHaAQYIARABGAnaAQYIAhABGAg&sclient=gws

[Frederick Skelly]

Steve Newman consistently sends the message that "you dont need all that high end stuff" (or at least he doesnt). He seems to really enjoy rust hunting and does good work with the stuff he reconditions. And he plays the perfect gadfly, poking all of us in the chest to remind us that you dont need expensive tools to woodwork. Steve doesnt have a salesman's easygoing personality, so the pokes are often ... well, what they are. But IMO his basic point is still valid. YMMV.

(Full disclosure: I chose to spend some discretionary income on LV planes and a higher end fretsaw. I dont think they make me a better woodworker. I simply like them.)

[James Pallas]

Steve Newman consistently sends the message that "you dont need all that high end stuff" (or at least he doesnt). He seems to really enjoy rust hunting and does good work with the stuff he reconditions. And he plays the perfect gadfly, poking all of us in the chest to remind us that you dont need expensive tools to woodwork. Steve doesnt have a salesman's easygoing personality, so the pokes are often ... well, what they are. But IMO his basic point is still valid. YMMV.

(Full disclosure: I chose to spend some discretionary income on LV planes and a higher end fretsaw. I dont think they make me a better woodworker. I simply like them.)
I agree with your post. It is nice to be able to afford tools that you want. There was a time when I could not do that. I still enjoyed woodworking and many times needed to make repairs around the house. Sometimes I think we dishearten people by suggesting they need this that or the other tool to complete a task properly. That is simply not true. If that were the case we would all be burning electrons and have no need for this forum. We all work differently and because we do there is a vast amount of information available here that is not found elsewhere.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

My rule is never to knock the tools someone owns. Tools do not make one a cabinetmaker.

Steven appears to enjoy the search-and-rescue of vintage tools. He has collected a great many over the years, and far, far more than I own. My preference is for fewer, but high quality. I am fortunate to have been able to purchase many of the tools I aspired to, although it has taken quite a few decades to do so. I am now 72 and do not need to apologise for what I have.

Tools are in themselves not responsible for making the work possible, but in my case they have made the work pleasurable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

Derek, I agree with you as well. It is not always and not in your case that I can remember but at times it appears that suggestions tend to be you need to have this to do that. My first experience woodworking was at home and very young. Our whole family’s tool kit was in a 1’ x1’x 40” home built wooden box. Every job from building garage doors to chairs was done out of that box. I still have the box but have passed the tools to my daughter, antiques belonging to Grandpa. I have lots of tools and I don’t have to apologize to anyone for that. I could still work out of that wooden box and do anything I do today just as well. It may take a little longer but it will be just fine.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

Over the last few decades a number of saws have been used on my projects with dovetail joinery:

476611

On the left is a ‘Gents Saw’ purchased from either a hardware store or home center close to 40 years ago. The handle is from Ron Bontz and makes quite a difference compared to the hunk of broomstick that came with it. It has 12ppi and a saw plate of 0.035”.

Next is a Corsair given to me by my father. Its tooth count is 13ppi with a plate measuring 0.030”.

Third from the left is a Bishop #10 with 15ppi and a plate at 0.032”. The blade can be adjusted so the back works like a depth stop. This was handy on one project with 104 dovetails. Note on this one and the previous saw the handles have been worked on with a rasp to better fit my hand.

The middle saw has my first shop made saw handle. The plate was in a box of junk purchased as a lot. It was rusty and pitted. The back is marked Disston & Sons. It was in the shop unused and every once in a while it would be picked up and given a session under the belt sander or sanding block. The teeth were filed down and new teeth were cut at 13ppi. The saw plate is 0.025” thick. It is my go to saw for dovetails in wood thicker than 3/4”.

The fifth from the left is one picked up in an antique store in Astoria, Oregon. The back is marked Jackson, the medallion Warranted Superior. Jackson was a Disston brand. The original plate was pitted and brittle. It was replaced with a 14ppi @ 0.020” plate from Ron Bontz.

Next is a saw from a kit purchased from Ron Bontz with a 15ppi plate @ 0.020”. This is possibly my favorite saw for dovetail joinery. It may be due to the shop made handle fitting my hand very well.

Finally is a Veritas Dovetail Saw with 20ppi plate @ 0.020”. The motivation for buying this saw has to do with my grandson. One or two of my other dovetail saws were given to him in the past. When he and his sister were visiting last summer he wanted to make a dovetail box. He used one of my saws and did a pretty good job for his first try. It seemed it would be a good idea to give him a quality dovetail saw. A 14ppi Veritas Dovetail Saw was purchased for him. When it was taken for a test drive it impressed me to the point of purchasing the 20ppi version for myself. Fortunately there were some in the last “Seconds Sale”. It is great for thinner stock up to ~1/2 - 3/4”.

jtk

[Stephen Rosenthal]

My rule is never to knock the tools someone owns. Tools do not make one a cabinetmaker.

Steven appears to enjoy the search-and-rescue of vintage tools. He has collected a great many over the years, and far, far more than I own. My preference is for fewer, but high quality. I am fortunate to have been able to purchase many of the tools I aspired to, although it has taken quite a few decades to do so. I am now 72 and do not need to apologise for what I have.

Tools are in themselves not responsible for making the work possible, but in my case they have made the work pleasurable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I couldn’t have said it better.

Just to be perfectly clear, I don’t have a problem with Steven’s touting the rescue and rehabbing of his rust hunting finds. I’ve done it myself, just not to the extent that he does. What I strongly object to is his passive aggressive mocking and denigration directed at those of us who appreciate and invest in high quality tools from modern toolmakers. If not for the likes of Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and countless other artisan toolmakers, woodworking would stagnate and likely turn into the pursuit of IKEA type furniture.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Wondering, again......about what Mr. Roy Underhill would say to Mr. Rosenthal.....

I think he’d say “I want to thank Thomas Lie Nielsen for inviting me and allowing me to participate in many of his handtool events. I have a number of his planes and saws and enjoy using them.”

Suggest you search YouTube before you disagree, Steven.

[Mark Rainey]

I agree with Derek, Steve. Be nice.

[Lee Schierer]

What sort of details are you looking for...ask for those, and I can see what I can do....

That "grainy" look is from you enlarging my photos, after I had to shrink them down to fit on this site.....max "pixel" count this site allows me to post..is 499 pixels for the longest dimension of a photo..

The Tool Crib I work out of....

I upload 2+ megabyte jpeg photo files and the site resizes them for me, there is no need to "resize" your photos. The file for the photo below was 3.02 MB before uploading.
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[steven c newman]

Yet mine never show, except for that line of blue lettering, and an "Invalid...see Admin..." b;urb

test..
476636
Keen Kutter No. KK4c

[Jim Koepke]

Just like a sharpening thread, ain't it.

Back to just wondering:

How many out there use either of these two items?
476626
Or...even know what they are.


"Or...even know what they are." ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿Qué?????????????????

It would surprise me if there are a few who visit SMC that didn't know what they are. Many here have provided documentation on restoring them from rust hunts.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Yes, JK, I also restore a LOT of "Rusty & Krusty" tools....been at it for over 40 years....

A lot of my rehabs tend to get shipped out to those that need a tool....they merely pay the postage ( mostly I do) as I am a big fan of "Paying it Forward".....

As have many others here… mostly without the need to be condescending.

jtk

[steven c newman]

hmmm..that wasn't warranted, now was it, from you.

Just Wondering..
476654
What this crew would have said.....as I tend to identify more with them...than Ivory Tower Residents...

BTW: the shop is normally closed on Mondays...have better things to do...

Have fun....

[Lee Schierer]

Yet mine never show, except for that line of blue lettering, and an "Invalid...see Admin..." b;urb

test..
476636
Keen Kutter No. KK4c

Looks like it worked....be aware that: Uploaded photos not used within one hour will be deleted. The problem I see with the photo you just posted is that you are trying to get a close up with a camera that can't focus at that short distance. Note how the chisel handles in the back ground are clearer than the hand plane in front.

[Jim Koepke]

hmmm..that wasn't warranted, now was it, from you.

So you deleted your post after my reply. You even deleted the image.

Seems like once again a master of the art coaxed me to fall for his baiting.

jtk

[mike stenson]

So you deleted your post after my reply. You even deleted the image.

Seems like once again a master of the art coaxed me to fall for his baiting.

jtk

My post where I commented on his comments was also deleted (Dereks is gone too). So it wasn't him. Either way, there's an ignore function, and I'm now using it.


I'm kind of upset about the methods of moderation in this case though. Let's just pretend it didn't happen.

[steven c newman]

Suit yourself....

Sooo..do you intend to place the Moderator who did the ACTUAL deleting on "Ignore", then?

Just wondering...

[J. Greg Jones]

My gosh, what an interesting discussion. Debating weither owning x number of smoothing planes + y number of block planes + z number of eggbeater drills makes one more than/less a woodworker than just owning a premium smoothing plane, a premium block plane, a fret saw, a, dovetail saw, etc. I have a picture of Roy Underhill using a Veritas spokeshave in Kelly Mehler’s shop about 12 years ago in case anyone is still wondering if he doesn’t also use tools from the 21st century. Look at this workbench made last Saturday-I was there, do you think anyone was asking what tools were ‘needed’ to build this bench? https://blog.lostartpress.com/2022/03/28/ask-for-help/

Forgot to mention, those are Owl auger bits from the 21st century used in a North Bros. brace from the 20th century, so it’s not like one needs to be in one world or another.

As a suggestion, use the tools that bring you joy in your shop and don’t worry about what what others are doing.

[Keegan Shields]

Don’t feed the trolls…

[steven c newman]

I do have a Bandsaw
I do have both a corded Circular saw and a cordless one...and a 8" Tablesaw...

I do have several electric drills some corded, some cordless....

I do have several electric sanders..palm, ROS, Belt, and a Disc/Belt sander...

There are 3 routers in the shop with cords...along with the Stanley #71-1/2

Currently working on a stand, with 5 drawers for storage..for my H-F Bench Top Drill Press..
476680

The Dungeon Woodworking Shop is a Hybrid shop...I use the tools that I think will work the best for the tasks I wish to do...

Currently trying to see IF this style of handle will work for those 5 drawers...
476681
Might need a jig made up, to better align all 5 handles...

After all...it is all about making these...
476682
And..having a wee bit of FUN doing it....YMMV

[Luke Dupont]

I never ever post memes anywhere, and don't care for them much, but...

I felt it might be appropriate here:

476694

[Derek Cohen]

My post where I commented on his comments was also deleted (Dereks is gone too). So it wasn't him. Either way, there's an ignore function, and I'm now using it.


I'm kind of upset about the methods of moderation in this case though. Let's just pretend it didn't happen.

My post was deleted without any discussion. I resent this enormously. Lee - are you the Moderator here?

We are not children and I do not believe that the comments had come close to losing control. They were directed but considered.

The upshot is that the one individual who was upsetting many others was empowered to continue along his way.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

Still just wandering aloud....NOT attacking anyone....

Will still have 4 planks left over from that current Project...7/8" x 5-1/2" x 74"....and I am trying to think of a Project that could use JUST those four boards..

Kind of tired making boxes....building drawers is done for a while....Maybe a fancy-schmanzy Table of some sort?


I use something called The Single Brain Cell Sketch Up....sometimes, it will come up with a decent enough plan....just there isn't a way to hit "Print" and have a "Paper Plan" ...


Table....legs would have to be glue-ups....trying to decide how many boards would go into gluing up the top....since building the top is USUALLY step #1 to making a table....how wide to make the aprons? Drawer, or no drawer? Table top shape? Rectangle ...square....oval?

I need to get the latest Project done first, but......never hurts to plan ahead.....

IF I happen to NEED a couple extra planks....a 4/4 x 6x 10' Ash board runs me about ...$3 per board....just have to go on a 20 mile long round trip to pick them up....about a gallon of gas...


Yes, I am just wondering aloud...talking to meself, seems to work out best for me. Have gotten to the point that I can "see" in my mind's eye how a project should go..and how about getting it done.....takes a wee bit of practice....a few tweaks as I go along....maybe make a few scribbles on a sheet of paper.

This IS a Hobby to me....no time-clock involved, rarely any rush....not really interested in how fast something can be done. When I do worry about "How fast.." I usually start to make mistakes, get mad, and the fun goes away. Some may do this for a living, that is fine....I am retired, and looking for something to pass my "idle time" and have a wee bit of fun.



To quote Charlie Daniels : "If you don't like the way I'm living, then leave this long-haired Country Boy alone"

This thread was meant to be me just thinking out loud....too many try to put words in my mouth, or claim I did something....or claim I am a Master of some sort....

The stuff I build, is strictly for me, for my Family, and friends of my family.....I do not sell my projects...although I do give a lot of them away.

Just sit back and relax a while, sit a spell, take your shoes off....pour whatever glass you want. "Lighten up, Francis "

[steven c newman]

Just wondering....
Long ago, made a jig to help install handles onto the front of a bank of drawers...so that they would all line up..

476698
May have to make another jig..
476699
3 holes, 2 for a 2 post handle, and a center hole for a knob...
476700
I had it set aside, the other day....think I can find it..TODAY?

So, just wondering WHERE I set this jig aside AT.

Because, in addition to drilling a mounting hole(s) , I can also push a scratch awl down through the layout holes, to mark where screws would go....

As these handles are screwed down ..
476701
So...I am off on a Treasure Hunt, again...

Stay tuned...

[steven c newman]

Unable to locate that old jig....and don't feel like making a new one....happens

Ruler to find centersmake a mark at the center of the drawer front.

Set the handle in place, MK2 Eyeball to roughly center the handle over that mark..

Set up a combo square, to the point where the screws will go (2" up from the bottom edge ) pilot hole for a waxed screw....reset the combo square if needed, to align the other screw's hole with the first one..

Install the screw in the second hole...set aside to start on Drawer #2..next time I get to the shop....looking like just after Supper, tonight.

Just wondering....see IF I can get all 5 drawers done, tonight....and get things set up for the rest of the tasks....


Wondering what I did with that old jig.....:confused:

[steven c newman]

Handles are installed..
476738
Runners are done..
476739
Drawers all work freely...
476740
1st two drawers have a coat of Amber Shellac..lumber was supposed to be Ash....hmmm?

[steven c newman]

From the "Just Wondering" department:

How many here can plan a Project, all in their "Mind's Eye"? To visualize a project in their head, rather than use Sketch-up....or a set of printed out plans?

Have been known to use the Printed out plans..and usually modify them a bit...

I don't have Sketch-up in my computer....

I have been known to sketch a bit on paper.....mainly to get all the sizes just right.

So....Just wondering what others use.....

[Phil Mueller]

I challenge anyone to find any post where this community said “you NEED” a certain brand tool to accomplish a particular task. The vast majority of SMC members and contributors just provide what works for them, in their experience. And, n my opinion, that shared experience is what makes this community great.

[steven c newman]

:rolleyes:

[Rafael Herrera]

I use pencil and paper, despite having used computers for work or school for over 30 years.

However, I see a lot of implied "NEED this or that" from the boutique tools and vintage tools crowds here. Use whatever you want that makes you happy, but don't fall for woo.

[steven c newman]

+1 to that..

[Thomas Wilson]

From the "Just Wondering" department:

How many here can plan a Project, all in their "Mind's Eye"? To visualize a project in their head, rather than use Sketch-up....or a set of printed out plans?

Have been known to use the Printed out plans..and usually modify them a bit...

I don't have Sketch-up in my computer....

I have been known to sketch a bit on paper.....mainly to get all the sizes just right.

So....Just wondering what others use.....
I draw the room where the piece goes then I draw the piece in the room. I get the shape and function from my mental picture into real context. I do this part by eye. I just use an eraser if it looks like my eye has made a mistake. When the drawing looks right, I draw the piece to scale using drawing board and T square or Sketchup. This method works for everything from houses down to tea tables.

[Jim Koepke]

I use pencil and paper, despite having used computers for work or school for over 30 years.

However, I see a lot of implied "NEED this or that" from the boutique tools and vintage tools crowds here. Use whatever you want that makes you happy, but don't fall for woo.

Sometimes my only use of pencil and paper is to write down dimensions of what the finished size is going to be. Sometimes joints are drawn to figure out the best way for something to go together. Often nothing is drawn and the project comes together with a square and dividers.

At one time my advice was for people to buy old tools and restore them. It is amazing how much is learned by restoring an old plane or chisel.

One error was thinking if it was easy for me it should be easy for others. There are those who do not want to deal with the mess of rust removal and other metal work. Some of us find it rather rewarding.

My philosophy has also been tempered by others over the years. Some have more money than time and want to have all the time they can on working wood and not saving a few dollars by spending time restoring old tools.

There are also many who prefer a minimalist approach of avoiding tool redundancy. For myself, it is just the opposite, the more tools the merrier… Up to a point.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Ok..one Project done, and on time, for once....imagine that...

So...there are 4 planks that still need a project...7/8" x 5-1/2" x 74".....and a 1/4" x 14" x 48" plywood panel.

Planks are Ash. There IS a few scraps and cut-offs sitting around the shop, too

Just wondering what to build..for April's Project....

Thinking is trending towards a Table of some sort...drawer? Or....no drawers..?

Legs will have to be a glue up.....and maybe a taper on 2 edges?

Just wondering...

[steven c newman]

IF I remember correctly....when Norm Abram would build a table...it seemed he always started with doing the top first...usually a glue-up of some sort.....

Might be because that sets how big or small to make the rest of the parts

Thinking .....sort out, mill and glue up a top......sort out, mill and glue up 4 legs.....Then decide on how to make the aprons....then figure out IF a drawer could/should be added...then think about a finish


Something like that? Will let those 4 planks tell me what sizes to shoot for...and how to best show off the grain details.....

Just a simple....

[Derek Cohen]

IF I remember correctly....when Norm Abram would build a table...it seemed he always started with doing the top first...usually a glue-up of some sort.....

Might be because that sets how big or small to make the rest of the parts

Thinking .....sort out, mill and glue up a top......sort out, mill and glue up 4 legs.....Then decide on how to make the aprons....then figure out IF a drawer could/should be added...then think about a finish


Something like that? Will let those 4 planks tell me what sizes to shoot for...and how to best show off the grain details.....

Just a simple....

Steven, the answer is very simple: Norm planned out all he built, and created dimensional plans for each project. These were later sold to those wishing to build the project. As I recall, the adironback chairs he made were considered classics, and the plans are still in demand.

As far as I can tell, you do not plan anything, and build by winging it.

With regard to visualising furniture, I would expect that some do and some cannot. The area of visualisation is an area of professional interest of mine, and I work with children and adults who have difficulty in this regard.

When it comes to my own designs, I first play around with visualised images, from all angles (I have no idea how to do this on a computer). Only when I have a concept and rough size, I will draw it out, and then map it out full size on 1/4" MDF panels. These not only become a later guide for dimensions, but help in checking proportions. The end result is then closer to my imagination, but also the best aesthetic for the design.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mel Fulks]

Norm always made it perfectly clear that all the stuff you were looking at …was HIS . “now I’m just gonna use my rowtuh ,then …
“just a tap with my hamuh”

[steven c newman]

Single Brain Cell Sketch Up is NOT winging it..

I have been known to use well written out plans, too.....both mine and others..

Right now, I have a finite amount of lumber to use in this Project....and will have to sort and cut for best grain matches....both for the Table's top, and since the legs will start out a 14/8" thick after a glue up...would like their grain to at least match....

I'm trying to work in the "Order" that Norm used, when BUILDING table projects.....Need a top panel glued up, then mill the 4 legs...then make the aprons....then IF there will be a drawer..work on that..

Norm had his ways of using tools..I have mine. Over the past 40+ years....I think I have made maybe 200 tables....I MIGHT have a wee bit of experience..maybe....

Long ago..I was building 4-5 drawer Chest of Drawers....one every weekend...and sold over 130 such things in the course of 2 years....along with Blanket/Hope/toy chests....Bunk beds...fancy shelves...got to the point, it was interfering with my "Day Job" so I had to cut way back....Was even building pre-hung, louvered Passage doors...that I delivered and installed.....Along with doing that "One weekend a Month" thing..the 2 weeks in the summer kind of backed up the woodshop....all for $53 a day.....

Was working as a "Compounder" making rubber compound for Rubber hose....Sometimes, we would get raw Polymers ( Friable EPDM ) in wooden crates from Brazil...couldn't send the crates back..and they had to go...someplace ( and NOT the Landfill)....Other (Nitrale Polymer) used a 3/8" plywood...that reeked of Korean "coleslaw"....again..couldn't send those crates back...Ground clays...would come in 50 pound bags, 2000 pounds to a pallet....made of 5/4 Hardwood....I usually set aside the better ones to take home...

So..sorry, I do not "wing it", I do however let the wood tell me what it wants to be used for.....

[steven c newman]

Lets see, IF I have a photo of one of the long board's grain..
476909
4 planks like this one...7/8" by 5-1/2" by 74".....cost me a whopping $12 for the 4 of them....@ $3 per board...quarter sawn Ash..

Will start tomorrow and start a Build-along, as well....

BTW..it has taken just about 8 generations, to lose a very pronounced Irish accent....that still shows up a bit when I get tired....

[steven c newman]

Hmmm..This table is to replace a Plant Stand in the front windows....a cheap pile of sticks, that the Fur-balls keep knocking over, while trying to look out the window ( Squirrel/Bird Patrol?) Want something that I do not have to stand back up everytime I turn around....Thinking MAYBE a Shaker INSPIRED table.....something to set the planters on ( a towel, too) and not allow a cat to knock things over....

First would be get the size of the top I need...match up a few blanks for best grain....whether to make it of 3 boards (15" total) or 4 boards ( @20").....by 36" long...

We'll see...and...any drawer would be on the long apron....so I'll need to see what width aprons I can go with...

Just wondering...and thinking out loud....hmmm..tapered legs?












i

[Jim Koepke]

Steven, the answer is very simple: Norm planned out all he built, and created dimensional plans for each project. These were later sold to those wishing to build the project. As I recall, the adironback chairs he made were considered classics, and the plans are still in demand.

Not being a regular viewer the one thing that does stick in my mind was from a conversation with someone who was a regular viewer. They said that Norm always made three of any project for his program to show different stages of the process.

On another home shop program this concept was spotted when during the steps of the project there was a definite change in the grain pattern of a surface.

The convenience of editing video sadly doesn't work in the shop.

My latest project didn't have a single thing committed to paper or computer screen. It was kind of funny at one point how it came about realizing there needed to be a couple more pieces to be cut.

It is a spool for salvaging a few hundred feet of barbed wire from fences where a field is being rearranged.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Shop of mine does not have the budget that some do....no prototypes are ever built. Not enough lumber for such things.

Letting the planks tell me where to cut...
476924
Boards average 5-1/2" wide, by 6'5" long...cut 4 blanks for the table's top..
476925
Couldn't use the tablesaw, so...old school..
476926
Blanks are 33" long...4 blanks laid out flat made a panel 22-1/2" wide.....will whittle that down a bit...and get them ready to glue up.

Again..this is all in my head...no paper has been harmed..YMMV..

[steven c newman]

Ok...that was strange.....photos I thought I had lost...have returned...
476962
This is a rough layout of the 4 blanks for a table top....the same photo that went AWOL earlier today, along with the entire file...

Worked a bit tonight,,went to process the new photos....and there was the MIA Photos, and their File..like they had never left..

Weird.....Gremlins? Makes ya wonder?

[steven c newman]

Just wondering, again...
Does this stretch of Ash have any use...other than fire wood?
476992
Tree was being a bit...Knotty...

Might get even clear wood, depending on how wide the aprons will by...to make on End Apron...for the table


That saw is a Disston D-100 ( the 100 is inside of the D) so it is at least from before 1928....almost 100 years old...handle fits my hand like a glove...has a nice "ring" to it in use...
476993
Basically, a D-8 with a fancy, carved handle....cuts fast (7ppi) and true....enough that I can split a line.

Might just be a Keeper?

[Ron Bontz]

Well, I am late to this party, but my not so professional opinion is this. What ever method or tools work best for you is what you need. Every thing else is a convenient option. End of story. Do we need a Tesla to go from point A to B or would a ford focus work? :)
My little dovetail tools I make were designed and made at the request of a gentleman who makes 18th century furniture. He was using a putty knife at the time. As a once upon a time painting apprentice I used my red devil putty knives for all sorts of chiseling, prying, glazing, etc. The Swiss army knife of painters. Red devil used to make three different thicknesses, and yes I had multiples of all three. :) I found tapping on card scrapers and/or putty knives either broke the handles eventually or damaged the mallet head. Unless a metal hammer was used as in my painting days, and that would damage the putty knife. My first version of my dovetail tool was basically a putty knife with an 0.025" plate fastened into a slotted piece of brass. Dumped that version because it eventually damaged the wooden mallet. We woodworkers do tend to be like automobile owners. Some want the Tesla and others do just as well with the little ford focus. Your craftsmanship is all that really matters.

[Ron Bontz]

I run a woodshop, not a Photo Studio...

:D That was a pretty good one. I'll have to remember that one the next time someone tells me I need a bigger shop. :)

[steven c newman]

Again..just thinking out loud...edges have been ripped to remove most of the waviness...second attempt at grain matching..
477028
Too much? Add a Bread board end across this landscape?

Have work for the Stanley No. 8c...
477029
To joint those edges for a glue up....

I do have ONE leg blank in the clamps, tonight..
477030
Trying to match up grain on these 8 pieces....
477031

Will glue the other 3 up later.

Blank for the table top is at 7/8" x 18" x 33"......legs are looking like 1-3/4" x 1-3/4" x 20"....sound about right? With or without bread board ends?

Width to rip the aprons to?

Just thinking and wondering out loud...happens every project...

[steven c newman]

From the Just Wondering Department.....
Have the Stanley No.8c all set up and ready to go.

Boards are 33" long....

To check how straight an edge....I do have a 3' Tinner's Ruler ( steel yard stick) that I could use.....OR.....a 4' Level....That I can just sit on the edges, and be free to look for any gaps...

Which would you all use?

Also...would the No. 8c be too big of a plane....

[Scott Clausen]

I couldn’t have said it better.

Just to be perfectly clear, I don’t have a problem with Steven’s touting the rescue and rehabbing of his rust hunting finds. I’ve done it myself, just not to the extent that he does. What I strongly object to is his passive aggressive mocking and denigration directed at those of us who appreciate and invest in high quality tools from modern toolmakers. If not for the likes of Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and countless other artisan toolmakers, woodworking would stagnate and likely turn into the pursuit of IKEA type furniture.

Steven in my opinion is doing a little tongue in cheek poking at the nothing but the best tool crowd. He does a lot of great work in a minimalist shop (dungeon) with basic tools. I wouldn't feel threatened by his ribbing. I have some vintage tools and some premium. As the cost of vintage approaches the cost of premium I go with premium. At least I found out what I like and use before going premium. Steven is a great guy and has helped me out as I was getting into woodworking by donating a miter box saw. I needed a screw to replace one missing on my just purchased Stanley 78 so he taped it to the saw. Can be a little dry delivery on humor but is someone I can call a friend.

[steven c newman]

Some need to read a bit further down...as there are a few questions I am asking (nicely)


Mainly to do with the current Project.....

Those that still want to fuss & fight...can carry on elsewhere....I have "moved on".....take it for what it is....

[steven c newman]

Hint:
477102
And...
477103

[steven c newman]

From the "Just Wondering" department...

Did you know...those F style clamps sold at Harbor Freight, have Lifetime Warranty .....Had a 24" one, that the rubber grip handle had broke...took it in to the store..walked back out with a brand new one, no charge.

Did you know....that those ads you get in your email from harbor Freight....and have trouble getting them to print out..or don't have a printer...Well, there is a number at the bottom of each coupon, you copy that number down, give it to the clerk at check-out time....and they will ring that number up...and give you it's discount...

Did you know....that Stanley made a "Boy-proof" block plane? The No. 118 Steel bodied, low angle block plane.....can even be dropped onto a concrete classroom floor, with no damage.
477153
Just wondering, again...

[steven c newman]

From the "Just wondering" Department:


Mortise & Tenon.

Mortise or tenon first?

I MIGHT try doing the mortises first...
477276
Then try to fit tenons to them....

Have a few to do...
477277
Have found that IF I do the bead details first on the aprons...
477278
That when I remove the waste for the tenons....any chip-out from the plane's cutter exit point...goes with the waste...

So....Mortise first..or Tenon first?

[steven c newman]

I guess I will go the way I usually go....tenons first....get all 8 milled...THEN chop the matching mortises...

Will see how it goes, this coming Saturday afternoon....

[steven c newman]

Not an April Fools joke....Central Ohio, April 9th...32 degrees outside..and we are having a snow shower? Most is melting,, except of already cold places like cars and roof....nice BIG flakes, too..

BAH! HUMBUG!


Going to be in the 60s starting Monday? Welcome to Ohio..

Might just go and hide out in the shop, today.....because it be "UGLY" outside...I hate snow..

[steven c newman]

Ok...was just wondering out loud.....as to the differences between a Migraine Headache and a TIA ( "Mini Stroke")

Since it has been over a year since I have had either one....memory is a bit foggy in that regard.

"Day After"...still have the headache, and spots are still numb....they still work, just can't feel anything with them..

Just working....

[steven c newman]

I guess nobody knows?

Still having issues with numbness in the left hand......brain is having issues with this keyboard...headache has settled in right behind the right eye socket....

[George Yetka]

butt them up and pasload them

[Bruce Mack]

I guess nobody knows?

Still having issues with numbness in the left hand......brain is having issues with this keyboard...headache has settled in right behind the right eye socket....
I just saw this Steven. One cannot distinguish by history. In older people (you), stroke must be excluded ASAP. Go to the emergency room today to be clinically assessed and to get an MRI of the brain.

[John Goodrich]

Steven, if you haven't already, you do need to get to the emergency room immediately. Let the doctors do the diagnosing, time is of the essence. Call 911 if you have no one to take you.

[Scott Brodersen]

Do not take a blood thinner -- strokes are either a bleed or a clot and you can't tell which. A blood thinner like aspirin would be bad news if you have a bleed.

Get to the ER!

[steven c newman]

Blood thinners were ended last year, with the installation of a "Watchman" in the heart...Ended the Thinners last August.

Was just a Migraine....stress level caused. Have had them since elementary school....nasty things.

Before that Watchman...I got a couple TIAs....None since. Also had one bleeder, and none since.

Only numbness right now is from an old construction job incident...2 fingers will always stay numb. Guilty hammer...was buried in a foundation, having been confirmed as a "Killer"....and is wearing concrete overshoes....2 people, same hammer..same results....his index finger. Moral of the story? NEVER buy a hammer from ODD/Lots.

chilly, rainy old day outside...be a good day to go and hide out in the shop? Might take along a Laundry hamper....I seemed to work better with the laundry being done, too....

[Tyler Bancroft]

Not being a regular viewer the one thing that does stick in my mind was from a conversation with someone who was a regular viewer. They said that Norm always made three of any project for his program to show different stages of the process.

This is one of the reasons I enjoy Roy Underhill so much – it's my understanding that they go into the shop and film each episode straight through.

[steven c newman]

Maybe...but, IF you watch closely ....you will see Roy has bits and pieces scattered about the bench.....each piece is a little further along than the others....as he SHOWS how something is done....and rarely shows a completed project.....Maybe "Rachel's Desk".....

Roy's shows were filmed in one take...the "prep" might take a week to set up....but the filming was done in one take...bloody fingers and all.

[steven c newman]

Back to just wondering, again...

Table needs a top coat, or 2.....trying to decide what goes well with Amber Shellac....Poly, or, Laq, or Water bourne?

Brush or rattle can spray?

[steven c newman]

Ok...turned the table onto it's top...legs straight up into the air...Brush on a coat of clear gloss poly ...
477629
Will let this sit overnight...
477630
And see how it turns out...before I commit to doing the top....