Need help with oval table

[Joseph Skoler]

I have a covered wraparound porch 12' deep off each side and would like to put an oval table off the corner.

I'm thinking 10-11' long by 4' wide, so seat 12-14 ppl.

But, as I start thinking about it I realize that oval tables can be made in an infinite number of exact sizes depending on the curve of the perimeter of the table. So now I'm confused.

Here is a drawing of the porch with just a quick sketch of a table:

476299


Here is what I mean by infinite number of actual shapes:

476300

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Any suggestions on what exact shape/size to use?

Thank you!

[Howard Pollack]

This is purely an aesthetic issue, like which color do you prefer, green or blue... You and your wife are the only ones who can make the decision as to what you'd like and what suits you best.- Howard

[johnny means]

I prefer an actual ellipse, This provides a shape where everyone can look across the table at each other, while still providing adequate place settings for all seating positions. It is as close to being a circle you can get without being a circle.

[Jamie Buxton]

I find that a true ellipse for a dining table is too pointy at the ends, so somebody sitting there is too far from the rest of the party. I prefer a shape which like an ellipse which is broader at the "corners".

[Joseph Skoler]

This is purely an aesthetic issue, like which color do you prefer, green or blue... You and your wife are the only ones who can make the decision as to what you'd like and what suits you best.- Howard

Thank you for your response.

I was thinking that it this decision has a substantial functional component. Specifically, the degree of curvature affects how people next to each other, particularly as the 'ends,' would be able to interact.

Like this:

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[Joseph Skoler]

Can someone point me to an ellipse and a squooshed ellipse (non-pointy), so I can see what you guys mean?

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

Many folks prefer an ellipse because the continuous curve is more aesthetically pleasing.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Ellipse-def0.svg/1280px-Ellipse-def0.svg.png

[Joseph Skoler]

That's a huge help -- thank you.

So, an ellipse like this looks good and is functional, right?

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[Jim Becker]

Yes. BTW, that image I linked to is from the Wikipedia entry for Ellipse. :)

[John C Bush]

Hi Joseph,
I recently finished an oval dining table for a friend and it may help you choose the best shape for your needs. They did a major home remodel and had their designer
draw up and print full sized drawings for me. IIRC the table is 88" X 44" X 1 7/8" white oak with Rubio black stained finish. Hobbiest here so first time making a big, heavy table like this.
I've done several large NE slab tables but none with a defined shape. I've been watching Sampson boat Co. and Tips from a Shipwright and followed their lead by "lofting" the shape
on a sheet of 1/2" MDF and using that as a template to cut and router the final shape. Used a 1 1/4" round over bit to to contour the bottom edge of the table.
I think the elliptical shape would make elbow room for your guests at the table ends too compromised--if their dining habits are like my inlaws--but it would make conversation easier.
I have pics of the lofting if helpful.476328476329Should be a fun project. Best wishes. John

[John TenEyck]

Check out a superellipse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superellipse#:~:text=A%20superellipse%2C%20also%20 known%20as%20a%20Lam%C3%A9%20curve,%28x%2C%20y%29% 20on%20the%20curve%20satisfy%20the%20equation

I've used that formula to make glass tops for coffee tables. The shape changes as you change the variables of the formula so you can pick a shape you like. This one is rounder:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWfeL3aQEZyXj31G5GKKC7l7c9P6c3YMjZe79IHVDEQjiN72 dkuPp5vYVoRTg5I8p8dDs4iqk7Ul7UMonYnHKpkzJm96fuoZuB LqZPH53lJhadd8p5YPPIYr0g-0FSD_M3ghdmKqpzGxdyqa2nZWGvgfg=w800-h600-no?authuser=1

And this one less round:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWTIdU5CnSbE-mxX8_OwPaf5UprPjRbblgqWsQxcgO8m4VXZEZXSzytIP4J0hex 7zDUiXQ7TKa0WVIwSpMSMujkVzGqV3uWTifVwqPZ64ErwY93gJ HRVlgyiIzaiP22IvSfNv0cNZ0TNLgHyPrwYiIPWA=w800-h600-no?authuser=1

Infinite options.

John

[Jamie Buxton]

I've made a full dining table as a superellipse. That's what I was trying to describe as standard ellipse but with broader corners. The table is quite successful. It looks good, and the owners report that the conversation dynamics are great: everybody feels included, from a two-person dinner to a ten-person dinner.

[John C Bush]

Hi again Joseph,
This is a pic of laying out the leg placement considering the ideal 24"s width / seat and 12-14" depth for knees. A bit tight for 10 but roomy for 6.476340

[andrew whicker]

I think the ellipse looks WAY better than the 'rectangle w/ curved corners or half circle ends'.. The issue is making sure the ergonomics works out for the people eating. The image you show would leave some people very cramped for space wrt their elbow room, plate, silverware, glass, etc.

You would have to reduce the number of people in your table to make it work or the people eating (like we all do with big Thanksgiving dinners) will just have to assume that they will be uncomfortable.

Ergo standards for dining are out there, I would Google around / buy an interior design or furniture design book that goes over ergonomic standards.

[johnny means]

I find that a true ellipse for a dining table is too pointy at the ends, so somebody sitting there is too far from the rest of the party. I prefer a shape which like an ellipse which is broader at the "corners".
The "pointiness" of an ellipse is completely dependent upon the ratio of it's dimensions. Dimensions that created points at the ends would be an awkwardly long and skinny table no matter the shape.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have used the string and tacks method. I have always had to tidy up by dividing the result into quarters and making all 4 quarters match. Our table has deteriorated into the shabby realm after 20+ years. There is always room for one more.
I also try to use Spirograph technology.

476341 476342

[Lee Schierer]

Most 2D cad programs have an ellipse function where you can specify the major and minor axis lengths. You can draw your porch area to scale and then draw ellipses of various dimensions to see how they fit in your actual space.

[Mel Fulks]

Jim’s ellipse is in the most used range. Joseph’s ellipse is often used. Both are good . Joseph’s should not get any skinnier, use as is or
beefier.

[Tom Bender]

I'd like to drag the conversation off the math and look at function.

For the few times when the weather and occasion warrant a big crowd for a meal, how will the wait person get from the kitchen to the far diners?

For everyday, how will the table be used, it will be kinda heavy to move.

It may be time to test these out, use blue tape to make an oval on the floor and round up a dozen chairs. Don't worry about the exact shape of the oval, anything close will do for the moment.

Also, since this table is going to be outdoors, in the weather, wood may not be the right medium.

Please accept my apology for spreading doubt

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A work board with a floor plan of the room (to scale), two tacks, several loops of string or thread and a pencil is where I would start. Move the tacks and adjust the string loop until you get a shape you like. Ours is very basic and has to be taken apart to move. The base is a big iron pedestal from a 1800's horizontal boring machine. The top is made from old yellow pine 2 x 4s

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[Bill Dufour]

I think the ellipse looks WAY better than the 'rectangle w/ curved corners or half circle ends'..

Thanks for pointing out that a oval has no straight lines. I would think a discorectangle shape is easier to make adjustable with identical shaped leaves to add or subtract.
Bill D

[Edwin Santos]

The "pointiness" of an ellipse is completely dependent upon the ratio of it's dimensions. Dimensions that created points at the ends would be an awkwardly long and skinny table no matter the shape.

+1
To put it in mathematical terms, if the ratio of minor axis to major axis were 100% you would have a perfect circle. Anything other than 100% qualifies as a true ellipse.
I would estimate the Wikipedia image that Jim linked to be about 72% or so. The lower the ratio, the more "pointiness", the higher the ratio, the "rounder" the ellipse will be.
Play around with the ratio until you find what you like functionally and aesthetically.

[Tom Bender]

A slightly kidney shaped table may work better in this space. It would loose some of the Camelot effect but reality...

Corian would make a stunning and successful top.