Whats your .02 on toe kicks

[Jeff Monson]

I have a kitchen cabinet project in the planning. Was curious as to opinions on toe kicks, integrated or separate? If I use a separate base I can get three lower sides on a sheetgood vs. two if I dont. For those of you that don't integrate them what kind of base are you using?

[Lee Schierer]

What sort of cabinet: kitchen, shop freestanding? Will the sides be visible when installed? Will the toe kick get a continuous trim piece when the cabinet is installed?

[Dwayne Watt]

Not sure how adding a toe kick increases material but one way to dress up kitchen toe kicks is to run the sides square to the floor and then trim back on a 45 to the inset toe kick.
Toe kicks are absolutely needed on work cabinets in a kitchen or laundry room or bath. Never needed on built-ins for storage and such.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you stand with your belly and thighs pressed against the.cabinets, you’d need a toe kick space. Me, I stand several inches away from the cabinet face, and the toe kick is just a waste of space.

Moreover, if you run the base cabinet drawers down all the way to the floor, you get more storage space in the cabinets, and that is good.

[mike stenson]

I think the question is integrated toe kicks. Personally, I prefer to just make a box and put that on a base or levelers.

[Jeff Monson]

I think the question is integrated toe kicks. Personally, I prefer to just make a box and put that on a base or levelers.

Yes, Mike integrated or separate is the question.

[Jim Becker]

I prefer and build a separate platform for lower cabinets that performs the toe-kick function. I find it easier to level and it also means the cabinet carcasses can be simple rectangles without a cutout for a toe kick. I build the platforms for an entire run which also helps lock them all together. Personal preference and subjective for sure. As an aside, another method uses adjustable feet and a clip-on cover to hide the space beyond "toe kick" area.

[Kevin Jenness]

I make a ladder frame. The finish kick plate is easy to scribe, then a run of cabinets are easily set in alignment. Adjustable screw-on supports with adjustment from above allow for snaking wires and pipes more easily but I like to have support directly under the cabinet sidewalls for heavy countertops.

[Rick Potter]

I am no pro, but have built a couple kitchens, and other cabinets. I have tried both ways, and prefer the separate base. It is easier to level the base and then install the cabinet box. As mentioned above, you can also get three sides rather than two from a sheet of ply.

Another advantage for us home guys...You can install the bases before you finish making the boxes. This gives you a little extra time to install the flooring. I mention this because it took me three years to finish the 68 drawer kitchen in my house. I first got the sink unit installed and working with a temporary counter, then did the cabinets a wall at a time along with the drawers for those units (most drawers are not standard sizes). Then came the uppers, and finally the drawer fronts and doors.

Yes, I have a very patient wife, but it's her fault. She designed the whole thing unit by unit. Each drawer was designed to fit its contents.

[Ron Citerone]

I prefer and build a separate platform for lower cabinets that performs the toe-kick function. I find it easier to level and it also means the cabinet carcasses can be simple rectangles without a cutout for a toe kick. I build the platforms for an entire run which also helps lock them all together. Personal preference and subjective for sure. As an aside, another method uses adjustable feet and a clip-on cover to hide the space beyond "toe kick" area.

Jim posted someting like this that showed up on a search I did during my cottage renovation. I took his advice and it worked perfectly, and I would reccomend it. I used a 2 x 4 base and put black vinyl molding on the front of the framing.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I always make mine separate.

You nailed the reason. 3 sides from one sheet of ply/mdf instead of just two.

I use 2x4s for the base and cover them up with baseboard on the exposed side of the end cabinet.

I use the same baseboard for the toe kick that I use on the sides of the carcass, but, I rip what I need to off of it so it fits.

[Lisa Starr]

I prefer to build and level a separate base. Like you already said, I get better material usage and install is a breeze with a perfectly leveled base already in place. If a have a cabinet the side shows on, I install an end panel after install that covers both the cabinet side and the toe kick platform.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Another thing the separate base lets you do is make taller cabinets - like a pantry.
That extra gives you just a bit more "tip room" to clear the ceiling.

[Scott Clausen]

I am no pro, but have built a couple kitchens, and other cabinets. I have tried both ways, and prefer the separate base. It is easier to level the base and then install the cabinet box. As mentioned above, you can also get three sides rather than two from a sheet of ply.


I have never made a kitchen cabinet but ordered a book on the subject but only thumbed through it. I am sure I will in the future. Somewhere I saw something on the separate toe kick platform making better use of a sheet of plywood so the quote above is what I was looking for. I think laundry built ins or shop cabinets will be my first try on these.

[Jared Sankovich]

Separate ladder kicks. Makes leveling the assembly easy.
476112

[Allan Dozier]

I have done it 3 ways. In my shop I was in a rush to make a bunch of cabinets so used melamine and frameless euro method. With those I used the adjustable plastic legs and snap on kicks of the same material. The last kitchen I did it all one piece boxes but used EZ-Level adjusters for the first time. That went quite fast and easy and then applied white skins on the back of the toe kicks. Much quicker than using shims. When I make separate bases I never use dimensional lumber, only plywood since it is rare to see a straight 2x4 and even a straight on won't necessarily stay straight.

[Jim Becker]

I will add that I chose my preferred method largely because all of the cabinet work I've done has been in difficult situations that come with older structures and I don't mean "just a little out of level", but major fluctuations. The ladder frame is a whole bunch easier to accommodate that challenge.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The separate base system is easy to level but slower to install. The integrated toe kick design is probably more popular just because the pros can install a lot quicker. That's why I prefer it as an installer. However, before I got really comfortable with installing cabinets, I built and installed several base separate sets just to aid the leveling. Either works fine.

[Jared Sankovich]

I'll add that I never build individual boxes so separate toe kicks are the only thing that make sense.

[Rob Sack]

I am surprised that more of us are not using leg levelers. They are much easier to level cabinets than shimming built up toe bases, especially on uneven or irregular surfaces. They are strong, relatively inexpensive, easy to install, and only require a face that snaps on with clips. Hafele has a great system with a large variety of sizes and an optional adjustment tool that allows you to fine tune the rear legs from the front without having to reach in by hand. The painters/finishers love them because they don't have to spray on the floor. On the off chance that there is a water leak, the plastic feet are not affected and the toe base faces snap off to allow for drying under the cabinet, virtually eliminating the chances for mold and mildew, as with conventional fixed toe bases. As an added bonus, they provide for the opportunity to run that forgotten water line to the ice maker. Don't ask me how I know this.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I am surprised that more of us are not using leg levelers. They are much easier to level cabinets than shimming built up toe bases, especially on uneven or irregular surfaces. They are strong, relatively inexpensive, easy to install, and only require a face that snaps on with clips. Hafele has a great system with a large variety of sizes and an optional adjustment tool that allows you to fine tune the rear legs from the front without having to reach in by hand. The painters/finishers love them because they don't have to spray on the floor. On the off chance that there is a water leak, the plastic feet are not affected and the toe base faces snap off to allow for drying under the cabinet, virtually eliminating the chances for mold and mildew, as with conventional fixed toe bases. As an added bonus, they provide for the opportunity to run that forgotten water line to the ice maker. Don't ask me how I know this.

I don't like them because I they don't have lateral stability. I set a 500#+ countertop on an island that was speced with them, they went sideways and crushed. Had to repair cabinets, remove the bent and twisted up levelers and just build a seperate base to set the cabinets back on. They were well within spec for the load, just it didn't work. We probably set the countertop down a little "hot" as it was a monster, but people do silly things with dynamic load on cabinets and I don't want to be worrying about that again if a couple clients decide to, umm.., sit on the counters or something. Moving cabinets are also a good way to crack stone and open seams.

[Bryan Hall]

I like the separate base since the yield is higher on a sheet of ply.

[johnny means]

I don't like them because I they don't have lateral stability. I set a 500#+ countertop on an island that was speced with them, they went sideways and crushed. Had to repair cabinets, remove the bent and twisted up levelers and just build a seperate base to set the cabinets back on. They were well within spec for the load, just it didn't work. We probably set the countertop down a little "hot" as it was a monster, but people do silly things with dynamic load on cabinets and I don't want to be worrying about that again if a couple clients decide to, umm.., sit on the counters or something. Moving cabinets are also a good way to crack stone and open seams.

Sounds to me like the wrong type of leveler was speced. Were the going for a floating affect or something?

[Jim Becker]

I am surprised that more of us are not using leg levelers. .

They are somewhat standard on European cabinets, such as those from Ikea, but yes, there hasn't been much talk about them here over the years for sure. A ladder frame is still easier to level, IMHO, because you can do the back without reaching under a cabinet since the cabinet isn't even there for the leveling process. Every method has its strengths and disadvantages.

[Rob Sack]

I don't like them because I they don't have lateral stability. I set a 500#+ countertop on an island that was speced with them, they went sideways and crushed. Had to repair cabinets, remove the bent and twisted up levelers and just build a seperate base to set the cabinets back on. They were well within spec for the load, just it didn't work. We probably set the countertop down a little "hot" as it was a monster, but people do silly things with dynamic load on cabinets and I don't want to be worrying about that again if a couple clients decide to, umm.., sit on the counters or something. Moving cabinets are also a good way to crack stone and open seams.

I guess because we are in earthquake country, islands are not left free standing. Most of the time, we will build a conventional toe base for islands, especially if they do not have any sinks, and firmly attach it to the floor. The island is then attached to the toe base. We have used the levelers on islands on occasion, but they are there to support the island vertically. When we use the levelers, we always attach blocking to the floor and attach the island to the blocking. A moderate or greater earthquake can cause a free standing island to change zip codes, even with a stone counter top.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Sounds to me like the wrong type of leveler was speced. Were the going for a floating affect or something?

I agree, something was wrong. No, these had a clip system built in for toe kicks. It was 6 or so years ago, so I'm a little fuzzy on exactly which ones they were. Probably have a pic somewhere.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I guess because we are in earthquake country, islands are not left free standing. Most of the time, we will build a conventional toe base for islands, especially if they do not have any sinks, and firmly attach it to the floor. The island is then attached to the toe base. We have used the levelers on islands on occasion, but they are there to support the island vertically. When we use the levelers, we always attach blocking to the floor and attach the island to the blocking. A moderate or greater earthquake can cause a free standing island to change zip codes, even with a stone counter top.

Never thought about earthquakes moving cabinets, I can definitely see how they could! Not many earthquakes of note out here, thankfully.

[Jim Becker]

Never thought about earthquakes moving cabinets, I can definitely see how they could! Not many earthquakes of note out here, thankfully.

I can see how that would be a consideration in some areas, and am glad that "we" don't have to worry about it as a regular thing like in California, etc.!

[Scott Bernstein]

I recently made cabinets for my basement and kitchen. In the basement where the floor is very uneven, I used leg levelers - worked great. In the kitchen I used integrated toe kicks, since they take less time to build. Also we had stripped the floor down to the floor studs, so when we built it back with a new subfloor, we could make sure it was even. Also I installed toe-kick drawers in the kitchen cabinets - very useful storage for certain things like baking sheets.

SB