Working Figured Wood

[Bob Johnson2]

I've recently tried my hand at some curly maple drawers, originallyh to practice dovetails. I found out that using a chisel to do the dovetails was the easy part. planing the different surfaces proved that I'm not ready for prime time with this stuff yet. I initially ran it through the planer and that came out okay after several tries, reading the grain of this stuff has me at a loss as it goes every which way. Using a bit of a diagonal worked okay and I was happy with the result. Using the handplanes was a completly different matter. I ended up peeling out the short "curls" frequently and also found the edges do not like when you go cross grain. All I have available are a couple block planes (LA and regular), and a bench plane which I belive is about a #4 1/2 as it's a tad long for a #4. I've ordered scrapers but they are on back order.
Can someone who has some experience tell me if there are a few tools and or techniques that would make this work better? I'm guessing at steeper planes but could use some recommendations as I'm just getting into the use of planes.
Just in passing... I made 3 drawers by hand then tried a couple using one of the Leigh Jigs I borrowed. While the Leigh worked okay you get about zero satisfaction out of it, and it doesn't look as good either. Of course that's a very biased opinion.
I also found there is a world of difference between a Stanley and a Lie Nielsen, both freshly sharpened and setup. And I thought I had the Stanley working well...
Thanks for any help you can give me.

[Eric Todd]

Hey Bob,

I work with Tiger maple all the time. I've found that a 45 degree plane will do fine if the blade is sharp and you skew the plane. But after using my old Stanleys with a LN blade for a while, I got a LN 50 degree bronze #4, and the difference is like night and day. The weight, balance and thickness of the blade + chipbreaker help push this through anything- with or against the grain. The result is a mirror finish.

Unless you want to go 50 degrees, you can get the job done with your 4.5, keep it sharp and use the scraper to clean it up.

Eric

[Bob Smalser]

Razor sharp planer blades, itty-bitty increments, and wet the surface, first.

The best alternative is the thickness sander, if you want to take them to a commercial shop.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3955069/50554493.jpg

Can also be done with specially configured hand planes, but you'll still probably have some of the same chipping you get from the thickness planer....the grain is more fragile in some spots than others.

The foolproof way to do it is with a scraper plane or card scraper.

[Derek Cohen]

Bob

To add to the advice of Bob S (nice figure, Bob!):

(1) make sure your #4 1/2 is tuned as can be (it is a good plane, but ...)

(2) to your already-sharp blade, add a 15 degree backbevel. The higher cutting angle will make a significant difference (even Bob S's smoother is not the standard 45 degrees, if it is the one on which he modified the frog).

There are better planes, but this is the cheapest way to improve your planing here.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Johnson2]

As a first try to improve I'm going to order a new blade for the 4.5, any suggestions on the angle to use?

[Derek Cohen]

Bob

A new blade will not make a whole lot of difference if the cutting angle remains 45 degrees (and the angle at which you bevel the blade does not alter this either). A new aftermarket blade will hold an edge longer, but will not necessarily get sharper.

You really should try a 15 degree backbevel first. It will cost you to do so, and it will let you know if you are on the right track. If so, then you can add a new blade (Hock or LN Stanley Replacement) and add a backbevel to this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Johnson2]

Bob

A new blade will not make a whole lot of difference if the cutting angle remains 45 degrees (and the angle at which you bevel the blade does not alter this either). A new aftermarket blade will hold an edge longer, but will not necessarily get sharper.

You really should try a 15 degree backbevel first. It will cost you to do so, and it will let you know if you are on the right track. If so, then you can add a new blade (Hock or LN Stanley Replacement) and add a backbevel to this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek
If I understand back bevel correctly I have to sharpen the primary bevel, then sharpen the back of the blade to the suggested 15 degrees and then I guess I could add a micro bevel to the primary if wanted. I don't understand how this changes the cut angle, seems it would give you more strenght and maybe less chance of chatter. Does not the cut angle remain the same?

[tod evans]

bob, bob s. hit the nail on the head, mist the board with water and light cuts......02 tod

[Derek Cohen]

... I don't understand how this changes the cut angle ...Does not the cut angle remain the same?

Hi Bob

In a bevel down plane, with a bed (e.g. the frog) of 45 degrees, the blade is cutting at 45 degrees. This is regardless of the blade's bevel angle, be it 25 or 30 degrees. The bevel angle does not count since it is the back of the blade that leads.

Now if you add a 15 degree back bevel (to the back of the blade), creating a steeper leading edge, you have an included cutting angle of 45+15 = 60 degrees. That is, the back of the blade is now cutting at 60 degrees.

Changing the primary bevel angle will not alter the cutting angle on a BD plane. Changing the angle on the leading edge does this.

See the image below (angles drawn as example, not measured).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Johnson2]

Thanks for the help guys, I'll try them out this weekend.

[philip marcou]

Bob, I suggest you go easy on the back bevel to start with-15° is a lot to start with, as the cutting angle then becomes 60° and the plane is much harder to push.I would start with about 5°, try it and if no improvement go to10°. It's much harder to reduce the angle....

[Mark Singer]

You have gotten excellent advice....I always keep a cardscraper handy with a very small hook...it will usually help

[Dan Forman]

If you add a back bevel, keep it very small, like 1/64", usually just a few strokes on a stone. There is an article on this in one of the mags recently. The article was by Ian Kirby, probably in Woodworker's Journal, but I can't remember which one for sure. Check your local library.

Dan

[Homer Faucett]

I want to bring this thread back from the grave, as I would love to know how to get results like in Bob's photo. I love working with highly figured wood and veneers, and have been told that using a scraper or scraper plane will give better chatoyance than sanding, as sanding necessarily frays the wood fibers--if only on a microscopic level.

I am not well versed in hand tools, and I have only played with an old Stanley jack plane I found in my barn just long enough to realize that I have no clue as to how to turn them into a ribbon machine. I'm just looking for what would be a simple, effective method of prepping figured wood for optimum finishing. If it takes 3-4 x more time than sanding and only gives slightly better results, then I'm not interested.

Can someone give me a few pointers on what I should consider or let me know if I'm dreaming here? If I just need to go back up to the power tool forum, feel free to kick me out, but I am willing to learn if I can find a more efficient way to do something or a way to do something I can't accomplish otherwise.

[Derek Cohen]

Homer

A correctly set up card scraper is probably one of the easiest tools (planes!) to use, one of the cheapest to purchase or make, and these also just happen have the capability of producing extraordinary results for those who have not experienced one before. Take the time to acquire a few of different thicknesses (LN and LV, amongst others, sell good ones), learn how to sharpen one (very easy really) and practice a little. A very rewarding experience!

Here is a starter tutorial:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=22508

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dan Forman]

Homer---I have found that a good, sharp, well tuned handplane is far faster than sanding as preparation for finishing. As you have just read, figured woods can be more challenging than the more tame varieties. The general sense is that more difficult woods require steeper cutting angles, as has been described earlier. This can be achieved in a number of ways.

Scrapers have been mentioned, but my experience has been that planes are easier to deal with (I won't say master, because I'm not there yet). I have best luck with my Lee Valley bevel up planes, using a steep working bevel (combined blade and bed angle) of 50 to 64 degrees. I have several blades and can change them out depending on what is needed. The higher the angle, the harder they are to push, so I try to use as little as necessary. I have a bunch of old Stanley's, and enjoy using them, but when I start to get tear out, I turn to the LV's. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52515&cat=1,41182

As Derek pointed out, you can also increase the working angle of a bevel down plane by applying a back bevel, but my experience with that has not been as pleasant as with the bevel up planes.

It is well worth the initial time required to learn to tune and use a plane. One of most important things is to have a very sharp blade, good sharpening skills are essential. There is a wealth of information about planecraft that you can find by using the search function, or by just manually going through the index.

My guess is that your problems with the jack plane you found in the barn, was that it was either not tuned, not sharp , or possibly both, so don't give up. Bob Smalser has a few threads about rehabing or modifying old planes, so that would be one place to start. Another fine resource is here http://www.rexmill.com/, go to "hanplanes 101". There are links on this site to keep you occupied for a long time.

Dan

[Ron Brese]

Homer one of the other things about surfacing with planes is the flatness that can be achieved. Sanding most always creates inconsistency in a surface. Some areas are softer than other areas in the grains of hardwoods and sanding will remove more in those areas, the result is a surface that is not truly flat. Some people can't quite put their finger on what makes an antique piece look different than a contemporary piece, in some cases it's the flatness of the surfaces. A board that is lightly sanded after planing will look completely different than one that has been sanded from 80 grit to 220grit. And the person sanding from 80 grit to 220 grit has been exposed to a lot more sanding dust. The two surfaces when viewed beside one another will have a look of much different refinement.

Ron

[Bob Smalser]

...and have been told that using a scraper or scraper plane will give better chatoyance than sanding, as sanding necessarily frays the wood fibers--if only on a microscopic level.

... an old Stanley jack plane I found in my barn just long enough to realize that I have no clue as to how to turn them into a ribbon machine.

I keep hearing that about sanding too, but believe it to be pure nonsense. The belt sander used well requires the same level of skill the hand plane does, and once mastered, won't gouge hollows, cause uneven surfaces, visible scratches or uncrisp any edges. Once I have the grain raised and the varnish applied, nobody can tell whether my surfaces were powerplaned, handplaned, scraped, or beltsanded.

So my suggestion is to learn both, as they both have their place. You can begin with the beltsander, finish with the card scraper, and nobody looking at the unfinished surface with magnification will be able to tell you didn't handplane and scrape.

Planes are much simpler than they appear. Glorified chisels held at a constant angle. There are several good internet articles on tuning them, some on this site. The only things really important in the smaller flavors like smoothers are a dead-flat sole, and a dead-flat iron back, firmly mounted. Flattening blade backs are the only way to get the cutting edge in a dead-straight line, and flattening the sole insures the cutting edge is dead parallel to the sole for perfectly-uniform shavings.

Here's one of the worst hand planes ever made. A modern-made Stanley #5 complete with blue paint.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302194/230775847.jpg

Yet it takes fine shavings in figured maple without chipping, simply because it has a perfect iron and a sole made perfect after almost an hour with 60-grit wet-or-dry paper lubed with WD-40 on a ground jointer table. The thicker iron helps too. And this plane was adjusted not with fancy fine-pitch, low-lash Bedrock screws, but with a 6oz brass hammer.

[Homer Faucett]

Thanks for the info so far! I had read up on card scrapers, and just hadn't pulled the trigger on one yet. I guess that will probably change, but I'm not all that excited about the blisters and agony I have read about.

Dan, all I can say is WOW! $200 for a plane strikes me as a substantial sum for a plane. Are there really no other alternatives to the LV at a more reasonable price that give you the same results? Thanks for the link to the Rex Mill, it is very informative.

[Homer Faucett]

I keep hearing that about sanding too, but believe it to be pure nonsense. The belt sander used well requires the same level of skill the hand plane does, and once mastered, won't gouge hollows, cause uneven surfaces, visible scratches or uncrisp any edges. Once I have the grain raised and the varnish applied, nobody can tell whether my surfaces were powerplaned, handplaned, scraped, or beltsanded.

So my suggestion is to learn both, as they both have their place. You can begin with the beltsander, finish with the card scraper, and nobody looking at the unfinished surface with magnification will be able to tell you didn't handplane and scrape.

Planes are much simpler than they appear. Glorified chisels held at a constant angle. There are several good internet articles on tuning them, some on this site. The only things really important in the smaller flavors like smoothers are a dead-flat sole, and a dead-flat iron back, firmly mounted. Flattening blade backs are the only way to get the cutting edge in a dead-straight line, and flattening the sole insures the cutting edge is dead parallel to the sole for perfectly-uniform shavings.

Here's one of the worst hand planes ever made. A modern-made Stanley #5 complete with blue paint.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302194/230775847.jpg

Yet it takes fine shavings in figured maple without chipping, simply because it has a perfect iron and a sole made perfect after almost an hour with 60-grit wet-or-dry paper lubed with WD-40 on a ground jointer table. The thicker iron helps too. And this plane was adjusted not with fancy fine-pitch, low-lash Bedrock screws, but with a 6oz brass hammer.

Okay, Bob, you definitely speak my language. I see there may be some hope for me adding handtools to my arsenal without feeling guilty about my pocketbook.

My original plan on my curly maple was to use my belt sander to take out planer divots and finish off with my ros, but I'm going to try the card scraper and compare with the ros with regard to finish.

I may even pick up one of those lousy planes like you have in the picture and try to work one over if there is hope I can get results like that. I think I have seen an article written by you on tuning up a dud and making it great. Do you have a link on what you did to that plane?

I really appreciate it!

[Bob Smalser]

Do you have a link....?



Courtesy of Bob Smalser

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[Bruce Page]

Courtesy of Bob Smalser


Thanks Bob. That is a treasure trove of information in need of a permanent bookmark!

[Jim Dunn]

Bookmarked and 5 Stars as well. What a wealth of knowledge. Thanks Bob.

[Ron Brese]

The mind set that I see when folks first starting getting into hand planes is that they look at these tools the same way they would a ros or other electric tool. Hand planes are life long tools, they won't have bearings to wear out and motors to quit spinning and cords that become frayed. You should be able to buy a plane and keep it for the rest of your life and pass it on, so don't be afraid to spend some money on a nice tool. Take your time and choose wisely because it's going to be around for quite a while. For this reason it is not always good thinking to try to do this on the cheap. If you're just getting into hand planing then you probably don't have the acquired knowledge or skills to make an old plane work really well. On the other hand buying a tool that is a user right out of the box may be the difference between someone becoming a hand tool user or becoming frustrated and going back to abrasives and a lot of dust exposure. Once one acquires some experience in using hand tools, then they will probably be more able to tune an older plane and enjoy it's use.

And eventually owning 20 planes 15 of which they never use.

Ron