Quiet joinery

[Richard Hutchings]

As much as I want to chop dovetails, I rarely have the time to do it where I'm not waking my wife as I like to go in the the shop early in the morning. My shop is right underneath our bedroom. I have a partial garage that was turned into 3/4 bedroom 1/4 storage area. I'm considering getting a shed to put all the yard maintenance stuff in and use the 8 X 12 space for a second, 3 season shop. Even this space has it's problem as it's close to the neighbors house and I still couldn't do any early morning banging. I guess that leaves me with dowels for carcasses and drawers. That's not very fun in my mind. Maybe sawn dovetail and paring soft woods instead of chopping, sounds a lot more fun to me.

On the bright side, I get to build another bench, a simple Nicolson bench would be cheap, fast and sturdy enough for a second shop. But I need silent holding as well, no holdfasts for morning work. I have that covered with a second vise I have and Veritas bench dogs and whatever you call that screw piece. Possibly another Moxon vise.

Another year and one half and I'll be retired and actually be able to work during the day, yay, can't wait.

[lowell holmes]

I use a saw to cut dovetails.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211US739G0&p=dovetail+saw+for+sale

[Derek Cohen]

Richard, work with softwoods. Use a fretsaw to remove the waste close to the baseline. Pare the last bit with a chisel.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ThroughDovetails3.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Richard Hutchings]

This looks like something I can do. I enjoyed your tutorial, thanks


Richard, work with softwoods. Use a fretsaw to remove the waste close to the baseline. Pare the last bit with a chisel.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ThroughDovetails3.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Richard Hutchings]

I have very good saws for cutting dovetails and other joinery. So far my dovetailing involved a lot of banging to remove the sawn wood. Using a fret saw and paring should get me there with some practice. I've done it that way in the past and I don't know why I changed. Too much YouTube.


I use a saw to cut dovetails.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211US739G0&p=dovetail+saw+for+sale

[Jim Koepke]

Since learning fret saw basics, none of my dovetails have needed any chopping.

It is part of the quiet revolution.

Mortises are a little more difficult to make without a little chopping.

jtk

[Richard Line]

A quiet way to make mortises is to drill the waste out and then pare the sides and ends. Through mortises can be drilled with almost any kind of bit. If I'm doing several I like to use a forstner bit, but brad points work also. A brace and bit works for through mortises. Give it a thought.

[Jack Dover]

I'm actually in a very similar situation. My master bedroom is right over the garage, I work wood late nights and the only operation that doesn't make a sound is drawing with a pencil.

Unfortunately, complete silence is never going to happen. You could lower the noice level somewhat, but it still going to wake people. I've tried using sand bags for mortising - quieter, but work holding is a night mare, all kinds of mats - they bounce, and so on. So I don't think there's an option besides a complete soundproofing if a shop.

[Mike Allen1010]

I use a rubber, dead blow mallet for chopping dovetail baselines (after fret sawing most of the waste), set up directly over the leg on my bench. Not exactly quiet but less noise than wooden mallet.

[Luke Dupont]

This is my exact situation, but probably way worse than anyone else here.

I live in a small Japanese apartment, and have a newborn baby. I have to be very careful about when and how I work. Even a saw can be too loud when people are asleep, though the thinnest Japanese douzuki are super quiet and okay.

Softwoods help a lot. Thin saws. Coping saws to remove waste. And, paring.
I prefer to chop mortises when I can (when people are awake and it's not too late that I might disturb the neighbors)... I use a carving mallet that was suggested to me here, which has a rubber sleeve around it. But much of the time I am forced to drill out the waste as best I can, and then pare the mortise walls -- a method which is less accurate and a lot more work, but quite doable. I built my entire workbench this way and cut many, many mortises with just a sharp chisel and hand/body pressure.

Another thing that helps is a moxon vise. It clamps the work really solidly and helps to reduce the noise when sawing and such.

I've been making my own bow saws recently, and part of the reason is so that I can make my own, very thin and very quiet saw blades. The thicker the kerf, the louder the saw.

When you learn to work around as well as within your limitations, you can accomplish quite a lot, little by little, as circumstances allow. Many would advise me that woodworking in my situation is impossible, but I've found it to be quite possible as long as I'm smart about how and when I go about it.

Definitely don't disturb the family and be sure to spend plenty of time with them and make nice things for them. You don't want your hobby to get between you and your family or disturb them too much.

I still dream about having a sound proof shop where I can just wail away with a giant mallet, and the space to store a bunch of wood and tools, but I still get by pretty well even with my current situation.

[Sam Goldsmith]

I think the quietest dovetail chopping I can get is actually when I occasionally use a lump hammer. Make sure the board is clamped tight to the bench, seems most noise comes from that. The mass of the lump hammer does most of the work, essentially assisting the fall of it onto the chisel, it's a much quieter collision than my wooden or rubber mallets. I was verry happy once I let go the old fear of hitting a wooden chisel handle with a steel hammer.
And of course sharp sharp tools. You could keep a strop next to you to keep the edge going.

[Scott Clausen]

I never really thought about prior but I do now as we have been looking at houses. I really like having the shop in an outbuilding, it solves noise and dust issues along with not getting interrupted.

[mike stenson]

I never really thought about prior but I do now as we have been looking at houses. I really like having the shop in an outbuilding, it solves noise and dust issues along with not getting interrupted.

When we bought, the outbuilding wasn't even completed (basically just a post and beam carport effectively). Yet, after having a shop that adjoined the living room... yes.. this is wonderful.

I can also vent dust directly outside, but that's generally not a huge issue for me.

[Jason Buresh]

A carvers mallet helps with the sharp crack of hitting a chisel. Also, a rigid rubber floor mat under the work piece can help a lot too. You need the kind made for horse stalls though that are very stiff, and not the kind used on kids gym areas. The mat also helps protect the bench from accidentally driving a chisel into the bench top. Be warned though, the mats are heavy, and when bought in a whole roll are bulky. They can be cut into a manageable size with a circular saw though.

[Richard Hutchings]

I never really thought about prior but I do now as we have been looking at houses. I really like having the shop in an outbuilding, it solves noise and dust issues along with not getting interrupted.

Only 2 drawbacks I can think of. Heating and keeping the rust at bay. I miss my detached garage but it sure is nice to walk downstairs in my PJ's and do some woodworking.

[Richard Hutchings]

Is that a lead hammer like I use to use in machine shops?

[Sam Goldsmith]

Is that a lead hammer like I use to use in machine shops?

I think this was in response to my reply? But yes, they're about the same. I have the Crucible lump hammer, essentially a very nice 2lb sledge. I use it a lot for seating joinery as well, its mass is what makes it so great, mostly in chairs and dovetails where parts can be a little stubborn at glue up time (no tips for making that part quieter)

[steven c newman]

Sometimes, instead of a mallet, hammer, whatever to pare with a chisel....I will just rest my bearded chin on the end of the chisel....I can sight down the line of the chisel's blade, and the chin will aid the hand in pushing the chisel along....old timers would have a long enough chisel, that they would use a shoulder.

I clamp a part that I need to saw as low in my vise as I can....Dovetails: Baseline to saw to is about an 1/8" or less above the wooden jaws on the bench's end vise....

A suggestion....go and watch how Paul Sellers does a dovetail joint, sometime......

[Derek Cohen]

Sometimes, instead of a mallet, hammer, whatever to pare with a chisel....I will just rest my bearded chin on the end of the chisel.....

Which end of the chisel, Steven?I imagine that this is a one-off technique! :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

What a stupid question that was,, and expected...LEARNED this technique from the oldtimers...or, at least I did...

Since I have been known to be a "Blockhead" about things...I can use me head....solid bone instead of a mallet?


Maybe give it a try, sometime? Maybe even write up on one of your Blogs about this "NEW!" technique? Hmmm...chin, or shoulder? Don't forget..you'll need a beard on your chin, adds a bit of padding, it does.

Would be kind of hard to take a photo of that....need both hands for the chisel, and me head would just get in the way...

Have fun!

[Richard Hutchings]

Paul Sellers, I've watched him to the point where it's no longer enjoyable. I think I've learned everything of value that he has to offer with the exception of his mortise chopping technique. When noise is allowed, that's how I want to do it. Otherwise, out comes the drill bits and paring chisels.

[Derek Cohen]

What a stupid question that was,, and expected...LEARNED this technique from the oldtimers...or, at least I did...

Since I have been known to be a "Blockhead" about things...I can use me head....solid bone instead of a mallet?


Maybe give it a try, sometime? Maybe even write up on one of your Blogs about this "NEW!" technique? Hmmm...chin, or shoulder? Don't forget..you'll need a beard on your chin, adds a bit of padding, it does.

Would be kind of hard to take a photo of that....need both hands for the chisel, and me head would just get in the way...

Have fun!

Chill Stephen. I was making a joke - and it was a friendly gesture, not an attack.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Scott Clausen]

Only 2 drawbacks I can think of. Heating and keeping the rust at bay. I miss my detached garage but it sure is nice to walk downstairs in my PJ's and do some woodworking.
I ended up sticking a window unit in the wall and hung a 5000 watt heater in the corner and have not had any major rust battles. I was going to leave the heat just above freezing to save $ but then though wild swings would possibly induce rust. I just leave it about 60 in the winter and 77 in summer. In South Carolina our winters are short and on the mild side. I was going to do a mini split but waiting to see in I move, add on or build a separate garage shop. That won't happen unless the wife gets one bay unimpeded. I have switched to mostly hand tool work so bigger shop size is not as critical but daughter still wants some larger projects.

[Tony Wilkins]

Thought about this when I was watching the Addams Family make a harpsichord in the old TV show. To keep Lurch from hearing, Uncle Fester silenced the saw by removing the teeth. Don’t think it’s worth a try for you though.

[Scott Winners]

Tangential to the OP, but I want my shop space heated by the house furnace. My wife wants my shop detached from the house. I can understand her wanting to make a few steps outdoors before I come in the house with (less) sawdust on my boots, but as Scott C kinda already got to, rust is a possible issue with an outbuilding. I am willing to run an insulated underground hot water line to my shop space, but if my shop space is crossing back and forth over the vapor point I could easily spend all summer recovering from a rust event on the edges I currently own.

The only thing I got for quiet is timing. Do loud stuff while people are awake.

[Jim Koepke]

But I need silent holding as well, no holdfasts for morning work.

Maybe it is my extra heft but my holdfasts hold fairly well with just a push by hand with a little body effort added. To remove the holdfast push or pull the shaft under the bench by hand.

Give it a try, quiet and effective.

jtk

[Richard Hutchings]

I'll try it. Thanks

[Luke Dupont]

old timers would have a long enough chisel, that they would use a shoulder.


This is what I always do. Works really well. I've even drilled + pared mortises this way when I couldn't use a mallet due to noise constraints.
I prefer to chop mortises, but this works, albeit slower sometimes. Your paring technique gets really good after a while.