Phones

[John Terefenko]

Looks like I need a new phone by Dec. Verizon sent me a letter that my old cell phone will not be usable any more. They will not support 3G or 4G phones that do not support HD voice. Let me first say I have no idea what that means and even if you explain it I probably will not understand it. So it looks like I will have to finally get rid of my flip phone and step up to one of these flat screen phones. Thanks in advance.

OK with that said here is what I am asking. A few things I want is
not expensive
Ease of use( have big hands)
good camera
not too large
good quality
be able to view in daylight

Now things you think I should have and hould ask about.

Thanks

[bill godber]

What ever phone you choose it will have a touch screen, couple that with a tiny screen, even smaller keyboards and large fingers the damn thing will drive you mad. Do a search for "phone stylus" they're cheap and they will make that tiny touch screen usable.

[Ed Aumiller]

BEWARE... We are on the AT&T network that just went to 5G.. Our Samsung phones, A10e & A11 DO NOT WORK ON 5G even though they supposedly should.
The phones are less than a year old... AT&T does not have a solution... We had to go to Apple phones to keep service (iPhone XR, iPhone SE, iphone 6)...
Luckily we had them available....
There has been a problem with Samsung phones on 5G networks... some work, some don't... from researching this for our Samsung's it appears it it not just AT&T problem but other networks also (Sprint, etc)

Make sure what you get WILL work on a 5G network and do not just take the salesman word for it...

Seriously, this is a BIG problem....

[Bill Dufour]

Make sure it has onboard charging so a charging mat will work. We got my wife's new one down to two models one had no way to charge from a mat. You see a lot of replacement charge jacks for phones. Easy to foul up that tiny little jack if you have to use it every day, at night, in the dark.
BillD

[Curt Harms]

BEWARE... We are on the AT&T network that just went to 5G.. Our Samsung phones, A10e & A11 DO NOT WORK ON 5G even though they supposedly should.
The phones are less than a year old... AT&T does not have a solution... We had to go to Apple phones to keep service (iPhone XR, iPhone SE, iphone 6)...
Luckily we had them available....
There has been a problem with Samsung phones on 5G networks... some work, some don't... from researching this for our Samsung's it appears it it not just AT&T problem but other networks also (Sprint, etc)

Make sure what you get WILL work on a 5G network and do not just take the salesman word for it...

Seriously, this is a BIG problem....

Not exactly in my experience. What changed is that AT&T pulled the plug on their 3G network, at least in my area. 4G still works. SWMBO and I both have phones that used 3G and 4G. I assumed because our phones were capable of 4G we'd be okay. Not so, no service as of 8 days ago. The fix was simply to get new SIMS.

I needed to get my phone working ASAP so switched carriers which is something I was considering anyway. Mint Mobile (uses T-mobile infrastructure) has some pretty attractive plans, just beware their coverage seems to be a little spotty especially in sparsely populated areas west of the Mississippi.

[Jerome Stanek]

How much time do you use. I don't use much so a Tracfone works well for me and I get a new phone every year for HSN or QVC as they come with a plan and the phone and plan are cheaper than just the plan

[roger wiegand]

The new iPhone SE is a relative bargain (among iphones :rolleyes:) at $429. Has almost all the functionality of their super-expensive phones.

[Stan Calow]

I have the iPhone SE and its perfect for me. I dont do video or games, just basic stuff. Its the smaller size so it still fits in my pocket. But OP has big hands so maybe not for him.

[Andrew More]

I mostly agree with Bill, wireless charging is a very important feature to have.

That having been said, you can buy after market wireless chargers that go into your USB port. That what I've currently got on my old Pixel 2, and it's been working great, were as prior to this I had had to replace two (once a year) at Google's expense (warranty), when the ports got messed up. Bonus: it plugs the USB port so nothing gets in unless I really need it to, which is about 99% of the time.

The other thing I'd pay attention to is battery life. You don't want it to die on you in the middle of the day, and if you're like me, you might occasionally forget to plug it in at night. A large battery is very helpful, but you really need to pay attention to the battery life, because a more demanding phone will discharge even a large battery quickly.

Personally preference - If you want a bargain, stay away from Apple. We've been buying my wife bargain Android phones for a while, and can usually find her something decent in the $200 range, brand new.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, 3G is completely going away and early 4G phone is what it is. VZ is the last of the majors to shut down the old technology, so at least you have time to consider what's best for you.

My advice? Stick with a major phone brand. Don't buy "bottom dollar" devices and do select a phone that supports 5G in addition to 4G. While you may not "benefit" from the 5G a lot right now, depending on where you live, it does give you more future-proofing since you clearly keep your devices for a long time. (I upgrade about every four years)

I'm an iPhone person and certainly can recommend them from a usability standpoint. The new iPhone SE that was just announced and will be shipping very soon can be quite cost effective for a non-heavy user. The singular downside is it's not a "large" phone so your eyes come into play. But it's a lot larger than the flip phone you're used to! Samsung has similar, value priced but very capable Android devices on the market, too. (again, stay away from the low end versions) Google Pixel is also nice and it's "pure" Android. Honestly, those are the only three phone brands I'd personally consider without a huge amount of research.

You can likely get a price break buying via VZ because they can sell you a phone locked to their network and spread the cost out, but for many years now, I've chosen to buy unlocked devices so I have the option to move to any carrier I want at anytime if I suddenly become unhappy with cost, etc. There's more up-front cost with buying unlocked devices, but the barrier to carrier choice is removed.

[Bruce Page]

I have the iPhone SE and its perfect for me. I dont do video or games, just basic stuff. Its the smaller size so it still fits in my pocket. But OP has big hands so maybe not for him.

Ditto.
I have the iPhone SE 2020. I bought the SE model expressly for its smaller size. From what I have read, the new SE2022 has the same physical size as the SE2020. I have fairly large hands and can manipulate the screen without too much problem.

[Brian Elfert]

You can get a new flip phone that will still work with Verizon.

[Bill Dufour]

At bedtime my phone lives on the night stand on top of the charging mat. A charging mat can be had for under $10 with wall wart and cord.
Bill D.

[John Ziebron]

I recently purchased a new Samsung phone and it is my first phone that has cordless charging. But even if they supplied a charging mat with the phone I wouldn't use it. Inductive charging is always slower and uses more power. Years ago I discovered magnetic USB cables and that is what I'm still using on my new phone. You simply plug a small adapter into your phone and the magnetic mating end of the cable snaps right to it; no wear and tear on your phone's charging connector.

I don't know if this is still a problem on cell phones but I used to keep my phone connected to my charger overnight. The issue is that when it reaches 100% the charging circuit turns off. But while you are sleeping your phone may still be getting various updates or data submissions that then drains the battery down and when it reaches about 97% the charging circuit turns back on. This cycle may happen more than once overnight and it degrades the batteries life. Ever since I learned this I only plug my phone in for about an hour before I go to bed and most of the time that gets it fully charged.

[Tom M King]

I use the largest one that fits comfortably in my pocket. My fingers have a hard time with the touch screen keyboard on the small ones. I don't feel put out by using a cord for charging. Out of habit, when I take my pants off at night, the phone gets plugged in, and goes back in a pocket in the morning.

[Ronald Blue]

I use an Otterbox Defender case and charging mats don't work with it. Google Pixel 4XL. Wife has a iPhone 13 Pro and her case while not an Otterbox doesn't reliably work with a mat either. I haven't had any trouble with USB C ports and charge my phone nightly. I heard the other day that the current iPhone SE works poorly on 5g because it doesn't use all the bands it has. I think that was Kim Komando that said that.

[Larry Frank]

I have a Samsung S21 Ultra 5G with the Otterbox Defender and wirelessly charge with no issue. Some of the new phones need higher power chargers and older wireless chargers may not work.

My home security system had to be upgraded to the new cell requirements.

[Jim Becker]

I use the largest one that fits comfortably in my pocket. My fingers have a hard time with the touch screen keyboard on the small ones. I don't feel put out by using a cord for charging. Out of habit, when I take my pants off at night, the phone gets plugged in, and goes back in a pocket in the morning.

I use an XL horizontal belt holster 'cause it fits the big iPhone 13 Pro Max as well as my previous iPhone XS Max, provides additional protection and keeps my phone always in the exact same place no matter what I'm wearing...or not wearing. I charge wirelessly on a pad on my nightstand. I like the larger phone for many reasons, but one of them is it's easier to see what's on the screen. :)

Ron, I use Spigen thin cases and have no charging issues with wireless chargers. I can do those cases because as noted, I also carry my phone in a holster which provides further protection when it's not in my hand.

[Andrew More]

My home security system had to be upgraded to the new cell requirements.

Sorry, what? Was the 5g interfering with it, or it couldn't call home?

[Jim Becker]

Sorry, what? Was the 5g interfering with it, or it couldn't call home?
The cellular backup or cellular regular connections were pegged to 3G on many alarm systems that had wireless support. Same with many other devices like whole house generators, etc. To retain cellular connectivity from them, they either had to be upgraded with a new communications "module" (whatever that entailed for the device) or the system had to be replaced if it was not upgradable.

[Bruce Wrenn]

You can get a new flip phone that will still work with Verizon.


A heck of a lot better than that, get a Tracphone. My flip phone was $19.99 + $20 a month for unlimited talk, and a GB of data. With government fees, and sales taxes, works out to a little over $22 a month. Was paying Verizon over $35 a month, with only 750 minutes, which I never used up. Verizon also wanted over $100 for a new phone, despite the fact that my contract said a new phone every two years - FREE! FYI, customer service at Verizon is CUSTOMER NO SERVICE Spent over four hours to tell them to drop dead. Now they are hounding me for a sum of money for which I have the receipt. Told them that for $40 an hour and ten bucks a page, I would send them a copy of receipt. That's the same rate local clerk of court charges, so it's not unreasonable. Verizon now owns Tracphone

[Ronald Blue]

I use an XL horizontal belt holster 'cause it fits the big iPhone 13 Pro Max as well as my previous iPhone XS Max, provides additional protection and keeps my phone always in the exact same place no matter what I'm wearing...or not wearing. I charge wirelessly on a pad on my nightstand. I like the larger phone for many reasons, but one of them is it's easier to see what's on the screen. :)

Ron, I use Spigen thin cases and have no charging issues with wireless chargers. I can do those cases because as noted, I also carry my phone in a holster which provides further protection when it's not in my hand.

I use a holster also. Even though I rarely drop my phone I like the protection of the Otter Box. I'm basing my experience on two different wireless charging locations. One in a Toyota Avalon and one on the nightstand. It might make a difference in the base but that's only speculation. The USB C is extremely reliable however. Never an issue in 6 years but sometimes cables fail but not often. Maybe Apple will bring the iPhone up to date eventually. I will wait until the Pixel 7 comes out before I upgrade again. I should clarify the wife has an iPhone 13 Pro Max. Our bill dropped to under a $100 for 2 phones and unlimited data. Her new iPhone was only just over $300 because of an $800 credit. This is with Verizon.

[Michael Schuch]

I have purchased 8 used cell phones off of https://swappa.com/mobile/verizon and only had problems with one of them, it was locked out. I got my money back on the bad phone the next day as soon as FedEx showed the prepaid package was received at their store front. Swappa acts as a intermediary between used phone sellers and used phone buyers to ensure the buyer gets what the seller says they are getting.

I generally stay a model or two behind the latest flagship phones which works out well for me and I pay about 1/4 the original prices. Every phone I have purchased thru swappa has been in excellent condition... except the ones advertised as "Mint condition" which arrived looking brand new. A half dozen family/friends have also purchased phones there due to my recommendation and they all have been very happy.

I purchased an used LG V60 about 6 months ago thru swappa for $185 and love it; being an android guy. The V60 was about $1000 when it first came out. I went with the LG because it still has a headphone port which I REALLY appreciate (Samsung followed Apple and dropped headphone ports). 5G data speed is REALLY nice! I will never buy a new phone again and I will certainly never buy a new phone from a cellular company!

P.S. I also dumped Verizon and went to Mint (https://www.mintmobile.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pros&utm_content=rsa~Brand-Core-Exact&utm_term=mint%20mobile&gclid=Cj0KCQjwz7uRBhDRARIsAFqjulm2w9AOcmsJdQiOz6GK 4Lr6Pe67wPeDfJ2I-7-AEfVgJZBWbTPRbrUaApMsEALw_wcB) (buy a T-Mobile phone if you do). My cell bill went from $80/month for 2 phones with 2gb of data shared between my daughter and myself to $185 for 6 months of service with 10gb data each (20gb data a month total) for my daughter and I (I actually paid $120 for 6 months of service on 2 phones because they were running a sale... $185 for 6 months looks like the current going rate). That is over a 60% savings with much better service and 5G in my remote neck of the woods which Verizon isn't near to offering in my area. I kept my old Verizon phone number of course. We moved my daughters Note 9 from Verizon to Mint and it just took an extra call to Verizon to get the unlock code for her phone, which took all of 5 minutes. If there is no amount due on your Verizon phone they are required by law to give you the unlock code on request.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have been looking at the Tracfone Samsung A02 with 1500 minutes of talk 1500 text and 1.5GB of data for $59.96 plus tax free shipping or the Moto G Pure with the same plan for $89.98 plus free shipping from QVC. Both have a 6.5 screen. I know my Tracfone is on the Verizon network and I don't have to deal with them for CS. I have had Tracfones now for 7 years and the plans work for me. My wife is on a Page Plus plan that works for her because she doesn't use many minutes. We do have a land line for most of our calling.

[Curt Harms]

I have purchased 8 used cell phones off of https://swappa.com/mobile/verizon and only had problems with one of them, it was locked out. I got my money back on the bad phone the next day as soon as FedEx showed the prepaid package was received at their store front. Swappa acts as a intermediary between used phone sellers and used phone buyers to ensure the buyer gets what the seller says they are getting.

I generally stay a model or two behind the latest flagship phones which works out well for me and I pay about 1/4 the original prices. Every phone I have purchased thru swappa has been in excellent condition... except the ones advertised as "Mint condition" which arrived looking brand new. A half dozen family/friends have also purchased phones there due to my recommendation and they all have been very happy.

I purchased an used LG V60 about 6 months ago thru swappa for $185 and love it being an android guy. The V60 was about $1000 when it first came out. I went with the LG because it still has a headphone port which I REALLY appreciate (Samsung followed Apple and dropped headphone ports). 5G data speed is REALLY nice! I will never buy a new phone again and I will certainly never buy a new phone from a cellular company!

P.S. I also dumped Verizon and went to Mint (https://www.mintmobile.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pros&utm_content=rsa~Brand-Core-Exact&utm_term=mint%20mobile&gclid=Cj0KCQjwz7uRBhDRARIsAFqjulm2w9AOcmsJdQiOz6GK 4Lr6Pe67wPeDfJ2I-7-AEfVgJZBWbTPRbrUaApMsEALw_wcB) (buy a T-Mobile phone if you do). My cell bill went from $80/month for 2 phones with 2gb of data shared between my daughter and myself to $185 for 6 months of service with 10gb data each (20gb data a month total) for my daughter and I (I actually paid $120 for 6 months of service on 2 phones because they were running a sale... $185 for 6 months looks like the current going rate). That is over a 60% savings with much better service and 5G in my remote neck of the woods which Verizon isn't near to offering in my area. I kept my old Verizon phone number of course. We moved my daughters Note 9 from Verizon to Mint and it just took an extra call to Verizon to get the unlock code for her phone, which took all of 5 minutes. If there is no amount due on your Verizon phone they are required by law to give you the unlock code on request.

+1 on Mint, it seems like the best deal going for larger monthly allotments of data. One thing I did read about T mobile phones - be sure a new phone supports band 71. Band 71 supposedly helps a lot in areas with marginal coverage. I'm using an unlocked from the factory Nokia made by I think TCL. It's 4G not 5G but so far so good with coverage.

[Lee DeRaud]

Went through that particular kabuki dance last year with Consumer Cellular, which uses the T-Mobile network.

My 2016-model Samsung J3 would no longer be able to do voice calls because it did not support voice over LTE...texts and data would still be available. Bad timing, I guess: GF's one-year-newer J3 would still work, but of course she was the one who wanted a new phone anyway. :)

[Thomas L Carpenter]

ATT&T sent my entire family free phones to replace those we had that didn't comply with something or other. Granted they were flip phones but none of us are really big phone people. They spent a lot of time over the last year or so telling us our phones wouldn't work when 5g came out. We waited them out.

[Curt Harms]

The other thing I'd pay attention to is battery life. You don't want it to die on you in the middle of the day, and if you're like me, you might occasionally forget to plug it in at night. A large battery is very helpful, but you really need to pay attention to the battery life, because a more demanding phone will discharge even a large battery quickly.

Personally preference - If you want a bargain, stay away from Apple. We've been buying my wife bargain Android phones for a while, and can usually find her something decent in the $200 range, brand new.

I guess it depends on your usage. I turn data off when I'm home unless I have time sensitive email going on. Check email on the PC a few times a day. Turning data off helps with battery life quite a lot. An Apple phone for $429 isn't bad. I'm not a fan of walled gardens but Apple supports their phones longer than Android so cost/year may not be that much different from the mid range and better Android phones.

[Anuj Prateek]

Looks like I need a new phone by Dec. Verizon sent me a letter that my old cell phone will not be usable any more. They will not support 3G or 4G phones that do not support HD voice. Let me first say I have no idea what that means and even if you explain it I probably will not understand it. So it looks like I will have to finally get rid of my flip phone and step up to one of these flat screen phones. Thanks in advance.

OK with that said here is what I am asking. A few things I want is
not expensive
Ease of use( have big hands)
good camera
not too large
good quality
be able to view in daylight

Now things you think I should have and hould ask about.

Thanks




There are so many choices. You mentioned not expensive. Do you have a figure in mind? Most modern phones with large screens will fit your requirements.

2 options:

$450: Pixel 5a. Good camera, medium-large screen, bright, no nonsense interface, wireless charging etc.

$300-350: Samsung A42/52/53. Good phones. If you have not used smartphone before you won't miss anything.

I would suggest going with lower priced options. Eventually, you will use more features of the phone than you have listed and will know requirements better. Then in few years, if needed, upgrade to higher end phones.

My parents started with Samsung A series. They outgrew it in 2-3 years. Then they switched to Pixel 3a. This year I will move them to Pixel 6a. Personally, I moved from Pixel 3 to 6 this year 'cause it was too old w.r.t. updates for accessing company emails. Otherwise, I would have used it till it died. Point being, for normal usage, 2-3 years back, phones already had everything one would need.

[Larry Frank]

So much is determined by how you use the phone.

I wanted a phone with the best camera as one feature. I mentioned earlier that I had the Samsung S21 Ultra. The camera is really good and takes clear sharp pictures in all conditions. I take pics of birds on the back porch sitting in my recliner or close ups of things I am working on. The camera is much better than any other phone camera I have owned.

I read books on my phone, listen to audiobooks, listen to SiriusXM or many other things. While expensive, it really is worth it to me.

[Jim Becker]

Larry, you hit on something that's actually become important to me over the years...the camera capability. It was my main motivation for my most recent upgrade, honestly. I actually use the camera in my phone 'a lot'!!

[glenn bradley]

You can get a new flip phone that will still work with Verizon.

Brand? Model? Link?

[glenn bradley]

Larry, you hit on something that's actually become important to me over the years...the camera capability. It was my main motivation for my most recent upgrade, honestly. I actually use the camera in my phone 'a lot'!!

I fought to stay with a phone that was primarily a phone for a long time. Years ago so many "smart" phones weren't. Jim is also on target with staying with mainstream players not just major names. There are a lot of "smart phone shaped objects" out there. Samsung and Apple seem to be the most functional smart phones. Others excel if you do something special like gaming or make movies. I also agree that with a couple of DSLR cameras around I take shop photos with my iPhone as much as an actual camera.

I can only speak for the southern California area but Consumer Cellular (a front end to the AT&T network) has been completely trouble free since I moved to them 3 years ago. They also have a running stock of new and refurb'd older models at reduced prices. When I bought my iPhone 11 for $400 the iPhone 12 was the current model at about $1000. CC also offers a discount to AARP members that more than pays for the membership. This is really the only reason I belong to AARP. You may have local resellers that can offer the same or Consumer Cellular may operate in your area. Like cable companies, we all love/hate one or the other :D

[Lee DeRaud]

Larry, you hit on something that's actually become important to me over the years...the camera capability. It was my main motivation for my most recent upgrade, honestly. I actually use the camera in my phone 'a lot'!!I'm using mine more than I expected, but it's mostly transient stuff like shelf labels in stores. I know the old saying, "the best camera is the one you have with you right now", but it's still true that my worst "real" camera is still better than anything they've ever put into a phone.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have been retired for over 10 years. I normally resist change. When the gigantic corporation I worked for gave us smartphones without cameras I hated it. They wanted us to file paperwork before we left a customer site. I struggled viewing things on the small screen and typing in comments was an absolute pain. But once they came out with cameras, I began to embrace the smartphones because it allowed me to take photos to verify what I was seeing/experiencing on a customer site. It allowed me to photograph complex wiring for easy reinstallation before I removed the cable assembly to replace a unit.

The day we retired, my wife and I went to a local provider and bought our first smartphones. I still prefer using a computer as I am doing at this moment but when traveling I use my smart phone. When I am at home as I am now, I seldom turn my cell phone on except when the wife is out of town as she is now. I don't hand my cell number out to many people because I don't turn it on very often and I can't remember the password for voice mails on it. LOL! BTW, I am the guy who has a hardbound book in our home safe with all of our passwords written in it.

That being said our current cell phones only do 3G. We are on the list for new phones with 4G capability, but the current shipping delays are involved in their arrival. I refuse to pay in excess of $1000 for a new phone with 5G capability. My wife wants to stay with the local carrier as she can get her questions answered by someone other than me. I usually can answer my questions and have answered hers when she came to me with them.:rolleyes:

[Larry Frank]

I would disagree with the thought that the worst "real" camera is better than any phone camera. The cameras on the new Samsung and iPhones are very good and better than most real cameras in many situations. I still use my DSLR for somethings especially telephoto.

I carry my smartphone everywhere except the shower and bed. My wife requires that I have it when out in the yard or shop in case of emergency.

[Jim Becker]

I'm using mine more than I expected, but it's mostly transient stuff like shelf labels in stores. I know the old saying, "the best camera is the one you have with you right now", but it's still true that my worst "real" camera is still better than anything they've ever put into a phone.

I have to say that I honestly have not pulled out my really nice DSLR for about two years now and the camera system in my iPhone 13 Pro Max is eye opening. Samsung's latest devices have also upped the camera ballgame, too, and Google's higher end Pixel devices are also surprising. Yes, in raw pixels, a lot of current DSLRs have an edge, especially for large format prints, but these higher end smartphones really do hold their own these days. There are people creating amazing video with them, including serious "films" that sometimes end up in theaters.

[Lee DeRaud]

I would disagree with the thought that the worst "real" camera is better than any phone camera. The cameras on the new Samsung and iPhones are very good and better than most real cameras in many situations. I still use my DSLR for somethings especially telephoto.

I carry my smartphone everywhere except the shower and bed. My wife requires that I have it when out in the yard or shop in case of emergency.
I didn't say "the worst real camera", I said "my worst real camera". YMMV. :)

[Larry Frank]

Now I am curious. Lee, what is YOUR worst real camera? Have you used any of the new cell phone cameras such as Samsung or iPhone to compare?

[Brian Elfert]

Brand? Model? Link?

https://www.verizon.com/basic-phones/ There are nine flip phones listed there.

Also, https://www.amazon.com/Alcatel-FLIP-4051S-Verizon-LTE/dp/B0841S1XYH

[Lee DeRaud]

Now I am curious. Lee, what is YOUR worst real camera? Have you used any of the new cell phone cameras such as Samsung or iPhone to compare?
Worst camera is a Canon SX40, best is a Panasonic FZ1000. I have a 2021 Samsung, but it's one of the cheaper (if not cheapest) models. I haven't used a shiny new Apple/Samsung, but I have helped friends post-process pictures off a 2yo iPhone and a 1yo Pixel. They were better than I expected, but I was not overwhelmed by the picture quality: both were noisier than what I'm used to from the Canon and not even close to what I get out of the Panasonic. (And yes, pretty much any DSLR is better than the Panasonic, I'm just too old to be hauling that much glass around on a regular basis.)

Everyone gets hung up on pixel count, but the size of the sensor and the quality of the lens are way more important. And even if/when the phone gets to what I'd consider "real-camera" picture quality, the ergonomics will still suck.

[Anuj Prateek]

Everyone gets hung up on pixel count, but the size of the sensor and the quality of the lens are way more important. And even if/when the phone gets to what I'd consider "real-camera" picture quality, the ergonomics will still suck.

Very true and not widely understood by people. Increasing pixel count trend is common in DSLR as well. If anything it makes processing difficult without upgrades to computer. There is a place for high pixel count but i don't think it's required by most.

Said that modern smartphone cameras are pretty good for normal snapshots. On trips I use a DSLR but phone has replaced need of any other smaller digital camera. If photos have to be seen on phone itself or social media, then phone cameras do a very decent job.

[Dwayne Watt]

Maybe this was hit upon earlier, but a phone camera becomes so very useful for "notes". Pictures of things to serve as a reminder or to convey information to someone else. The idiom of "a picture is worth a thousand words" is ever so true and perhaps even more so as people age. There are many very useful tools that go with a smartphone and everyone figures out ways to increase its value to them (maps, Gas Buddy, weather apps, music, video, etc).

Also, while the trac-phone and consumer cellular work well in many cases there are limitations. I have seen first hand where the same model phone (one Verizon and one Trac-Phone) do not perform identically from the same location. The Verizon phone gets tower preference (more bars and faster service) over the Trac-Phone. That can become an issue when traveling outside your home area. The discount systems are not necessarily as reliable.

[Jerome Stanek]

Here I tried a phone that was on the AT&T network and I had to go out to the middle of my yard to get a signal Verizon I get a signal anywhere in my house. Back in 95 I was doing a job that had a 12000 pair monument in the middle of the Revco drug store I was building and AT&T was using Verizon cell phones

[Jim Becker]

I agree that from a camera perspective, the actual sensor and optical system get pretty important relative to image quality. Fortunately, both have also seen great improvements in these portable devices, at least at the higher end.

[Lee DeRaud]

Maybe this was hit upon earlier, but a phone camera becomes so very useful for "notes". Pictures of things to serve as a reminder or to convey information to someone else. The idiom of "a picture is worth a thousand words" is ever so true and perhaps even more so as people age.
Yup, "pictures" vs "photographs", the former being things that are intended to be viewed primarily on a phone, whether the one that captured it or someone else's.

[Lee DeRaud]

I agree that from a camera perspective, the actual sensor and optical system get pretty important relative to image quality. Fortunately, both have also seen great improvements in these portable devices, at least at the higher end.
Size matters. :) There's a decent (slightly outdated) sensor size chart here: http://photoseek.com/2013/compare-digital-camera-sensor-sizes-full-frame-35mm-aps-c-micro-four-thirds-1-inch-type/
There's only one phone on the list (Nokia Lumia 1020, which I've never heard of) with a larger sensor than typical "small" cameras. The top-line Samsung is slightly smaller. The problem is that as the sensor size grows, so does the lens (in both directions), unless some rather serious functional compromises are made. And the top-end phones are already straining the definition of "portable" for anyone not carrying a purse.

[Curt Harms]

Very true and not widely understood by people. Increasing pixel count trend is common in DSLR as well. If anything it makes processing difficult without upgrades to computer. There is a place for high pixel count but i don't think it's required by most.

Said that modern smartphone cameras are pretty good for normal snapshots. On trips I use a DSLR but phone has replaced need of any other smaller digital camera. If photos have to be seen on phone itself or social media, then phone cameras do a very decent job.

I agree with you about high pixel count but it's a great sales tool. It's easy to quantify pixel count - "Mine's bigger than theirs" - it's harder if not impossible to assign a single simple number to optics, image sensor, that sort of thing. The segment of the camera market that cell phones have virtually taken over is the simple point 'n' shoot. Most phones fill that niche nicely. I have a Nokia midrange phone with Carl Zeiss camera. It takes very good pictures and is especially good at close-ups.

[Michael Schuch]

I didn't say "the worst real camera", I said "my worst real camera". YMMV. :)


Worst camera is a Canon SX40, best is a Panasonic FZ1000. I have a 2021 Samsung, but it's one of the cheaper (if not cheapest) models. I haven't used a shiny new Apple/Samsung, but I have helped friends post-process pictures off a 2yo iPhone and a 1yo Pixel. They were better than I expected, but I was not overwhelmed by the picture quality: both were noisier than what I'm used to from the Canon and not even close to what I get out of the Panasonic. (And yes, pretty much any DSLR is better than the Panasonic, I'm just too old to be hauling that much glass around on a regular basis.)

Everyone gets hung up on pixel count, but the size of the sensor and the quality of the lens are way more important. And even if/when the phone gets to what I'd consider "real-camera" picture quality, the ergonomics will still suck.

I completely agree with you!!!! My 12 year old 24mp Sony A77 dslr WAY out classes my friends 108mp (LOL!) Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra! "If you are into photography" a tiny .65" S22 camera sensor will never come close to a Full Frame or APS sensor for quality results! I never even look at the camera stats on cell phones myself. If I want to capture a photo I will always use a real camera. For quick snap shots though, a cell phone camera has a huge advantage in connivence.

BUT for 95% of the people out there a good camera on a cell phone is all they will ever need.

My worst camera is a Sony A77, my best is a Sony A7RIV. ...a tiny LED bulb on a phone is NOT a flash! ;)

[Brian Elfert]

I doubt the average person could tell difference between most cell phone photos and a photo taken by a really good camera unless you are creating a high resolution ad for the side of a bus shelter or something.

[Jim Becker]

True, most folks wouldn't notice.

One of the things that's come to be in the cameras on the higher end phones is Camera RAW, however, which for anyone who likes to manipulate images repeatedly and non-destructively is a wonderful thing. Yea, the sensors are still smaller, but being able to take really decent shots and then tweak them in ways that's really not possible or at least easy with JPGs, etc., is very kewel.

[Michael Schuch]

I doubt the average person could tell difference between most cell phone photos and a photo taken by a really good camera unless you are creating a high resolution ad for the side of a bus shelter or something.

Pictures viewed on a cell phone, you are right they wouldn't be able to tell and I probably wouldn't be able to tell either. If the photo is printed or on a large screen... still probably not, depending on who took the picture. A photographer knows how to use a camera to compose a photograph as opposed to taking snap shots. I can assure you that high end DSLR's are JUST as capable as cell phones (if not more so) at taking lousy photos, the opposite isn't true though. With a DSLR you can use the aperture to a shallow depth of field and highlight a subject from the background. Yes, I know you can now do this in software on many phones which is fine if it is viewed on a phone but not if it is printed or on a large screen. I can also fire multiple off camera flashes with my DSLR which really starts to separate portraits from snap shots of people. Properly lighting a subject is not something most people will spend the time learning how to do whether they are using a cell phone or expensive camera. Not being able to fire a real flash from a cell phone is a major hinderance and a complete road block for creating a portrait. Being able to change lenses to capture a perfect rendering of a particular scene is also something that a cell phone isn't capable of. I have never found a cell phone any where near as responsive as a DSLR in which you can wait for the exact right instant and get the exact image you are looking for. Being able to flip the screen of a DSLR up to get a ground level view in the photo without actually having to lie on your belly is another DSLR feature I frequently exploit.

Like I said, for 95%+ of the people there is no difference between a cell phone camera and a high end DSLR. OK, I will go so far as saying 99% of the people.

[Lee DeRaud]

One of the things that's come to be in the cameras on the higher end phones is Camera RAW, however, which for anyone who likes to manipulate images repeatedly and non-destructively is a wonderful thing. Yea, the sensors are still smaller, but being able to take really decent shots and then tweak them in ways that's really not possible or at least easy with JPGs, etc., is very kewel.
Then again, about 99.9% of the people who know about RAW and the wonderful things you can do with it are already on "Team Camera". :)

[Jim Becker]

Then again, about 99.9% of the people who know about RAW and the wonderful things you can do with it are already on "Team Camera". :)

True dat! But there are a lot more that don't know the term that still love the extra image manipulation they can do on their mobile devices. It's a good thing for sure. (not that everyone edits "tastefully'...which is subjective for sure)

[mike stenson]

The best camera in the world, is the one you have in your hand.

Ask any photojournalist ;)

With that said, it's actually generally easier to take pictures with my iPhone than my D850. The sensor on that thing is so big, it's a lot like shooting medium format in terms of it's inability to suffer any kind of camera shake.

[Jim Becker]

I feel the same way about my D750, Mike...and I have a whole lot less available pixels. :) Incredible tools. But since we sold the horses, I don't use it much with the phone being so easy and good for my purposes.

[Lee DeRaud]

With that said, it's actually generally easier to take pictures with my iPhone than my D850. The sensor on that thing is so big, it's a lot like shooting medium format in terms of it's inability to suffer any kind of camera shake.
Eh? I would have thought the image stabilization on that beast was WAY better than anything they can fit into a phone.
And at least you've got something solid to hang onto while you're hitting the shutter release.

[mike stenson]

Eh? I would have thought the image stabilization on that beast was WAY better than anything they can fit into a phone.
And at least you've got something solid to hang onto while you're hitting the shutter release.

no in body stabilization. it's all in the lens.

[Michael Schuch]

no in body stabilization. it's all in the lens.


Eh? I would have thought the image stabilization on that beast was WAY better than anything they can fit into a phone.
And at least you've got something solid to hang onto while you're hitting the shutter release.

I have very good luck shooting hand held with my Sony without getting motion blur for wide angle and normal lenses. Short telephoto is usually quite good too with a bright subject and fast shutter speed. For long telephoto shots I have to brace myself against something or use a tripod... but the cell phones I am familiar with don't have "real" long telephoto.

My Sony has in body image stabilization as well as some stabilized lenses that work together. I see some phones are being advertised as having active image stabilization. Usually the smaller the sensor is the more effective active image stabilization will be because the sensor is lighter and moves quicker due to less mass. Also the smaller the sensor the less the sensor has to be moved for an equivalent level of stabilizations which is why Micro 4/3rds cameras usually perform better than FF.

[mike stenson]

I have very good luck shooting hand held with my Sony without getting motion blur for wide angle and normal lenses. Short telephoto is usually pretty good too with a bright subject and fast shutter speed. For long telephoto shots I have to brace myself against something or use a tripod... but the cell phones I am familiar with don't have "real" long telephoto.

My Sony has in body image stabilization as well as some stabilized lenses that work together. I see some phones are being advertised as having active image stabilization. Usually the smaller the sensor is the more effective active image stabilization will be because the sensor is lighter and moves quicker due to less mass. Also the smaller the sensor the less the sensor has to be moved for an equivalent level of stabilizations which is why Micro 4/3rds cameras usually perform better than FF.

That's a mirrorless, no?

Nikons mirrorless also has in body. dSLRs are all in lens. I haven't moved to mirrorless.

[Michael Schuch]

That's a mirrorless, no?

Nikons mirrorless also has in body. dSLRs are all in lens. I haven't moved to mirrorless.

I had a 10 year old APS Sony A77 dslr(dslt) 24mp that did have in body stabilization and it was quite effective. I believe Minolta/Sony were the only ones to offer DSLR's with in body image stabilization (probably a pattent thing). My A77 was stolen last year and my home owners insurance paid "replacement value" which was enough to allow me to buy a mirrorless Sony A7RIV (61mp). The A7RIV is a GREAT camera BUT in a lot of ways I REALLY miss my old A77. Just having 10 years of familiarity with my A77 is going to take a long time to replace as getting to know the nuances of the A7RIV is quite an uphill battle. If my A77 was not stolen I would still be perfectly happy shooting with it. Since I had the opportunity to buy all new gear buying a mirrorless camera made a lot more sense to me than buying a DSLR. If I were you I wouldn't be too eager to upgrade to mirrorless. After all the hype the actual results from upgrading aren't that near the "huge leap" as they would like you to believe it is.

When I bought my Sony A7RIV is was with the intention that I would get a minimum of a decades use out of it. Having used it for a year now I am very comfortable that at least a decade won't be a problem. (I probably could have squeezed a second decade out of my old A77 though).

[mike stenson]

AHHh ok. That make sense. Not a lot of in body stabilization in dSLRs, but then again the IS in lens is generally pretty good for Nikon and Canon. I just don't have ALL IS lenses, so I use a monopod or lug a tripod. (or crank up the iso, which is actually less of an issue the low light handling on the 850 is amazing)

I'm not sure it's an upgrade. Besides I have glass that is old enough to be factory AI converted, and some non-factory AI-d too... the 850 supports that, moving to mirrorless would require either all new glass, or dealing with convertors.

[Michael Schuch]

AHHh ok. That make sense. Not a lot of in body stabilization in dSLRs, but then again the IS in lens is generally pretty good for Nikon and Canon. I just don't have ALL IS lenses, so I use a monopod or lug a tripod. (or crank up the iso, which is actually less of an issue the low light handling on the 850 is amazing)

I'm not sure it's an upgrade. Besides I have glass that is old enough to be factory AI converted, and some non-factory AI-d too... the 850 supports that, moving to mirrorless would require either all new glass, or dealing with convertors.

I have Minolta A-Mount (dslr) lenses going back to a couple my father purchased in 1983. I do use them with an adapter on my A7RIV and they do work well without really being a hassle to use the adapter. My A77 was also A-mount (I have been with Minotla A-mount for a VERY long time. Sony bought out Minoltas camera division and used the same mount). None of my A-mount lenses have stabilization and I do not believe any were ever made because of the IBIS (In Body Image Stabilization). I am guessing there was no real way to sync lens stabilization and IBIS in the legacy A-Mount.

There is a LOT of hype but I don't believe it is an upgrade either. Cameras will last a LOT longer if you just use them for taking photos and don't read all the press/internet hype. They are very good at making you believe that you are really missing out on something HUGE when you really aren't.

[Curt Harms]

Not exactly in my experience. What changed is that AT&T pulled the plug on their 3G network, at least in my area. 4G still works. SWMBO and I both have phones that used 3G and 4G. I assumed because our phones were capable of 4G we'd be okay. Not so, no service as of 8 days ago. The fix was simply to get new SIMS.

I needed to get my phone working ASAP so switched carriers which is something I was considering anyway. Mint Mobile (uses T-mobile infrastructure) has some pretty attractive plans, just beware their coverage seems to be a little spotty especially in sparsely populated areas west of the Mississippi.

I have an amendment to the above. Some phones don't work with the new Airvoice SIM. We're going to have to replace a locked LG Stylo4, it won't connect with the new network. I gather that 4G LTE is required, apparently not all 4G phones support LTE. The better news (I guess) is it looks like 4G LTE should be around for the next decade.