Single phase to three phase newby

[Billy Stray]

After searching about a year and a half for a 20" planer with segmented infeed and finding myself in the middle of a massive price hike (new & used)
I lucked out and found a Delta 22-470 24" 7.5 hp
Brand new old stock still in the crate $3,400 plus shipping put it at just over $4,000. I thought I did ok until I researched how much it was going to cost to plug in the 3phase motor in my single phase shop.
Just shy of $1,000 for a vfd. No matter how many YouTube videos I watch I can't seem to completely wrap my brain around exactly what road I should take or why. Most videos are from home machinists trying to control speed etc. Never really suited to my situation, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Billy Strahan

[William Hodge]

Make a rotary phase converter.
Find a 10 hp or bigger 3 phase motor, bolt it down, supply it with two hot wires, and connect three wires from the motor to a three phase subpanel. run power to the planer.

Start the three phase motor spinning with a pony motor, then energize the three phase motor. The two hot legs energize the third. The subpanel will be hot.

Run the planer controls off one of the the two original legs, not the generated leg.

No need for a capacitor start.

Have an electrician hook it up, getting the wire size, breaker size, and power distribution right will result in no fires.

[Richard Coers]

Plenty of plans on the internet to make your own rotary phase converter if you don't want to buy one.

[Billy Stray]

I noticed niether one of you flinched at the $1,000 vfd price tag. So that's a normal price ?

[Carl Beckett]

There are a handful of rotary phase convertors for sale on CL in New England ranging from $400 to $800

[Mark e Kessler]

I am not going suggest Phase Perfect even though thats the route i would go but apparently it’s a bit exotic for some on SMC. I wouldn’t bother building a rotary phase just buy one, i would go with American rotary and get one to run 10hp min (which is a 20hp) once you have 3p you will find other machines at low cost to add. You might be able to find one used as well but the American rotary is a solid choice, i have heard Kay’s wild leg is all over the place in voltage.

You can do a vfd but it would only be used for that one machine, so spend a little extra an do the rotary. If you do vfd contact Jack Forsberg, he will select and configure one for you which could eliminate some frustration with setting up a VFD. You can find him on IG or just google.

[Michael Schuch]

I noticed niether one of you flinched at the $1,000 vfd price tag. So that's a normal price ?

That is the standard price for a top end VFD with a US name plate.

A Chinese VFD can be had for much cheaper! This is the one I am using for my RedStar 7.5hp radial arm saw and it has been working fine for several years.
https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Variable-Frequency-Controller-Converter/dp/B08KDDBV51/ref=sr_1_17?keywords=7.5hp+vfd&qid=1646952535&sprefix=7.5hp+%2Caps%2C266&sr=8-17

I do have Fujitsu, Teco and Allen Bradley VFD's for some of my machinery but those are machines that I want the advanced features like speed control, jog, breaking and multiple inputs. In actual function of just driving a 3ph motor on single phase at a set RPM I have found no difference between the expensive VFD's and cheap Chinese VFD's.

I also have a 10hp rotary phase convertor that I built 30 years ago. It is nice because I can bring home a new (used) three phase machine, plug it into the RPC and be off and running immediately, no rewiring required. The advantage of the VFD's is I can plug the machines with VFD's on them into any 220v outlet anywhere in the shop.

[Bill Dufour]

Do you rally need 7.5 Hp? A 5Hp vfd would run the motor fine but only to a max of 5hp. The other choices can not do that. They have to be able to supply full motor hp or will not work.
A generic Huan Yang VFD should work well enough since you do not need any special features except reverse lockout and slow acceleration curve.
Bill D.

[Mike Kees]

Billy, as you can see here there are several ways to skin this particular cat. I went with a Rotary phase converter and 3 phase panel. I did this because I fully intended to buy 6-7 3 phase machines, I now have five machines that are powered through it. I would suggest this route if you plan to do the same. If this planer will be your only 3 phase machine a VFD would do the trick. As horsepower goes up so does the price of VFD's required to power said horsepower. You would also need a VFD for each machine. My rotary is just easier to add machines to, although it is not free. I have found that it costs me about $500 to wire in every new machine added, most of this cost (at least 50%) is three phase breakers which are not cheap. Pick your poison.

[Mark e Kessler]

You only need to run one set of wires for the max amps of the converter and one breaker, tap to a twist lock for each machine. My PP will allow 36amps so i ran 8g thnn in conduit down two walls. For one i did a twist lock wall outlet, where it drops down from the ceiling i have a box with the wire looped in it so i can extend it at a later date if needed. Same on the other wall except i have SOO with a twist lock.

[Billy Stray]

Thanks a lot for all your help. I couldn't have asked for a better thread of opinions/advice.
Although I do plan on a bigger shaper & a small wide belt in my future, for now I'm going to go the cheap Chinese vfd route. It'll get the 3phase ball rolling. Even though i dont have a day job, in my household you don't make a $4,000 purchase and then another 1,000 - 1,500 a couple weeks later. It's pretty much frowned apon lol. Anyhow I'm back to being excited about a new machine, thanks again
Billy Strahan

[Kevin Jenness]

You might want to look at this lengthy recent thread https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?296460-Phase-convertors

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a hitachi WJ200 drive on two machines, great drive. Easily programmed.

[Rod Sheridan]

I noticed niether one of you flinched at the $1,000 vfd price tag. So that's a normal price ?

Yes, for a single phase input of that output power.

A typical single phase input for a 3 HP output is somewhere around $200…….regards, Rod

[Billy Stray]

Easily programmed ; your speaking my language
Do they make a 10hp version?

[Jared Sankovich]

Fuji has a 7.5hp (27A)vfd that is $650

FRN0060C2S-2U

[Brian Holcombe]

Easily programmed ; your speaking my language
Do they make a 10hp version?

I believe so, a quick look over at Wolf Automation showed one iirc.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Billy,

Haven’t read every response so apologies if this was already mentioned...experiencing some 3 phase fatigue lately from the other mega-thread that seems to go around in circles :D

You need to find out if that planer has a separate motor for either the feed rollers and/or the bed raise and lower if that is automated / controlled by a motor and not totally manual. Using a VFD you can only hook one to a single motor at a time and only control functions (start, stop, speed, braking, etc) for one motor.

If there is a separate motor for the feed works then you’ll need to buy a second, smaller VFD sized to that motor and wire it in as well for those controls. Using a VFD also typically bypass all machine switches and controls and you control all function from the VFD itself or a wired remote control that is connected to the VFD. This may or may not be a thing for you. By the time you do a 7.5-10 VFD + a potential 2 hp drive for the feed motor you are in the range of a nice used RPC, especially if you are thinking of adding shapers, wide belt. Most wide belts are 12-15 HP and up, FYI. If you’re serious about that path, I would advise you to find the largest RPC you can that will handle everything you plan to add in the future (wide belt would likely be the big daddy.)

The flip side, though, of going with multiple VFDs on planer is that you do get unlimited speed control of the feed rollers which can be very desirable at times. I wish I had that on my old SCM 20” that is a 2 speed machine. It does a great job, but there are certain situations where I wish I could slow it down more. That is a fairly expensive route, though and doesn’t leave you any more invested or prepared for future 3 phase machines.

The main reason I got a used a Rotary phase converter to begin with was to be able to handle a 20” 9HP industrial planer with separate motors. I have since added many 3 phase machines and have a 3 phase sub panel on the output side of the RPC with different 20 and 30 amp breakers / circuits and receptacles for each machine to make it safe and convenient to go from machine to machine without having to unplug each one a bunch.

I do have a 5 HP VFD from Jack Forsberg on my 12” Oliver jointer still and love it because a) i have it programmed to stop the cutterhead in about 7 seconds (as opposed to 5 minutes + it takes for the direct drive cutterhead to stop after turning it off) and b) I have HZ/speed control and sometime turn the speed up a bit (64-65 hz) in certain situations for a cleaner cut/more cuts per inch.

[Billy Stray]

Phillip,
Luckily it's a single motor situation, it's pretty much a Delta dc580, 4" wider with a bigger motor.
There's a lever on the side where you detention the feed roller belt to change from 20 - 30 ft per minute.
It doesn't have a mag switch, am I still gonna have to control it with the vfd for off and on ?

[Brian Holcombe]

I use push button controls with a VFD. The controls are momentary buttons. I added an E-stop also which stops the drill in a hurry and locks out the vfd for safety until it is cleared.

475654

[Jared Sankovich]

You can use the original push button controls on the machine to control the vfd.

[Kevin Jenness]

Phillip,
Luckily it's a single motor situation, it's pretty much a Delta dc580, 4" wider with a bigger motor.
There's a lever on the side where you detention the feed roller belt to change from 20 - 30 ft per minute.
It doesn't have a mag switch, am I still gonna have to control it with the vfd for off and on ?

Yes. The vfd can use the original push buttons or another remote control station but you can't have a switch between the vfd and motor.

[Alex Zeller]

If you don't mind taking a drive I would think this would be a better option than a VFD. It would make buying other 3 phase machines easier since you could just unplug one tool and then plug the other in.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2190089724487117/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Aa5741a6a-08d2-40c6-add6-c5d9ca001aea

[Mark e Kessler]

I think that has been for sale a long time, I remember seeing one for sale at least a year ago that was a ronk and had something to do with creemees.


If you don't mind taking a drive I would think this would be a better option than a VFD. It would make buying other 3 phase machines easier since you could just unplug one tool and then plug the other in.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2190089724487117/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Aa5741a6a-08d2-40c6-add6-c5d9ca001aea