Fritz und Franz get divorced

[mark mcfarlane]

It's time to build my gen2 Fritz/Franz jig, something that can handle wider boards, at least 24"...

After building and using a F&F setup for 4 years I am wondering why I ever built the outfeed side of the setup.

I keep the slider's (cu300) crosscut fence with multiple flip-down stops semi-permanently mounted at the outfeed side of my slider. The cross cut fence has been removed twice in 5 years. Remounting and re-aligning it is such a hassle I think it is permanent now.

So, why not just use the slider's crosscut fence as one end of Fritz/Franz?

Am I missing something?

I'm thinking the only thing I'll miss is a perfect knowledge of where the blade cut starts (zero reference), which F/F gives you. This can be remedied by just making a slightly-too-long crosscut fence 'plug' made of wood and then running it through the saw.

[Jim Becker]

If you can be absolutely sure that the scale is identical to what you use on the handle-side of the jig, it will work fine. You would think that the scales would be identical, but in practice...sometimes they are not depending on the materials used, etc. Also, the flip stop on the outrigger fence may be less appropriate when you are working with really thin material or short material...so my suggestion would be to build both sides of the F&F v2 so you can accommodate all situations. When using the stop on the outrigger is comfortable (again, if the scale matches perfectly), do that. When doing finer work, use the "whole" F&F v2 for the job.

[Kevin Jenness]

My Fritz and Franz have sandpaper faces to grip small sections, which the crosscut fence lacks. I do have a wood plug in the end of the crosscut fence for a zero reference though. When I want the stops to match I butt them together rather than relying on the scales- I recall misreading a scale once. Or twice.

[Warren Lake]

what about their cousins hans and franz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa5mj6ifCz4

[Dan Friedrichs]

I have both Fritz and Franz because the clamps that hold the crosscut fence to the sliding table are usually behind (aft) of the fence. If I flipped it to put the clamps in front of the fence, I imagine you wouldn't *need* "Fritz", but it gives the advantage of a rubber/sandpaper grip strip, lower height (easier control of small pieces), etc.

[Lisa Starr]

I also keep my crosscut fence on most of the time and do use it as one half of Fritz and Franz, depending on what I'm doing. Sometimes, though, I need to hold something that requires the stop closer to the blade than what the crosscut fence will allow. Then the 2nd half of Fritz and Franz comes out. As with most things woodworking, I think it mostly depends on what types of work you do with your equipment.

[mark mcfarlane]

Thanks guys, 5 issues identified so far

1) Exactly matching scales
2) Sandpaper grabbiness
3) thin cuts
4) zero reference
5) crosscut clamps in the way

1) Exactly matching scales: Although I put scales on my both of original fritz and Franz jigs, I typically use either a Starrett square or a Woodpecker rule with stop to transfer the measurement to one device because my shop-made stops can rotate just a tad.

2) sandpaper grabbiness: probably most important on thinner rips

3) thin cuts: Could use a known reference block, e.g. 2" wide block on the crosscut fence and just subtract 2 inches.

4) zero reference: Build a crosscut-fence-end of wood.

[Carl Beckett]

Sometimes I use my Fritz (or is it Frantz) up against the crosscut fence.

Sometimes I dont, and use both F&F

I dont over think it, whatever bug I have in the moment.

[Derek Cohen]

It's time to build my gen2 Fritz/Franz jig, something that can handle wider boards, at least 24"...

After building and using a F&F setup for 4 years I am wondering why I ever built the outfeed side of the setup.

I keep the slider's (cu300) crosscut fence with multiple flip-down stops semi-permanently mounted at the outfeed side of my slider. The cross cut fence has been removed twice in 5 years. Remounting and re-aligning it is such a hassle I think it is permanent now.

So, why not just use the slider's crosscut fence as one end of Fritz/Franz?

Am I missing something?

I'm thinking the only thing I'll miss is a perfect knowledge of where the blade cut starts (zero reference), which F/F gives you. This can be remedied by just making a slightly-too-long crosscut fence 'plug' made of wood and then running it through the saw.

Mark, my F&F jig evolved this was because my K3 has the shorter wagon, and this requires that the crosscut fence is at the near end.

Everything now had to work in reverse. That is, the far end of the F&F needed to clamp the work piece against the CC fence, and also not budge. This is what I came up with - the stop locks into the channel ...

https://i.postimg.cc/63744YgK/FF4a.jpg

Evolving further ...

https://i.postimg.cc/5tv9KsJq/FF2a.jpg

The next level in evolution was to make a parallel guide (I have posted this several times) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/ParallelGuideForK3Slider_html_1fdf2a4a.jpg

The only down side to the PG is that it must be secured to the wagon when used. This takes about 1 minute to set up, after which it makes repeatable and precise cuts.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rod Sheridan]

I do that often, however it’s more convenient for small pieces for me to use the F&F at the operator end of the sliding table as I have a small shop…..Regards, Rod

[Chris Parks]

I had just acquired my K3 Winner with no outrigger when the F&F first came to light in this forum so I bought the few bits and pieces needed and put the CC fence on the leading end of the table so I could use the F&F in the normal manner. I did it that way because at the time I was still unsure where I preferred the CC fence and it gave me the flexibility to change where it was on the sliding table in a few minutes if needed. I have two F&F jigs, one is two plain pieces of MDF faced with sand paper and one has Incra track and flip stops which I built many years ago and I have never used it preferring to use the rip fence to measure & reference from. A search of the forum around 2014 will show a F&F jig using the Incra components.