Felder mini-wide belt sander FW 850 classic [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Erik Loza

03-07-2022, 7:22 PM

We got the ballpark price in the sales meeting this morning. Won't share on the open forum but I can state that it is both attractive and competitive. This machine is still a true widebelt, not a drum sander, so keep that in mind when you are calling your Felder rep but based on how popular the Sandya Win was, I definitely see a market for folks who either can't swing a 37" WB or just don't need a machine that runs a full shift a day. Also, I was surprised to learn that it apparently has a combination head with an electro-pneumatic platen, which is a feature you don't even get on some of the $30K+ industrial widebelts. Still waiting on actual tech data from Austria.

Erik

Paul J Kelly

03-07-2022, 7:29 PM

As soon as I saw this thread this morning I called my salesman.

I like this line on the web:

The FELDER FW 850 classic wide belt sander makes it affordable to take that next step into professional woodworking and it is this high quality standard configuration that particularly impresses.

I hope we can find out soon more details because this is the perfect size to replace my dual drum sander.

PK

Mark e Kessler

03-07-2022, 7:47 PM

As soon as I saw the inflatable platen I was thinking maybe I should cancel the Sandya win that i put a deposit on. I have read that inflatable platens can be troublesome but thinking that was on older machines but if executed well they can have the finesse to sand pressed commercial veneer panels where a hard platen is iffy. Although nothing comes close to a segmented for veneer.

Does it have a steel or rubber contact roller?
One other thing, can we assume the 850 means it is 33.5 sanding width? Thats a nice size but guessing that means ordering none standard width belts (i think?) most are made to order anyways for length but wonder if that width is going to limit brand choice or do you know if all makers will do custom widths?

It looks like a lighter build than the year 2000 Sandy win I would want to see one in person and run it, any idea when one will be in a showroom? Bet the lead time will be a killer though… my price prediction is under 10k , 8500-&9500

We got the ballpark price in the sales meeting this morning. Won't share on the open forum but I can state that it is both attractive and competitive. This machine is still a true widebelt, not a drum sander, so keep that in mind when you are calling your Felder rep but based on how popular the Sandya Win was, I definitely see a market for folks who either can't swing a 37" WB or just don't need a machine that runs a full shift a day. Also, I was surprised to learn that it apparently has a combination head with an electro-pneumatic platen, which is a feature you don't even get on some of the $30K+ industrial widebelts. Still waiting on actual tech data from Austria.

Erik

Albert Lee

03-08-2022, 2:04 AM

Pretty cool that Felder is making smaller units.

FW 850 Classic (https://www.felder-group.com/en-kr/products/wide-belt-sanders-c1955/wide-belt-sander-fw-850-classic-p1285718)

1 meter squared of space, 7.5HP. Almost no other details that I could see? I don't even see the width of the belt?

475354

SCM already makes mini sander DMC SD10. takes 1.3m2, belt width 950mm.

Looking at the height of the unit, SCM being close to 1.7m high, SCM's belt MAYBE be longer than Felder, on SCM its 1525mm long, SCM's unit come with platen as well.

here is a link to SCM's sander with pricing. Knowing SCM in NZ I know I can probably get it under $20k NZD + tax. which is about $14k USD.

https://jmjwood.co.uk/products/scm-dmc-sd-10-sander

Mark e Kessler

03-08-2022, 6:55 AM

Hi Albert, I don’t think that 850 comes even close to the build of the DMC, I wouldn’t put the 850 in a professional shop but the DMC i would without hesitation. They should have branded it a Hammer as it’s obviously value engineered it with things like the Chinese $90 DRO from Alibaba.. that said i think it will be a winner like the Hammer edge sander for hobbyists

SCM already makes mini sander DMC SD10. takes 1.3m2, belt width 950mm.

Looking at the height of the unit, SCM being close to 1.7m high, SCM's belt MAYBE be longer than Felder, on SCM its 1525mm long, SCM's unit come with platen as well.

here is a link to SCM's sander with pricing. Knowing SCM in NZ I know I can probably get it under $20k NZD + tax. which is about $14k USD.

https://jmjwood.co.uk/products/scm-dmc-sd-10-sander

Robert London

03-08-2022, 9:59 AM

Looks like a nice machine for the hobbyist or part timer. Pricing will be key. 33" belt is a bit weird. Seems like they could have stretched the width to get it to that 36" mark. But 33" is more than enough with for most.

I have a 25 x 2 supermax drum sander now. A smaller footprint 36" widebelt would be ideal for me one day.

Paul J Kelly

03-08-2022, 10:15 AM

The SCM hovers around $21k in the US and is 18hp. I think it is a different beast! Much larger too.

PK

Mark e Kessler

03-08-2022, 2:27 PM

I believe my price estimate of 8500-9500 is WAY off….

Albert Lee

03-08-2022, 3:38 PM

I believe my price estimate of 8500-9500 is WAY off….

I have seen a Felder FW 1100 series sander in the last 2-3 years.

not too impressed, with the money they are asking I think I deserve better machine.... so decided to keep my 20 yo SCM WBS

Albert Lee

03-08-2022, 3:46 PM

The SCM hovers around $21k in the US and is 18hp. I think it is a different beast! Much larger too.

PK

yes... it seems to be larger in all aspects. probably built for industrial use. not hobbyist

Erik Loza

03-10-2022, 8:48 AM

The SCM hovers around $21k in the US..

I believe my price estimate of 8500-9500 is WAY off….

Split the difference and you're in the ballpark. To be clear, this is NOT a production machine like the bigger units. That should be obvious from the size and price point. Where I see the value is in the one-person shop who has a need that a drum sander can't satisfy, but who don't have the budget/workload/power/dust collection for a bigger unit. Of course it's not as 37" machine but it isn't trying to be. Back in the my Italian days, we sold a good number of Sandya Wins, which were a 25" machine. I still see a fair number of those in service in commercial shops. If all you're doing is sanding faceframes, cutting boards, etc. then this could be a great option. Not sure what the availability looks like at this point (we still can't quote/order one) but I know they are planning to show one at the IWF show in August.

Erik

Mark e Kessler

03-10-2022, 9:03 AM

I heard from a reliable source ~$16, way to much and unless that machine has an anti dubbing feature paid with the air bladder platen they will suffer from the same issues the bigger brothers have (unless they added antidub to them).

i just bought a 2000 sandya win 25” for $4250 delivery included and they installed a new conveyor belt, the part alone was 1k.

derek labian

03-11-2022, 8:55 AM

Split the difference and you're in the ballpark. To be clear, this is NOT a production machine like the bigger units. That should be obvious from the size and price point. Where I see the value is in the one-person shop who has a need that a drum sander can't satisfy, but who don't have the budget/workload/power/dust collection for a bigger unit. Of course it's not as 37" machine but it isn't trying to be. Back in the my Italian days, we sold a good number of Sandya Wins, which were a 25" machine. I still see a fair number of those in service in commercial shops. If all you're doing is sanding faceframes, cutting boards, etc. then this could be a great option. Not sure what the availability looks like at this point (we still can't quote/order one) but I know they are planning to show one at the IWF show in August.

Erik

Thank you for the additional details!

Erik Loza

03-11-2022, 9:53 AM

I was just wiping my company laptop before I send it back to Felder and out of curiosity, tried to see if I could quote one of these things and I actually could. So, it seems they are at least available to ORDER now. Again, still unsure about delivery time. Looking at the quote, what I can share is that this machine is WYSIWYG. No options, it is what it is. That being said, I still feel the price and value are in line with what you are getting. The nearest competitors would be the east Asian machines, which seem to have a spotty track record (at least in production environments). I guess my sales proposition for this unit would go something like, "Yes, you could go with one of those budget WB's but for a few $K more, look what you get".

Also, I don't have much info but the factory has apparently figured out a crating system that gives much more secure transport options for this particular unit. In the world of LTL delivery, WB's are one of the most damage-prone machines since that are tall and a little top-heavy. For example, any time I have to deliver one of these, it almost always has to go by dedicated truck, which shoots the cost way up. To my mind, there is additional value beyond just machine cost in guaranteeing that something like this can be delivered safely and without major rigging equipment.

Erik

Rick Fisher

03-12-2022, 12:29 AM

I have a Houfek 3, 950 or 37". Its in the class of the Sandya S1 In my opinion. That little Felder is a great idea. Lots of wide belts dont get used for more than an hour at a time. There is a big market for machines that are convenient, but not used for production

I had an older SCM Sandya Win 25" with a 12hp motor. I never had a shortage of power. My Houfek is 15hp and has never been short of power. There is no question that a production shop would want more power than I have but usually sand pieces, legs, aprons, and tops. much of the sanding is literally 3" - 4" wide.

I think Felder nailed it with that machine in that size. Its not for everyone, but lots of shops ( and hobby shops) will see it as a great addon. More than enough machine for most

Alan Lightstone

03-12-2022, 8:00 AM

If it had existed when I bought my Grizzly widebelt, I would have bought it instead. Seems pretty perfect for my environment. Plus hey, a color match for all my other Felder stuff. Not a production shop here. But the 33" instead of the 24" I have, would be extremely helpful to me.

derek labian

11-14-2022, 9:59 PM

I saw this unit in at IWF, and it is insanely small for what it is, not just in height, but in overall footprint. I'm not sure there's anything else like it on the market, but I've also not heard anyone say anything about it. I believe they are at $22k which is a comparable price to many larger 37" units including the SCM DMC SD 10, Laguna, Timesavers 1300's, etc. The main selling point really does seem to be the price, but I bet they would have a much easier time selling it if they lowered that price a bit.

Eric Arnsdorff

11-15-2022, 12:03 AM

Erik Loza if you could be my salesman how would I get you to give me a quote?
To be clear - I'm a hobbyist and while I may could cough up the money - I'm not sure my wife would allow me to sleep in the house again.

Jim Becker

11-15-2022, 9:07 AM

Paul J Kelly

11-15-2022, 11:31 PM

derek labian

11-16-2022, 10:06 AM

I was told it was less than that. The 950 is $25k. I believe it is more like $16k. My Felder salesman tells me the build quality is good but I have no experience with it to say. I did see it at IWF and the footprint was great for a small shop.

I guess we will see when someone picks one up!

PK

Thats what I had heard as well, but I was told a higher price at IWF (~$22k) and the floor model (at IWF) of the 950c was offered at $26.5k..

Mark e Kessler

11-16-2022, 10:01 PM

Don’t know why anyone would want this, looks lightweight for the price, for 5-10 k you can get a used SCM 25”- -37” built way better.

Here is the 37” I paid $8200 for delivered…

489949489950

Paul J Kelly

11-17-2022, 12:34 PM

Mark,

I agree 100%. I just need to find one in that kind of condition!

PK

Erik Loza

11-17-2022, 2:34 PM

IME, cherry Italian used widebelts are a pretty rare thing. Usually, your options are auction buys that are full of dust and require a LOT of spare parts to get running to factory spec again. It’s not really fair to compare new to used machinery prices. Sure, you might find a diamond once in a while but there’s an argument to be made fore being able to just write a check, have the thing get delivered on a liftgate truck, full warranty/factory support, etc. To each, their own.

Erik

Mark e Kessler

11-17-2022, 3:38 PM

Wasn’t really trying to compare price only to say for half the cost you can get a much better machine and build than this specific Felder, true the SCM 37” one is in excellent shape but I have come across a few and, the 25” sandya that I had ($4200) right before this (bought 1-2 months before then found the 37” when I was looking for a shaper) was definitely ridden hard but worked pretty much flawlessly. Both delivered by lift gate and 30 day warranty - laughable sure but so is “factory” support in most cases. Also I believe the SCM 37” is still made and retails for about 22k

My advice don’t buy a low end sander from a major manufacturer new when you can have an SCM at less than 1/2 the cost, these SCM’s have a long proven rock solid history…

pic of the 25”
489961

derek labian

11-17-2022, 6:35 PM

Mark,

The case for the 850 is that its a 37" in a small footprint. Its light enough to be put on a mobile stand and be rolled around. It's air flow requirements are light and it has a single dust port. It looks like you found some great options, but the 37" SCM is a monster compared to the 850. I think the 850 is a winner for mobile/small wide belt but not at $22k.

On a side note, what kind of work were you doing with the 25"?

Mark e Kessler

11-17-2022, 7:30 PM

Derek,
I see, that makes sense. I couldn’t find the dims on that unit on their website but the the SCM is about 55” wide, depth os pretty narrow like the 850 and about 5.5’ tall. The 850 appears to be a little more narrow but not by much, my belt is 37.5” wide and the table assembly is 40” for reference. It requires very little air as it is electric eye tracking and is a single port for dust. It probably is heavier but I do plan on putting it on a wheels.

I only build furniture with the occasional cabinet. I also resaw my own veneer when possible and was able to bring it down to 3/32” on the 25” and 37” could probably go thinner but 3/32” is good enough. The 25” was actually large enough and the benefit to that 25” was obviously the smaller size but it also had a steel head which can be better for hardwood (not as great for finishing passes, but you use platen only above 120 anyways) and it had a new feed belt on it (1k). I almost didn’t upgrade because I had tuned the 25” and it was working great + I wasn’t 100% that I could run it as my Phase converter a Phase Perfect os only rated for 10hp and the 37” is 18hp but after talking to PP I felt comfortable taking a chance and glad I did.

Here are some White Oak bath vanities I recently made, the sides are resawn veneer glued up in sheets, ran through sander then pressed on a panel and ran again. The drawer fronts are resawn on WO lumber core same process through the sander.
489967489968

Mark,

The case for the 850 is that its a 37" in a small footprint. Its light enough to be put on a mobile stand and be rolled around. It's air flow requirements are light and it has a single dust port. It looks like you found some great options, but the 37" SCM is a monster compared to the 850. I think the 850 is a winner for mobile/small wide belt but not at $22k.

On a side note, what kind of work were you doing with the 25"?

derek labian

11-17-2022, 7:52 PM

Derek,
I see, that makes sense. I couldn’t find the dims on that unit on their website but the the SCM is about 55” wide, depth os pretty narrow like the 850 and about 5.5’ tall. The 850 appears to be a little more narrow but not by much, my belt is 37.5” wide and the table assembly is 40” for reference. It requires very little air as it is electric eye tracking and is a single port for dust. It probably is heavier but I do plan on putting it on a wheels.

I only build furniture with the occasional cabinet. I also resaw my own veneer when possible and was able to bring it down to 3/32” on the 25” and 37” could probably go thinner but 3/32” is good enough. The 25” was actually large enough and the benefit to that 25” was obviously the smaller size but it also had a steel head which can be better for hardwood (not as great for finishing passes, but you use platen only above 120 anyways) and it had a new feed belt on it (1k). I almost didn’t upgrade because I had tuned the 25” and it was working great + I wasn’t 100% that I could run it as my Phase converter a Phase Perfect os only rated for 10hp and the 37” is 18hp but after talking to PP I felt comfortable taking a chance and glad I did.

Here are some White Oak bath vanities I recently made, the sides are resawn veneer glued up in sheets, ran through sander then pressed on a panel and ran again. The drawer fronts are resawn on WO lumber core same process through the sander.
489967489968

Ah it all fits together now. I recognize those vanities from Instagram, Kessler Woodworks, right? I followed the build; very nice. I'm also glad to hear the 25" worked well. I looked at the Felder 950C, and the SCM DM 10, both 37". The 850 looked like a toy next to them; it's really compact, and I'm not sure the specs do that justice.

Phillip Mitchell

11-18-2022, 8:04 AM

What are the electrical requirements on this Felder sander? I clicked on the link in OP and saw all marketing and no actual specs, but maybe I just don’t know how to navigate the site...Single phase or 3 phase? How many FLA?

Im not interested in this unit but it seems like if it was single phase and somehow 30 full load amps or below then they would be filling a hole in the market and solving one of the obstacles with wide belts (electrical requirements) for smaller / hobbyist shops, which seems to be Felder’s bread and butter demographic.

I have no room for a wide belt in current shop but have looked into enough to know that even with a 10 hp (starting capacity) phase converter (30 amps at 240v) that I would have trouble finding even a smaller industrial grade sander that could be powered with that setup, at least on paper