Shaper precision height adjustments

[Mike Kees]

I need a DRO on my shaper spindle or some other highly accurate way to set up height on cutters. Milling parts for doors with profiles that fit together that need to be flush when assembled is my main issue right now. I am looking at an I Gaging height gauge as a possibility right now ,anyone use this or something similar ? What other techniques am I missing here ? Feel free to educate me . Need repeatable accuracy, quick efficient set up and less "trial and error"involved in my process.

[Steve Jenkins]

I use a height gauge similar to the Igauging and it works fine

[Jared Sankovich]

dro(s) would be faster, but these 2 work on every machine, for every setup.
474658

[Mike Kees]

Jared where did you get that arm for the dial indicator ? I have a indicator with a magnetic base and a arm but that one looks much easier to use .

[brent stanley]

dro(s) would be faster, but these 2 work on every machine, for every setup.
474658

I have the same settup and it works very well, though I've not really needed it for shaper settup. I'd love to see a DRO settup for an old manual shaper, it could be very handy. I'm trying to decide between a big Panhans or Hoffman machine each with cnc fences and spindle height but I'm hoping to have manual override possible in case of a problem with electronics.

B

[brent stanley]

Jared where did you get that arm for the dial indicator ? I have a indicator with a magnetic base and a arm but that one looks much easier to use .

I think it's a clone/copy the same as mine. Mine is by "Anytime Tools". Very popular on Amazon and the arm works very well. The one knob tightens or loosens every joint in the unit. Very quick to settup. The fine tune tip is super handy. Mine came set up for using 3/8 posts so needed an adapter to use with my "last word", so worth verifying it's compatible with your indicator.

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[Jared Sankovich]

Jared where did you get that arm for the dial indicator ? I have a indicator with a magnetic base and a arm but that one looks much easier to use .

Its a import NOGA clone from shars. I'm sure there are lots of other places that have them

[brent stanley]

Its a import NOGA clone from shars. I'm sure there are lots of other places that have them

Everyone loves the noga these days and everyone seems to be copying it!

[Ray Newman]

Check the local Harbor Freight, one might be instock. Approx. US $13.00. Otherwise, website says available 3/14/'22:

https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-position-magnetic-base-with-fine-adjustment-63663.html

[Kevin Jenness]

I have an iGaging height gauge https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/61612-digital-height-gauge?item=88N9001&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmeKQBhDvARIsAHJ7mF5mW-EtfzNdsCwRaZ0_MRHIfswJJK2beXud-wRQLVhtwlee-XwjbcMaArBTEALw_wcB which is decent. The magnets are not as strong as a dial indicator base but they don't need to be on a shaper table. It does allow for accurate adjustments and is a bit more convenient than a dial indicator, but doesn't do any more either except switch between metric/digital inch/fractional inch. Sometimes getting the height gauge tip where you want it is easier.

[Jared Sankovich]

Check the local Harbor Freight, one might be instock. Approx. US $13.00. Otherwise, website says available 3/14/'22:

https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-position-magnetic-base-with-fine-adjustment-63663.html

Those are the standard stands, the noga style are worlds better.

[Mike Kees]

That Harbor fright thing is what I have now. This articulating arm deal looks a whole lot more useable, from the pictures anyway. Took my calipers from my reloading bench over to the shop and got the setup I needed today figured out. Will be investing in another one for the shop. Thanks for help today. Will have to spend some more money now.

[Greg Quenneville]

I like a digital (or dial) height gauge like this: https://www.amazon.com/Fowler-54-175-006-Z-Height-Electronic-Measurement/dp/B00APNG62S/ref=sr_1_21?crid=ABMRIBV534GU&keywords=digital+height+gauge&qid=1645825202&sprefix=Digital+height+gaug%2Caps%2C358&sr=8-21

I have an iGaging snap gauge which has a slightly flexible plastic body. It seems accurate but not precise, as you can easily get 0.004” of flex, which makes it pretty useless.

[Lee Schierer]

Wixey makes a nice height gauge.

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[Jared Sankovich]

That Harbor fright thing is what I have now. This articulating arm deal looks a whole lot more useable, from the pictures anyway. Took my calipers from my reloading bench over to the shop and got the setup I needed today figured out. Will be investing in another one for the shop. Thanks for help today. Will have to spend some more money now.

Just search YouTube for noga indicator stand and you will see how great they are. The actual noga stands are (or were) under $100. I think I paid $35 for the clone with a indicator included.

I'd like to have DROs on everything but the wood specific units are laughable for the price compared to the mill/lathe 2 axis units.

[Brian Holcombe]

If it’s going to be a similar height often, I would setup a gauge block at that height and sweep it with an indicator on a fixed stand. That could then be used to determine the height of the cutter set.

I also use a height gauge but an indicator on a stand allows you to close in on the exact spot a little easier, since there is less risk of crashing carbide into carbide as with the height gauge.

[Bill Dufour]

Look online for a quill dro.
Bill D

[Mike Kees]

Brian, What is a gauge block ? Would it be possible to show me a picture of what you described ?

[Brian Holcombe]

It’s a block ground to a precise measurement, you can buy them in sets.

[Charles Coolidge]

I use a Oneway Multi Guage (Canada) and digital indicator. Less hassle than the magnetic base Noga's (I own 2) and no arm variance. These height gauges are also a good choice.

[Bill Dufour]

A common gauge block size is "1 2 3 block". precision ground perpendicular block one inch by two inches by three inches. Other sizes are made as well. Often has several through or tapped holes to mount things or clamp it down. Very handy to adjust things to square, like a tilting fence. They should be flat enough that they take some slight force to separate due to atomic attractions, not suction.
A set of "parallels" are similar but smaller in two dimensions.
Bill D

[Albert Lee]

I have looked at these gadgets before, in the end you are still spending a lot of time setting up spindle moulder for that 1 cut. and if you somehow made an error, you have to go back to the spindle moulder and set everything AGAIN.

Thats when I decided to go electronic spindle moulder.

[Carl Beckett]

One of the door router bit sets I have came with a 'setup block' - it was nothing more than a small piece that had been run through the bit at the correct dimension/heights.

So every time I go to run that pair - I simply pull out these blocks and adjust to fit them then I know it will mate properly.

I am not sure remembering some numerical setting is preferred. Or maybe you are tuning/dialing it in each time and need incremental adjustment?

[William Hodge]

There's something to be said for trial and error when setting up cope and stick cutters. I set the shapers up with a ruler, then check the wood with a dial caliper to see if I'm where I want to be. Moving the fences in one direction to approach the setting helps. I do this with the machine running, the movement is just a few thousandths.

With the shapers set up, I match the profile on the tenoner. Being direct drive it takes five minutes for the cutters to spin to a stop, so I make adjustments with the machine running. I just bring the cutters in to match the sticking. It takes 1/2 hour. It's important to know where the cutters are, and not run them into each other while the machine is running. Moving in one direction with each of the five heads, a little at a time, works. All the adjustments but one (bottom cope height above bottom tenon head) can be made from the far end of the motors away from the spinning cutter heads. I don't measure the cutter heads, just the wood. I do set knives in heads with a dial indicator.

[Scott T Smith]

In my wood and machine shop I routinely use all of the indicators, bases and gauges that have been posted by others thus far in this thread.

The one used the most frequently for moulder and shaper setup is a digital height gauge, such as this one from Wixey.

https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR200-Digital-Height-Fractions/dp/B001PTGBRG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3GN71UZV3WXWI&keywords=digital+height+gauge&qid=1645897083&sprefix=digital+heigth+guage%2Caps%2C739&sr=8-5


Standard digital calipers are also used frequently, but the digital height gauge is simple, fast, and accurate to within .001 or so.

[Mike Kees]

One of the door router bit sets I have came with a 'setup block' - it was nothing more than a small piece that had been run through the bit at the correct dimension/heights.

So every time I go to run that pair - I simply pull out these blocks and adjust to fit them then I know it will mate properly.

I am not sure remembering some numerical setting is preferred. Or maybe you are tuning/dialing it in each time and need incremental adjustment?
Carl ,the problem that I have to work with is the variable thickness of 1/4'' plywood that I use. Every shipment is different slightly . This is being used as panels in mission doors for cabinets. Therefore my groove width changes to accept the new thickness. this causes the tenon thickness to be adjusted on every new thickness as well.

[Mike Kees]

Thanks everyone for the reply's and and showing and telling me how you do this. I am going to buy a height gauge as well a a set of calipers for the shop. In relation to this discussion I have on order two 180 mm tenon disks to cut the tenon portion of these mission style doors. The ones I ordered are by Amana through Router bit world. thanks again ,Mike.

[Jeff Bartley]

In my wood and machine shop I routinely use all of the indicators, bases and gauges that have been posted by others thus far in this thread.

The one used the most frequently for moulder and shaper setup is a digital height gauge, such as this one from Wixey.

https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR200-Digital-Height-Fractions/dp/B001PTGBRG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3GN71UZV3WXWI&keywords=digital+height+gauge&qid=1645897083&sprefix=digital+heigth+guage%2Caps%2C739&sr=8-5


Standard digital calipers are also used frequently, but the digital height gauge is simple, fast, and accurate to within .001 or so.


Carl ,the problem that I have to work with is the variable thickness of 1/4'' plywood that I use. Every shipment is different slightly . This is being used as panels in mission doors for cabinets. Therefore my groove width changes to accept the new thickness. this causes the tenon thickness to be adjusted on every new thickness as well.

Mike, rather than change the thickness of the groove could you run a rabbit around the plywood panel to index it’s thickness? If you set the groove to the thinnest panels you’d only need to index the thicker panels.

[brent stanley]

Mike, rather than change the thickness of the groove could you run a rabbit around the plywood panel to index it’s thickness? If you set the groove to the thinnest panels you’d only need to index the thicker panels.

I have found that the surface finish on any exposed plywood as the result of this is usually pretty poor so only a reliable option if it will never be seen. You could make it tight to the inside of the rails/styles so it wouldn't be seen, but I have found that the time taken to set up a groover and discs for this job is far less than it takes to run a separate operation on all the panels.

[Kevin Jenness]

I have found that the surface finish on any exposed plywood as the result of this is usually pretty poor so only a reliable option if it will never be seen. You could make it tight to the inside of the rails/styles so it wouldn't be seen, but I have found that the time taken to set up a groover and discs for this job is far less than it takes to run a separate operation on all the panels.

I prefer a rabbeted panel for sturdiness and consistent tongue thickness. Plywood often varies in thickness even within one sheet, and 1/4" ply feels a bit thin to me in a cabinet door. I find a 3/8" or 1/2" panel with less than 1/8" reveal on the back better looking than a 1/4 " panel that is loose in spots. I set the groover height so I can use the same setup for rabbeting the panels.

[Mike Kees]

I have been using product with an MDF core the last while. This is more uniform in thickness than plain plywood that I used in the past. However the thickness varies from lot to lot as well as the two suppliers that I deal with. Once all the after effects from Covid work their way through the supply chain, maybe I will be able to rely on one consistent source of material and things will be easier. Who knows how long that could take. So for the immediate future it makes sense to me just to set up to deal with it.

[brent stanley]

I prefer a rabbeted panel for sturdiness and consistent tongue thickness. Plywood often varies in thickness even within one sheet, and 1/4" ply feels a bit thin to me in a cabinet door. I find a 3/8" or 1/2" panel with less than 1/8" reveal on the back better looking than a 1/4 " panel that is loose in spots. I set the groover height so I can use the same setup for rabbeting the panels.

I've always made out fine within the same shipment of ply up here, but I agree that a nominal 1/4" panel feels kinda wimpy. MDF will mill pretty cleanly and I've had good luck with BB and even milled a decorative scoop out of the back of 12mm BB to fit painted panels with good results. You're typically better off with higher grades of ply too with respect to how cleanly rebating the back works out.

[Warren Lake]

I only use 3/8" and up. Solid will be more, all will be back cut with some type of cutter, steel if it is solid most likely and different carbide for the ply. Amount of back cut, how far in will vary. Thos moser back cuts his panels a minor amount in fact from what I remember he was doing that on fronts of panels instead of the traditional raised panel look. I had a job years back where material came in over thickness and decided then I will never depend on material to be consistent. Back cutting allows you to size perfectly takes out any material fluctuation and you get the fit you want, thicker panel you make a better door. Ill do mortise and tennon and haunch, back cut a thicker panel and tell the customer they are getting a properly made door.

[Bill Dufour]

Something like this 6" quill dro with remote display. Around $30. Or spend three times that and get a real digital scale and remote single axis readout with big numbers you can see
Bill D.

[Bill Dufour]

Note that a real DRO has lots of functions you do not need. All you need is basic inch/metric and zero function. No need to calculate bolt circles, angles, offsets etc.
Bill D

Shars tool company is kind of like the Grizzly of machine shop tools. Good value not crazy good at ridiculous prices. Well worth looking at their measuring tools and drill bits.
https://www.shars.com/products

[Rod Sheridan]

I added a digital mechanical gauge to my shaper, works great.

I also have a freestanding digital height gauge.

For rails and stiles I have a notebook with settings for different cutters, the mechanical height gauge is perfect for that, no need to measure, put the cutter, or spacer and cutter on, crank it to the height recorded in the book.

Regards, Rod

[Mike Kees]

Ordered a height gauge and dial caliper from Lee Valley this morning. Think that will shorten my set up time significantly. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Rod Sheridan]

Sounds like the height gauge I have Mike……Rod

[Phillip Mitchell]

I added a digital mechanical gauge to my shaper, works great.

I also have a freestanding digital height gauge.

For rails and stiles I have a notebook with settings for different cutters, the mechanical height gauge is perfect for that, no need to measure, put the cutter, or spacer and cutter on, crank it to the height recorded in the book.

Regards, Rod

Rod,

Care to share details on what digital mechanical gauge you put on your shaper? Brand, pics, etc?

This has been on my mind a lot lately as well after adding a Pro Scale DRO to my planer last fall and wondering why in the world I waited so long. Suddenly the shaker is a bit more frustrating to set up in comparison :D

[Rod Sheridan]

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/handwheels-and-displays-sc124001/indicator-clock-with-digital-readout-sp124010

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/handwheels-and-displays-sc124001/aluminium-system-handwheel-sp607962

Hi Phillip, this is what I used, the gauge has a one revolution = 2mm scale, available in metric or imperial.

I have the metric one, my brother has the imperial one.

This is same gauge as on my planer.

If your machine has the same multiplier it will work and is accurate to 0.05mm if I remember correctly.

It works great and doesn't require batteries..................Regards, Rod.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks Rod,

Do I still need the Felder handwheel if my oem (SCM) handwheel does the same 2mm per rotation? I’m trying to see how the gauge/readout and the handwheel are linked, but not quite getting the full picture from the Felder website.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Thanks Rod,

Do I still need the Felder handwheel if my oem (SCM) handwheel does the same 2mm per rotation? I’m trying to see how the gauge/readout and the handwheel are linked, but not quite getting the full picture from the Felder website.

The outside diameter of the dial on my Hammer machine (the same one as Rod) is 84.5mm. On the Felder machines the dial fits inside the hand wheel. Short of having a hollow center hand wheel, I suppose that one may be able to fasten the dial somehow on the outside of the OEM you currently have.

Regards,

J.

[Greg Quenneville]

There are a few manufacturers of handwheel dials in a variety of calibrations. McMaster might have them. Elesa is one make, and I will search my bookmarks later for others.