Router Table Upgrade Advice

[Patrick Varley]

Just looking for some advice on an upgrade path.

Currently I have an older Freud FT2000E (switch broke, so speed control is bypassed and it runs on an external speed control) in a basic router plate on a TS extension wing. Works well enough, but honestly I want to move it out of the extension wing into it's own mobile cart. Just doesn't fit my workflow very well in the wing. At the same time, would be great if I could upgrade to something and get above-the-table height adjustment and bit changes. While I know I could go big and just upgrade both the router and get something like a Mast-R-Lift, I'd also like to keep things on a bit more of a budget (<$250) with an option to upgrade to something bigger down the road. I also have a Bosch 1617 laying around which gets less use now that most of my hand routing can be done with a cordless DeWalt palm router.

So I've figured out two potential options:
1) Keep the Freud, and buy a new plate and add a Router Raizer to get the height adjustment.
2) Buy the Jessem Rout R Lift II and use the 1617 in it.

Both options end up being similar in cost. Option 2 seems like it would be more convenient and is probably my preference, but comes at the expense of dropping from a 3.25HP router to a 2.25 HP router with the Bosch. So I suppose my question is whether I'll be losing much by doing that. I don't spin any big bits for panels, etc. Would appreciate any insight or other potential options.

[Jim Becker]

Those are reasonable options. Another is to get a router for under table use that's designed to support above table adjustments, such as the Triton, while retaining the higher amperage and power rating.

[james manutes]

There are options from Rockler and Kreg on lifts , less than $300 . Not as nice as Jess-Em , but not bad .

[glenn bradley]

I'd say something about being sorry for folks having to solve these problems in the post COVID priced world but then I sound like my parents :D. We can be thankful that now there are several lift options that don't require one to go the full distance to a Woodpecker, Incra, etc. Certainly the most cost effective is still the big Triton TRA001 that gives you a nigh amperage, torque controlled motor with a pretty decent lift feature built in. A move to the solidity of a billet machined style lift can double your cost ~$300 for the lift and ~$300 for the motor. Is the Triton (or other) as good as a dedicated motor in a massive lift housing? No. Is it pretty darn close? Yes. We always have to make cost / benefit decisions. I have a (at the time) $50 straight edge. It has met all my needs. I could have bought a $300 one and the cost benefit ration would have been all messed up. I spent that extra $250 on other things. Do your research, read EVERYTHING folks have to say and then apply your new knowledge to the decision that suits you best :)

[Charles Lent]

My next router table is going to have the big Triton router in it, since it allows easy above the table adjustments and since it does not require a router lift or insert. It will be bolted direct to the under side of the table. I like the Sommerfeld Router Table Top and fence design, so I'll likely have them, but I will hinge the top so it lifts up from the front so I can gain access to the router when access is needed. I'll buy some gas springs to make lifting and holding the top up easy and safe, to work under too. The cabinet below the top will likely be a cross between the design offered by Marc Sommerfeld DVD and the one designed and built by Norm Abram.

I don't like router table inserts, because they can move sideways in most router table tops designed for them. Though this shift is small, it does affect the final result. Why buy a router lift, when a large and reliable router is available that has above the table adjustment and easy bit changing above the table already built into it ? My age and knee replacements make it difficult and sometimes impossible to work on my routers when I need to get down low to reach under the table to work on it. This is my reason for wanting a lifting table top, but as all of you age, there will be a time when this is important to you too. Why not have it now?

Charley

[Patrick Varley]

Thanks everyone.

Triton TRA001 seems like a good compromise while only being a bit more expensive. I do like the idea of potentially avoiding a separate plate altogether. But question on that: is there someway to use some version of the reducer rings that mount into the various plates in a DIY setup? I know I could probably just cut a rabbet around the hole and fabricate my own rings, but I like the idea of something that locks/snaps into place.

[Mark Brewer]

I have a Benchdog cast iron table on a mobile base I built with parts from another mobile cart, using a PC 690 series router with a Rockler lift. I also only use 1/2 inch shank router bits.

[Anuj Prateek]

I have rout-r-lift package. I have DeWalt 618 mounted in it. I love it. It came perfectly flat, assembly was quick and the lift is smooth. This is the first lift I have used and love the repeatability of height adjustment. Before this I had a shop made table.

Things I would do differently, if buying again:
- I would skip the stand. It's of subpar quality.
- I may buy mast-r-lift. It can accept bigger routers so would have been good in terms of future proofing.

Problems:
- One of the wood fence face was cupped and bowed ever so slightly. Due to this it was not coplanar with other face. Few swipes from hand plane fixed it. With wood this is expected.
- There was inconsistent gap between table and stand top rails. Had to spend decent btime shimming the rails. This was not expected.

One post talks about plate moving sideways in table. This lift has zero side by side movement. There are two adjustments specifically to eliminate this.

[glenn bradley]

I’m sure folks are different but if you do much different stuff at the router table you will want a few different throat inserts. I have about a half a dozen stepped in 1/8’s plus a template collar size and they all get used.

[Alan Lightstone]

I’m sure folks are different but if you do much different stuff at the router table you will want a few different throat inserts. I have about a half a dozen stepped in 1/8’s plus a template collar size and they all get used.

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, my Ready-2-Rout system only has a couple of inserts. Could desperately use a few more sizes. It's incompatible with the variety of inserts I'm accumulated from other router lifts.

[Derek Cohen]

Just looking for some advice on an upgrade path.

Currently I have an older Freud FT2000E (switch broke, so speed control is bypassed and it runs on an external speed control) in a basic router plate on a TS extension wing. Works well enough, but honestly I want to move it out of the extension wing into it's own mobile cart. Just doesn't fit my workflow very well in the wing. At the same time, would be great if I could upgrade to something and get above-the-table height adjustment and bit changes. While I know I could go big and just upgrade both the router and get something like a Mast-R-Lift, I'd also like to keep things on a bit more of a budget (<$250) with an option to upgrade to something bigger down the road. I also have a Bosch 1617 laying around which gets less use now that most of my hand routing can be done with a cordless DeWalt palm router.

So I've figured out two potential options:
1) Keep the Freud, and buy a new plate and add a Router Raizer to get the height adjustment.
2) Buy the Jessem Rout R Lift II and use the 1617 in it.

Both options end up being similar in cost. Option 2 seems like it would be more convenient and is probably my preference, but comes at the expense of dropping from a 3.25HP router to a 2.25 HP router with the Bosch. So I suppose my question is whether I'll be losing much by doing that. I don't spin any big bits for panels, etc. Would appreciate any insight or other potential options.

Patrick, the Freud has 3 1/4 hp, which makes it a powerful engine. All you need is a way to raise-and-lower, and change bits easily. With these you have the basis of a good - and inexpensive - upgrade.

The Router Raizer works very well. I have one attached to an Elu.

For above-table bit changes, add a MuscleChuck. This also converts to a simple tightening collar.

https://i.postimg.cc/P5VGFvy5/Router-Raizer-Muscle-Chuck.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bill Dufour]

For that money you can buy a used cast iron table top shaper. For $400 or less get a used 1.5HP shaper with a real fence.
This Delta one on C-list is $200 in Bakersfield. bearings are about all that can go wrong.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

The issue with even the small shapers is that for small tooling typically used in router tables, they don't have the RPM necessary to support proper chip load and clean cutting for the "general woodworker". The cost of real shaper tooling, even for small spindles, tends to be a lot more than for a router. Again, I'm addressing the "average Joe/Jane" woodworker. Shapers indeed are the right choice for the heavier tasks if one's work needs that.

[Patrick Varley]

Patrick, the Freud has 3 1/4 hp, which makes it a powerful engine. All you need is a way to raise-and-lower, and change bits easily. With these you have the basis of a good - and inexpensive - upgrade.

The Router Raizer works very well. I have one attached to an Elu.

For above-table bit changes, add a MuscleChuck. This also converts to a simple tightening collar.

https://i.postimg.cc/P5VGFvy5/Router-Raizer-Muscle-Chuck.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Wow, thanks Derek. Had never heard of the Musclechuck, but after watching some videos it looks intriguing. That combined with a Router Raizer would seemingly address my issues while allowing me to keep using the Freud. Admittedly. I'm also concerned that as an older unit, the Freud may give out on me and I'd prefer not to dump money on upgrading it specifically only to be outta luck in a year or two. However it seems that I could always just get a DeWalt 625 and switch both upgrades over to that if I needed a repalcement.

Many good options...thanks to all.

[Derek Cohen]

Patrick, my Elu is the forerunner of the Dewalt DW625.

This is the set up for the 625 …

https://i.postimg.cc/tgFqGKwY/table_adjustment.jpg

The Elu 177e minus handles …

https://i.postimg.cc/Xq0KpxWV/RTF4a.jpg

The router table is built into the outfeed of a Hammer K3 slider …

https://i.postimg.cc/15scSWMB/RTF7a.jpg

The fence is shopmade. Details here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/RouterTableAdventure.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Charles Lent]

Patrick,

Here is a link to the router table top and fence that my previous comment was about. It does come with twist-lock insert rings, and it is pre-drilled to accept the Triton. Router. https://www.sommerfeldtools.com/Sommerfelds-Top-Fence/productinfo/SORS/

Go on Youtube and watch Marc Sommerfeld's videos on building the cabinet and using this router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYhD_b7WU3s This is in several videos. The link is to his first part video of three videos.

I plan to buy this table top and fence, then add the hinges, gas springs, and cabinet under it. Look at it's advantages when compared with the others. Notice the easy move and repeatable replacement of the fence, and how easy it is to use. Also compare the price of this to the other possibilities, not single prices, but the total package. You don't need a lift or plate if you go this way. You don't need to change bits under the table. You can lift the table top easily if you do need access to the router. You can use other routers with this table, but it is already predrilled for the big Triton. Anodized aluminum does not leave marks on your wood, so no worries about that. Somebody brought up this marking of wood by aluminum in the woodworking forums a few years ago. Anodized aluminum will not leave gray marks on the wood. Raw aluminum will, but not after it has been anodized. The Marc Sommerfeld table is anodized.

Charley

[Greg Quenneville]

Charles, you do need to access the router every time you change bit height or change bits. The Triton has a friction lock which prevents the setting from drifting, and you need to switch the router off every time you raise the spindle to change bits.
Also, the video is a bit dated as the big Triton does have through-the-table bit elevation.

My router table has a door to access those router features, and by now I can do it by feel without bending down.

I have always had inserts since the Lee Valley plates 30 years ago and find them useful, so I use a Kreg plate + rings with my Triton. Never had a slop issue with it.

[George Yetka]

I went right to the jess em Ultimate excel 2 package. Which don't get me wrong is an excellent table but with shop space being in short supply I wish I went with a wing for the TS.

For convenience top/side controls are great. A remote speed control and ON/off are also a great option. But it sounds like your set there. I would look at just making table(not sure this was part of the $250 budget) . Misumi fence and some t-track and get a new lift, Jessem has one for $230 and t track and a piece of extrusion would be in the neighborhood of $40.

I dont know how much routing you do but that Should do the trick.

[Carl Beckett]

I'd say something about being sorry for folks having to solve these problems in the post COVID priced world but then I sound like my parents :D. We can be thankful that now there are several lift options that don't require one to go the full distance to a Woodpecker, Incra, etc. Certainly the most cost effective is still the big Triton TRA001 that gives you a nigh amperage, torque controlled motor with a pretty decent lift feature built in. A move to the solidity of a billet machined style lift can double your cost ~$300 for the lift and ~$300 for the motor. Is the Triton (or other) as good as a dedicated motor in a massive lift housing? No. Is it pretty darn close? Yes. We always have to make cost / benefit decisions. I have a (at the time) $50 straight edge. It has met all my needs. I could have bought a $300 one and the cost benefit ration would have been all messed up. I spent that extra $250 on other things. Do your research, read EVERYTHING folks have to say and then apply your new knowledge to the decision that suits you best :)

Pretty good advice imo. One consideration: My router TOP is MDF with shellac. I do have a lift. In my opinion the priority of spending money would be first the fence, then height adjustment, then which router (tied to height adjustment usually), then the table top. Putting some T track into mdf and coating with shellac has served me surprisingly well (many years now).

As such, the Triton with an insert plate set into two layers of 3/4MDF. Use whatever leftover budget for the fence of your choosing.

Might be my consideration given your goals...

[Jared Sankovich]

Before I moved on to shapers I had (still have somewhere) a jessem Mast-r-lift and a pc7518 it worked well for a router & lift.

[Patrick Varley]

Well, just a follow-up on this. Thanks everyone for the advice.

First tried to use a MuscleChuck, but couldn't get it to fit on my Freud for some odd reason (DeRosa Engineering gave me no trouble returning, which was great). So I ended up just biting the bullet and geting a Triton TRA100. Helped that Amazon had an "open box" for $100 off. Of course, when I got it, for some reason it was not really open box, but "used for a project then sent back". Thing was caked with fine dust, and the lift mechanism was essentially jammed. After trying to see about a replacement, Amazon told me they didn't have another open box, so it would just be a refund. In a last-ditch effort, I took it apart and was able to clean/lube the rack and pinion mechanism which is apparently a weak point of this router (though the process was simple enough).

Since I was upgrading the router, I considered jus using my old plate, but decided to use the opportunity to upgrade to an Incra Magnalock. Built the cart for it with an integrated dust box, then added an old Jointech CL-12 that I picked up a few years ago for a song, but have never been able put to use. Based the table top dimensions on the large Incra offset top just in case I ever decide to upgrade to an Incra fence. Still have to finish up the cabinets/drawers and finish, but got it functional now. Certainly more utilitarian than some of the others I've lusted after, but worked out with the scrap I had laying around. Spent a bit more than initially planned, but happy with the outcome.

477000
477001
477002

[Bill Dufour]

I would look at the current used price of a 1.5 hp shaper with a router collet option. Probably no more then as good router and table. And almost any shaper fence will be better then a route table fence. If you get a three phase unit use a vfd to control rpm.
Bill D.

[Jim Becker]

Bill, the downside to the small shaper with a router collet is that these machines are not ideal for smaller diameter tooling because their top RPM is so slow compared to a router motor. They are nice for the heavier router tooling work, however.

[Patrick Varley]

I would look at the current used price of a 1.5 hp shaper with a router collet option. Probably no more then as good router and table. And almost any shaper fence will be better then a route table fence. If you get a three phase unit use a vfd to control rpm.
Bill D.

Bill,
Admittedly I've never used a shaper. But I don't raise panels, do a lot of edge profiling, or do production work, which to my understanding, is what shapers excel at. People also seem to have high praise for the Incra fences (and Jointech before it) when it comes to joinery, which is what I'm most interested in.

[Bill Dufour]

Anyone know if this is the 3hp delta shaper? Good deal for $200 if the spindle can be interchanged.
Bill D

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/tls/d/forest-knolls-delta-shaper/7455776008.html

[Rick Potter]

Looks like a WoodTec (sp?) to me. Color scheme.

[Bill Dufour]

Looks like a WoodTec (sp?) to me. Color scheme.
Looks like a school shop brush repaint job to me. With safety yellow on the edges you could bump into while walking by
Bill D.