Planer prices... aghhh

[andrew whicker]

Can't make this up... You guys finally convinced me to check out the Woodmaster, but it's gone. Here's my other options. Sigh.

474132

[Dave Roock]

https://woodmastertools.com/shop/planermolders/model-721-planer-molder/new-21-inch-5-hp-heavy-duty-helical-head-planer/

[Dave Roock]

Here is another brand new quality machine, less $ than used abused cast offs : https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-20-5-hp-planer/g0454

[Phillip Mitchell]

Patience is your ally in this situation if going used. I don’t think I would go for any of the ones you listed at those prices including the Woodmaster.

Is 20” (+) the size you need? Do you have 3 phase / converter? I got my 20” SCM S50 (late 70s era 4 knife head with grinder) for $1500 in summer of 2020 from a local WW equipment dealer that mostly sells factory / CNC stuff and but occasionally gets in less heavy industrial. Auctions are becoming less and less of a good option for deals. Most auctions I have watched over the last several months end with prices that are way too close to new for old, unknown quality machines. I’m assuming you search FB marketplace also? Do you know any local/regional cabinet shops / larger WW shops that may be upgrading machinery? Never hurts to introduce yourself and inquire nicely.

I have also had some luck in the past posting WTB ads on Wood Web classifieds (as well as checking there twice a day for new listings) as well as places like OWWM, and any more local/regional woodworking forums that may exist.

[andrew whicker]

I have 3 phase

I just want an upgrade. period. Mine snipes and I've done everything I can think of beyond taking it completely apart and starting over. It's not a bad machine for getting it used at 400, but I'm ready to have real equipment.

Especially with my shop having 4 phase

[Mel Fulks]

Some planers will stop the snipes , if you just put some lift on the material at trailing end.

[andrew whicker]

I've tried it all.

[Jared Sankovich]

That dc580 @ $2800 is the best option there. Segmented infeed/chipbreaker and a byrd head.

[Jared Sankovich]

Here is another brand new quality machine, less $ than used abused cast offs : https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-20-5-hp-planer/g0454

Not really in the same class as the used machines.

[Dave Roock]

Maybe not the same as when those machines were new - take a good long look at them, they look abused & worn out.

[Andrew Seemann]

I've got the 15" version of that Grizzly, if you drop the lower rollers, it has very little snipe, unless you run a really long, heavy board through unsupported.

Call me naive, but if you managed to wear out that Grizzly, I'd think that it would have more than paid for itself several times over.

[Mike Kees]

Maybe not the same as when those machines were new - take a good long look at them, they look abused & worn out.
I like people who look at a picture and decide something is "Junk". Most of my shop is full of machines like that. My Centauro CO 600 looked awful in the add, I went anyway and ended up pulling it home for $600. I did spend $500 painting it and replacing all of the bearings. Also made a few missing handles and a dust chute.

[Jared Sankovich]

Maybe not the same as when those machines were new - take a good long look at them, they look abused & worn out.

We apparently have vastly differing opinions of what abused and worn out looks like.

I'd take any of those 3 (excluding the yellow pm over the new grizzly. )

[Dave Sabo]

We apparently have vastly differing opinions of what abused and worn out looks like.

I'd take any of those 3 (excluding the yellow pm over the new grizzly. )

Me too.

Plus it'll take you a while to actually take delivery of the grizzly.

[Holmes Anderson]

I've tried it all.

The used PM 201 and older, green made-in-USA PM are what I would look at first. The Delta/Rockwell machines are also good but parts may be more difficult or even impossible to find. As someone pointed out, these are a different class of planer than the cheaply manufactured four posters you linked to.

On your current machine, what is the height of the bed rollers? What are the heights of the chip breaker and pressure bar relative to datum? The basic design of four posters is pretty much the same regardless of manufacturer and the same things will cause snipe.

[Billy Stray]

I feel your pain, I've been searching & saving for about a year and a half, now that I'm ready to buy the prices have gone up $1500-$2000 on a segmented infeed helical head anything!
I just watched a used PM201HH sell for $10,000 !! Which is about $700.00 below current retail. The guy who sold it probably paid in the mid 8's for it ..
I've been buying woodworking tools and machinery for over 25 yrs and have never seen a spike like this , these are crazy times...

[Dave Roock]

How easy will it be to find parts for these 30-40+ year old machines ? That would be a definite concern that anybody should consider. If you see an old machine being sold, another thing to consider would be why are they selling ? If it is such a great machine that would serve your needs, why is it not being kept by current owner ?
Are they really "upgrading" ?

[Jared Sankovich]

How easy will it be to find parts for these 30-40+ year old machines ? That would be a definite concern that anybody should consider. If you see an old machine being sold, another thing to consider would be why are they selling ? If it is such a great machine that would serve your needs, why is it not being kept by current owner ?
Are they really "upgrading" ?

Parts availability is dependent on the specific machine and manufacturer, just like buying new. Though industrial machinery shouldn't need much.

I get it, you don't like used machines. Which is fine, it leaves more for the rest of us.

[Dave Roock]

Parts availability is dependent on the specific machine and manufacturer, just like buying new. Though industrial machinery shouldn't need much.

I get it, you don't like used machines. Which is fine, it leaves more for the rest of us.

Your assertion is incorrect. My comments had zero to do with "not liking used machines". OP was looking to upgrade to a better planer - budget range was mentioned, needs should be considered. An older machine which came from a well kept/run shop, where you could personally see machine being run, would be a legit option. Consideration should also include that, no matter how great of a machine it was originally, how much more useful life expectancy do any of these machines still have left after 30-40 years of consistent use ? Spending at the top of a budget, then having to source parts & repair, is less than ideal.
Plenty of people on here who are very happy with their Grizzly planers/tools - many viable options would fill need to upgrade. If budget is unlimited, one of those Felder Jointer/Planer combos would be awesome.

[Jared Sankovich]

Your assertion is incorrect. My comments had zero to do with "not liking used machines". OP was looking to upgrade to a better planer - budget range was mentioned, needs should be considered. An older machine which came from a well kept/run shop, where you could personally see machine being run, would be a legit option. Consideration should also include that, no matter how great of a machine it was originally, how much more useful life expectancy do any of these machines still have left after 30-40 years of consistent use ? Spending at the top of a budget, then having to source parts & repair, is less than ideal.
Plenty of people on here who are very happy with their Grizzly planers/tools - many viable options would fill need to upgrade. If budget is unlimited, one of those Felder Jointer/Planer combos would be awesome.

You posted a link to a grizzly planer that was more money than all but one of the planers listed in the OPs first post. It's also inherently inferior based on the design to all of the planers listed.

You keep saying the machines are worn out after 30-40 years. How many worn out 30-40 year old industrial woodworking machines do you have any direct experience with?

[Dave Sabo]

Your assertion is incorrect. My comments had zero to do with "not liking used machines". OP was looking to upgrade to a better planer - budget range was mentioned, needs should be considered. An older machine which came from a well kept/run shop, where you could personally see machine being run, would be a legit option. Consideration should also include that, no matter how great of a machine it was originally, how much more useful life expectancy do any of these machines still have left after 30-40 years of consistent use ? Spending at the top of a budget, then having to source parts & repair, is less than ideal.
Plenty of people on here who are very happy with their Grizzly planers/tools - many viable options would fill need to upgrade. If budget is unlimited, one of those Felder Jointer/Planer combos would be awesome.

what exactly do you think is going to be worn out and not available for those machines.

Bearings , motors, knives, hand wheels all are available today.

If the bed is worn , you won’t find one of those - but you wouldn’t be buying the planer anyway.

funny you mentioned Felder - their hammer 12” jointer planer isn’t much more than that grizzly you linked.

[Dave Roock]

You posted a link to a grizzly planer that was more money than all but one of the planers listed in the OPs first post. It's also inherently inferior based on the design to all of the planers listed.

You keep saying the machines are worn out after 30-40 years. How many worn out 30-40 year old industrial woodworking machines do you have any direct experience with?

Any piece of machinery that has 30-40 years of hard use has wear & limited future usage - not just limited to wood working machines. I have looked at a few 25-50 year old ones & passed because of concerns of repairs/maintenance. Options for a well kept, well maintained old machine are probably viable in some areas of the USA, probably infrequent & probably over priced versus new. Go ahead and detail your personal first hand experience sourcing parts & repairing similar machines - I am listening & willing to learn facts regarding this from anyone with actual experience.

OP or any others should determine their intended volume usage before buying new or used - no need to get a huge industrial planer for typical usage. Many options would be an upgrade from OP's problem planer that is leaving snipe with no hope of improving. Maybe the Grizzly one I posted a link is not the best option, maybe it would be excellent. Someone who has one could give us all a review.
Personally, I would buy : https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/planer-thicknessers-planers-thicknessers-sc613746/planer-thicknesser-hammer-a3-31-sp979003
That would be a very big upgrade for both a planer & jointer.

[Kevin Jenness]

Go ahead and detail your personal first hand experience sourcing parts & repairing similar machines - I am listening & willing to learn facts regarding this from anyone with actual experience.

I have a Powermatic 160 planer built in 1965. Put new cutterhead bearings in it at purchase and have run it for about 8 years. Everything original, no further repairs. Bought it for $1700.

I bought a 36" Crescent bandsaw when I set up shop in 1985, paid $1800. Built in the 40's or 50's. Swapped out the 3 phase motor for single phase (had I but known enough to get a phase converter back then). No repairs. Sold it to my son recently for $1800.

About 3 years ago I picked up a Delta 17-600 drill press probably from the 60's for $250. Rebuilt the chuck. I managed to strip the table elevation gears and had some teeth built up so I could grind them back into shape.

Used machines aren't for everybody, and I guess currently they are more $ than before, but if you buy carefully they can be a good value. Parts on industrial grade machinery rarely break, many are generic like starters and bearings, and anything can be recreated by a good machinist/fabricator. That can be expensive, but is balanced by the initial machine cost.

In my shop I have only a few machines purchased new, a 16" jointer, slot mortiser and sliding miter saw. Everything else was bought used and I haven't had any serious problems. Even if you buy new there is no guarantee that the company will support your machine for any length of time - try getting parts for a 20 year old SCMI, or anything from Delta.

[Dave Roock]

Go ahead and detail your personal first hand experience sourcing parts & repairing similar machines - I am listening & willing to learn facts regarding this from anyone with actual experience.

I have a Powermatic 160 planer built in 1965. Put new cutterhead bearings in it at purchase and have run it for about 8 years. Everything original, no further repairs. Bought it for $1700.

I bought a 36" Crescent bandsaw when I set up shop in 1985, paid $1800. Built in the 40's or 50's. Swapped out the 3 phase motor for single phase (had I but known enough to get a phase converter back then). No repairs. Sold it to my son recently for $1800.

About 3 years ago I picked up a Delta 17-600 drill press probably from the 60's for $250. Rebuilt the chuck. I managed to strip the table elevation gears and had some teeth built up so I could grind them back into shape.

Used machines aren't for everybody, and I guess currently they are more $ than before, but if you buy carefully they can be a good value. Parts on industrial grade machinery rarely break, many are generic like starters and bearings, and anything can be recreated by a good machinist/fabricator. That can be expensive, but is balanced by the initial machine cost.

In my shop I have only a few machines purchased new, a 16" jointer, slot mortiser and sliding miter saw. Everything else was bought used and I haven't had any serious problems. Even if you buy new there is no guarantee that the company will support your machine for any length of time - try getting parts for a 20 year old SCMI, or anything from Delta.


Agreed - having good mechanical skills will open up many options. Good buy on that Powermatic planer. No question that some good buys on older equipment do pop up - having metal mill skills or having a friend who does would be excellent. Never noticed or paid attention to the radial arm saw at local Home Depot, walked past it hundreds of times. Recently had a 12 ft 2 x 12 cut in 1/2 on that saw - turns out it is a old Delta from original store build late 1980's - I have standing offer to buy now - after watching it zip right through that 2 x 12 like butter - they probably will not be selling it any time soon. Have a Delta Miter Saw from early 90's from that store & a Bosch circular saw from same time period. Both get used here - both made in USA.

[Dave Roock]

what exactly do you think is going to be worn out and not available for those machines.

Bearings , motors, knives, hand wheels all are available today.

If the bed is worn , you won’t find one of those - but you wouldn’t be buying the planer anyway.

funny you mentioned Felder - their hammer 12” jointer planer isn’t much more than that grizzly you linked.

Yes, I found that Hammer A3-31 to be a very good/excellent price for such quality - having both jointer & planer functions is very desirable in 1 machine. The current prices for anything decent ( not limited to wood working equipment) are absurd all over the USA. Like any other items, good buys pop up - seller motivations on anything are the key. Finding estate sale with some equipment might be good place. If someone does not need a 20-25 inch planer, there are many options.

[Kevin Jenness]

having metal mill skills or having a friend who does would be excellent.

That's true as a general proposition, but my experience suggests it's not often necessary with used machines. The gear repair I mention was welded by a local machine shop for about $30 and I reshaped the teeth with a die grinder and file. I wouldn't buy a used machine needing serious repairs unless the price was super low or it was something unique.

[Bill Dufour]

There are three HD's within five miles of my house. All three have a big dewalt ras. Rebuilt and rebadged as Original saw company. They remove the switch on the front of the arm and have a wall mounted code key switch. No easy way to turn it off if something slips. they also have new panel saw setup.
Bill D

[Jared Sankovich]

Any piece of machinery that has 30-40 years of hard use has wear & limited future usage - not just limited to wood working machines. I have looked at a few 25-50 year old ones & passed because of concerns of repairs/maintenance. Options for a well kept, well maintained old machine are probably viable in some areas of the USA, probably infrequent & probably over priced versus new. Go ahead and detail your personal first hand experience sourcing parts & repairing similar machines - I am listening & willing to learn facts regarding this from anyone with actual experience.

OP or any others should determine their intended volume usage before buying new or used - no need to get a huge industrial planer for typical usage. Many options would be an upgrade from OP's problem planer that is leaving snipe with no hope of improving. Maybe the Grizzly one I posted a link is not the best option, maybe it would be excellent. Someone who has one could give us all a review.
Personally, I would buy : https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/planer-thicknessers-planers-thicknessers-sc613746/planer-thicknesser-hammer-a3-31-sp979003
That would be a very big upgrade for both a planer & jointer.

I have 2 machines that are 79 years old that needed nothing but a cleaning to get running. Both were bought as is, one was in a field when I looked at it.

I just picked up a 1968 pm180. It looked like it had a hard life, wasn't under power and needed a motor starter and cap. A bit if rust removal and a mag starter & start cap from Amazon and it's running great.

I picked up a 25 year old import shaper that was ridden hard and put away wet. Seized spindle from what I assume was a roof lead. $400 for the machine with a power feeder. $130 in bearings and $5 in sandpaper ton clean up the top and it was back in business.

I have a shop full of old machines and the only thing I've replaced are bearings (and only on the relatively new machines)

Again I'll ask, what do you think wears out on equipment?

[Mike Kees]

Dave, was just in my shop all morning. Have not thought about it for a while but of the 16 stationary machines in my shop only one was purchased new. There have been two others one was a 15'' Delta planer and a 3hp Steel City shaper that I purchased new ,and eventually sold. I buy used to save money and time. What people miss when they think of the new/used question is all the time cleaning up and adjusting a new machine. I have seen far more threads on this forum of guys with issues with new machines/warranty stuff than guys looking for parts on used stuff. When you buy used sometimes there are things to fix/adjust ,but sometimes you get a plug and play that someone else has gone through. The key is knowing what stuff is worth and having a realistic view of your own abilities to fix and adjust machines. Financially It would cost me more than double to replace my stuff with new.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I’ll echo that. I have my shop full of used, “light” industrial, 3 phase machines ranging in age from a few from the early 1940’s up to late 1990s with most being in the 70s-80s and have had no issues other than normal wear items (bandsaw tires, guides, bearings) and don’t have to worry about complicated electronics crapping out on me and having to call a manufacturer’s tech for a $150/hr house call. Many of the machines have needed absolutely nothing at all and I have gotten them for what I consider very reasonable / good deal prices compared to what I see of new machinery and some used machinery these days. Not sure what the risk is that can’t most easily be solved. I don’t typically but tools that have critical components damaged / needing rebuilding or replacement as I buy them to work with and not tinker and restore.

I think it would cost me 5-8x what I have in my shop machinery to replace with equivalent quality new machines.

[Dave Roock]

Excellent that some people have working industrial older woodworking equipment in use in their businesses - someone finding equipment from a shop like yours that is being downsized or closed, would be a great place to find older working machines. Made in the USA, all the better. 474180 Here is the radial arm saw at local HD - fine late 1980's Delta product - something like this would be a buy now. HD guy said he has a 1953 one, said he looked for long time before finding a shop closing up. Finding a similar condition planer nearby, when you need/want one, could be an exercise in extreme patience to say the least. Interesting that my searching found a Delta Multi-Plex 30 A with owners manual & original instructions - seller and I even have 1 mutual friend lol Since it is less than 3 miles and asking price is $75.00, I could be the new owner. :)

[Bill Dufour]

Be honest how many people really adjust their tools. I mean on a table saw most leave it at 90 degrees and whatever cut depth it is set to. Do you really adjust your jointer depth of cut very often? Yes a planer or drill press gets the cut depth moved at every cut.
Bill D

[Jared Sankovich]

Be honest how many people really adjust their tools. I mean on a table saw most leave it at 90 degrees and whatever cut depth it is set to. Do you really adjust your jointer depth of cut very often? Yes a planer or drill press gets the cut depth moved at every cut.
Bill D


I adjust the jointer infeed every time I use it, and I'll actually adjust mid session while I'm jointing. It's 0.010" DOC per revolution of the ships wheel so convenient to change.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Not sure how we got to jointer adjustments but I do change my infeed table / depth of cut depending on how bowed, warped, twisted or flat the stock is. There have been times when I set it to cut 1/4” + on something really bad just to cut down on the tail chasing that can happen sometimes on warped, etc stuff. I typically keep it set a 1/16” so I always know how much to expect to loose with each pass but have moved it to 1/32” or less at times to clean up an edge that was already very close. If you don’t ever adjust your jointer depth of cut then you’re not using the machine to its fullest potential, IMO.

edit - also do plenty of beveling of the blade and exact heights on the table saw so not quite sure what you’re going for there Bill.

[Mitch schiffer]

After having to order a couple parts for a older delta bandsaw I don't think I will ever consider a delta machine in my shop again. I would recommend you look for something with a segmented indeed roller/ chip breakers. If you go new oliver, and cantek are 2 options i would look at the most.

[Bill Dufour]

edit - also do plenty of beveling of the blade and exact heights on the table saw so not quite sure what you’re going for there Bill.[/QUOTE]

My first saw was a tilting table contractor saw so I almost never did tilts. I still try to avoid them. The only cuts that I care about blade height are dadoes. I just mean that those
adjustment moving parts do not get much wear on a older machine. Arbor bearings can and do wear out. Very little else will wear so much it can not be adjusted back.
Bill D.
Bill D