Panel or frame saw

[Richard Hutchings]

I have some money coming in and I have problem needing to be solved. I want to resaw some 7" wide rosewood for backs of guitars. Since my bandsaw is too small, I'm forced to do it by hand or take it to someone. What's the fun in that.

Which tool should I buy or build to get the best results with the least waste?

[chris carter]

Blackburn tools roubo frame saw kit. https://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-kit/index.html

I am forced to do all my resawing by hand and this is hands down the best way to do it. Get the BIGGEST kit you can handle (I got the 4x48” 2-1/3 TPI).

Pros:
- Cut straight so less waste.
- won’t bow in the middle like a hand saw can so less waste.
- cuts FAST FAST FAST. Did I say FAAAAST????
- Very easy on the body, burns few calories compared to a hand saw.

Cons:
- You have to build the frame. It’s easy, but it’s an extra project.
- There is a small learning curve, but it’s small.
- you need a heavy bench or it will push your bench around (at least the 2-1/3 TPI one can). Or add some weight to the shelf of your bench.

I used to use a 26” 4-1/2 TPI (I think) hand saw to resaw. I could never go back.

I consider a panel saw to be shorter than a hand saw so I would not consider it for a 7" wide hardwood board.

[Richard Hutchings]

Thank you, that's what I'll get.

[Todd Trebuna]

I have the 36 inch and it is a real pleasure to use. Makes short work of resawing.

[Monte Milanuk]

How's the re-sawing with the smaller Blackburn frame saw compare vs. a continental style frame saw like the ones from Highland Woodworking?

I realize the one is purpose-built for re-sawing... but I'm curious how 'bad' the experience would be with something that is a little less of a one-trick pony.

[Lawrence Burkett]

Chris,

Curious about your experience: How wide is the material that you would (comfortably) resaw?

[Richard Hutchings]

I think I'm going to build a leg vise before the frame saw. I don't think my vise can handel the saw.

[Jim McCue]

How's the re-sawing with the smaller Blackburn frame saw compare vs. a continental style frame saw like the ones from Highland Woodworking?

I realize the one is purpose-built for re-sawing... but I'm curious how 'bad' the experience would be with something that is a little less of a one-trick pony.


I've been wondering this also. I'm drawn to highland woodworking's 700mm frame saw w turbocut blade but a lot of the blogs/youtubers are using blackburn style frame saws.

[Luke Dupont]

I've been wondering this also. I'm drawn to highland woodworking's 700mm frame saw w turbocut blade but a lot of the blogs/youtubers are using blackburn style frame saws.


I'm also also wondering this.

My hunch is that it depends on the blade you use. If you use a big, long, 2 1/2 TPI blade, you'll probably get very similar results -- it just won't be quite as easy to control the cut.

I've resawn with my home made bow saws before, but the coarsest blade that I had made for them was 8 TPI, so not great, and I wasn't resawing very wide pieces. I did prefer my bow saw to my panel saw for that, though -- both were about the same TPI and length, but the bow saw did offer some advantage as its blade was thinner (the thickness being around 0.5 to 0.6mm) and the handcut and set teeth (being home made) seem to offer a slightly smoother cut. It's subtle, but there.

It is more difficult to keep the saw at the right angle with the blade turned though. Takes practice.


EDIT: I do not think the turbocut blade is what you want though. That's a Japanese style crosscut blade -- very bad for resawing.
You want the lowest TPI rip cut blade you can find, preferably something with widely spaced, western style rip teeth. I'm curious if wider bandsaw blades might work, though it's not difficult to make your own from some appropriately widthed and thicknessed steel.

[Monte Milanuk]

That was kind of the rub, as far as I could see. The 'coarsest' rip blade that Highland offers for that saw is a 700mm (~27") 5 tpi... so I'm not sure how much different the experience would be from the 4.5 tpi 26" hand saw that Chris mentioned. The blade would be thinner (depth) than the plate on a hand saw, but I have no idea how much that affects the experience. A sufficiently motivated person could probably find some bandsaw blade and make their own. I've heard bits and pieces here and there that the tooth geometry on a blade intended for an electron-powered bandsaw is not necessarily the right geometry for a meat-powered hand saw ;)

Basically, I really 'want' (vs. 'need') one of those ECE frame saws, just because, and should probably just get one on the way so I can play with it and find out for myself ;)

[Luke Dupont]

That was kind of the rub, as far as I could see. The 'coarsest' rip blade that Highland offers for that saw is a 700mm (~27") 5 tpi... so I'm not sure how much different the experience would be from the 4.5 tpi 26" hand saw that Chris mentioned. The blade would be thinner (depth) than the plate on a hand saw, but I have no idea how much that affects the experience. A sufficiently motivated person could probably find some bandsaw blade and make their own. I've heard bits and pieces here and there that the tooth geometry on a blade intended for an electron-powered bandsaw is not necessarily the right geometry for a meat-powered hand saw ;)

Basically, I really 'want' (vs. 'need') one of those ECE frame saws, just because, and should probably just get one on the way so I can play with it and find out for myself ;)


Don't be afraid to make your own. It's pretty simple and straight forward to make frame saws, and even the blades aren't difficult to make (though, certainly a bit time consuming, especially if you want a finer TPI blade). I just made a blade myself, as a new dad with very little free time. 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there. Lots of filing and patience. But it's finished now and will last me a pretty long time :)

The frame is rather fun and simple to make. I have difficulty managing large, heavy frame saws, so I make mine a bit lighter and thinner, with thin mortise and tenon stretchers instead of a larger bridle or through mortise on the stretchers as is more common.

You can make them as fancy or as simple as you like, and customize them to your needs, and change out the blades to have pretty much any saw you like.

But, I'm still no expert in these saws. They take experience and practice to make accurate cuts. I built mine, in both instances, as a substitute for a good panel saw for quickly ripping and crosscutting boards to rough dimensions, and they work really well for that even in the hands of a novice.

I think I'll try using them exclusively for a while and see if I can't get good at making more accurate cuts as well.

[Charles Guest]

I regular 26" rip saw will resaw 7" wide boards with no problem. If you have a saw tuned for ripping hardwoods, with a minimal set, then the kerf loss shouldn't be too dramatic between the hand saw and a frame saw.

99% chance you have what you need already without a bunch of Hooray, and Who Shot John to wade through.

Super important not to "press" the saw. Make sure it's sharp, let it move through the wood at its own pace. Forcing it will only make the process go more slowly.

[Phil Mueller]

Tom Fidgen is a true hand tool purist in every sense of the word. This video shows resawing with a kerfing plane and frame saw (both hand made of course). Hard to tell, but I’d guess the blade is somewhere in the 4-5 tpi range. While some might suggest I need to get a life, I find watching him resaw to that level of perfection inspring.

https://youtu.be/OtmswWZ4Lvo

[Charles Guest]

It's absolutely the proper tool, but it can be done with a regular handsaw and one isn't that disadvantaged. And once you start using a frame saw for resawing, you might just find yourself a convert to them, generally.

If the goal is to get the guitar built, then the resawing can be done without a bow saw. If the goal is to establish a guitar making operation, then it probably makes sense to stop and buy or build a frame saw.

This is also an area where power makes sense in the long run.

[Richard Hutchings]

HA ha, the goal is to have fun in my workshop. I don't own a rip saw and my bandsaw is too small and I'm not upgrading it, I can cut the sides on it. The rosewood I have is very expensive and I don't want to waste any more than I have to.

Now Charles, you've thrown a monkey wrench in by telling me that I can do it with a regular saw. I counter that with this. Tired arm vs sawing with my body. I wish I had a good rip saw to try, I mean, I do want to get a workout when I'm building stuff which is part of the allure of hand tools for me. Just not sure how much effort I want to put in.

Before I do any of this, I am now planning to remove the face vise and replace it with a leg vise after experiencing some difficulty holding things while re-sawing some small things.

[Charles Guest]

You need a decent rip saw in your kit.

[Richard Hutchings]

Yeah but if I buy a decent rip saw then I won't have the money to build a frame saw. Maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse but watching YouTubers use those frame saws is really enticing. What would you consider a decent ripsaw, not one of those $300 jobs but under $200.

[Charles Guest]

I have an E T Roberts and Lee saw I paid $50 for in perfect condition. It wasn't their top end saw, but it works mighty fine. This is a vintage saw. Saws are still made and sold under that brand name. They're like to be fine as well, though probably more than $50.

I resaw 5/4 stock for drawer sides all the time. I use both arms. I'm somewhat ambidextrous, but when you realize that you don't, and shouldn't, press the saw it's not a big deal to move it in the cut with either hand. It's still work, but if you come away drenched in sweat something's wrong.

[Richard Hutchings]

I was just checking out some Lynx saws. One listed for $109 and the other $179. The only difference I can see is that the more expensive one, has fancier handle and what looks like tradition screws holding it together. Both 4 1/2" TPI taper ground. The more expensive also states hand sharpened while the less expensive I read one reviewer state the kerf was .07" and had to be reset. After that he claimed the saw worked really well. That doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Then there's that Spears and Jackson for pocket change. Yeah the handle looks like crap compared to vintage but if that is the only issue than I can live with that and maybe make a better one someday.

[Tony Wilkins]

Go find a vintage rip hand saw before you ever think about making a huge frame saw to resaw. Get the appropriate file to sharpen it and you are set. There are lots of nice vintage saws out there for much less than $100 that come from an era when real craftsman used them for actual work day in and day out.

[Richard Hutchings]

The problem is the only ones I ever see are crosscut/too many tpi and severely pitted. I tried to restore one and gave up. I'll gladly clean up a little rust if the etching can still be read.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Go find a vintage rip hand saw before you ever think about making a huge frame saw to resaw. Get the appropriate file to sharpen it and you are set. There are lots of nice vintage saws out there for much less than $100 that come from an era when real craftsman used them for actual work day in and day out.

I concur with Tony. Unless you’re willing to pay boutique prices, stick to vintage. They are out there. I bought a Disston No. 7, 4ppi, in pristine condition from a fellow Creeker. Rips through everything with very little effort but I wouldn’t want to use it for an all-day session of resawing. Then again, at my age (73) I wouldn’t want to use the one-trick pony frame saw either.

Maybe this video will help:
https://youtu.be/A1GHQwYoux0

[Charles Guest]

The Piddlehinton Shop – The Vintage Tool Shop, The Old Dairy, Carters Barn Farm, Piddlehinton, Dorchester DT2 7TH (https://vintagetoolshop.com/pages/the-stalbridge-shop)

[Richard Hutchings]

I watched the video and it seems like the frame saw is the way to go once again. I'll want both eventually but the frame saw will do the cuts I need for guitar backs and sides. I feel like the 36" wood be fine as I'm not doing a lot of re-sawing but I'm still on the fence. I build slowly so I don't mind if it takes an hour to get a set cut. I can split that up over a period of time as well. No production worries in my shop.

[Mike Allen1010]

Really interesting practical question; lots of people don’t have a big bandsaw to facilitate resawing.

I’ve used both frame saw with coarse rip filed 1” wide blade and panel saw (Disston D-8, 28”, 4 PPI). Personally, I had better results with panel saw.

Biggest error in resawing by hand is not being able to follow the line and get consistent width. For me panel saw was much easier to keep on line.

Bottom line resawing screams for giant band saw! Incredible improvement in speed, effort and accuracy vs. hand saw. I remember talking with Ron Wentzloff (premium hand saw makers) to ask his advice about best saw for resawing and he said “get best band saw you can afford”.

If you are committed to hand saw, I sincerely think the dedicated resaw frame saws like Tom Hindgins uses is way to go-much faster and more accurate than a typical frame saw.

Just my experience, YMMV.

Cheers, Mike

[Richard Hutchings]

Don't want a big bandsaw. If I find it too difficult, I'll buy my wood pre sawn.