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Jon Eckardt
01-17-2006, 8:30 PM
I am currently researching what types of laser machines are available as I am considering starting a home business doing laser woodworking. I have looked into the EPILOGLASER and it looks pretty good, but I'm new to this.
Any inputs from the experienced would be very helpful.:)
Thanks,
jon

Lee DeRaud
01-17-2006, 8:42 PM
"Woodworking" covers a lot of territory...care to be a bit more specific about your plans? What you're trying to do makes a huge difference in what machine you'll want/need, not to mention whether it's even feasible or not.

Jon Eckardt
01-18-2006, 2:26 PM
:) Sorry about the lack of detail! I'm considering buying a laser machine that I can use, at least initially for lasering wood plaques, boxes, craft type items. I don't envision a high production in the first few years, but I would rather buy a unit that I can grow into vise trading up. I would like to work this "hobby" into a business when I retire in a few years, so I would like to get proficient with the machine and establish myself in the small home business market over the next 2-3 years, so when I do retire, I can get into the business on a more full time basis.
With that said, I am looking for some advice from you veterans as far as what wattage machine would best fit my application. I am considering an EPILOGLASER 36EXT with a 45 watt laser. My biggest question is what are the major differences between the wattages. I feel like getting a middle of the road wattage will most likely do everything I want to donow and in the future. If speed is the biggest difference in power, then what would be a good example of the time/power ratio. I don't want to get too much or too little power. I want to have a physically large machine so that I am not limited too much in the size of the wood that I can fit in the machine.
I would appreciate any help in making my decision.

Jon Eckardt

Ed Lang
01-18-2006, 3:00 PM
Be sure to look at the Universal Lasers, I am glad I did.

I bought a 50W machine M-300 and have been quite happy with it.

Lee DeRaud
01-18-2006, 4:06 PM
:) Sorry about the lack of detail! I'm considering buying a laser machine that I can use, at least initially for lasering wood plaques, boxes, craft type items. I don't envision a high production in the first few years, but I would rather buy a unit that I can grow into vise trading up. I would like to work this "hobby" into a business when I retire in a few years, so I would like to get proficient with the machine and establish myself in the small home business market over the next 2-3 years, so when I do retire, I can get into the business on a more full time basis.
With that said, I am looking for some advice from you veterans as far as what wattage machine would best fit my application. I am considering an EPILOGLASER 36EXT with a 45 watt laser. My biggest question is what are the major differences between the wattages. I feel like getting a middle of the road wattage will most likely do everything I want to donow and in the future. If speed is the biggest difference in power, then what would be a good example of the time/power ratio. I don't want to get too much or too little power. I want to have a physically large machine so that I am not limited too much in the size of the wood that I can fit in the machine.
I would appreciate any help in making my decision.

Jon Eckardt45 watts is plenty for engraving wood: there's a lot of us making do with 25-30 (making that speed/power tradeoff). If you're planning on a lot of cutting, you may want to go ahead and factor in the price of air assist.

And unless you're planning on engraving whole table tops or something like that, most machines in that power range are big enough to handle the stuff you're talking about.

Mike Mackenzie
01-18-2006, 4:06 PM
Jon,

It sounds like for the amount of money you want to invest that this will be a very expensive HOBBY. You may want to start out on a smaller scale and then build it up as you go along. The investment in a smaller platform is a lot less. Yes it will have some size restrictions but if the hobby business does well then you should be able to pay for this equipment very quickly and then when you retire your business if doing well, you can add larger more powerful equipment.

If you start out with a large investment for a business that you are not sure where it may go then your payback will be much longer if at all.

Something to consider!

Also there are a lot of laser system MFG's if you invest anything you owe it to yourself to check them all out.

Ed Lang
01-18-2006, 4:19 PM
Mike brings a good point to the table.

My wife and I looked and then decided on what we thought was the best machine in the class of machines we looked at. We then looked at the power and decided to go with a 50W machine due to the thickness of wood we wanted to cut. We did not get air assist as the rep as well as others said that if we were going to cut wood, not acrylic it would not be needed. The air assist can be added later if needed. I cut 1/8" acrylic and have no trouble just like I was told. I have not tried 1/4" but was told I would want air assist at that time. We did not get the rotary attachment as my boxes are flat. Now we are thinking about laser engraving my lathe boxes. Again, we can add the rotary attachment. We decided to get the vector cutting table up front since we will be doing a lot of cutting and wanted the best setup for that. We also did not go with the dual lense as we felt the speed of our machine was fast enough.

One thing we did that I would recommend to you and others is the take some of YOUR material to the demo and see how it cuts. We took every kind of wood we use and in the thicknesses we use. I just asked that a square be cut out from it. Also the machine we saw our demo on was the exact model and power we bought. How lucky for us!

I also liked how our machine build and the ability ot remove/replace the laser assembly. It is just so quick and easy. The driver that comes with it is not as good at Photograv, but close, so close that I didn't buy Photograv. The guarantee that the laser output will exceed the rated power for 15 months is a nice plus. Our 50W is producing ~79 watts out of the box.

I said after we wrote the check that we should have gotten a loarger table machine...... So far I still feel that way but I have not yet wanted to put a larger item in than will fit with lots of room around it.

One day I hope to add a second laser to the shop.

Make sure you at least talk to all of the vendors before spending that money.

Bruce Volden
01-18-2006, 5:19 PM
Jon


I started out with a 25W machine and was happy with it! I have 2-25W and 1-35W machines now. Can't say I'd like anything BIGGER wattage- wise. I have seen some exquisite TRUE 3D engraving done with a 100W machine, that would be nice however, the programming involved doesn't appeal to me. My advice would be, instead of more power----more table.
It's nice to fit a pane of gun cabinet glass into the machine (with out-feed roller) and be able to make a customers day! Speed is, in my opinion, a gimmick. What good is a servo traveling 10000000 inches per second when you need dwell time for the laser to work it's magic over an item??
Just some ramblin' thoughts~~~~one thing 'tho, you will enjoy owning one!!!!


Bruce

Glenn Corser
01-18-2006, 6:49 PM
I started down the track you are on last year. My son and I bought a used laser from Rob Bosworth at ACCESS Business Solutions www.usedlasers.com (http://www.usedlasers.com) and it has worked out real well for us. We initially got a used 35W Epilog that had been refurbished by Epilog - it had a lot of issues and Rob traded it out at no cost (even paid shipping) for a 60W Universal. Mike MacKenzie helped us with some our initial settings and we have been running fine ever since. We do a bunch of Xmas stuff, marble pictures, and acrylic promotional items. The amount we sell is directly related to the amount of time we spend marketing and kicking over rocks. Since we both have day jobs as engineers marketing time goes up and down - I look at it as being paid while I learn.

Keith Outten
01-18-2006, 7:20 PM
I have to say that after 3 years of engraving I rarely need more power (35 watts) but often need a larger cabinet. There have been lots of jobs I had to pass on because my 12" by 24" cabinet would not accomodate the piece. Honestly I wish my cabinet had pass-thru doors, it might not solve many issues but it would be an improvement.

Last week for the first time I removed the front panel to engrave a large glass sign. The area of interest was at the top of the glass and it worked rather well as I used a camera tripod to support the bottom of the glass that was hanging off of the engraving table. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get the job done sometimes.....

.

Dave Fifield
01-18-2006, 8:16 PM
Check out the Engraver's Journal 2005 Laser Buyers Guide at http://www.engraversjournal.com/charts05

I found this to be a very useful roundup of what's available.

Cheers,
Dave Fifield

Jon Eckardt
01-18-2006, 9:26 PM
45 watts is plenty for engraving wood: there's a lot of us making do with 25-30 (making that speed/power tradeoff). If you're planning on a lot of cutting, you may want to go ahead and factor in the price of air assist.

And unless you're planning on engraving whole table tops or something like that, most machines in that power range are big enough to handle the stuff you're talking about.

Thanks for your input. It looks like I got a few hits on my ? I've got some info to absorb!
Thanks again, more questions to follow I'm sure!:)

Michael McDuffie
01-19-2006, 1:18 PM
I've never had a problem engraving wood with my 70W Epilog Legend 24 but here are some scary numbers.

$29,995.00 as shipped.

$59,700.00 at end of lease.

Less than $12,000.00 total billed over 5 years.

Lasers can be a very expensive hobby.

Michael

Joe Pelonio
01-19-2006, 2:42 PM
One other suggestion, there's a list of laser owners on this forum. See if any of us are close to you then PM and make arrangements to visit anyone that is willing to give you a little demo using real work. If there is more than one you might even be able to compare brands. As Michael
says in his "scary numbers" post it is expensive, of course some people spend more than that on their hobbies.

George M. Perzel
01-20-2006, 7:04 AM
Hi Jon;
I do primarily woodworking projects with my 60 watt LaserPro (Pinnacle). Check out www.laserarts.net for ideas. If your primary objective is working with wood,:
1. Get the highest power laser you can afford-you won't regret it
2. Definitely get an air assist system but do it yourself-don't buy the laser vendors system. Most often an accessory ripoff.
3. Don't buy a cutting table-very practical ones can be easily made for less than $50. Will email you instructions if you wish. All laser vendors should be sued for prices charged for cutting tables-biggest ripoff since they raised the price on cornflakes.
4. Make your own exhaust system- don't need more than 300cfm for most lasers unless your venting path goes through East Jesus.
5. Don't buy the rotating attachment unless you plan on doing a lot of glassware/mugs/and baseball bats. Most people think they will but they don't.
6. Standard lens is 2" focus- don't need anything else to start.
7. Experiment and document your results in a log book. Don't be surprised if you get different results with the same type of wood. Wood varies in density, moisture content, cellular structure-even among same species.
8. Keep your system clean, but don't get crazy about it. I recommend cleaning mirrors after each 8 hours of operation, rollers once a day if you're cutting/engraving wood.
9. Spend at least 3 hours reading past posts on this site related to startups and first time laser purchasers- lots of good info and advice from those who have been there.

Good Luck

Keith Outten
01-20-2006, 8:05 AM
George,

How about sharing a picture of your cutting table? I agree that they are way overpriced and rarely accurate. Given the number of talented people we have here maybe we can combine our efforts and produce the perfect vector table and do it inexpensively.

It would be a learning experience for the newcomers so they could understand why vector tables are such a big deal and to learn why they should build their own or have someone build it for them if they don't have the capability.

.

George M. Perzel
01-20-2006, 11:17 AM
Hi Keith;
Here's a couple of pics of the table I've been using for almost 3 years. Really not much high tech here. Frame is alum angle on three sides-back is open to allow venting. Center is 1/2" eggcrate aluminum grid salvaged from an air conditioning vent cover but can also be found in light grids. Aluminum strips at top and left side are cheap alum, rulers (numbers have disappeared after power washing). They are loosely fastened as I can slip thin material/veneer underneath them to help hold flat-normally the weight is enough to keep the material down. Total cost?- about $30 plus an hours time.
I will finish plans for version 2 which will have upper left corner at true home position (now offset 1" each way), steel hold down strips to add a little more weight, and variable height adjustment for bottom right corner to allow fine tuning level.

Jim Healy
01-29-2006, 8:00 PM
I am currently researching what types of laser machines are available as I am considering starting a home business doing laser woodworking. I have looked into the EPILOGLASER and it looks pretty good, but I'm new to this.
Any inputs from the experienced would be very helpful.:)
Thanks,
jon

Jon -
I am a woodworker, I make wood floor medallions and am using an Epilog EX32 with 125 watts - I do some engraving, but mostly cutting. There really is a LOT to talk about here, are you looking to do cutting, how thick. What is your dimensional tolerance? How thick is the material your looking at cutting. Wood species matter, any thoughts on this. If your really creative, I have some great thoughts you could put into play. Send me an email, I'll send you my Phone #. jrhealy13@msn.com

Mark Mullis
01-29-2006, 10:09 PM
Hello Jon, I had considered doing wood inlays for floors if I ever get a laser. I thought most of them were veneer. How thick of inlay can you cut with 125 watts?

Keith Outten
01-29-2006, 10:49 PM
Jon,

We have an Epilog representative that is a Member of The Creek. I'm sure he would be very helpfull answering any questions you might have concerning their product line. There is a Universal Laser dealer in Fredricksburg Virginia who is a very nice guy and has helped lots of people who are shopping. I don't envy you your selection, purchasing a laser engraver can be an absolutely nerve racking experience as there are so many options to consider and the price range is high to higher :)

Laser Engravers are great machines, you will definately enjoy your new business venture.

Keith

.

Roy Brewer
01-30-2006, 1:30 PM
I have looked into the EPILOGLASER and it looks pretty good, but I'm new to this.

Jon,

I suspect I'm the Epilog rep to whom Keith referred. I'm sure you've spoken with your area distributor, but if you have any specific Epilog questions/details/comparisons from an "uninvolved" party, I'd be glad to supply them.

Ken Frisby
01-30-2006, 2:58 PM
Hi Keith,

I have the (old) epilog cutting grid for my 24tt that left tick marks on acrlic when cutting. To fix the problem I made a simple one that uses 1/4" acrylic for the base and wooden toy wheel axels for the stand offs. I made it 12"x12" and the holes for the wheel axels are on 1" center that I used the laser to cut. It's amazing that epilog makes a new table now that looks like the one I made 14 months ago.

Keith Outten
01-30-2006, 5:28 PM
Ken,

How about a couple of pictures? My reason for asking is because I am thinking of building my own table and I am looking for ideas. Combining the best of everyones designs might make for an awesome table. I own a CNC router so I can do some accurate machining and drilling so the manufacturing part I can do in house. I'm not asking anyone to share any trade secrets.

Keith Outten
01-30-2006, 5:37 PM
Jon,

Roy will surely provide the straight skinny on Epilog machines and their capability. I'm pretty sure Roy has been around since they were holding laser tubes with plyers to engrave plaques :)

I just remembered we also have an Epilog Sales VP who belongs to SMC so there is plenty of information and talent. Ed Lang just got his Universal Laser, you can get a new owner prospective from Ed, he lives in the sticks but I think they have phones now :)

Ken Frisby
01-30-2006, 7:52 PM
Keith,

This gives me an excuse to make some changes to the first design. I'll start the new design tonight and take some pictures and do a write up, I should have it done in a couple of days.

Jim A. Walters
01-31-2006, 9:48 AM
Ken,

How about a couple of pictures? I'm not asking anyone to share any trade secrets.

Keith,

My Pinnacle M-Series came with a cutting grid that was machined aluminum with 1/16" holes drilled on 1" centers w/ 1" long roll pins pressed into the holes. I really didn't like it. Sometimes when I was cutting a piece smaller than 2", the part would fall off the pin, sticking up and the laser would either hit it, or scratch the part. I pulled all the pins and use the good old egg crate lighting grate. I don't do much cutting of clear material to worry about the marks left on the back after cutting. If I need to cut clear in the future, I might have my brother use his CNC to drill more pin holes so the pins are on 1/2" or 1/4" center. That might help a lot.

Jerry Allen
01-31-2006, 11:18 AM
I too have an aluminum plate with roll pins. It's very well made and is advertised for larger stuff. To compensate when cutting small I usually just put something on top of it like scrap from cutouts on other projects.

Here is and idea for a cheap and effective cutting table:
Use a piece of 1/2" MDF and 1/4" untempered Masonite (or equivalent) as required by table size.
Create and array in Corel with staggered lines of .06 holes. Starting in the upper left hand corner, make the pattern on 1/2" centers in an area about 6"x6" (or whatever you want). In the rest of the field, make the spacing on 1" centers, staggered also.
Cut the holes into the Masonite. Press blued 1 1/4" drywall nails into the masonite. Laminate the Masonite to the MDF making sure that whatever you use for glue does not affect the flatness. Enjoy.

Bruce Larson
02-04-2006, 6:40 PM
I cut a lot of acrylic and I have been using the following cheap, quick, down and dirty solution for the marking problem. I take some .020 aluminum I have lying around and form a simple channel shape with 1/2" legs and various widths and lengths to suit.
Then I shift them around with the legs of the channel facing upwards, as needed to support the part, and to date it has worked OK. I have not seen any significant marking from the .020 thin legs of the channels on the acrylic products I have been doing. Just my .02 worth.

Keith Outten
02-04-2006, 8:58 PM
Bruce,

I have kind of a makeshift technique I use somethimes for cutting thin stuff like laser lights. I cut a 12" by 24" piece of Corian and tape thin stuff to it for cutting and engraving. I sometimes use double sided tape to keep the small pieces from flying and ending up in the dust collector hose and forty yards behind my shop. It's a bit crude I guess but effective for some jobs.

.