Assaf Oppenheimer
02-10-2022, 4:20 AM
Hi folks.
I've been thinking about posting a review for a while now and the recent inquiry made me think it is appropriate. I have used both but I would not call them veteran tools in my arsenal. considered this a beginners review that might help in tool purchase.
Backstory (TLDR - you can skip this paragraph)
Living in Israel it can be hard to get tools and impossible to try them out first. I am self taught and had some really bad experiences with vintage tools in shabby condition that gave me the philosophy that since I don't have an experienced teacher to show me if the problem is me or the tool, it is easier to buy quality and assume the problem is me. When I bought a standard fret saw I spent a day snapping blades and the tension was horrible. I decided it was time for a decent fret saw. I was going to buy the Knew concepts fret saw when I saw that Blue Spruce had created one of their own. For me, justifying the very high cost of the saw lay in the adapter. When you buy the coping saw you can add an adapter for fret saw blades. I figured the Blue Spruce would give me a better saw with both capabilities for roughly the price of 2 knew concept saws (fret and coping). I waited until a friend was going to be visiting from the US and made an order (Cocobolo handles are CITES and can't be sold internationally). Once I got the saw I realized it was a beautifully made, premium tool. it was also heavy and had a shallow depth of cut. when I used it I realized that the adapter kit would add a lot of bulk and unnecessary weight so I compared it to the Knew concepts and ordered one online. I've used both for a few weeks and can form a reasonable review on purchase related decision making. to those of you who advocate a standard fret saw is good enough - you are probably right. but after throwing away half a dozen blades to gain a 2 inch cut, I don't regret giving it away. This is my hobby and there is no reason to intentionally make the experience less pleasant. Anyway, here is my review.
The Saws
473581
The Fret saw is a Knew Concepts Mk IV with 5" depth of cut with lever tension and swivel blade clamps. According to the website it weighs 228.3g (8.05oz). I paid $100.45 + tax and shipping.
The Coping saw is a Blue Spruce Ultimate Coping saw with silver clear anodized body, Cocobolo handle and black hardware. According to my kitchen scale, without the blade it weighs 231g (8.15oz). According to my ruler it has a maximum depth of cut of 3-3/16". I paid $340 + tax and shipping.
The Coping saw:
The Tensioning method is relatively simple. I loosen the handle and the equivalent black knob (both counterclockwise) on the outer side (both marked with red arrows). I can then tighten the inner knobs to adjust the tension. Once the blade is placed I tension both ends of the saw to there maximum, then tighten fully the outer screw and handle.
473583
To adjust the swivel you need to turn the round discs above the saw tensioning mechanism. when the discs are loose you can spin the thing like a top - it glides on silky smooth ball bearings. Retightening the swivel causes it to lock in predetermined positive stops (one every 45°).
Impression: Overall the saw is beautifully made. The customization process lets you chose one to your taste. If I could have a do over I would have changed the handle to Curly Maple (personal preference). The handling is very comfortable with the balance point on mine about 0.5" from the blade holder closest to the handle. The handle is Excellent and the grooving really helps with grip, and gives a proprioceptive feel of the saws alignment during the cut (especially useful when the saw is set up in free rotation mode). The Black hardware is his cheap, slippery plasticky thing that honestly feels like it belongs on a much cheaper tool. It all works but it feels too slippery to give a confident grip and lacks the feel I would expect on a premium tool. When I got the saw I was a bit disappointed in the shallow depth of cut. Blue Spruce doesn't advertise it in the description but there customer service is excellent so I am sure I could have gotten the information had I bothered to search for it.
The saw does tension well - much better than a standard German saw - but I do wish it could go tighter. I have mine tensioned to its maximum ability and it can give a low metallic ping when "strummed" but I also noticed a small amount of flex when in use or while applying light finger pressure. I can get my Knew Concepts fret saw significantly tighter - which I think is a bit ridiculous considering that pinned coping saw blades should offer much more leverage for tensioning then a fret saw. I don't think this would be a problem if you are considering buying the Blue Spruce Ultimate Fretsaw - you can always shorten a fretsaw blade.
The free rotation feature - The feature works and works well, I just am not convinced that it is a necessary feature. the ability to pivot the blade is crucial for sawing out areas that are out of reach of the maximum depth of cut (especially in such a small saw) but I think that locking it at a specific chosen angle helps by offering the spine of the tool as a visual guide for parallel even cuts. depending on the angle you are working, having it roll around can also make sawing a bit awkward.
The Fret Saw:
473584
There is a lot of information online on how to tension the thing including some excellent YouTube videos so I won't go into as much depth about it. Sufficient to say that I really like the lever tensioning mechanism. it allows me to set a standard length blade to the tension I want and re-tension it to the exact settings when I want to swap the blade or store it with the blade out of tension. By design the saw can also be over tensioned, which I think is a plus: It give the control over to the craftsman. If you watch the official videos on YouTube they show you how to recognize over tensioning and avoid damage to the blade or saw (I highly recommend when first buying!). The Balance point for my saw is around the center of the blade. This makes the Blue Spruce coping saw significantly more comfortable to handle. Speaking of handles, the Knew concepts handle leaves a lot to be desired. It is small, too light and compared to the Blue Spruce, a joke. Worth mentioning that a lot of folks modify theres, either buy making one in the shop, buying a foam cover made by Knew Concepts or ordering a third party handle. The combination of small handle size distant balance point make for a *relatively* poorer sawing experience. In terms of aesthetics: well, I hope you're a fan of the color red. There is no built in customization options for Knew Concepts and what you see is what you get. Personally I'm not.
The mechanism that holds on to the blade is based on 2 screws per a blade tip. a grub screw that you need to adjust for initial set up, and opposite to it a thumb screw to lock the blade in place. In essence you are locking the blade between the two screws and the reason for the grub screw is to allow centering of the blade within its hole. Locking the blade significantly off center weakens its holding power. I haven't seen a fret saw with such a feature but if I were to design one I would look into a collet locking system. Just a though.
The 5" frame feels very ridged. Based on my "feel", it has about the same amount of give as the Blue Spruce coping saw (which is significantly smaller). The Blade also has rotating feature with stops every 45° but requires detensioning the blade prior to rotation. Functionally the mechanism is excellent and for what I use it, more than enough to meet my requirements.
Summary:
Both Saws are really miles ahead of the standard cheap ones in the market.
The Blue Spruce Coping saw offers superior balance and mostly premium feel in an esthetically customizable design it also costs around 3 times the price of the Knew Concepts saw (which itself is sold at a premium tool price). While the handle is top notch I am not sure that the hardware and frame are finished to a level I would call premium. I own and love various chisels and a mallet from Blue Spruce. They all feel significantly better finished from a holistic point of view. The rotating mechanism is novel and works well, but I'm not sure it is a must have feature - locking the blade at specific intervals should be sufficient for most woodworking tasks. I do wish the Coping saw came with a deeper depth of cut. The saw provides sufficient tension for comfortable use, but I wish it could be tensioned a bit more.
The Knew Concepts Fret saw is a great tool with the superior tensioning mechanism (keep in mind that it is problematic to compare the tensioning of a fretsaw blade to a pinned coping saw blade). The pivoting 45° stops work well to meet my needs (mostly dovetails). I do think the blade holding mechanism could be improved on and the standard handle is really to small and light.
If I had a time machine I would probably buy both saws from Knew Concepts. I could get a deeper throat for the coping saw and with the price difference upgrade both handles and still saving significant money (I don't own a lathe... yet). Both saws are excellent and well above the "blame your tools for your work" standard. In the end the Blue Spruce Coping saw did not quite meet my expectations for the premium feel I get from most of their tools. The saw works very well but in my mind is not worth the hefty price tag.
I've been thinking about posting a review for a while now and the recent inquiry made me think it is appropriate. I have used both but I would not call them veteran tools in my arsenal. considered this a beginners review that might help in tool purchase.
Backstory (TLDR - you can skip this paragraph)
Living in Israel it can be hard to get tools and impossible to try them out first. I am self taught and had some really bad experiences with vintage tools in shabby condition that gave me the philosophy that since I don't have an experienced teacher to show me if the problem is me or the tool, it is easier to buy quality and assume the problem is me. When I bought a standard fret saw I spent a day snapping blades and the tension was horrible. I decided it was time for a decent fret saw. I was going to buy the Knew concepts fret saw when I saw that Blue Spruce had created one of their own. For me, justifying the very high cost of the saw lay in the adapter. When you buy the coping saw you can add an adapter for fret saw blades. I figured the Blue Spruce would give me a better saw with both capabilities for roughly the price of 2 knew concept saws (fret and coping). I waited until a friend was going to be visiting from the US and made an order (Cocobolo handles are CITES and can't be sold internationally). Once I got the saw I realized it was a beautifully made, premium tool. it was also heavy and had a shallow depth of cut. when I used it I realized that the adapter kit would add a lot of bulk and unnecessary weight so I compared it to the Knew concepts and ordered one online. I've used both for a few weeks and can form a reasonable review on purchase related decision making. to those of you who advocate a standard fret saw is good enough - you are probably right. but after throwing away half a dozen blades to gain a 2 inch cut, I don't regret giving it away. This is my hobby and there is no reason to intentionally make the experience less pleasant. Anyway, here is my review.
The Saws
473581
The Fret saw is a Knew Concepts Mk IV with 5" depth of cut with lever tension and swivel blade clamps. According to the website it weighs 228.3g (8.05oz). I paid $100.45 + tax and shipping.
The Coping saw is a Blue Spruce Ultimate Coping saw with silver clear anodized body, Cocobolo handle and black hardware. According to my kitchen scale, without the blade it weighs 231g (8.15oz). According to my ruler it has a maximum depth of cut of 3-3/16". I paid $340 + tax and shipping.
The Coping saw:
The Tensioning method is relatively simple. I loosen the handle and the equivalent black knob (both counterclockwise) on the outer side (both marked with red arrows). I can then tighten the inner knobs to adjust the tension. Once the blade is placed I tension both ends of the saw to there maximum, then tighten fully the outer screw and handle.
473583
To adjust the swivel you need to turn the round discs above the saw tensioning mechanism. when the discs are loose you can spin the thing like a top - it glides on silky smooth ball bearings. Retightening the swivel causes it to lock in predetermined positive stops (one every 45°).
Impression: Overall the saw is beautifully made. The customization process lets you chose one to your taste. If I could have a do over I would have changed the handle to Curly Maple (personal preference). The handling is very comfortable with the balance point on mine about 0.5" from the blade holder closest to the handle. The handle is Excellent and the grooving really helps with grip, and gives a proprioceptive feel of the saws alignment during the cut (especially useful when the saw is set up in free rotation mode). The Black hardware is his cheap, slippery plasticky thing that honestly feels like it belongs on a much cheaper tool. It all works but it feels too slippery to give a confident grip and lacks the feel I would expect on a premium tool. When I got the saw I was a bit disappointed in the shallow depth of cut. Blue Spruce doesn't advertise it in the description but there customer service is excellent so I am sure I could have gotten the information had I bothered to search for it.
The saw does tension well - much better than a standard German saw - but I do wish it could go tighter. I have mine tensioned to its maximum ability and it can give a low metallic ping when "strummed" but I also noticed a small amount of flex when in use or while applying light finger pressure. I can get my Knew Concepts fret saw significantly tighter - which I think is a bit ridiculous considering that pinned coping saw blades should offer much more leverage for tensioning then a fret saw. I don't think this would be a problem if you are considering buying the Blue Spruce Ultimate Fretsaw - you can always shorten a fretsaw blade.
The free rotation feature - The feature works and works well, I just am not convinced that it is a necessary feature. the ability to pivot the blade is crucial for sawing out areas that are out of reach of the maximum depth of cut (especially in such a small saw) but I think that locking it at a specific chosen angle helps by offering the spine of the tool as a visual guide for parallel even cuts. depending on the angle you are working, having it roll around can also make sawing a bit awkward.
The Fret Saw:
473584
There is a lot of information online on how to tension the thing including some excellent YouTube videos so I won't go into as much depth about it. Sufficient to say that I really like the lever tensioning mechanism. it allows me to set a standard length blade to the tension I want and re-tension it to the exact settings when I want to swap the blade or store it with the blade out of tension. By design the saw can also be over tensioned, which I think is a plus: It give the control over to the craftsman. If you watch the official videos on YouTube they show you how to recognize over tensioning and avoid damage to the blade or saw (I highly recommend when first buying!). The Balance point for my saw is around the center of the blade. This makes the Blue Spruce coping saw significantly more comfortable to handle. Speaking of handles, the Knew concepts handle leaves a lot to be desired. It is small, too light and compared to the Blue Spruce, a joke. Worth mentioning that a lot of folks modify theres, either buy making one in the shop, buying a foam cover made by Knew Concepts or ordering a third party handle. The combination of small handle size distant balance point make for a *relatively* poorer sawing experience. In terms of aesthetics: well, I hope you're a fan of the color red. There is no built in customization options for Knew Concepts and what you see is what you get. Personally I'm not.
The mechanism that holds on to the blade is based on 2 screws per a blade tip. a grub screw that you need to adjust for initial set up, and opposite to it a thumb screw to lock the blade in place. In essence you are locking the blade between the two screws and the reason for the grub screw is to allow centering of the blade within its hole. Locking the blade significantly off center weakens its holding power. I haven't seen a fret saw with such a feature but if I were to design one I would look into a collet locking system. Just a though.
The 5" frame feels very ridged. Based on my "feel", it has about the same amount of give as the Blue Spruce coping saw (which is significantly smaller). The Blade also has rotating feature with stops every 45° but requires detensioning the blade prior to rotation. Functionally the mechanism is excellent and for what I use it, more than enough to meet my requirements.
Summary:
Both Saws are really miles ahead of the standard cheap ones in the market.
The Blue Spruce Coping saw offers superior balance and mostly premium feel in an esthetically customizable design it also costs around 3 times the price of the Knew Concepts saw (which itself is sold at a premium tool price). While the handle is top notch I am not sure that the hardware and frame are finished to a level I would call premium. I own and love various chisels and a mallet from Blue Spruce. They all feel significantly better finished from a holistic point of view. The rotating mechanism is novel and works well, but I'm not sure it is a must have feature - locking the blade at specific intervals should be sufficient for most woodworking tasks. I do wish the Coping saw came with a deeper depth of cut. The saw provides sufficient tension for comfortable use, but I wish it could be tensioned a bit more.
The Knew Concepts Fret saw is a great tool with the superior tensioning mechanism (keep in mind that it is problematic to compare the tensioning of a fretsaw blade to a pinned coping saw blade). The pivoting 45° stops work well to meet my needs (mostly dovetails). I do think the blade holding mechanism could be improved on and the standard handle is really to small and light.
If I had a time machine I would probably buy both saws from Knew Concepts. I could get a deeper throat for the coping saw and with the price difference upgrade both handles and still saving significant money (I don't own a lathe... yet). Both saws are excellent and well above the "blame your tools for your work" standard. In the end the Blue Spruce Coping saw did not quite meet my expectations for the premium feel I get from most of their tools. The saw works very well but in my mind is not worth the hefty price tag.