Jnats

[chuck van dyck]

I never know if Japanese hand tool stuff belongs here or not, but it seems like the best spot to stick a post like this.

So, I've fallen hard to Japanese steel. I guess it only makes sense that I've now called for natural Japanese water stones. Call me weird but I really enjoy sharpening, and all the nuances that can be found from different sharpening media. Oil stones and a strop, a stack diamond paper, water stones, they all produce a different edge and I'm interested in fully exploring that. I have a lot of sharping gear from 3m paper to translucent to kings and shaptons. I'm telling ya this so you can stop right now if you are interested in sharing your option on anything besides JAPANESE NATURAL STONES.

My experience with Jnats is pretty limited. A knife maker/studio mate loaned me a few, an aota, what I think is a suita, some corse stone, and another "fine" stone that is super muddy for creating kasumi on his knives.

The suita is pretty nice, feels like 8k or so and doesn't have a lot of slurry. The aoto doesn't seem fine enough to have much utility unless you have to sharpen on a Jnat, which I'm not looking to do. I still plan to sharpen on my Kings or diamond plates and then polish on a natural. I believe what I am looking for is a semi-soft fine stone. Which is an oxymoron in the world of synthetics, but my understanding is that is a thing in the world of Jnats. You can have a 8-10k equivalent stone that still produces a bit of slurry. I think this is the type of stone Toshio Odate writes about in his book.

Can anyone here help clear this up some? Any recommendations for a first finishing stone? I have mostly blue steel. My jointer has a white steel blade, other 3 and chisels are all blue. Not sure this matters. None of them are super budget. The most budget Japanese steel I own is a Katsusaburo block plane and its pretty sick. Again, not sure, but I think the question of steel quality matters here.

There are a lot of $100 or so options in the bay, but add 30 for shipping its gonna add up. Not quite ready to drop 300 or so on a stone, but I would if I know it would last the rest of my career. Suzuki-ya only has Tsushima in stock, which I think isn't quite what I want and Hida's offerings are a little out of my price range, but perhaps I could be talked into it.

Any Jnat dealers lurking out there? I've been messaging with some sellers on eBay but the language barrier has been a little tough and hasn't left me super confident.

Thank ye for any advice. I have poured over the relevant conversations using the search feature, and still am coming up a bit short....

[Charles Guest]

I'm not sure what the Japanese are best at -- marketing, or wood craftsmanship. Close to a toss-up.

[Mark Rainey]

I'm not sure what the Japanese are best at -- marketing, or wood craftsmanship. Close to a toss-up.

Always appreciate your wisdom Charles.

[Charles Guest]

Always appreciate your wisdom Charles.

More ways to get screwed than Stormy Daniels.

[chuck van dyck]

Everyone, give it up for the troll squad! Thanks guys!

[Mark Rainey]

Everyone, give it up for the troll squad! Thanks guys!

Chuck, I am sorry if I offended you. I have read a bit about Japanese stones and admit I am a bit intrigued. Some are outrageously expensive and there are some very talented woodworkers on this site who do not see the need for them. I respect your interest in this specialty item and hopefully some forum members will add their wisdom Mark

[Eric Rathhaus]

Chuck you might go to David Weavers youtube channel and ask him. He's done extensive experimentation with all kinds of stones including jnats.

[Charles Guest]

Everyone, give it up for the troll squad! Thanks guys!

Just joking, sort of. Don't take it personally. That said if you find a reliable, honest supplier do post contact information. When the Japanese tool craze got underway in the 1980s, people didn't know what they were buying and inferior tools and supplies were often substituted. Even U.S. sellers who were supposed to know the business were getting hoodwinked. I knew a guy back then who took some kit to Japan on a trip to work with a Japanese craftsman and he was not so politely told that he had been royally screwed over. The guy would not let him use the tools he'd bought, and he'd spent a not insignificant amount of money on them.

I can stand a whole lot, but getting bent over isn't one of them.

[chuck van dyck]

Ha! No offense taken. But snark begets snark.

I get that most people aren’t interested in spending so much on a stone. I can try and explain my fascination, but I’m not sure it matters. What matters is deriving enjoyment from your past times.

Charles, I think you missed my point. I stated that I love Japanese steel, not woodworking. I love that there is a multigenerational forge out there, with a craftsman down in the smithing pit making these beautiful tools. I love that the soft steel can often be repurposes from old temples and other structures.

I really love the idea of sharpening with a millennia old piece of volcanic ash, that has become hard enough to put a fine edge on my tools. The right stone will easily the rest of my career. I’m 37 and a full time woodworker. A plane has never made me a dollar, but they are my most valued tools. My df500 and tablesaw make me $$ everyday.

Anyways, what is a few hundred dollars spread over the next 40 years? In so far, I just really enjoy using them. Like I said, I have a collection of most sharpening media, and I truly enjoy putting nice edges my tools. Just a natural progression.

Maybe a bad analogy, but when I started fishing years ago, I caught tons of trout on a $30 Eagleclaw. Now I have a couple thousand dollars worth of fishing gear and fly tying materials. Doesn’t work any better than my eagleclaw did with a wooly bugger fly, but I enjoy the gear, so what. Let me live!

[chuck van dyck]

Take it back, I recently scribed this backsplash and return with a $5 Stanley 9 1/2. Also used it to remove a 1/4” of drywall. Sharpened with a 1200 grit DMT combo. Made me a few bucks.

473642

[Luke Dupont]

I'm intrigued by Jnats as well.

I've only used a variety of cheap ones that I picked up here in places like home centers and tokyu hands -- not anything true Jnat afficionados would advocate for, but they are nice.

I have frequently looked at Jnats on Japanese auction sites, and even after a fair bit of research, concluded that I have no idea what I'm looking at or how to tell what is or isn't a quality stone. It has occurred to me to buy a few just for fun and see what I get. Buying stones in Japan is sure to be a bit less expensive, because you don't have to pay a lot for overseas shipping at least.

It may be a good idea to get in touch with someone who knows people in the business. That, or just have fun trying random stones on auction sites.

I'm more interested in nice middle stones as I like to do much of my sharpening on naturals, and not just finish on them. But I'm odd like that.

Another person you might check out, whom I've learned a lot about Jnats from (and who sells them, I know) is Keith V. Johnson. He's a straight razor guy mostly, but there's a ton of great info on his channel as well, and I'm sure he could point you in the right direction if you contacted him.

Another person to contact would be Stan Convington, who used to frequent these forums. He doesn't seem to anymore, but you can find his website if you search for it.

[chuck van dyck]

I'm intrigued by Jnats as well.

I've only used a variety of cheap ones that I picked up here in places like home centers and tokyu hands -- not anything true Jnat afficionados would advocate for, but they are nice.

I have frequently looked at Jnats on Japanese auction sites, and even after a fair bit of research, concluded that I have no idea what I'm looking at or how to tell what is or isn't a quality stone. It has occurred to me to buy a few just for fun and see what I get. Buying stones in Japan is sure to be a bit less expensive, because you don't have to pay a lot for overseas shipping at least.

It may be a good idea to get in touch with someone who knows people in the business. That, or just have fun trying random stones on auction sites.

I'm more interested in nice middle stones as I like to do much of my sharpening on naturals, and not just finish on them. But I'm odd like that.

Another person you might check out, whom I've learned a lot about Jnats from (and who sells them, I know) is Keith V. Johnson. He's a straight razor guy mostly, but there's a ton of great info on his channel as well, and I'm sure he could point you in the right direction if you contacted him.

Another person to contact would be Stan Convington, who used to frequent these forums. He doesn't seem to anymore, but you can find his website if you search for it.

thanks for the info Luke. i was hoping you would respond. i agree, i'm not willing to take a bet on an auction site seller. i am going to give Suzuki-ya a caller later this evening and i will report back if anyone is interested. after an email they asked to speak on the phone, as the nuances of the stones are too hard to describe in an email.

would you be willing to share a photo of the stones you found at Tokyo Hands? i love that store btw, my wife and i visited Nippon for 2 weeks in 2019. my band will be playing a few shows in SF not to far from Japantown in June. i'm hoping to come across something in the hardware stores there.

my fear is that the ebay sellers are hocking hardware store stones for premium stone prices. it would be nice to have some context from a trusted source, ie you, or others here.

i read through Stan and Brian's old discussions on this board from a decade or so ago, was informative, but not totally clarifying.

i'm looking for a utility finishing stone. i won't be entering Kez competitions anytime soon, but i'm always looking to improve upon a planed finish.