Advice milling a large batch of rough redwood into tongue and groove boards

[John Schiesser]

So I have an upcoming fence build and I am planning on buying rough sawn 8 foot 1x6 redwood rather the finished tongue and groove boards. I save about $13 a board and the first phase alone is 150 boards. So the cost saving are substantial. I have a decent planer and table saw but no jointer. My main concern is getting that first straight edge on boards. I don't want to do anything that requires me to reclamp or manually set a straight edge for each board. It would take forever. I am thinking possible put some sort of foot on the end of an 8 foot level and then push it with the board thru the table saw but not have them be attached. Just held against one another with a feather board.

Here is the order of operations I am planning on.

1) Plane board smooth on both sides.
2) Put straight edge on side 1
3) Put straight edge on side 2
4) Router groove in on side.
5) Route tongue on other side.

I have done something similar when I built the fence shown in the attached photo. I milled all the fence boards but they were shorter and no T&G. The posts and rails came already milled. I am installing a router lift in my table saw and putting an outfeed on.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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[Rod Sheridan]

With the money you’re saving take the boards to someone with a 4 sided molder.

Regards, Rod

[Kevin Jenness]

Rod has a good point. If you want to do it yourself there are a number of diy ripping jigs for the tablesaw. I used the one shown here in post #27 https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?282267-Straight-Line-Rip-on-Tablesaw-w-Feeders/page2 designed by Tage Frid before I had a sliding saw.

The second photo is a good reminder that excellent work can be produced with modest equipment. The most productive woodworking tool is between our ears.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Why T&G and not shiplap?

I might be thinking wrong, but, wouldn't shiplap eliminate one cutting operation since one edge is completely hidden?

[Brian Tymchak]

With the money you’re saving take the boards to someone with a 4 sided molder.

Regards, Rod

I don't have experience with a 4 sided molder. Will it mill straight edges and the t&g on rough lumber in the same pass?

[Bradley Gray]

If the picture you posted is what you plan to build why do you need T&G?

[Mel Fulks]

I don't have experience with a 4 sided molder. Will it mill straight edges and the t&g on rough lumber in the same pass?

It will if the set-up is done by someone competent. I’ve seen guys run a thousand feet , and still be tweaking the moulder on the last
couple of pieces.

[Richard Coers]

Fence boards seasonal move just like furniture stock. Fitting it up tightly with a tongue and groove will present some big issues when the wood swells in the rain. Also, I've found that fast growth redwood sapwood won't last more than 5 years in the weather. Nothing like the old growth trees from the past. By the way, all your concerns about machining time are why the machined stock is the price it is.

[John Schiesser]

With the money you’re saving take the boards to someone with a 4 sided molder. Regards, Rod
I wouldn't even know where to find someone capable of doing that but I appreciate the suggestion.


Rod has a good point. If you want to do it yourself there are a number of diy ripping jigs for the tablesaw. I used the one shown here in post #27 https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?282267-Straight-Line-Rip-on-Tablesaw-w-Feeders/page2 designed by Tage Frid before I had a sliding saw.

The second photo is a good reminder that excellent work can be produced with modest equipment. The most productive woodworking tool is between our ears.
This is good. I think I could incorporate this into my plan.


Why T&G and not shiplap?

I might be thinking wrong, but, wouldn't shiplap eliminate one cutting operation since one edge is completely hidden?
I don't think it would eliminate an operation because both sides would need to be milled still. The idea behind T&G is to eliminate warping of the boards.


If the picture you posted is what you plan to build why do you need T&G?
That was just a picture of fence I completed previously. Here is rough model of the fence I am building now.
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[Mel Fulks]

Best way to run tongue and groove is on a shaper. Do not flip the boards , run top first . Then the bottom. I “climbcut “. Mark which side is
the face.

[John Schiesser]

Mel,
I could probably pick up a shaper off craigslist but I don't really have room for my shop. Am I not going to be able to efficiently do this with 3 hp router?

[John Schiesser]

Fence boards seasonal move just like furniture stock. Fitting it up tightly with a tongue and groove will present some big issues when the wood swells in the rain. Also, I've found that fast growth redwood sapwood won't last more than 5 years in the weather. Nothing like the old growth trees from the past. By the way, all your concerns about machining time are why the machined stock is the price it is.

Richard, you bring up a good point but the other reason I am going with the rough is that it is all heart wood. The premilled stuff is about 50% sap wood.

What do you suggest?

[Mel Fulks]

You could do it with router. Sorry, somehow I thought you were gonna use a shaper. For a red wood fence I would favor ship-lap ,not tongue
and groove . Red wood is brittle ,and after milling the stuff will move . Most will be to tight as the grooves will tend to close up some.

[Bill Dufour]

Save yourself some time and excess handling of the lumber. Mill tongues on both sides of half the boards and grooves on the other boards.
BILL D

[Bill Dufour]

I used a vee grove set from Grizzly on my shaper. Mark top side with chalk as you run them then match that side out on assembly so things line up well. Chalk can be washed off before stain.
Bill D

[Bradley Gray]

What about doing spline and groove? I would try a couple pieces just cutting a groove without planing/ jointing/ripping.

[John Schiesser]

You could do it with router. Sorry, somehow I thought you were gonna use a shaper. For a red wood fence I would favor ship-lap ,not tongue
and groove . Red wood is brittle ,and after milling the stuff will move . Most will be to tight as the grooves will tend to close up some.

Mel, I am no opposed to that but what about warping? The purposed behind T&G was to keep the faces co planer. Also what type of bit would you use for shiplap? Most verticals will be spaced at about 4 feet.


I used a vee grove set from Grizzly on my shaper. Mark top side with chalk as you run them then match that side out on assembly so things line up well. Chalk can be washed off before stain.
Bill D Something like this? Rockler Edge V-Groove Router Bits - 1/2" Shank (https://www.rockler.com/edge-v-groove-bit-1-2-shank?country=US&sid=V91023&msclkid=00df8bf1eed01a07b7c1e9f487238d6e&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NX_DSA%20PageFeed_Margin%20A&utm_term=rockler&utm_content=Margin%20A) For reverence this is the profile i was hoping for but i coud always do a second pass to break the other edges.
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What about doing spline and groove? I would try a couple pieces just cutting a groove without planing/ jointing/ripping. Bradley, spline and groove? Sorry not sure I follow. Pic?

Everyone thank you for your responses and insight.

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't have experience with a 4 sided molder. Will it mill straight edges and the t&g on rough lumber in the same pass?

Yes……Regards, Rod

[Patrick Kane]

I made my own shiplap for a timber frame shed roof and floor. One, are you sure its that much of a price difference? I did mine out of 6/4 green hemlock, which was $0.50 a bdft. The price for shiplap #2 cedar was maybe $1.25 a linear foot. I can tell you if i were to do it over again i would have purchased the pre-milled cedar and been done with it. Tons of time to process the rough lumber into what you want to do. And that is with a 5hp 20" planer and 5.5hp shaper with power feeder. But, your prices are different and $2,000 is $2,000. I think for me, the difference was like $500. $500 for a solid weekend a half of my time, which was a poor value proposition to me. The best advice is probably to find a moulder. Most shops will charge you $100-150/hr and a moulder will process that material in an hour. If you cant or wont do that, then i do think this is worth looking for a used shaper with a rebate cutterhead. Resell it when you are done to recoup your costs. A shiplap joint is a corresponding rebate on each edge. You could do it with a dado stack in the table saw, or a groover/rebate head in the shaper.

My 5 year old fence is very similar design with horizontal members in the same plane. My post spacing is 8', and they are within 1/4"-1/2" of one another. If your post spacing is 4', then your horizontal boards are going to be 1/8"+/- from one another in the vertical plane. 1/8" difference is difficult to discern, in my opinion. Perhaps its not worth the joinery for a fence.

[Bradley Gray]

You could groove both edges with a dado stack on your table saw. Flip end for end so the same face rides against the fence. Fence side goes against the posts. I would make the fit loose. Cut to length first if you can. If you buy extra you can avoid knots and serious defects.
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[Bill Dufour]

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-shaper-cutter-90-v-groove-3-4-bore/c2087

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-shaper-cutter-90-bevel-v-groove-3-4-bore/c2313

Bill D

[John Schiesser]

.....Perhaps its not worth the joinery for a fence.

I built the fence pictured above with a fair amount of joinery, dados, rabbets, & dominoes. That thing is rock solid but my three weekend project turned into a six month project. :D

I save about $13 a board ($30 vs $17) and the the rough $17 boards are all heartwood vs the $30 which looked to be about 60% sap wood.

[Eric Schmid]

It might have been mentioned, but you can straight edge boards with a router and offset fences. I have run plenty of T&G for gates. It’s a lot of work and for as many feet as a fence requires I’d be looking for another option…unless it’s a really short run of fence. One of the advantages of good cedar and redwood is that they tend to stay relatively flat. Sapwood and heart center, not so much.

[Mitch schiffer]

Have you checked with the lumber yard you are getting the wood from to see if they offer a straight line rip as a service? Several in my area do.

[Scott T Smith]

I don't have experience with a 4 sided molder. Will it mill straight edges and the t&g on rough lumber in the same pass?

I own a 6 head moulder and we make a lot of T&G. Typically we will pre-size the moulder blanks by using either a 2 blade edger or a straight line rip saw before running through the moulder.

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The moulder will plane both surfaces, and put the T&G on both edges in a single pass.

What you're talking about doing is a LOT of work - especially using a router and table saw.

[Eric Anderson]

With the design presented, it looks like a T&G might tend to trap water in the grooves and lead to early failure. Built a gate with a T&G panel about 10 years ago and it probably is going to have issues eventually. But it was generally built with left over material as a proof of concept and not designed to last forever.

I did a similar T&G for the soffit outside the front and back doors of my house, but these see no liquid water as they are well protected. Used the T&G so the pieces could move (and also installed with a 1/8" reveal between boards leaving 1/8" of room in each groove for movement. 4 years later and still looks like it was installed yesterday.