24" Invicta planer - yay/nay?

[Jonathan Jung]

I've got a line on a 1992 Invicta / Delta RC-63N 24" planer, which should have the helical head as shown in the original selling brochure. I haven't seen it in person, it is military surplus, a few hours from me, and currently going for very very cheaply. Although this is risking having you all as my competitors in bidding :) I will share the link:

https://www.govplanet.com/jsp/s/item/5904662

Knowing military shops and how they use and abuse stuff (I've personally been in them and my gosh the idiots that get in there and mess stuff up), I am wondering if I should be concerned primarily about sourcing any replacement parts when needed. I appreciate being able to get SCM parts for my older SCMI machine, but will I have the same luxury with the Delta / Invicta machines?

Can anyone confirm if it has a segmented infeed feed roller?

I'd probably be happier long-term with an older Oliver to match my 166 jointer or a SCMI to match my wide belt sander, but this is my living so $ does matter.

Thanks you all and good luck in case you decide to bid against me ;)

cheers

[Phillip Mitchell]

I don’t know about segmented infeed roller or not, but I would go and look at the unit in person with a fine toothed comb before bidding in this case. You might also confirm that it does actually have a helical cutterhead. If so, you should do some research to see if replacement inserts are proprietary to that specific head and if so, are they still available and what you have to go through to get them. There is no OEM support for invicta stuff to my knowledge. I looked at a clapped out RC-51 a handful of years back and would have bought it had it not been so neglected. It’s a stout machine, though the bed raise and lower mechanism on the cable has a weak point that tends to fail. Fixable but annoying to deal with. I’m sure it will come up somewhere if you search for RC-63/51.

If the planer is just sitting out in the weather like that, you could expect some of the bearings to be corroded and possibly need pulling and replacing or at least pulling apart and cleaning. Also would be suspect of the bed rollers and if they are corroded...why do people leave machinery outdoors !?

Lastly, you are getting factory support/parts for your older SCMi machines? What age are your SCMI machines? I have (3) late 70s, early 80s era SCM / L’invincibile machines and I can hear them rolling their eyes and laughing at me over the phone every time I call and inquire about any spare parts at all.

I would not expect that price to stay low once the auction begins to come closer to ending. Some will be scared off by the rust, but not much these days in terms of WW machinery is staying under the radar, given how backlogged and $$ the new machines have become.

[Bill Space]

My first thought was it looks like it is/was sitting outside when that photo was taken.

Might have been outside in the weather for who knows how long at this point. Heard over the years that government equipment up for auction often is left outside...

Just a thought.

Edit: I see Phillip had similar thoughts about the weather as I was typing...

[Jared Sankovich]

None of the invicta planers had segmented infeed. That 63n has a Newman quiet head (but it Needs an onboard knife grinder to function) if you need new inserts they are about $30 each (90 inserts total) it's also 15hp if I recall vs the 10hp on the straight knife heads.

[Bill Space]

Still might be worth a lucky purchase for a hundred bucks or so...LOL...but you never know...until after the fact...

[Bill Dufour]

Machine tools the government will drain oil, wash off grease and oil then sit in rain so all gearing can rust solid. They can not allow oil to drip onto the ground. Precision sliding surfaces get rusted and need to be taken apart and cleaned before trying to slide them. Things like the table raise lower slides, gibs etc.
Bolts holding in knives will be rusty. Jut allow a loot of time for derusting before touching a screw or bolt. I doubt they pressure washed the bearings on wood machinery.
To me it does not look too bad. I would replace the bed roll bearings and what bearings are easy to replace in the head. EDTA soaked rags will help derusting process.

Bill D.

too many horsepower for me to bid
Bill D

[Patrick Kane]

The water exposure doesn’t look too bad. Can you go look at it in person?

I know two local shops running that planer since the late 80s. They both have a very high opinion of the machine. The design is ugly as sin, but I’ve been around both and they are extremely stout machines.

[Thomas Colson]

the idiots that get in there and mess stuff up),

cheers

As former military whom spent many hours in wood, machine, and auto shops around the globe, I'm having a hard time with your use of the characterization "Idiot". In my experience, it was the civilian contractors that were the idiots: they didn't depend on the stuff to function properly when their life depended on it, and when they broke stuff, they just got a contract modification to to buy more (at a 50% markup of course). We did. I'm assuming you were also referring to the civilians, and not the men and woman in uniform.

[Jonathan Jung]

I don’t know about segmented infeed roller or not, but I would go and look at the unit in person with a fine toothed comb before bidding in this case. You might also confirm that it does actually have a helical cutterhead. If so, you should do some research to see if replacement inserts are proprietary to that specific head and if so, are they still available and what you have to go through to get them. There is no OEM support for invicta stuff to my knowledge. I looked at a clapped out RC-51 a handful of years back and would have bought it had it not been so neglected. It’s a stout machine, though the bed raise and lower mechanism on the cable has a weak point that tends to fail. Fixable but annoying to deal with. I’m sure it will come up somewhere if you search for RC-63/51.

If the planer is just sitting out in the weather like that, you could expect some of the bearings to be corroded and possibly need pulling and replacing or at least pulling apart and cleaning. Also would be suspect of the bed rollers and if they are corroded...why do people leave machinery outdoors !?

Lastly, you are getting factory support/parts for your older SCMi machines? What age are your SCMI machines? I have (3) late 70s, early 80s era SCM / L’invincibile machines and I can hear them rolling their eyes and laughing at me over the phone every time I call and inquire about any spare parts at all.

I would not expect that price to stay low once the auction begins to come closer to ending. Some will be scared off by the rust, but not much these days in terms of WW machinery is staying under the radar, given how backlogged and $$ the new machines have become.

My SCMI UNO wide belt is a 1991 and I've been able to get everything I need, except one casting. That includes switches, conveyor belt, pressure bars, and more. For the casting they were very helpful and sent drawings if I want to get a new one recast.

[Jonathan Jung]

None of the invicta planers had segmented infeed. That 63n has a Newman quiet head (but it Needs an onboard knife grinder to function) if you need new inserts they are about $30 each (90 inserts total) it's also 15hp if I recall vs the 10hp on the straight knife heads.

My Grizzly doesn't have segmented infeed and it can be a nuisance. Will the Invicta suffer me the same?

That is very helpful, thank you.

[Jonathan Jung]

Machine tools the government will drain oil, wash off grease and oil then sit in rain so all gearing can rust solid. They can not allow oil to drip onto the ground. Precision sliding surfaces get rusted and need to be taken apart and cleaned before trying to slide them. Things like the table raise lower slides, gibs etc.
Bolts holding in knives will be rusty. Jut allow a loot of time for derusting before touching a screw or bolt. I doubt they pressure washed the bearings on wood machinery.
To me it does not look too bad. I would replace the bed roll bearings and what bearings are easy to replace in the head. EDTA soaked rags will help derusting process.

Bill D.

too many horsepower for me to bid
Bill D

Good to know. I would plan on worst case scenario: full tear down.

[Jonathan Jung]

As former military whom spent many hours in wood, machine, and auto shops around the globe, I'm having a hard time with your use of the characterization "Idiot". In my experience, it was the civilian contractors that were the idiots: they didn't depend on the stuff to function properly when their life depended on it, and when they broke stuff, they just got a contract modification to to buy more (at a 50% markup of course). We did. I'm assuming you were also referring to the civilians, and not the men and woman in uniform.

I apologize for the generalization, I meant no offense. Half my friends are military actually and my neighbor heads the shop at the base near me. I'm actually just passing along how they describe the guys that come in to the local base's shop. I've met some of the guys there too. They don't care about the tools. One time I was in there and saw so much wrong, jointer head inserts missing, chipped router bits being used, wood tools being used for metal, all sorts. But that is just my local base. And I'm sure you're right that civilians and uniforms are different.

[Jared Sankovich]

My Grizzly doesn't have segmented infeed and it can be a nuisance. Will the Invicta suffer me the same?

That is very helpful, thank you.

Depends on the nuisance. If you mean feeding more than 2 boards at once, yes.

[Jonathan Jung]

Depends on the nuisance. If you mean feeding more than 2 boards at once, yes.

Actually have issues with just one board, when if it's really wonky the feed roller won't have enough bite to pull it through.

[Patrick Kane]

Unless you have someone playing catch on the other end, i found i am hard pressed to feed more than 2 boards at once. After the initial pass, most of my rough lumber is within 1/16"+/- of each other in thickness, and i feed multiple boards side by side without feed issue on a solid infeed roller. Looks like your planer is 3 minutes away from selling for $1,000. That is maybe more than i would have paid for that machine without handling it in person. They usually come up for sale around $2,500 under power and under roof in a cabinet shop. Its not an expensive used machine.

[Michael Schuch]

It looks like the planer sold for $1,305. Not a bad deal if you can look at it first and verify the condition of the planer before bidding. Too much money to gamble for me with not being able to see it in person first.

I was watching the auction and they did not post any of the bids (the current high bid) until after the auction closed. It seems like it was more of a sealed bid auction than an ebay style auction.

[Jared Sankovich]

It looks like the planer sold for $1,305. Not a bad deal if you can look at it first and verify the condition of the planer before bidding. Too much money to gamble for me with not being able to see it in person first.

I was watching the auction and they did not post any of the bids (the current high bid) until after the auction closed. It seems like it was more of a sealed bid auction than an ebay style auction.

Cutter head condition is the big unknown. If the knives are shot its 3k for new Newman inserts or $3500 for an aftermarket head, unless you can find one from a 63D. The Newman head is the best option but as I said up thread it needs a grinder. Interestingly they claimed 500,000 bdft before it needs sharpened/replaced.

Newman also apparently will sharpen the head if you send (the entire head) to them. Looks like it was a $600 to sharpen about 15 years ago.

[Bill Dufour]

I wonder how much horsepower that planer has and how many dedicated amps of service it would need. Probably need to upgrade the dust collector to keep up as well.
Bill D

[Jonathan Jung]

It looks like the planer sold for $1,305. Not a bad deal if you can look at it first and verify the condition of the planer before bidding. Too much money to gamble for me with not being able to see it in person first.

I was watching the auction and they did not post any of the bids (the current high bid) until after the auction closed. It seems like it was more of a sealed bid auction than an ebay style auction.

Precisely the reason I didn't get it. It would be $700 in fuel and time to go get it, so it would have became a $2,000 machine. For a completely unknown-condition machine I like to pay no more than around 8-10% of it's ready-to-go value.

[Patrick Kane]

Dont forget taxes and 15% premium. That machine was more like $1,600 out the door. Jonathan, i wouldnt be too upset that it got away. If the rust isnt too bad, it works, and the cutterhead is usable then someone got a solid deal. However, if a few things are wrong, then it quickly goes the other way. This machine isnt near you, but as an example here is the same model planer. Rockwell RC 63 Planar - tools - by owner - sale (craigslist.org) (https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/tls/d/westfield-rockwell-rc-63-planar/7441760363.html) i am quite certain i could walk into this shop, use the machine, thoroughly inspect it, and then offer the guy $2,500 and load it on a trailer and be gone. Sure, i paid $900 more, but have 1/10th the downside.