shaper cutter opinion

[Terry Therneau]

I need to make a half dozen passage doors, all odd size (or I would just buy them). I have the shaper (Felder K770S professional), 30mm and 1.25 spindles, and a comatic power feeder. I'm not likely to make more interior doors again I need to get a cutter. Two options are Grizzly C2185 ($285 + shipping) or a set of 4 knives and 4 limiters from Whitehill for my 55mm combi head (223 pounds sterling = $301, including shipping). Another is an Amana head for $321, but it doesn't look that different than the Grizzly.

Which would you choose?

Terry T.

[Mike Kees]

Terry what profile are you looking to produce ? I assume rail and style doors of some sort. I have made doors for small run jobs with my Euro block and knives from Amana. I have a outfit in Nova Scotia that custom grinds knives for unique profiles. Oella Saw and tool could do the same thing. This would be the cheapest way to get the job done. The cutterblocks are in the $100 dollar range. Stock knife profiles run about $15 a pair. Amana and CMT are two brands ,the heads can be purchased in aluminum or steel versions. I would go steel. These heads are 40mm high and would be similar to your Whitehill but with far cheaper tooling.

[Terry Therneau]

These will be passage doors, standard 1 3/8 thickness, standard door profile. 473379 The pin spacing on the 55mm Whitehill head is the same as on 40mm heads (near as I can tell), but I can't find this profile in any of the "stock" collections. When I got the head I was told that knives are inexpensive, but in practice I don't seem to find what I need. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place? (It's been a nice rebate head, though).

[Greg Quenneville]

I am a Whitehill fan, but have also purchased from Dave at Oella Saw in Baltimore*. And will do again. The Whitehill knife + limiter cutters seem like a better idea to me than a head without limiters, even with the power feed.

I had a couple of Felder inserts that really weren't as good as Whitehill.

*Dave at Oella supplied a set of 6010 handrail knives and a nice Schmidt serrated head. Flawless results in oak. Very happy.

Finally…I had to make 25 six-panel passage doors in cedar before I got a shaper. I used Infinity router bits and was very happy with the results.

Greg

[Michael Todrin]

Hot Knives can grind that profile for you if you have the Amana head already. Prices are reasonable.

[Jared Sankovich]

I would be inclined to go with whitehill given the 3 options.

Every domestic supplier of custom ground 40mm knives seems to just use the amana blanks.

[Mike Kees]

Terry if the choice came down to the Amana or Grizzly set I would buy the Amana. They are better quality overall. You could resell the tooling on that auction site after the job is done if you are sure that you will not use them again. I have never used Whitehill ,I do really like the idea of the combination head. By the time I found out about them I already had a couple rebate heads as well as Euro blocks from Amana. My earlier suggestion was based on a cheaper way to accomplish a one time job. The buy a set and use then resell idea could work out good financially as well.

[Jeff Roltgen]

Here's an option tailored to your exact dilemma:
https://rangate.com/cuttershare
Their tooling is outstanding. Customer service equally so.
jeff

[Mike Kees]

Jared are the Whitehill knife/limiters made from higher quality HSS ?

[Jared Sankovich]

Jared are the Whitehill knife/limiters made from higher quality HSS ?

That is my understanding.

[Greg Quenneville]

Jared are the Whitehill knife/limiters made from higher quality HSS ?

Yes, they are. They also do many profiles in a high grade carbide option.

I am envious of the Rangate cutter share option. (North America only) Their tooling is held in high regard by some pretty fancy woodworkers.

[Jared Sankovich]

Here's an option tailored to your exact dilemma:
https://rangate.com/cuttershare
Their tooling is outstanding. Customer service equally so.
jeff

Their door set doesn't do an ovolo. It's limited to reversible profiles. (Ogee, PG, cove and bead)

[Joe Calhoon]

Jared are the Whitehill knife/limiters made from higher quality HSS ?
Mike, the Whitehill is good 5mm thick HSS. The standard euroblock cutters are poor quality 4mm steel but some grinders such as Hot Knives will make cutters for these in good quality 5mm HSS. The 5mm will fit in the euroblocks.

[Jared Sankovich]

These will be passage doors, standard 1 3/8 thickness, standard door profile. 473379 The pin spacing on the 55mm Whitehill head is the same as on 40mm heads (near as I can tell), but I can't find this profile in any of the "stock" collections. When I got the head I was told that knives are inexpensive, but in practice I don't seem to find what I need. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place? (It's been a nice rebate head, though).

The 40mm knives are about $14 for a stock profile. That unfortunately is not a stock profile.

The 50mm stock knives are slightly more.

This is the only passage door "stock" profile
#098/9
473395

#522/3
473394

[Jared Sankovich]

Mike, the Whitehill is good 5mm thick HSS. The standard euroblock cutters are poor quality 4mm steel but some grinders such as Hot Knives will make cutters for these in good quality 5mm HSS. The 5mm will fit in the euroblocks.

Good to know hot knives uses something better. I still think corrugated is better (for custom grinds) but having options is good.

[Joe Calhoon]

Yes, I’ve tried a lot of different but always come back to corrugated for the custom runs. Quick turnaround and inexpensive.

[Terry Therneau]

Jared, what supplier/catalog is this from?


The 40mm knives are about $14 for a stock profile. That unfortunately is not a stock profile.

The 50mm stock knives are slightly more.

This is the only passage door "stock" profile
#098/9
473395

#522/3
473394

[Jared Sankovich]

Jared, what supplier/catalog is this from?

Cmt, but amana has the same knives. 690.098 will be the cmt part number.

[brent stanley]

Hi Terry, I work with Whitehill here on this side of the pond and I can clear up a couple of things for you.

The 55mm combi takes both the B series and the C series of knives. The B series is the most common knife series with hundreds of "off the shelf" profiles available and are 4mm thick by 55mm high. The C series are also very popular and are 6mm steel. There are no 5mm knives, but the corrugated (serrated) knives are 8mm. The steel used is industry standard M2 steel from a German supplier, and though of very high quality, Whitehill purchases at least 100 000 pieces every year so the end consumer benefits from high volume pricing. Whitehill will not sell the very popular 40mm x 40mm round-back knives that are mass produced by someone else because the quality of grinding and steel is just not up to their standards. They will custom grind 40x40 knives for you in their M2 steel though if desired.

The pin diameter and spacing in the large combi is indeed the same as the small "Euroblocks" but the geometry of the large combi buries most of those small knives within the body of the block, so they are not usable in the large combi.

Knives to match the Amana ones of course could be custom made, but it looks like mould profile (sticking) knife No. 87 is very similar (1mm radius increments are available as stock) and the scribe (coping) profile to match would be No. 409. Though there are exceptions in the collection, typically knife options cater to those building full length tenons for passageway doors, and non-captive panels. You have a nice heavy machine that could certainly cope the rails if you wanted. Flush mounted would give you a long tenon, but even conventionally mounted you'd get about 2" of gluing surface on your tenons. These knife options treat one edge/side of the wood at a time so would be slower than the T&G approach, but give you more options and some might say the option to build a better door. You're looking at about 120GBP total for both knife sets and there will be many many doors left in the life of the knives when you're done the job.

The "blue pages" in the Whitehill catalogue give you a listing of stock sticking profiles and matches up the corresponding coping knives for you depending on what block/machine you are using. The ones I mention above are on page 38. Let me know if you have any questions, I use this kit all the time!

B


I need to make a half dozen passage doors, all odd size (or I would just buy them). I have the shaper (Felder K770S professional), 30mm and 1.25 spindles, and a comatic power feeder. I'm not likely to make more interior doors again I need to get a cutter. Two options are Grizzly C2185 ($285 + shipping) or a set of 4 knives and 4 limiters from Whitehill for my 55mm combi head (223 pounds sterling = $301, including shipping). Another is an Amana head for $321, but it doesn't look that different than the Grizzly.

Which would you choose?

Terry T.

[Albert Lee]

I used to be CMT fan, now I am with OMAS. much better cut.

I have a Whitehill block, its a good set.

Have not tried Amana or Grizzly.

[Terry Therneau]

I want to thank all those who commented. You have given me a lot to chew on, and proven the worth of this mailing list. Serious shaper tooling is a new field for me -- I did do a bit on my prior Delta HD with 1/2 spindle and classic 1/2" Delta cutters, it was much more impressive than the router table. But, I just installed a comatic DC 40 a few days ago and did the relief cuts on a stack of base molding on Saturday. Wow. It was a whole different ball game.

The idea of running them in 2 passes is something I'll look into more seriously, I had not thought that through. I have a Freeborn PC-101 cabinet door set (purchased used, but only lightly), and perhaps I could do it with that in multiple passes. I'll do some experimenting.
(I also have a domino XL, so adding tenons is not a problem.)

[Michael Schuch]

I have always had great luck with Grizzly cutters. I have put a lot of feet of hardwood through my Grizzly lock miter cutter and is has not needed sharpening yet. I am sure the Grizzly door set would easily hold up to a few doors. They would probably be my first choice.

[Greg Quenneville]

I want to thank all those who commented. You have given me a lot to chew on, and proven the worth of this mailing list. Serious shaper tooling is a new field for me -- I did do a bit on my prior Delta HD with 1/2 spindle and classic 1/2" Delta cutters, it was much more impressive than the router table. But, I just installed a comatic DC 40 a few days ago and did the relief cuts on a stack of base molding on Saturday. Wow. It was a whole different ball game.

The idea of running them in 2 passes is something I'll look into more seriously, I had not thought that through. I have a Freeborn PC-101 cabinet door set (purchased used, but only lightly), and perhaps I could do it with that in multiple passes. I'll do some experimenting.
(I also have a domino XL, so adding tenons is not a problem.)

While you are on the subject of Domino tenons, Whitehill makes a bullnose insert that cuts both 6mm and 7mm radius tenons. If you do use the Domino don’t forget to subtract the dimension of the moulding from the tenon length because of the overlap. That was an embarrassing lesson for me.

[brent stanley]

While you are on the subject of Domino tenons, Whitehill makes a bullnose insert that cuts both 6mm and 7mm radius tenons. If you do use the Domino don’t forget to subtract the dimension of the moulding from the tenon length because of the overlap. That was an embarrassing lesson for me.

They also make a set of knives that will cut domino profiles as well, which is pretty handy.