Shellac and Alkyd Varnish

[Kris Cook]

I am trimming out my living room using African Mahogany. I initially trimmed a new opening I created when we bought the house with this wood, and mixed some Minwax stain to get the color we wanted, and filled the pores with Behlen pore filler, then 2 coats of unwaxed shellac followed by wax.

One of the surfaces was horizontal, and something got set down on it and caused some marking.

I decided to go with something a little more durable to redo the original stuff I installed, as well as the remaining trim.

I plan to strip the wax off the pieces I did previously and put on a coat of alkyd varnish.

I also plan to use alkyd varnish on all the new installed trim (prior to installation to the extent possible). I am going to forego the pore filling, as I think it was not worth the effort.

My questions:

I plan to seal all sides of the trim prior to installation so I was thinking shellac would be easiest for quick dry and sealing. I have a HVLP sprayer that I have yet to use but was thinking of using it for this. So, the first question is - would I be better off spraying this sealer coat or just brushing it on?

Would one coat of shellac followed by a coat of the varnish be sufficient? Seems two coats of either shellac or varnish get the visual result I am looking for.

Light abrasion between coats necessary if I go with shellac followed by the varnish?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Can you even buy Alkyd varnish anywhere?

[Prashun Patel]

1. You don't need an alkyd varnish for this; they're getting much harder to find.
2. If you have HVLP, I'd seal the stain in with a thin coat of Zinsser Seal Coat, then spray a few coats of a waterbased top coat. I like Target products but there are others by General that are good too.
3. If you really want to wipe on a varnish on a ton of trim, I'd use Minwax wipe on poly or Arm-R-Seal or Waterlox original sealer finish. In all 3 cases, the shellac is unnecessary. It can go right on over the stain (assuming it's dried for a day or two).

[Kris Cook]

1. You don't need an alkyd varnish for this; they're getting much harder to find.
2. If you have HVLP, I'd seal the stain in with a thin coat of Zinsser Seal Coat, then spray a few coats of a waterbased top coat. I like Target products but there are others by General that are good too.
3. If you really want to wipe on a varnish on a ton of trim, I'd use Minwax wipe on poly or Arm-R-Seal or Waterlox original sealer finish. In all 3 cases, the shellac is unnecessary. It can go right on over the stain (assuming it's dried for a day or two).


Thank you Prashun for your response.

To clarify, the main reason I was thinking of using the shellac is I want to seal all faces. I would plan to put the final finish on the non-showing faces.

Also, I already bought 2 gallons of alkyd varnish.

[John TenEyck]

If you want to seal all sides I would spray Sealcoat shellac prior to installation. If you install the trim first, then I would wipe it on with a stain pad - practice on scrap first. I think you're still going to need two coats of varnish to get an acceptable finish. Thinning the first or both coats will help reduce the final film thickness, if that's a concern.

John

[Rich Engelhardt]

Also, I already bought 2 gallons of alkyd varnish.I haven't seen any alkyd varnish for a good five years. Nice score.

[Kris Cook]

If you want to seal all sides I would spray Sealcoat shellac prior to installation. If you install the trim first, then I would wipe it on with a stain pad - practice on scrap first. I think you're still going to need two coats of varnish to get an acceptable finish. Thinning the first or both coats will help reduce the final film thickness, if that's a concern.

John

Thank you John. That makes sense.

[Kris Cook]

Rich - I guess that is a benefit of living in Montana. I bought 2 gallons thinking we might be headed down that path as well.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Kris - yeah, even Montana is going to end up in the same trick bag as the rest of us.
It's the EPA's mandates on VOCs that's behind it.

[Kris Cook]

If you want to seal all sides I would spray Sealcoat shellac prior to installation. If you install the trim first, then I would wipe it on with a stain pad - practice on scrap first. I think you're still going to need two coats of varnish to get an acceptable finish. Thinning the first or both coats will help reduce the final film thickness, if that's a concern.

John

I don't think I stated my issue very clearly in earlier posts so I will try again here:

I originally stained the wood followed by 2 coats of shellac (I misstated the type used previously, I used Bullseye Shellac which I understand does have wax). I also put paste wax on everything originally. I have stripped the wax already with mineral spirits.

1. I want to seal all 6 faces of the trim I am installing and am trying to figure out the sequence for sealing (will use Sealcoat this time). John - I interpreted your post to suggest putting the Sealcoat on last. I may not have understood correctly but I don't want the shellac to be the outer layer on the showing faces. I was thinking stain - shellac - varnish, in that order. The test pieces I have done with the alkyd varnish by itself don't have the amber tone we want so we are thinking the shellac is important in the mix.

2. To complicate matters, the trim I did originally needs to have the varnish applied to it. This trim is a small percentage of the total trim so I would rather modify it than try to match everything else to it. As I said, this trim has waxed shellac on it.

2a. So, in keeping with the schedule outlined in No. 1 above, can I just abrade the shellac and go over it with the varnish?

2b. Should I sand it down to bare wood and start over?

2c. Sealcoat on the shellac followed by the varnish?

Thank you.

[John TenEyck]

Sorry if I was unclear.

If it's clean oil based varnish will stick to Bullseye shellac, although I would scuff sand it first. If you're not sure it's clean of all the paste wax then either clean it more first, or apply a coat of Sealcoat shellac to seal it in. Then apply two coats of your OB varnish. In all cases, the varnish goes on last.

John

[Kris Cook]

Thanks John. I appreciate it.