Beaded face frame plan - any gotchas?

[Mike Stelts]

After looking at past discussions and the internet, I've come up with the following plan for building beaded face frames. The work load includes a kitchen, bath, and frame & panel construction on deep stone walls around windows.

Equipment
Felder KF700SP with 1.25" and router spindles
Kreg 1/4" x 1.5" notching bit
Freeborn PC-17-041 bead cutter

Procedure
Follow this procedure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSWjo61MRA8) for notches (KF700 shaper, router spindle, Kreg)
Slide the shaper fence over to chamfer rails (KF700 shaper, router spindle, Kreg)
Cut the beads (KF700 shaper, shaper spindle, Freeborn)
Glue and pocket screw

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mike, since you have a sliding table shaper with a router collet I would simply use the crosscut fence on the sliding table to make the notches.

Slide the fence over as close to the bit as you can, and attach a sacrificial piece of wood to the fence that extends past the far side of the router bit, to act as a zero clearance fence.

Your crosscut fence already has an accurate flip stop..

Regards, Rod.

[Greg Quenneville]

Hah. I was just about to ask this question using basically the same tools, although I haven’t yet purchased the Kreg bit.

So on order of operation, would it not be better to cut the bead first?

Greg

[Jared Sankovich]

That bead size (1/4") is different than what kreg uses. It's not a problem but you need to account for the difference. The 1.5" notching bit will cut a 1.625" notch when set to the .3125" depth for a 1/4" bead with a .0625" quirk (kreg includes the quirk in the 1/4" measurement)

The only other thing is keep the stock as close to that measurement as possible to within a few thousandths.

Finally use stop blocks to make consistent notches, and if you want a 2" rail (or whatever) use a spacer block in conjunction with a stop block to make the 2nd pass for the wider cut.

My method
https://youtu.be/KGlid5nTgzM

[Jared Sankovich]

Hah. I was just about to ask this question using basically the same tools, although I haven’t yet purchased the Kreg bit.

So on order of operation, would it not be better to cut the bead first?

Greg

Bead first will just blow out the bead with the notching bit.

[Greg Quenneville]

Bead first will just blow out the bead with the notching bit.

Thanks Jared. Really nice custom set-up you have in the video

Greg

[Jim Becker]

Aside from the machining...take your time and be meticulous, sneaking up on the perfect fit. Too long is kewel since you can take more off. Too short...you remake the part. Of course, the alternative to milling the stock is to use an applied bead.

[Jared Sankovich]

Aside from the machining...take your time and be meticulous, sneaking up on the perfect fit. Too long is kewel since you can take more off. Too short...you remake the part. Of course, the alternative to milling the stock is to use an applied bead.

It should be a perfect fit off the machine if you have it all set right. Notch depth and the width of the mating part are critical with surprisingly little tolerance. A few thousandths wider on the rail is OK, a few thousandths narrower with show gaps on both bead miters. A dial indicator and calipers are your friend. I run all my FF stock to width on the shaper with an outboard fence.

473117
473118

[Jim Becker]

Good advice, Jared.

[Mike Stelts]

Is it worth the extra money to get the Freeborn cutter vs. a router bit? I’ll be running hundreds (not thousands) of feet; but I’m ready to pay for a better result. My assumption is that the cutter won’t burn the wood as easily.

[Jared Sankovich]

Is it worth the extra money to get the Freeborn cutter vs. a router bit? I’ll be running hundreds (not thousands) of feet; but I’m ready to pay for a better result. My assumption is that the cutter won’t burn the wood as easily.

If you value your time at all then yes get the shaper cutter. The bead should come out so smooth/clean you should not need more then a scuff sanding. Squirly grain will need a bit of sanding, but won't chunk out like a router bit.

[Mike Stelts]

Thanks for the great advice everyone. You tempted me to ask one more question. I'd like to reproduce this 5/16" radius profile on door trim; but, I'm stumped on the best way to do it (without a hand plane). Any ideas?473138473139

[Richard Coers]

I always apply the bead like loose pieces of trim, mitered in the corners. Feels easier to get a perfect joint to me. On a long run, you can at least set up stops for the stiles to speed cutting.

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks for the great advice everyone. You tempted me to ask one more question. I'd like to reproduce this 5/16" radius profile on door trim; but, I'm stumped on the best way to do it (without a hand plane). Any ideas?473138473139

Hard to tell from the pictures, but it's a full bead on 2 sides correct?

Just use a 14mm half round 40mm knife. Run both the face and edge to replicate that detail.
473145
473146

[Warren Lake]

you can run your bead first it just depends which method you use to cut. If you use a proper machine then its a spinning head doing it, if you use a simpler way people use the Hoffman chomper thing. Neither of those will get blow out on the profile. I used to first have to do this ont he table saw and in that case you cut one side into the profile and one side out of the profile.

One thing about beading first is it shows you perfectly how deep to go when you clear the haunch. I only do them mortise and tennon and you do need to pay attention to tolerances. Ive cleaned out the haunches different ways.

I went from a sears moulding head to run the bead which was flintstones to having a corrugated cutter made. It cut so clean I figure you do have to sand for finish adhesion.

[Jared Sankovich]

you can run your bead first it just depends which method you use to cut. If you use a proper machine then its a spinning head doing it, if you use a simpler way people use the Hoffman chomper thing. Neither of those will get blow out on the profile. I used to first have to do this ont he table saw and in that case you cut one side into the profile and one side out of the profile.

One thing about beading first is it shows you perfectly how deep to go when you clear the haunch. I only do them mortise and tennon and you do need to pay attention to tolerances. Ive cleaned out the haunches different ways.

I went from a sears moulding head to run the bead which was flintstones to having a corrugated cutter made. It cut so clean I figure you do have to sand for finish adhesion.

Warren, the router bit method (kreg and similar) cuts with and against the bead at the same time. Half the cut is into the profile and half the cut is lifting the profile. That is its biggest downside compared to the morso or a powered notcher like a US concepts machine.

It's fast though. If you set the shaper to cut the bead to 0.312" the notch needs to be .0312 deep. No trial, no sneak up of fit. Just run it all at once.

[Dave Sabo]

Is it worth the extra money to get the Freeborn cutter vs. a router bit? I’ll be running hundreds (not thousands) of feet; but I’m ready to pay for a better result. My assumption is that the cutter won’t burn the wood as easily.


If you value your time at all then yes get the shaper cutter. The bead should come out so smooth/clean you should not need more then a scuff sanding. Squirly grain will need a bit of sanding, but won't chunk out like a router bit.

I'm going to disagree here. If all you have is a couple of hundred feet then the Kreg system is more than adequate. They've done all the hard work getting all the parts, tools and jigs to match AND work together in a simple to understand manner.

Sure, Freeborn makes a quality cutter , but will it produce a better cut ? I doubt it. Especially with the production run we're discussing here. And speaking of your time, how much of it are you gonna spend doping out how the system works together ?

I'd just get the kreg sys with the cheater aids and be done with it.

[William Hodge]

The little bead pictured on the old work looks like a hand planed bead. Modern stock bead cutters that I have seen don't match that detail. On the old work the fillet side of the bead would often be shallow, making the bead less than 180 degrees. I have seen beads with 140 degrees of an arc. The fillet would have angled sides and a pointed bottom. This can be made with steel courrugated back cutters, but stock carbide cutters don't seem to do this.

Shallow narrow fillets next to beads don't lend themselves to slapping on paint.

[Warren Lake]

I havent used one but with any bit you have a choice to go out of a profile or go in so if you go in the bit is still turning out on one side but you are not going to get blow out the same as there is no material there to blow out. Yes its turning the wrong way but no material there is a different story with different results. Maybe not explaining that well. I hand run lots of router stuff backwards and its come out of reducing blow out by the time you go forward 90 percent of the material is gone, you dont get blow out then going forward.

Often even that will cut cleaner though I would not want to take the chance as this is fiddly. Its taking me longer already doing the mortise and tennon.

I missed one of these once but it makes total sense. Far better than the pedal method. Not sure if I will try the router bit way or not. I have a Morso chopper and that establishes my 45 cuts both sides Then you have to clean out in some fashion

Id rather have this


473157

[Jared Sankovich]

I'm going to disagree here. If all you have is a couple of hundred feet then the Kreg system is more than adequate. They've done all the hard work getting all the parts, tools and jigs to match AND work together in a simple to understand manner.

Sure, Freeborn makes a quality cutter , but will it produce a better cut ? I doubt it. Especially with the production run we're discussing here. And speaking of your time, how much of it are you gonna spend doping out how the system works together ?

I'd just get the kreg sys with the cheater aids and be done with it.


I'll agree to disagree. When have you ever had router bit cut as cleanly and leave a finish equal to a shaper cutter, especially a small diameter bit like that.

If the op has a sliding table shaper its no different in function than kregs wonky jig, and certainly should be more rigid of a setup.

[Mike Stelts]

William:
Everything I'm trying to match is hand-planed and the fillets were full of paint long ago, so their beauty is forever hidden. If I can get close to the original profiles with stock cutters, I'm satisfied. It will look better than the remodeler's trim I'll be replacing. Right now, the priority is installing a new kitchen and bathtub for my wife, so I'll give up a little historical accuracy.

Jared: It's a full bead on two sides. I'll get the knife and give it a try.

[Warren Lake]

router bits stink compared to high speed steel on a machine. Ive done the tests. Used high speed steel cutter hone it put it in cut, brand new carbide bit not even close, small radius not even sharp it scrapes the wood away compared to a big diameter cutter head and sharp cutters.