Who Has a Tractor?

[Rich Riddle]

We have a small farm.....and it appears as though you need decent tractors, other wheeled vehicles, implements, etc. to have a small farm. What tractor do you have, what size, and what attachments or implements do you find most useful?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

It's been covered extensively here. Looking for the latest...



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Compact Tractor

[Tom M King]

Utility tractor is a 1979 John Deere 2640 with front end loader, and reverser transmission. 70 hp-a low end category 2. I wouldn't want a smaller one if you have to shape dirt. When we first got this place, I bought a 35 hp tractor, but we had a lot of dirt to shape, so I bought the larger one. The 35hp was new, bought in 1980, but that was the last new tractor I ever bought. I've been running that John Deere for over 30 years, and have built our farm with it. We have 163 acres, with pasture, riding rings, and miles of trails, and at that, this tractor is the minimum size. If I knew now what I did when I bought that tractor, I would have looked for a 90 hp, but I've made out with that one.

The size of your spread will determine what size tractor you need.

I have a long list of implements, of which I wouldn't want to be without one of. It will depend entirely on what you want to do with it, to figure out what you need. Need more info. I would say a front end loader is a must have.

[Rich Riddle]

I have about fifteen acres total but will be shaping dirt. That said, I already own a Case 1845C skid steer, so that will be used for shaping dirt. I purchased the 1845C to cut in a road. The irony is that the 1845C might bring more money than when I purchased it.

[Ronald Blue]

There are many attachments available for your skidsteer. Obviously there are things a tractor can do better. You won't pull a baler with it or mow hay. So what are you thinking you need. There are many brands out there. Front wheel assist is one thing you definitely want. Especially if you have a loader.

[Bill Dufour]

If you get a FEL you have to have power steering. It is possible to add electric power steering from a car.
Bill D

[John K Jordan]

We have a small farm.....and it appears as though you need decent tractors, other wheeled vehicles, implements, etc. to have a small farm. What tractor do you have, what size, and what attachments or implements do you find most useful?

This is more than you asked for but there are a lot of factors. My use is undoubtedly different from yours.

The implements you add depend on how you use the tractor and what other equipment you have or plan to have. And maybe the size of your property. And whether you'll be playing or farming.
And of course, how much money you want to spend. I almost always buy new since I don't want to buy someone else's abuse and lack of proper maintenance.

I have a 27 acre farm with fields, woods, flat and hills, driveways, trails, horse training areas, etc. I keep horses, llamas, alpacas, mini donkeys, chickens, guineas, and hatch and raise peacocks. I couldn't maintain anything without the tractor.

I bought a Kubota L3830 in 2003 and use it almost daily. This tractor is the HST model - extremely valuable if you do a lot of maneuvering instead of just driving it in fields or grading drives at a constant speed.
Don't even consider a tractor without a front end loader. This tractor has two other incredible features - it will accept standard skid steer implements on the FEL so I can quickly switch out attachments. Also has adjustable links on the lower arms of the 3-point hitch - saves SO much time when attaching implements.

First, enhancements to the tractor:
The most useful enhancement I've added to the tractor are the "Top and Tilt" valves and cylinders. This lets me change the angles of anything connected to the 3-point hitch without getting off the tractor. I can interactively adjust the yard box or rake or grading blade or even bushhog without getting off the tractor. After using it for just a little while I would NEVER want a general purpose tractor without it. With Top&Tilt and a yard box I created a 1/4 mile driveway to the house. (I wanted to block off the original drive to fence in some fields.)

Another simple enhancement was to weld two grab hooks for 3/8 chains on the top of the bucket on either side and a slip hook at the top center. These are invaluable for so many things, such as pulling on trees, carrying awkward loads, and carrying logs with a couple of skidding tongs on short lengths of chain to set on the sawmill. And of course, skidding logs out of the woods, driving backwards (my preferred method.)

Another enhancement, if your tractor allows it, is to turn the rear tires around so they track a little wider and fill them with (non-corrosive) fluid for weight for traction and stability.


Tractor Implements:

Most used these days:

Yard box. The Top&Tilt makes this far more versatile
Landscape rake for smoothing maybe 3/4 mile of gravel and dirt lanes.
Pallet forks. Use with tractor and skid steer.


Used less often:

Rotortiller (6'wide) use seasonally
Post hole digger with 9" and 12" augers. Great for fencing.
7' grading blade - great for ditching and shaping gravel/dirt lanes. Benefits greatly from Top&Tilt.
Subsoiler/single point plow. Great for breaking up hard dirt, say for putting in a shallow low voltage electrical line
Hydraulic fence post driver. It will easily drive a 7" PT fence post 3' into the ground. It is there to STAY. The Post hole digger will also work but the post won't be as sturdy.
250' of heavy duty steel cable and snatch blocks for pulling trees when cutting so they fall in the desired direction.


Never used:

Carrier for the 3 point hitch. I use the forks instead. Sold the carrier.
Backhoe with subframe. Quit using when I bought an excavator. Do NOT get a backhoe that attaches to the 3 point hitch. Many have caused serious damage to the tractor. I''ll sell it in the spring.
Bush hog. Quit using it when I bought a couple of big diesel powered zero turn mowers. Sold the bush hog.


Things I rent or borrow:

Seed drill, twice a year, for pastures.
Fertilizer and lime spreader.
Equipment to cut and bale hay.
473083


Non-tractor equipment.

I'd use some implements more if I didn't have other equipment.
I use 25hp diesel zero turn mowers that cut 5' at once. Perfect for fields, trails, around fencing, even the yard. Strong enough to cut 1" or larger diameter brush.
473087



If you intend to take down trees, construct roads, shape dirt, dig up and move big rocks and bury utilities nothing beats an excavator, even a small one.
The excavator can take down even large trees without the danger of a chainsaw. With a thumb and a narrow bucket is so useful for clearing overgrowth, cleaning up downed trees, dig up stumps. Dig big pits for burning piles of logs and brush. So far I've dug 1000 ft of trenches to bury electrical cables and water lines, cut roads and switchbacks, moved some incredibly heavy rocks. I quickly cleared over 50 beetle-killed pine trees which fell across my favorite horse and 4-wheeler trail.
473085

A backhoe attachment on a tractor will do some of this but much slower and can't dig as deep. It is fine for footers, septic system, small stumps, etc.
473084

I'd hate to live without a skid steer. Just yesterday I added a tracked Kubota to my wheeled John Deere.
473086


And this is not equipment or an implement but it's hard to run a farm without big trailers. I have 16 and 18' flatbed trailers, both gooseneck and bumper pull, and a 14 ton dump trailer, livestock trailers, and some others. The trailers needed might depend on what you do on the farm and if you ever have to move loads of logs, gravel, or move equipment to another site or take it somewhere for service you can't do yourself.

BTW, something I'll never get for a tractor: a belly mower. A friend has one and it's slow, doesn't cut that well, and is a pain to remove and reinstall. The zero turn mowers will literally run rings around it and do a much better job.

I just saw your comment about shaping dirt. My serious dirt shaping got so much easier with the excavator, skid steer, and the tractor. The excavator to break up the hard stuff, do the initial shaping, and make big dirt piles to move. It's real slow moving the dirt.
The skid steers move the dirt. The wheeled skid steer with a heavy load in the bucket is also excellent for compacting in small lifts to prep building sites, etc. Also rough smoothing and spreading gravel.
The tractor does the final smoothing and shaping. For a building I use a rotating laser level is all stages from grassy hillside to putting up the building.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

John makes a lot of good points and "a tractor" by itself may or may not be the best solution depending on how much ground work you will actually be doing. A TLB tractor can do a whole bunch of work, but it's general purpose and therefore, is going to have compromises.

My sub-compact Kubota BX-22 wouldn't be appropriate for your larger property and heavier needs. But even so, it's paid for itself several times over in the 18 years I've owned it!

[Mitch schiffer]

I have a bobcat 763 skidsteer and I definitely wouldn't want to have to do without it. I have forks a few different size buckets and a log/brush grapple. I have also had several different mini and one slightly larger excavators. The excavators are great if you are developing a property. I have since sold the excavators since I'm not doing that as a business anyone and I don't have much land of my own.

[Tom M King]

Hopefully, in Virginia you're close enough to an Agri Supply. With that size spread, you can get by fine with a Category 1 tractor, and Agri Supply is hard to beat for Category 1 implements. That's what I started with, and did a lot of work until I finally decided I needed bigger if I was ever going to get done here.

Even now, I still hit Agri Supply a couple of times a year.

[Ronald Blue]

If you get a FEL you have to have power steering. It is possible to add electric power steering from a car.
Bill D

Bill there hasn't been a tractor of size made without power steering in years. At least as far back as the 70's and sold here. Most are hydrostatic power steering these days.

[Greg Parrish]

65 acre tree farm with a 10 acre lake and a smaller 1.5 acre lake. We use a JD 5045 tractor, JD 310K 4x4 backhoe, JD 540 zeroturn mower, JD 615 gator and Polaris Ranger 1000 for maintenance. For the tractor, we regularly use a post hole auger, mower, harrow, lift boom, scrape blade and tow bar. Occasionally we use a dirt scrape pan or plow, but it's been years on either. In the past, we've had a Massey Ferguson 245S and a couple of older Ford 8N gas engine tractors. No comparison between those old Ford 8N's and the current JD 5045. For our place, the Ferguson 245 was probably better sized, but not nearly as nice of a tractor as the current JD.

Many things we would have used the tractor for before, we now use other equipment like the backhoe. Honestly, I wonder how we ever made it before owning a backhoe. Our first backhoe was a small Terramite T5 backhoe. We did a lot of work with that little machine but it was truly undersized for our usage. The 310K is more up to task but even with it, I regularly wish we had more power. LOL :)

Growing up I learned to handle almost every task out there with my grandfathers old Ford 8N 1950's gas tractor. It didn't have great working breaks and it was fairly underpowered for many tasks, but somehow we got it done and I'm still here to talk about it. But now, with a decent sized zero turn mower, the gators/rangers and backhoe in the mix, the tractor is suddenly one of our least used pieces of equipment.

Good luck on your equipment choice. No matter what you get, it will probably be like wood working equipment and will evolve over time with usage.

[Jim Becker]

Hopefully, in Virginia you're close enough to an Agri Supply. With that size spread, you can get by fine with a Category 1 tractor, and Agri Supply is hard to beat for Category 1 implements. That's what I started with, and did a lot of work until I finally decided I needed bigger if I was ever going to get done here.

I agree...there is a lot of value in "house brand" 3 pt attachments that are readily available for Cat 1 tractors and throughout the country, there are various "farm" store chains that make them available, sometimes even in match paint colors to your "tractor color of choice". :) Sometimes used implements come up for a good deal, even if a little cleaning and paint is required. I did that with a Wood rear blade. It was ugly, but only $150 used. 'Took the rotext to it to remove any rust and dirt and repainted it to look like a new implement. Sold it for $250. I actually sold all of my attachments prior to moving to this smaller property and frankly, I sold them for "really close" to what I originally paid for them or in the case of that rear blade, for more.

[Tom M King]

I don't know how small they make rotary cutters (Bushog) with two tailwheels, but if you can find that option with whatever size cutter you get, it is a lot better than a single tailwheel. One problem with single wheel bushogs is scalping uneven ground because one side will go lower to the hump. Two tailwheels makes one almost as good as a finish mower.

Options you want, probably already mentioned in this thread but called different names, are telescopic drag links, and at least two remotes. I have two remotes on my big tractor, and would be better served by three, but you won't be pulling a batwing mower, or hydraulically controlled grading blade probably. Those are the only things I really could use three remotes for. A remote is a lever beside the seat that controls hydraulic quick connect outlets on the back of the tractor.

A hydraulically controlled toplink is a good thing (also called something else earlier here) with a box blade. You can use one remote for that.

And speaking of box blades, don't get one that's too large for your tractor. You want to be able to drag it with the bucket full without stopping the tractor. That was the reason I bought the 70 hp tractor to start with. A box blade would stop the 35hp tractor. Then I'd have to raise the blade, which leaves a hump to have to deal with. Any hump left when grading wastes a LOT of time compared to just dragging something smooth to start with. The 70 horse tractor will roll dirt over the top of a 7' box blade without stopping.

[Jack Frederick]

You mention “small farm” as your impetus to get a tractor, but what is your small farm. How much work are you looking to do and how much land do you need to move. Most of the answers so far cover “real” machines for heavy work or at least capability. My place is small and I have Kubota BX’s, the 2660 and 23. They could not begin to do the work taht John requires, or at least you have to be patient getting the work done. the backhoe on the 23 is terrific, but it is like emptying Lake Tahoe with a tablespoon. On the 2660 I have the FEL, Box blade, 60” mid mount mower, ratchet rake, 42” tiller, bucket forks which I made, and hooks, as John suggested. The 23 stays as a FEL and BH. I had a 48” bush hog but after a few years of knocking down the rough stuff I got the place to where the MMM can handle it. I was happy to get rid of it as it was kind of a situation where the implements seemed to be driving the tractor. Not a good place to be. This spring I’m going to sell the tiller. In my soil it creates a hard pan at the base of its reach.

[Bill Dufour]

In Califorina the CARB limits for a small tractor is 25HP. Above that and some of the smog rules are retroactive. I do not doubt these rules will slowly expand to other states. Some of these rules can not be meet except by replacing the engine and fuel system. Some engines have no modern replacement so the vehicle is trash. I am not sure how they know you even own a tractor since there is no license system.
Bill D

[Brent Gamble]

Lots of good advice above. I have a Massey Ferguson 1760M (60 HP) with a cab. I have 50 acres about 1/3 pasture and 2/3 somewhat wooded. I shred the wooded portion at least annually to keep down underbrush. The handiest implement I own is a grapple for the FEL. I've owned the tractor for going on 4 years and I've only had the bucket on the FEL twice. I had a smaller open station tractor previously and I shopped for 6 or 8 months before I bought this one. Some folks have strong feelings about cabs, but I'd never go back. Nice to run the shredder for several hours and not be covered in dust, etc. Biggest problem I've had with it is my glasses fogging up when I get off of it because of the A/C.

[John K Jordan]

... Some folks have strong feelings about cabs, but I'd never go back. Nice to run the shredder for several hours and not be covered in dust, etc. Biggest problem I've had with it is my glasses fogging up when I get off of it because of the A/C.

I've bought the last two machines with cabs. Since I'm elderly and feeble I do like the heat and air and staying out of the dust but I also like staying dry in a sudden rain shower and even more, protection when stirring up a yellowjacket or bald-faced hornet nest! In yellowjacket season I sometimes wear a face net, long sleeves and gloves, and keep a can of wasp spray handy. I've been stung more times than I like to remember on the open tractor.

My favorite equipment salesman told me utilities and construction companies are buying cab machines now, not necessarily for operator comfort although that can improve productivity, but for the health reasons of keeping the dust away.

I think the ideal situation, if I were rich, would be to have three tractors. One, a big honkin' powerful tractor for when you need that power, a medium-sized one for general use, and a compact tractor for tight places! My tractor is close to 40hp and I sometimes wish I had a 60 horse like yours.

JKJ

[Edward Weber]

In Califorina the CARB limits for a small tractor is 25HP. Above that and some of the smog rules are retroactive. I do not doubt these rules will slowly expand to other states. Some of these rules can not be meet except by replacing the engine and fuel system. Some engines have no modern replacement so the vehicle is trash. I am not sure how they know you even own a tractor since there is no license system.
Bill D


Tier 4 final and your good to go until they change the law

i have a 2012 tier 4 interim (which became the final) anything newer than about a 2015 and you probably don't have to worry.
They are talking about changing the rules on off road gas engines but we'll see what happens.

[Lisa Starr]

I wished I had a tractor for many years while I was on larger properties. Of course, I did have my old John Deere model MC. That's a little bulldozer built on the "M" model. It was handy to have, and I moved a lot of dirt with it, despite it being just a 2 cylinder engine. I could always get it to start, no matter how long it had sat since last running or how cold and nasty it was. I even opened our driveway with it a couple of times when it drifted shut in a snow storm and we couldn't get the plow truck thru. I still miss that little tractor as I spent many enjoyable hours on it.

[Alex Zeller]

Rule #1 when buying a tractor is figure out what size/ hp you need and then buy at least one size larger. Far too many people buy one they think is right only to sell it to get a larger one.

[Ronald Blue]

There are a lot of variables and differences within the tractor models. They will all have 3 pt hitch. They won't all have remote hydraulics for attachments. That's something that might be able to be added but not simply. Most have quick detach loaders. That may or may not be a benefit to you. I've never removed mine even though it's possible. You don't want a sub compact utility. That's just a garden tractor on steroids. Climb on and off of all the models you look at to see how easily they are to get on and off. Some have completely flat operator floors and some will have a small hump. You will want hydro and not gear drive with shuttle. Whether you get a cab or not is personal preference but it does bump the cost up a few thousand if that matters. Not knowing what you hope to do with it makes it hard to give better advice. Get a loader with quick attach mounts so you can inter change implements with the skid steer if you want. As a note skid steer mount is a industry standard. John Deere has their own proprietary system. Someone might make a adapter kit but I've never looked into it. Something to keep in mind.

[John K Jordan]

… As a note skid steer mount is a industry standard. John Deere has their own proprietary system. Someone might make a adapter kit but I've never looked into it. Something to keep in mind.

This is not clear. Do you mean JD tractors don’t use the standard skid steer mount or do you mean JD skid steers don’t use the standard skid steer mount? Or both?

My JD skid steer uses the same mount as Bobcat, my Kubota tractor, and my Kubota tracked skid steer loader.

[Tom M King]

Ronald, hydro instead of gear with power shift ( what's called shuttle shift by some, but same thing) is personal preference. I'll take a power shift any day over a hydro. But a power shift transmission is probably not even available on the little tractors.

For those that don't know, a hydrostatic transmission is sort of like an automatic transmission in a car. A power shift is a regular straight transmission, but forward to reverse can be changed with a lever to the left of the steering wheel, that you can flip back and forth with your little finger. You don't have to use the clutch with a shuttle shift/power shifter, and is great for loader work, or mowing around obstacles. With the hydro, much like a riding lawnmower, you step on different pedals for forward, and reverse.

A hydrostatic is constantly wearing itself, whereas the power shift is good for thousands of hours. You find hydros on small tractors and riding mowers, and power shifted transmissions on larger tractors.

[Tom M King]

Get a bucket with a bolt on cutting edge. For a small farm, moving dirt will probably never wear out a cutting edge, but if you're ever going to move snow off of pavement with it, the edge will wear quickly to the point that it won't cut dirt cleanly. With a bolt on edge, which is normally reversible, you can save one edge for snow clearing on pavement.

I have one I need to change now from welded on, and even with all the equipment, it's probably still going to be a days work.


Earlier, I recommended a box blade to fit your tractor, and not too big. With a landscape rake, I'm going the other way with that. I had a 7' one for my 35hp tractor, and it could handle it easily. You're not going to move a lot of heavy stuff with the rake. Now, I have an 8' category 2 one for the 70hp, and only that size so I can get in tight places.

A rotary tiller is a handy thing to have. I still have a 67" cheap Italian one that I bought for the little tractor. I've pulled it Way more than it was ever intended for, even with the tractor that is double the recommended max hp for, and never had to do anything but change worn out tines. I did a whole 2 mile Eventing cross country course with it, included a pass to de-rock it.

Once you stir up the ground down to the depth that the tiller will go, make another pass with the flap on the back tied up. It will then hit all the rocks, tossing them up in the air to land on top. We didn't want horses galloping, and jumping on ground with rocks in it. With the rocks on top, you can then go over it with a Harley Rake, and throw all the rocks over to one side.

[Jim Becker]

With the hydro, much like a riding lawnmower, you step on different pedals for forward, and reverse.

Two separate pedals are not universal for hydrostatic transmissions...some have a "rocker" type pedals for forward/reverse merely by moving your foot. That's how my little Kubota is and is likely limited to small machines that are designed to be very easy to use by homeowers. But most do have the dual pedal arrangement that you mention. Personally, I really like the hydrostatic operation. I can appreciate that for some kinds of "big tractor work", other arrangements might be better. Of course, with big farming, even the largest machines have migrated due to the need for computer control for speed/direction via GPS etc. But that's not and issue for the OP. LOL

[Tom M King]

Even those have geared transmissions though. The appeal of the hydro is that you don't have to use a clutch. There are tradeoffs that go along with that though. Using a clutch and shifting gears becomes second nature quickly.

They are putting hydros in larger tractors. The farmer I buy wheat straw from has what looks to be about a 50 hp Category 1 nice little Massey Ferguson with a cab. His family has been MF farmers for generations. Massey Ferguson has been great about trying to keep one of those tractors under him, but he's on the fourth one they've replaced, and he says it's been great for working around the pumpkins, but he's going back to a gear box model. He was pulling the square baler with the last one the day I picked up a load of wheat straw, and said it was about done too, even though it looked brand new.

[Ronald Blue]

This is not clear. Do you mean JD tractors don’t use the standard skid steer mount or do you mean JD skid steers don’t use the standard skid steer mount? Or both?

My JD skid steer uses the same mount as Bobcat, my Kubota tractor, and my Kubota tracked skid steer loader.

John Deere compact utility tractors have a different mount. They don't interchange with others. I know the JD skid steers use the industry standard mounting. Obviously they would be swimming against a well established standard if they tried to go a different direction. They don't have market dominance in the skid steer industry.

[John K Jordan]

The advice from the pros is if you are doing a lot of back and forth and maneuvering, such as in tight areas or things like digging, moving or loading piles of dirt or gravel or working with trees and logs the hydrostatic transmission will save a lot of time and effort. A friend with a standard transmission is always shifting, shifting, shifting while I just press on either the front or back of a foot lever. For a given engine RPM set with a hand lever or knob, the tractor increases speed as the foot lever is pressed further.

A disadvantage of the hydro is it will steal a little power from the engine. Another thing to get used to is if you start up a hill with a load the engine RPM and ground speed may drop, requiring backing off the control a bit to increase RPM and get back up on the power curve. No problem. I can switch into low/medium/high gears as needed. For use around my farm, the interactive maneuvering advantage of hydro far outweighs the disadvantage.

As mentioned, if I used the tractor primarily in the fields I'd go with the power shift. But another friend who does hay production (thousands of bales/year) has a hydro transmission on all of biggest tractor. Although much use is pulling a mower/balers etc, when it comes to stacking with a 10-bale grapple and loading hay on customer's trailers the hydro is highly useful for precision maneuvering. (I typically get 150 bales at a time which he can load in about 15-20 minutes with the grapple.)

My Kubota tractor hydro transmission has worked flawlessly for over about 5000 hours now. They only hydro motor I've heard of failing was when it was starved for hydraulic fluid due to a design flaw. It is important, of course, to change all fluids and filters according to schedule.

All diesel equipment I have except for my truck, have one or two hydrostatic drive motors: tractor, mowers, track hoe, skid steers, even the little diesel farm truck. The Dodge diesel truck has a stick shift, apparently hard to find these days in a new truck.

JKJ


Ronald, hydro instead of gear with power shift ( what's called shuttle shift by some, but same thing) is personal preference. I'll take a power shift any day over a hydro. But a power shift transmission is probably not even available on the little tractors.

For those that don't know, a hydrostatic transmission is sort of like an automatic transmission in a car. A power shift is a regular straight transmission, but forward to reverse can be changed with a lever to the left of the steering wheel, that you can flip back and forth with your little finger. You don't have to use the clutch with a shuttle shift/power shifter, and is great for loader work, or mowing around obstacles. With the hydro, much like a riding lawnmower, you step on different pedals for forward, and reverse.

A hydrostatic is constantly wearing itself, whereas the power shift is good for thousands of hours. You find hydros on small tractors and riding mowers, and power shifted transmissions on larger tractors.

[Ronald Blue]

Even those have geared transmissions though. The appeal of the hydro is that you don't have to use a clutch. There are tradeoffs that go along with that though. Using a clutch and shifting gears becomes second nature quickly.

They are putting hydros in larger tractors. The farmer I buy wheat straw from has what looks to be about a 50 hp Category 1 nice little Massey Ferguson with a cab. His family has been MF farmers for generations. Massey Ferguson has been great about trying to keep one of those tractors under him, but he's on the fourth one they've replaced, and he says it's been great for working around the pumpkins, but he's going back to a gear box model. He was pulling the square baler with the last one the day I picked up a load of wheat straw, and said it was about done too, even though it looked brand new.

They have put hydros in larger tractors for many years. Google an International 656 Hydro. It came out in 1967. The hydro 100 was their largest. 104 PTO horsepower. A friend of mine has the larger model 100 and he's had people try to buy it from him. Not sure what's going on with your straw guys tractors but it sounds like a design issue. I spent the last 20 years (until last October) dealing with large hydro units on equipment and they were very reliable. Changed far more mechanical components then pumps and motors. Differentials and gear transmissions driven by a drive motor. There are things that are hard on hydraulics though. For instance to high of gear creating a constant bypass (dumping over the relief) overheats a system quickly. If you have never ran a good hydro system you don't know what your missing. You modulate your speed infinitely as the task dictates and reverse almost instantly. Is it perfect of course not? They aren't the right choice in every task either. If you are going to go plow all day long then I'd prefer a gear drive power shift. Many larger tractors have CVT (IVT for JD) and that is a solution in higher horsepower tractors.

[Tom M King]

You don't have to constantly shift with a shuttle shift, or as called by other manufacturers, a power reverser. It's just a lever you can flip back, and forth with the little finger of your left hand. You can adjust the time it takes to shift from forward to reverse, and reverse to forward pretty easily. I have mine set for three seconds forward to reverse, to give me time to turn around and look, and about 2 seocnds for reverse to forward. It's not a harsh shift, and you don't have to touch the clutch. The faster you set the shift, the harsher it is. It locks the clutch up hard, so nothing ever gets unusually warm. The only trouble with it is after doing loader work for a while you'll get in the truck, look back over your shoulder, and activate the signal lever, expecting it to go in reverse.

It has both the standard lever accelerator, and a foot accelerator that can change rpm regardless of how you set the throttle lever. I use the foot accelerator a lot when doing loader work.

Ronald, what did people use that 656 for? I've never seen one. My large tractor is 117hp, and I can't imagine any advantage to having a hydro in that one. It has a reverser too.

My 70hp with reverser had 1800 hours on a broken hour meter when I bought it in 1991, and I'm sure I've put over a hundred hours a year on it since then, working hard most of the time. I just rebuilt the reverser on it about a year ago. It would be a good hydro to push as much dirt as this one has, and lasted as long. I rebuilt the reverser myself, whereas I would have to take a tractor somewhere to get them to fix a hydro transmission.

Are hydraulic drive motors the same as a hydrostatic transmission??

[Tom M King]

Here is one implement I built, that I don't think you can even find commercially. I built it for topdressing uneven ground into smooth, so I can cut the grass faster. This was just a prototype I built out of 3x3x3/16 angle iron. It won't even knock the top off of a Dandelion. It works great though. I could have built it out of 4z4z1/4", and moved more dirt at the time. The thing it's mounted to is a utility hitch from Tractor Supply, or maybe Agri Supply.

So far, it's working good enough not to have to make another variation.

It's strictly for topdressing with topsoil and sand, and not intended for grading. You can see the low area I filled in with it in the second picture. It fills in small depressions too. I expect the topsoil to sink some, but I can just keep adding it over the years until I can cut everything at high speed. It doesn't harm growing grass.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have a Kubota L225 that I bought in 1974 that I still use once in a while. I upgraded to a ford 1720 4 wheel dive with over size tires that gave me the ground speed that works well with my flail mower. The Kubota was ether to fast or to slow 4 th gear low was to slow and 1st gear high was to fast no in between. I did demo several tractors and the Ford fit my needs. The JD struggled with the mower and the next size up was just to big.

[Ronald Blue]

Ronald, hydro instead of gear with power shift ( what's called shuttle shift by some, but same thing) is personal preference. I'll take a power shift any day over a hydro. But a power shift transmission is probably not even available on the little tractors.

For those that don't know, a hydrostatic transmission is sort of like an automatic transmission in a car. A power shift is a regular straight transmission, but forward to reverse can be changed with a lever to the left of the steering wheel, that you can flip back and forth with your little finger. You don't have to use the clutch with a shuttle shift/power shifter, and is great for loader work, or mowing around obstacles. With the hydro, much like a riding lawnmower, you step on different pedals for forward, and reverse.

A hydrostatic is constantly wearing itself, whereas the power shift is good for thousands of hours. You find hydros on small tractors and riding mowers, and power shifted transmissions on larger tractors.

The advantage of a hydrostat is that you can ease off as you push into a pile with a loader and never slip a wheel. A gear drive even with reverser is constantly moving. Do you leave it a full throttle? I've never used a tractor with a reverser. As info the early ones required clutching though. The power reverser is a relatively new thing. Last 20 years maybe? Do they work the same as a backhoe with torque converter? They have a reverser as well and act more like an automatic transmission in a vehicle except for being able to switch from forward to reverse with the flick of a wrist. The draw back is they are gear sensitive and for loader work you are going to want to be in 1st or 2nd.

The pump on a hydrostatic system is a unique design. The piston style pump goes from 0 displacement to full displacement in either direction. The drive motor can also be variable displacement to maximize torque. The system can be load sensing and in effect be like going to a lower gear. This is accomplished either through a mechanical controller electrical controller. As for reliability I disagree that it's not reliable. Every John Deere dozer built today is hydrostatic. Even their largest 1050 at over 300 horsepower. A properly designed system is reliable. I know you like your JD stuff so I thought I would offer that as well.

[Tom M King]

The John Deere I have with a reverser is a 1979. I'm not sure when they started making them.

I never leave it at full throttle. For loader work, I'll leave the lever throttle set at high idle, and use the foot accelerator to increase rpms, and of course you can always completely disengage by pressing the clutch in. I expect it's the same as a backhoe, and that's probably where they started. It's not the same as a torque converter though. The controller valve is all hydraulic timed with pressure that you can adjust on a couple of springs.

I replaced every moving part, bearing, and seal in the forward clutch pack, and the reverse brake, all inside the reverser, and all the parts were less than a grand from John Deere. It really wasn't that difficult with a good Shop Manual, which John Deere has great ones.

I'm sure the newer ones are different than this old one. This one is fairly small, and goes in front of the transmission, and no such thing as electronics. The all hydraulic control box is to the side under the right foot platform. Those dozer boxes are huge.

I didn't say it was better, but I did say personal preference. I'm sticking with a reverser because I'm used to it, it works well, and I know how to work on them every four decades if needed. I've used the little Kubota's with a hydro, and while it was not really enough time to become second nature, I didn't like them as much as a reverser. Personal preference.

For fun, I've speced out some new tractors online, and a reverser is still the premium transmission on anything Category 2, and up.

[Tom M King]

Here's a picture of the reverser assembly opened up, with a pair of gloves for size reference. This for the 70hp tractor, and it hadn't been opened up since it was new in 1979, and used hard. This is the forward clutch pack that sits right behind the clutch (disk also seen in picture). There are a number of disks, and pressure plates in the forward clutch pack.

It really didn't have to be rebuilt, but I did since I had it opened up anyway. I had the John Deere dealer replace the clutch, and it never worked right. I found out by luck that they had put the pressure plate back in with bolts that were too long. I had thought mistakenly that it had to be a problem with the reverser, since the clutch was new.

[Tom M King]

To tie it back into woodworking, John Deere wanted several hundred dollars to make a new clutch alignment tool that was no longer in stock, and none of the plastic ones work for this setup, so I turned one on the wood lathe. The tractor couldn't have gone back together any easier. Lathe was in the middle of a shop move, and lathe tools were not here yet, so I used a dull carpenter chisel out of the truck. It was good enough.

I would have turned one out of aluminum, but I didn't have a chunk on hand.

[Ronald Blue]

To tie it back into woodworking, John Deere wanted several hundred dollars to make a new clutch alignment tool that was no longer in stock, and none of the plastic ones work for this setup, so I turned one on the wood lathe. The tractor couldn't have gone back together any easier. Lathe was in the middle of a shop move, and lathe tools were not here yet, so I used a dull carpenter chisel out of the truck. It was good enough.

I would have turned one out of aluminum, but I didn't have a chunk on hand.

Putting a clutch in without an alignment tool is a definite no go. Creative using wood though. Necessity is the mother of invention or so I've heard. Sounds like you do a lot of your own repairs. If you want something done right do it yourself as you learned with your improperly installed clutch pressure plate.

[Rich Riddle]

Don't even consider a tractor without a front end loader....BTW, something I'll never get for a tractor: a belly mower.
JKJThanks for the input. I see so many tractors for sale with only a belly mower and no front end loader. I own a 14 HP "tractor" with a belly mower that is used exclusively for cutting grass, so it's essentially a lawn mower. The irony is that I am having the Continental belly mower repaired this winter.

[John K Jordan]

To tie it back into woodworking, John Deere wanted several hundred dollars to make a new clutch alignment tool that was no longer in stock, and none of the plastic ones work for this setup, so I turned one on the wood lathe… …


Hey, thanks for a memory that had escaped my aging brain. A few decades ago I was changing a clutch in my old Datsun pickup and realized how hard it was to align the replacement, especially while flat on my back under the thing. I had a little mostly-worthless Craftsman tube lathe and decided a wooden alignment tool might work. It worked perfectly!

BTW, the body of that truck was a crumpled mess. When I told a friend I’d bought it new he said “so you did all that to it yourself?!" I never put one dent in it myself but the thing must have been a magnet for people to run into when parked!

JKJ

[Bill Dufour]

One great thing about a real tractor is there is an actual legal definition of horsepower. Not like a sears garden tractor horsepower. I am not sure how asian tractors get rated for horsepower but I would be surprised if they do not just use the Nebraska horsepower test like all north american makers. I believe there is a slightly different metric horsepower test from Germany.
For several decades after WW2 Porsche sold the most tractors in Europe. Not sure when Lamborgini started. Satoh Tractor of japan started in 1914. My brother had one so I learned that. Mitsubishi bought them out in 1980. I think mitsubishi closed down tractor making.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

Bill, remember, that just like with automobiles, tractor brands' production and parts content is very variable when it comes to physical location and sourcing. Kubota's sold in the US are made in Georgia. Some of Deere's smaller stuff is made elsewhere. It's a global business at this point. There's a remarkably short list of small diesel engine manufacturers that the various tractor brands use, too.

[Bill Dufour]

I do not believe any tractor under 50 hp is made in N. America anymore.
I have read horror stories of "rebuilt" tractor from Vietnam. New paint, new decals, rolled back hour meter and a mismash of used parts to make one that runs long enough to sell it. They buy worn out broken ones too bad to sell as used from Japan.
Bill D

[Ronald Blue]

I do not believe any tractor under 50 hp is made in N. America anymore.
I have read horror stories of "rebuilt" tractor from Vietnam. New paint, new decals, rolled back hour meter and a mismash of used parts to make one that runs long enough to sell it. They buy worn out broken ones too bad to sell as used from Japan.
Bill D

I believe those were referred to as "gray market" machines. I looked into some many years ago. As I recall the biggest issue is even if they were for instance Kubota it was a model that was never sold here. It looked like it could be really sketchy sourcing parts.

[Ronald Blue]

I do not believe any tractor under 50 hp is made in N. America anymore.
I have read horror stories of "rebuilt" tractor from Vietnam. New paint, new decals, rolled back hour meter and a mismash of used parts to make one that runs long enough to sell it. They buy worn out broken ones too bad to sell as used from Japan.
Bill D

John Deere compact utilities are made in Georgia. Many of their diesel models use Yanmar engines.

[Jim Becker]

I do not believe any tractor under 50 hp is made in N. America anymore.

That's very untrue as has been noted about the two biggest names in compact tractors...Deere and Kubota.

[Scott T Smith]

We have a small farm.....and it appears as though you need decent tractors, other wheeled vehicles, implements, etc. to have a small farm. What tractor do you have, what size, and what attachments or implements do you find most useful?

Lots of great advice from others in this thread. In my instance, currently 4 tractors from 22 - 65hp, plus skid steers, backhoe, zero turn, etc. The 30hp and 65 hp tractors have FEL's, the 22 and 50hp ones don't.

My advice - for a FEL you need 4WD.

If you go FEL, get one with the universal skid steer attachment system. That vastly increases your choices for FEL attachments, and makes it easy to swap between them.

For many "agricultural" types of work, such as bush hogging, ray raking, pulling a seeder, etc, our pure Ag type New Holland 3010S 55hp tractor is the first choice. It does not have a FEL, and is the best tractor for field work.

I've also been very pleased with our Kioti DK65C tractor. It has the FEL and is 4WD with R4 industrial type tires. It's more of a "construction" tractor than an Ag tractor, and is a good multi-purpose machine.

The 33hp John Deere 970 is the one that my wife uses around the horse barn. It has a FEL but is 2wd and is easy for her to operate. It's a little low HP for pulling a 6' bush hog.

For road maintenance, we use the heck out of our Agritek DS72 driveway scraper. It's probably the single most used 3 point hitch implement we have. Before I bought the dozer and motor grader, I used both straight and box blades quite a bit with the tractors, but not so much since then.

For fence posts, a skid steer mount hydraulic auger works well. I've used mine with the Kioti in addition to the skid steer.

A UTV is very handy to have around the farm too.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I have 51 acres, raise cattle and the only crop I deal with is hay. I have a 4wdr 55 hp Mahindra. It has an FEL, but it is too light for real dirt work. For that I have a John Deere 210C back hoe loader. Yellow industrial machine. The hydraulic cylinders are x as thick as the mahindra, the metal on the bucket is thicker. The lift booms and arms are three times heavier built. An ag tractor is for ag work, not for dirt and rock work, unless you live in southern Delaware where it is all sand. Always go bigger than you think you will need. I do depend on my machines to plow snow off the 98 ft driveway. A cab with heat and air, is good. I don't even fire up the tractor to feed the stock. I use a 4wdr ATV and pull a small trailer that will hold 10 bales of hay.