Bit Brace question

[JOEL MONGEON]

Hello and thanks for any input.

I bought a 3 jaw bit brace last year from Lee Valley https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/drills/32300-two-and-three-jaw-chuck-braces
and had a few questions.

Is there a size limit to how bit of an auger bit you can use with a brace? If so, how large would it be?

Last year I was making a low Roman workbench and bought my brace and a 1 1/2" wood owl bit https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/power-tool-accessories/drill-bits/75748-wood-owl-bits?item=60J0124 to create the holes for the workbenches legs.

About half way through the first hole my bit started to slip in the brace. I tightened the brace chuck as much as possible but not matter how tight it was the bit kept slipping. I ended up using a hammer drill I have to finish the job. I'm now looking at my brace and see that the chuck jaws look a bit stripped or worn. Same with the wood owl bit I used.

Is this normal? I was drilling into construction lumber not hardwood. Was I just asking too much from a brace? Or should I look for another brace like what Bridge City makes? The brace I have still works with smaller brad point bits but what I wanted was to use it to bore large holes. This is my first brace so I'm not familiar with what to expect. Thanks.

Attached are a few photos of what I am seeing.
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[Scott Clausen]

The bit shaft in the last picture is not the classic square end of a bit for a brace. It is designed for modern chuck jaws used in electric drills, sorry.

[JOEL MONGEON]

Thanks Scott. I thought the 3 jaw chuck would work for hex shank bits. The description on Lee Valley was pretty clear

"The standard three-jaw chuck model accepts round shanks from 7/64" to 19/32" in diameter and all standard hex-shank bits."

I guess it "could" work but maybe not on such large bits.

[Jason Buresh]

Well, even in softwood 1-1-2" is no joke with a brace. When you get that big something like a beam drill or a t handle auger would have probably been used traditionally. Most SETS of vintage auger bits I have seen go up to about 1".

That said I don't think the jaws should have deformed like that. I'm not a toolmaker, but I would think they should be harder than that.

I don't personally have any experience with wood owl bits. While that type of shank will work with a 3 jaw chuck, I have found the tapered square shank on vintage auger bits much better.

If I were to attempt something like this, I probably would find a 2 jaw brace that accepts the tapered square shank, and buy the 3/8" socket adapter from Lee valley. I would then find a socket that fits the shank of the drill bit and drive it using that. It would have more surface area in contact with the shank than the chuck alone. You would have to be careful though as the socket would not grip the shank, so you would need a sacrificial board underneath or to be mindful of holding onto the bit as you near the end. If the bit slipped through the hole and landed in the floor it would most certainly damage the lead screw.

Of course the easiest and fastest way is to use a power drill like you did.

[steven c newman]

Irwin did make some nice Expansive bits for a brace...dial a diameter as needed. Last one I used was to drill a mounting hole through the front porch railing for the Deck Umbrella...Used a 12" sweep Samson chucked brace (PEXTO No. 8012).....
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Set to the radius of the hole you want to drill...

[JOEL MONGEON]

Irwin did make some nice Expansive bits for a brace...dial a diameter as needed. Last one I used was to drill a mounting hole through the front porch railing for the Deck Umbrella...Used a 12" sweep Samson chucked brace (PEXTO No. 8012).....
472843
Set to the radius of the hole you want to drill...

That's pretty cool Steven. Thanks, I'll try to find one.

In the meantime, I'm making a shave horse and needed to bore some 3/4" holes. I'm too lazy to dig out my hammer drill so I gave my brace another try with a 3/4" wood owl auger bit. That worked like a charm. I guess I'll save the 1 1/2" auger bit for a power drill from now on. I see Lee valley does sell the 3/8" socket adapter. I'll take a look for a 7/16" hex shank socket online. I prefer using the brace to my big hammer drill. I do have a regular driver that I let my mother in law borrow. Maybe I'll see if she's done with it.

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Oh Hey, Lee Valley sells an expansive bit: https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/drills/67385-adjustable-drill-bit?item=72J0320

Edit: Actually I think I'll give this adapter a try from Tay Tools: https://taytools.com/collections/tools-drilling-boring-auger-bits/products/woodowl-11-piece-set-3-8-to-1-by-1-16ths-x-7-1-2-tricut-ultra-smooth-auger-bits

[Richard Line]

I'm on board with the above comments. Here is another thought that may be applicable. The bit may not have been ejecting the shavings well enough to keep the forces under control. I've found a number of times that I needed to back the bit out, clean the shaving off and go again. Yes, I've even read advise about doing that as the hole gets deeper. When the turning force builds up, it is time to consider if the shavings need to be cleared out.

[Jason Buresh]

That's pretty cool Steven. Thanks, I'll try to find one.

In the meantime, I'm making a shave horse and needed to bore some 3/4" holes. I'm too lazy to dig out my hammer drill so I gave my brace another try with a 3/4" wood owl auger bit. That worked like a charm. I guess I'll save the 1 1/2" auger bit for a power drill from now on. I see Lee valley does sell the 3/8" socket adapter. I'll take a look for a 7/16" hex shank socket online. I prefer using the brace to my big hammer drill. I do have a regular driver that I let my mother in law borrow. Maybe I'll see if she's done with it.

472850

Oh Hey, Lee Valley sells an expansive bit: https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/drills/67385-adjustable-drill-bit?item=72J0320

Edit: Actually I think I'll give this adapter a try from Tay Tools: https://taytools.com/collections/tools-drilling-boring-auger-bits/products/woodowl-11-piece-set-3-8-to-1-by-1-16ths-x-7-1-2-tricut-ultra-smooth-auger-bits

That adapter with the screw is a good option, but I would verify your three jaw chuck can take a tapered square shank, or that you have a brace that can.

Also, not all but shanks are the same size. I would measure that your bit is compatible with one of the sizes they offer.

I offer this as friendly advice.

[Jim Koepke]

It is hard for me to imagine a three jaw chuck slipping off the flats of a hex shaped end on a bit.

They have slipped for me on round ends. Surely the round ends have done that for others as it seems to be the case with many bit that have been bought used.

For some of my bigger auger bits, up to a #24 (1-1/2"), my braces with a 12 or 14" swing are used.

jtk

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I do not have a brace anymore. Mine were 2 jaw for square shanks. I have read about barefoot augers where the threads on the lead screw are filed off so you can bore at your own pace. Even with one of those I think 1 1/2 inch would be a challenge. I have been wondering how deep one could drill with a brace. I just salvaged a bolt from a very old Railway bridge that is almost 4 feet long. My grandpa sure could spin a brace. He had some long bits. I do not think any were more than 1 inch.

[Derek Cohen]

To use wide auger bits with a brace, first drill a pilot hole a smidgeon smaller than the lead screw. Ensure that the cutting edges of the auger are sharp.

What the pilot hole does is make for less work for the lead screw. That is generally where issues occur when the wood is hard and the bit is wide (and the cutting edges are sharp).

Pilot hole into hard Jarrah ...

https://i.postimg.cc/Gh2q9NDt/8a.jpg

3/4" wide auger bit in a Bell System brace (works well with hex shanks) ...

https://i.postimg.cc/TY4Qb9j9/9a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/pdHnghY8/16a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I do not have a brace anymore. Mine were 2 jaw for square shanks. I have read about barefoot augers where the threads on the lead screw are filed off so you can bore at your own pace. Even with one of those I think 1 1/2 inch would be a challenge. I have been wondering how deep one could drill with a brace. I just salvaged a bolt from a very old Railway bridge that is almost 4 feet long. My grandpa sure could spin a brace. He had some long bits. I do not think any were more than 1 inch.

My largest brace has a 14" swing:

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That can drive a pretty big bit, slowly.

The commonly found 10" swing brace is in the center.

The brace on the left offers great leverage. As Derek mentions a pilot hole helps a lot. Another helper is to wax the bit.

There are also Tee handles for larger bits:

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This is likely what was used to bore holes in beams and such.

In my early days with the phone company installers had to attend climbing school. One of our assignments was to drill a 1/2" or 3/4" hole, can't remember which, through a telephone pole twenty feet in the air supported by climbing spikes and a safety belt. Then we had to hang a cross arm on it. Being young helped.

jtk

[Charles Taylor]

Being young helped.


Words that become more relatable in more ways every day.

[Luke Dupont]

Are three jaw chucks really the best for holding hex bits?

I only have an egg beater drill (3 jaw) and a 2 jaw brace to compare, but it seems that my egg beater drill has more issues with hex bits than my 2 jaw brace. The angle of the flats on the hex bits don't quite line up right with a three jaw chuck I think...

I might be wrong, though.

In any case, really large bits like that can be a real challenge.

I found that adjustable expansive bits are actually easier to drill with because they have only one cutter, meaning less resistance.

Drilling a pilot hole as mentioned above helps too.

Also try sharpening the bit. Even modern bits straight from the factory often come ground very roughly and even dullish, and can be greatly improved with a simple file or credit card sized diamond stone.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have not checked the past threads but I hope there is one on auger bits, power drills, and safety. Hole-saws too in a strong drill motor are very dangerous. I have been using a SDS drill with a chuck adaptor and 3 jaw Jacobs 1/2 inch chuck. The SDS drill has a clutch and is less likely to send you to the floor or hospital or both. A nice thing about a brace is that you are very aware of the forces involved.

[steven c newman]

For the really LARGE bits...you might want to try a Breast Drill....like a Goodell Pratt.

Largest auger bit it the till? a #20...which is the main reason there is a Stanley 14" brace in the til.

Most 2 jaw braces will hold a hex shaft quite nicely. Most 3 jaw chucks were made to grip the round part of a bit's shank.

3jaw chucks....just look at the chuck on your corded or cordless drill next time you use a hex shanked bit....

[Jim Koepke]

Being young helped.

jtk


Words that become more relatable in more ways every day.

You don't have to tell me. Tried starting my chain saw yesterday. The cord would come out less than a foot. Took it to the shop for service. Big young guy started it up with just a few pulls.

That made me feel old fast.

At least there was no charge and only a few laughs.

jtk

[Richard Hart]

That's pretty cool Steven. Thanks, I'll try to find one.


Look on Facebook marketplace. I've had success getting local listing folks to ship.

If you can find a Yankee 2101 brace, that grips bits like a vise but I fashioned a hex adapter for mine out of an old magnetic screwdriver. I just chuck that in and everybody's happy. ��

[Russell Nugent]

I have a couple of those braces hanging in my storage room, where I keep my nice big power drill for drilling those same bolt holes.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

Not that you need my support but I generally agree. I have a Yankee 2101 brace with 10” sweep. I have used it to drill 1-1/2” holes. I do it with a pilot hole like Derek mentioned. But I’ll tell you, the experience left me searching for a new brace with 14” sweep!

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

My 2101 works with hex bits just fine. All my auger bits are WoodOwl

[steven c newman]

I have a Stanley 14" sweep....along with the Samson chucked Peck,Stow & Wilcox 12" sweep.
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When you need to reach out and touch something a bit farther away..
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Something to turn them with..
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Plus a Fray style..
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[Stephen Rosenthal]

In my early days with the phone company installers had to attend climbing school. One of our assignments was to drill a 1/2" or 3/4" hole, can't remember which, through a telephone pole twenty feet in the air supported by climbing spikes and a safety belt. Then we had to hang a cross arm on it. Being young helped.

jtk

Years ago I was talking with a linesman after he descended a pole with a 2101 Whimble Brace. I knew they existed but had never seen one before in the wild. He told me Whimbles were very popular with linesmen because of the leverage obtained when boring big holes high up on the pole. Not that I need one, but I’ve seen a few listed for sale and, like most vintage hand tools these days, they are pricey. I’m surprised no one mentioned it.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

My Grandpa spent the first 20 years of his carpentry career without electricity. He was on the Iowa state legislature and advocated to get electricity to his and other rural farms. He, by himself, set the poles and ran the wires 13 miles from the farm to the nearest main line. What he could accomplish with hand tools amazes me. (he is the one that could really spin a brace)

[Jim Koepke]

He, by himself, set the poles and ran the wires 13 miles from the farm to the nearest main line.

This is an interesting bit about how rural life was a century or so ago Maurice. Having worked for a utility at one time and knowing things are done different in different states, it amazes me to consider this. If your grandpa's line supplied other subscribers he may have been paid a royalty or other renumeration for its use.

With him being on the state legislature it would surprise me if he wasn't getting something out of his effort for what he put in.

jtk

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Howard Vincent, he was an unselfish person. I inherited some of his old tools. They are all so worn-down that they mostly hang on the wall. My cousin got his pole climbing spurs and boots. He helped connected Wane County and a several others in south central Iowa. I know he got to ride a special train to Chicago for a Science, Trade, and Industry conference.

[Tom Bender]

Maybe we are seeing it differently but to me it looks like you inserted the bit past the hex on the bit.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Tom has good eyes. Those do look like jaw marks up on the round part.

[William Fretwell]

Checked on eBay, they are pricey. My Re-Store has them for $4, bought two recently and restored them as gifts. Classic quality saws are often $3. Need to shop around!