Finish For Kitchen Table

[Ed Gibbons]

Using oak for a table top. What would be the best finish. Obviously the table will get extensive use. Thanks.

[Jim Becker]

It would be a good thing for you to let folks know what your application capabilities are since that's going to influence recommendations. If you can spray, it opens up more options; if not, then the suggestions will be different. If you intend to use any coloration, that's also important to understand as it will affect your finishing regimen.

[Ed Gibbons]

I have an earlex sprayer. I do plan on darkening the oak. Lately I have been making my own wipe-on-poly.

[Prashun Patel]

i have used Target Waterbased Conversion Varnish with the cross linker (EM8000CV) in flat sheen.

To be fair, some reputable experts have had issues with its durability - in their tests.

But I will tell you that I have it on my kitchen island and my kitchen table, and it is flawless. Both get very heavy use, and both have had numerous spills and abrasions.

I've only sprayed this product (your Earlex will be fine).

There is a thread here about Rubio Monocoat which seems like a very easy to apply and durable coating. I would search that up too.

[Andrew Seemann]

Kitchen tables take a lot of abuse. I'd probably go with the wipe on poly, especially since you have experience with it, and it is really durable, resistant to most everything, and is easy to apply.

I went through the same questions with my cherry kitchen table. I had recently gotten a Fuji MM4, and read about all the neat finishes that the cool kids were spraying. In the end though, I chickened out and went with 3 coats of wiped-on, thinned Minwax poly over a coat of SealCoat, mostly because I knew it would work and that I could apply it without messing it up. And I didn't have to deal with overspray in the shop during winter.

[Prashun Patel]

I refinished the same kitchen table for my friend with Minwax Poly, then 2 years later, Enduro Clear Poly, then 2 years later, Target 8000. The target has lasted the longest without marks or scratches.

YMMV.

[John TenEyck]

If you want a film finish it's hard to beat the EM-8000CV, but it needs to cure for at least a month for full durability, at least that's what my testing suggested. My only complaint about EM-8000CV is the color is sort of yellow on some woods and it forced me to change my dye scheme to accommodate the color shift it imparts.

Another really good film finish is Minwax Oil Modified Waterborne Poly. Goes on beautifully and is very durable after curing.

If you want a durable non film forming finish and are OK with a matte/flat sheen (no shine) Rubio Monocoat is a pretty amazing product. It comes in many colors, too, and you likely would not need any other coloring process. It's stupid simple to apply. It was VERY durable in my testing. And, unlike any film finish I've used, it can be repaired easily and invisibly.

John

[Scott Winners]

I am going to try jut hot water and soap and occasional bleach on an upcoming piece of shop furniture with a white oak top. I have an oak dining table in my office that has been in my family for 5 generations. It was last refinished by my mom and I in the 1970s using some kind of clear film finish that made me high as a kite when we applied it in a well ventilated barn, practically outdoors. Whatever that poly was, I am sure it is illegal to buy now.

I will probably have to keep the family table in clear film. One thing I have done is have two pieces of tempered glass cut and finished. One of them fits on the table top with no leaves installed, the other fits the table top with all 3 leaves installed. It is fairly easy to keep the glass clean so I can see through it and the clear film finish to see the oak below, and the glass keeps a LOT of crud off the film finish.

I have no idea how long it takes to establish a good looking bleach finish, but I intend to find out. I like the idea of being able to apply hot water and occasionally a clothes iron to raise bruised areas back up to flush.

[Ed Gibbons]

Prashun,
I’m going to give em8000cv a shot. Can you give me some suggestions on the application process?

Thanks.

[Prashun Patel]

First, try to get a coupon from Target.
I have only experience with the Satin and the Matte sheens in this product. I recommend either.
Buy the Cross linker. Jeff@Target has a video about how to mix the CL into the topcoat. I'd do it the night before. Measure (reasonably) carefully and drizzle it in while stirring. Continue to stir for a minute after.
Let the mixed product sit for the night and shoot the next day. The product will stay in a sealed cup fresh for at least a week (in my experience).

You should experiment, but I find it's hard to mess up. Aim for a wet coat to get smooth results. It dries slower than shellac or lacquer, so you CAN go over a spot again, but I'd resist that on a large surface like a table. My point is, on a smaller object, I've been able to dial back the volume and go over it a few times to get a wet coat instead of having to rely on a single pass. Just experiment with it. Even when I've put on too much, it's almost always dried fine.

If you DO put on too thick a coat, wait over night before putting on another. Otherwise you can recoat within an hour. The reason I say this is bkz I've gotten crazing when putting on a new coat over a not-quite dry coat.

If you want some color, I have had success putting on an initial coat of waterlox or shellac -thin. In this case, leave it dry overnight so all the solvent of the under coat can evaporate. Yes, I said Waterlox. I haven't had any issues with putting this wb product on the oilbased wlox.

Give it a long time to cure - like John says. My daughter put a hot cup of coffee on my walnut island soon after I finished it, and it got a milky haze. It ultimately went away, but John Ten Eyk has done some tests that I trust about how this product takes longer than the quoted 5 days from the manufacturer. you can certainly use it after a day or two, but treat it with kid gloves for a month or as long as you can.


All this being said, you really should search up the Rubio Monocoat thread. It's an expensive product, but the experience of the users there has been SO overwhelmingly positive, I will confidently be switching my next project to use this.

I dunno. Maybe my success and the other guys' success with monocoat has more to do with the sheen being matte than anything else. Can't tell.

Good luck!

[Ed Gibbons]

Prashun,
I plan on staining before I put the topcoat on. Any problem using an oil based stain?

I really appreciate the feedback. BTW, based upon your recommendation, I have made a few trips to Horizon Wood Products to purchase wood.

[Prashun Patel]

Oh I can’t speak to the oil based stain. I would give that a long time to dry before top coating with target.

[Jim Becker]

You can use the oil based pigment stain (which is very common for oak) but it must be fully cured before you spray the EM8000cv (or any other waterborne) over it. You can have some extra comfort by spraying a thin battier coat of wax free shellac, too, and that can make the wait a lot shorter.

The recommendation to get on Target's mailing list for the discounts is really good advice. Those typical 20% discounts more than cover shipping cost. BTW, the EM8000cv now shipping has an updated/improved formula based on an email I received the other day.

[John TenEyck]

Here's the EM-8000CV tech data sheet: https://www.targetcoatings.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/TC_TechDataSheet_EM8000CV_R3.pdf

John

[Ed Gibbons]

Here is my finishing schedule for quarter sawn oak:
1. Sand to 220
2. Miniwax oil stain
3. Wait 2 days
4. Coat of dewaxed shellac
5. Spray em8000 with crosslink

Let me know your thoughts.

[Prashun Patel]

4. THIN coat of dewaxed shellac
4.5 Wait ~1 day between shellac and Target. While we'd like to think shellac dries fast, i have found that a thick coat can dry deceptively slow. That can be a problem when topcoating with something other than shellac. (I had this problem with a previous generation of Target product about 10 years ago.).

I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth. It's EASY to apply, but I have had a couple of gotchas over the years. All this is to say, just test out your regimen beginning to end on some scrap - or at least on the underside of your table.

[Jim Becker]

Here is my finishing schedule for quarter sawn oak:
1. Sand to 220
2. Miniwax oil stain
3. Wait 2 days
4. Coat of dewaxed shellac
5. Spray em8000 with crosslink

Let me know your thoughts.

Works for me as long as the temps are good for curing both the oil stain and the EM8000cv.

Prashun is spot on regarding the shellac...very thin coat. Just enough to be the barrier. No more. Shellac should always be used in the thinnest overall coating as possible.

[John TenEyck]

All good advice.

None of these potential problems exist with Rubio Monocoat. I just used it again the other day on a walnut project. One application and done. A few hours later it can be handled. A few days later it's fully cured. Easy to apply; easy to repair if ever needed. For a matte finish this stuff is the clear winner for me.

[Prashun Patel]

Btw, John, I got a sample of Rubio and did a serving tray and bowl with it. It was a joy to apply. Smells great and impossible to mess up. I’ve never seen a varnish/wax before. Is that what this is? It’s hard to believe it will polymerize hard enough to provide lasting protection. But we will see!

[Jim Becker]

Prashun, I'm still trying to really understand the concept of a hard-wax oil because until recently, they were "less of a thing" in our geography. The first I saw them used was while watching projects by a guy in Belgium on the 'Tube a few years ago. That was before Rubio and Osmo, etc., hit the market here visibly. I plan on trying them "real soon now" for a project or three, once I have a shop to work in that's more amenable to finishing.

[John TenEyck]

I'm not quite sure what's in RM Prashun. The product literature says plant based but nothing beyond that and there is no SDS to be found so who knows. But it definitely polymerizes - just leave some left over 2C in a cup and look at it the next day. What really matters is it works and works really well. I, too, doubt that it will have the wear resistance of a top end film finish, but it's so easy to repair and refresh that that is almost of no consequence. Repairs blend in invisibly with the surrounding area.

Essentially no talent required to use it - I like that, easy to repair, very durable. Other than the limited sheen it's a winner. The only downside is limited shelf life once you open the container. Even with Bloxygen it started to gel after a few weeks. Maybe putting it in the freezer would help.

One of these days I'm going to look at Osmo Polyox which comes in higher sheens.

John