Newbie with a a question about Cherry.

[Greg Utterback]

Starting up retirement hobby and am currently working on a slab of Cherry. My question is, are the areas perpendicular to the grain in the photo natural or should they be sanded out? Thanks 472004

[Andrew Hughes]

That’s a natural feature of wood called curl. Some consider it a great thing some don’t.
I like it.
Good Luck

[Stan Calow]

Google curly cherry and see how some people use this (and pay a premium for it) as a design feature and finish it to enhance the curl.

[Phil Gaudio]

Greg: that is a terrible board, send it to me and I will dispose of it properly:). Seriously, you want as much of that as you can find! Get working! Phil

[Erik Loza]

That's a nice board! If you did not already know this, cherry fades significantly if exposed to sunlight. Just something to be aware of. Good luck with your project.

Erik

[Doug Garson]

A good way to check if further sanding is required is wipe the surface with mineral spirits. Any imperfections will become more visible and the surface will look like it will when an oil based finish is applied. Like others have said that looks like curl, when finished it gives a 3d look to the surface.

[Doug Garson]

That's a nice board! If you did not already know this, cherry fades significantly if exposed to sunlight. Just something to be aware of. Good luck with your project.

Erik
Erik, I think you have it backwards, doesn't cherry darken with light exposure?

[Erik Loza]

Erik, I think you have it backwards, doesn't cherry darken with light exposure?

Doug, yes! Not enough coffee today. Thanks for the correction.

Erik

[Zachary Hoyt]

I like the look of cherry better after it has darkened, but others may not, I don't know. One thing to think about is if you make a table out of the cherry don't leave something always in the same place on it, like a vase in the exact center or a toaster by the wall or whatever because it will leave a pale spot when you do move it. Just shuffle things around from time to time and it will even out.

[John TenEyck]

Doug, yes! Not enough coffee today. Thanks for the correction.

Erik


Actually, you were right the first time. All woods will bleach out if exposed to enough direct sunlight. Cherry initially darkens, but if the exposure continues it will get lighter, and eventually be almost colorless. Hard to imagine until you see. I have.

John

[Ron Citerone]

Actually, you were right the first time. All woods will bleach out if exposed to enough direct sunlight. Cherry initially darkens, but if the exposure continues it will get lighter, and eventually be almost colorless. Hard to imagine until you see. I have.

John

John, I have cherry furniture I built 38 years ago and it has only darkened and never lightened. Are you talking about really old antiques?

[Sean Nagle]

John is correct. If left in full sunlight for long enough. It will bleach out to where the dark heartwood will be as light as the sap wood.

[Greg Funk]

John is correct. If left in full sunlight for long enough. It will bleach out to where the dark heartwood will be as light as the sap wood.

20 year old shutters in my office. The one on the right shows the side normally exposed to a north exposure. No direct sunlight but definitely faded over time.
472034

[John TenEyck]

John, I have cherry furniture I built 38 years ago and it has only darkened and never lightened. Are you talking about really old antiques?

Doesn't have to be an antique, as Greg shows below, just direct sunlight. I first saw it in a house not even 20 years old in Germany that had floor to ceiling south facing windows. The sun had bleached the cherry stairway so light that I thought it was maple until the owner told me it was cherry. When I looked around the side where the sun couldn't hit it, sure enough, it had the typical cherry color.

The sun bleaches the color out of any wood given enough time with direct exposure. Dual UV protection finishes were developed to help combat this problem with indoor furniture and cabinets. There's one UV system, often based on tin, that helps prevent the finish itself from aging and another called HALS (Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers maybe) that protects the underlying wood.

John

[mike stenson]

If they were stained or dyed, that bleaches a lot more than the actual wood (in the case of cherry) does IME.

[Johannes Becker]

Domestic (black) cherry and European (sweet) cherry wood are actually quite different. European cherry is much lighter in the first place, only a little darker than domestic maple. I am attaching a picture of some finished piece of European cherry.

472039

From some research it appears that domestic cherry is mostly species of prunus serotina whereas European cherry is species of prunus avium. I don't doubt that both bleach out if exposed to enough sunlight like in outside exposure. However, European Cherry has a very different starting position.

[Prashun Patel]

Unscientifically:

I made a writing desk made of wood that looks exactly like your board in color and curl. FWIW, this has been in near a window for about 8 years and the color got a little more golden/orange, but has not faded in the least yet.

472040

[John TenEyck]

If they were stained or dyed, that bleaches a lot more than the actual wood (in the case of cherry) does IME.


That depends upon what type of dye or stain was used. Some stains are very light stable and will protect the wood they are applied to from fading. Many common interior wood stains fall into this category. The metal complex dyes (Transtint, et al) also are very resistant to fading.

John

[mike stenson]

That depends upon what type of dye or stain was used. Some stains are very light stable and will protect the wood they are applied to from fading. Many common interior wood stains fall into this category. The metal complex dyes (Transtint, et al) also are very resistant to fading.

John
Agreed.. but it's one of those things where .. there are just too many variables to say a specific yes/no ;) Especially for woods that "suntan". I have some 20 year old cherry tables that have done nothing but darken, and you know.. Arizona isn't exactly devoid of UV. In fact, the carpet it sat on was bleached.

I'd have to check, but I recall also some dark antique furniture my parents owned that also hadn't bleached.

[Lee Schierer]

I have some cherry that was milled over 70 years ago and stored in a barn that is dark all the way through the pieces. It does not get darker when exposed to light. Here's a piece I recently used.
472059

[Carl Beckett]

A small (2 of them) cabinet I did from some figured cherry. These are circa 2000, so just over 20 years old. Believe it was simple watco Danish, then from time to time some tried and true finish. 472062472063

They sit by a window so you see a bit more darkening and some of the figure is lost.

A bigger thing to watch out for is if you leave something sitting on the top while the rest is exposed, you will get a light spot underneath it since it does not see sunlight.

[David Utterback]

That is a very nice cherry board. How wide and thick is it? Welcome aboard, brother!

[Rich Engelhardt]

Here's a piece I recently used.
https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=472059&d=1639584341&thumb=1 (https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=472059&d=1642791677)
Man you do good work!
That hound looks so real it's hard to imagine it's made out of Cherry! What did you use for the white? ( ;) )

On topic - I love Cherry. Probably my favorite wood.

[Robert Engel]

Does dyed wood fade more than stained?

[Erik Loza]

When I first moved to Austin, I made a simple bookcase out of some solid cherry we had laying around the Minimax USA shop. Nothing fancy, just finished with BLO or perhaps tung. Don't exactly recall. Later on, it lived on the front porch and got a fair amount of sun. You can see it in the far left corner of the photo below. It did fade but parts stayed dark. I guess the moral of the story: "Sunlight does things to cherry that you may or may not find desirable, depending on your taste and depending on the project".

Erik
472100

[Jim Becker]

Cherry is one of my most favorite species to work with. I will say that I find it to be a best practice to acquire quite a bit more than is called for so there is enough material to carefully sort for grain and color so that the "show" pieces of the project meet any expectations of uniformity. No two trees produce identical color and while things mostly get close over time with oxidation and UV, if you want a uniform color, start out that way. (The same holds true for air dried nor non-steamed KD walnut)

That board in the OP is a very nice figured piece of cherry and would be quite expensive from most sources.

[Ron Citerone]

Cherry is one of my most favorite species to work with. I will say that I find it to be a best practice to acquire quite a bit more than is called for so there is enough material to carefully sort for grain and color so that the "show" pieces of the project meet any expectations of uniformity. .

Jim, i will add a thought that took me too long to realize, but I now I know. With cherry, and other woods as well, Having a list or sketches of the "show" pieces established before you purchase the wood is huge. For gluing up a side or top, try to pick a board with enough wood to make the glue up from that one piece. Also with drawers that are side by side, as on a buffet, try to find a piece wide enough so no glue up is needed and also long enough that you can keep the original orientation. Then the drawer fronts show a continuum from the original board. When I look at my older pieces, when I didn't think about stuff like that compared to my more recent stuff when I did, it makes a huge difference.

I'm sure experienced woodworkers know this, but would like to pass it on to any people just getting into making furniture.

[Jim Becker]

Ron, I like to do similar things when selecting material, whether it's in my head or written down. Grain and color matching before you even start building is the first and one of the most important steps in the finishing process. Many of us started out with just acquiring material by board foot which gets the build done, but doesn't necessarily make for a stunning end result. Good material selection can be and is the difference between a great result and a totally amazing and eye catching result.

[John TenEyck]

Does dyed wood fade more than stained?

I'm pretty sure stains made from inorganic pigments will remain stable longer than dyes, although some dyes are quite light stable, too. The benefit of stain with regards to light stability is that the pigment sits on the wood so it shields it. With dye I don't think that's the case because the dye is in the wood. I know of many exterior rated stain products but not one exterior rated dye.

John

[Jim Dwight]

My cherry furniture is all less than 10 years old and is darkening, not bleaching out. But I made some cherry furniture for my daughter more than 10 years ago and one piece, their breakfast table may have bleached out on the top. It got light for some reason. I don't think they abuse it but it could also be a reaction to a cleaning product, I guess. I noticed it when visiting but did not realize it could be sun bleaching. It is not real even.

I agree completely with the comments that there is a lot of variation in cherry. I have two coffee tables in my great room with cherry tops and they look like they are made of different woods. Each top is consistent within the top, however. I selected boards to get that result. I wonder if the sun bleaching may be a bit board dependent too.

Maybe the lack of consistency and the sun bleaching are reasons commercial furniture made of "cherry" seems inevitably to be stained or dyed.

[John TenEyck]

My cherry furniture is all less than 10 years old and is darkening, not bleaching out. But I made some cherry furniture for my daughter more than 10 years ago and one piece, their breakfast table may have bleached out on the top. It got light for some reason. I don't think they abuse it but it could also be a reaction to a cleaning product, I guess. I noticed it when visiting but did not realize it could be sun bleaching. It is not real even.

I agree completely with the comments that there is a lot of variation in cherry. I have two coffee tables in my great room with cherry tops and they look like they are made of different woods. Each top is consistent within the top, however. I selected boards to get that result. I wonder if the sun bleaching may be a bit board dependent too.

Maybe the lack of consistency and the sun bleaching are reasons commercial furniture made of "cherry" seems inevitably to be stained or dyed.

If the finish on your daughter's table is still good then it's unlikely a cleaning product caused the bleaching; more likely the sun.

Yes, most commercial furniture is dyed/stained to "harmonize" the color and to limit color change with time. Most customers don't want the color to change, lighter or darker.

John

[Carl Beckett]

This thread reminded me, many years ago I picked up some 'steamed' cherry. It was more uniform in color throughout the batch. I dont know exactly the process, but assumed they simply exposed the wood to steam?

Anybody familiar with this?

[Greg Utterback]

23" W x 2 1/4" T. I have all the slabs planed with a slab dining table as the end project. Working my way towards that.

[Greg Utterback]

I cut down a walnut and had the logs steamed at father in laws saw mill.

[John TenEyck]

I cut down a walnut and had the logs steamed at father in laws saw mill.

Steaming walnut lumber turns the sapwood brown to closer match the heartwood. It gives it uniform brown color, too, and takes away all the reds, greens, and yellows often present in walnut when steam is not used. It's perfect for the mass production furniture industry where uniformity is prized, but, like stained cherry, consumers get conditioned to think that's what the wood really does look like.

I've never heard that cherry would respond to steam in a similar way until I read Carl's post above. Can anyone confirm that? I see a lot of white sapwood in commercial cherry lumber so I'm skeptical.

John

[Carl Beckett]

I've never heard that cherry would respond to steam in a similar way until I read Carl's post above. Can anyone confirm that? I see a lot of white sapwood in commercial cherry lumber so I'm skeptical.

John

I did some searching after your post and it seems there is such a thing as steaming cherry to even out the color. Which makes me wonder if it ages differently with sunlight exposure.

[Stan Calow]

OK, lots of talk about cherry fading. One of the first things I learned here about wood, is that cherry darkens after exposure to light and oxygen. Eventually the process reverses, and it will start to lighten. But for indoor furniture that may be decades. So it does both but not in a short timeframe. The darkening is what I've experienced. Nothing old enough yet to see it fade.