Tapered Reamers

[chuck van dyck]

Hello creekers

I 'm looking to get a tapered reamer. I'm about 2 seconds away from pulling the trigger on the LV guy that goes in an electric drill. My only hesitation is the 12.8* taper that it cuts. It seems like a lot of the chair makers I follow write about a 6* taper, which seems much more elegant. Anyone have experience using the LV Standard Taper Reamer and a reamer like the one Tim Manney or Elia Bizzari offer? The latter seem like beautiful tools one would never be sad to own, but they might be a down the road deal. The 12.8* included angle on the LV seems a little dramatic. Am I missing something here?

Once I've got my hands on a reamer, I plan to make the tapered tenon cutter with an old block plane.

Thank for lookin :)

[Jason Buresh]

This may be helpful to you. The angle of the reamer depends more on the wood you are working and the type of leg you are using. As far as a 6 degree beingng more elegant, no one is going to see a taper once the chair is assembled. The taper of the tenon doesn't necessarily dictate the taper of a leg

471786

[Jason Lester]

I just bought the LV one, but haven't used it yet. Christopher Schwarz uses it for everything in his new Stick Chair Book.

[john jesseph]

It makes no difference in how the chair looks.

For a given depth of cut, the wider angle will make less progress in depth per revolution. Six degree taper reamer is pretty aggressive, so you can overshoot if you aren’t careful.

I feel like the six degree taper locks tighter in dry fit. Zero difference after glue up.

I have two Emhoff reamers, an 11 and an 8 degree.

I own some Lee Valley reamers, but haven’t used them.

Keep in mind that Schwarz is like you and me, same journey. Just a guy trying to figure it out and make stuff.

[chuck van dyck]

This may be helpful to you. The angle of the reamer depends more on the wood you are working and the type of leg you are using. As far as a 6 degree beingng more elegant, no one is going to see a taper once the chair is assembled. The taper of the tenon doesn't necessarily dictate the taper of a leg

471786

Ah, thats super helpful. Is that from the stick chair book? I’d like to play with some versions of his staked chair.

I make a decent amount of 3 legged stools, usually in white oak. My seats are typically around 1 1/2”. I like the look of a larger diameter wedged tenon in the seat. The 6* reamer would obv give me the larger diameter look I prefer. I need to do some math on to figure out what diameter I would end up with using the LV cutter. I typically turn the taper on my legs to around 1 1/8” before adding a little detail on the shoulder of a cylindrical 1” tenon.

Well I just ordered the LV, but I’ll be keeping my eyes peeled for a 6* reamer.

[Derek Cohen]

Just to be pedantic, speaking from memory, I do not recall anyone using a 6 degree reamer. 7- or 8 degrees yes, but not 6 degrees.

I made 7 degree reamer, and also own the LV 12 degree version. They both work. Six-of-one-and-half-a-dozen-of-the-other. 7 degrees locks tighter, but runs the risk of adding more pressure to the joint and causing a split. 12 degrees adds less pressure, but does not grip initially as tightly. Note that this is relative for each, and that both work. I am sure if you ask a proponent of one why they do that particular angle, they will say that that is what they learned, and stuck with it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[chuck van dyck]

It makes no difference in how the chair looks.
.


I think it does though. The diameter of the mortise on the seat top. Might seem silly to care but I just do. I’ll try some with tbe LV guy and maybe I’ll care less.


While I am looking for a super strong joint, perhaps I’m willing to sacrifice a little for the aesthetic I like. Still gonna be a super strong joint.

[Tony Wilkins]

Hello creekers

I 'm looking to get a tapered reamer. I'm about 2 seconds away from pulling the trigger on the LV guy that goes in an electric drill. My only hesitation is the 12.8* taper that it cuts. It seems like a lot of the chair makers I follow write about a 6* taper, which seems much more elegant. Anyone have experience using the LV Standard Taper Reamer and a reamer like the one Tim Manney or Elia Bizzari offer? The latter seem like beautiful tools one would never be sad to own, but they might be a down the road deal. The 12.8* included angle on the LV seems a little dramatic. Am I missing something here?

Once I've got my hands on a reamer, I plan to make the tapered tenon cutter with an old block plane.

Thank for lookin :)

One of the advantages for me of the 12 degree reamer is that it’s paired with an LV tenon cutter.

[Jason Buresh]

Yes, that is the stick chair book. It is a good read. It makes chair making very approachable. He focuses less on fancy tools and techniques and more on getting a chair built.

[john jesseph]

Also not to be pedantic, but Tim Manney makes a reamer endorsed by Pete Galbert that is indeed six degrees.

[Jason Buresh]

Also not to be pedantic, but Tim Manney makes a reamer endorsed by Pete Galbert that is indeed six degrees.

Elia bizzarri has one pretty much identical at 6 degrees also.

[Scott Winners]

I own the Lee Valley twelvish degree set, and I have a lathe for making big fat round tenons; but I don't own a six degree set.

For the work I have done, the 12 degree taper works just fine. Small tables, saw benches, foot stools, stool to sit on. Things that always have all four feet on the ground.

I have not yet built a back chair, a stool with a back on it. Nor have I yet leaned back in a chair I haven't built yet. When I do build a stick chair, I am going to lean back in it like the redneck I am. If a 6 degree taper set would work better for that someone please speak up so I can get shopping.

I find the LV tapered reamer is a good tool for the price. I don't use mine in my 3/8 chuck drill because the reamer can be over heated too easily. I can overheat the reamer with my smaller 1/4 chuck drill, but i have to work at it. When it makes whispy shavings that curl up on themselves, it is sharp. When in makes dust flakes, it needs to be sharpened. I use a safe edge auger bit file to keep my reamer sharp.

Also, the matching tenon cutter I bought during the staff shortages of 2020 came in with the blade or iron on the tenon cutter about 3/4 of one mm out of alignment. To check, line the two up so you don't have honed edge on honed edge and slip the reamer into the tenon cutter nice and slow. If they match, you are done. If they don't, slide the reamer out, loosen the bolts on the iron in the tenon cutter, you got this. Just take your time and don't give yourself a sharpening headache for later. As a team they work a lot better when they are in alignment with each other.

I did not, and will not, complain to Lee Valley about the iron being 4 monkeys hairs out of perfect alignment. Every time I sharpen the tenon cutter iron it has to be lined up again anyway. I would not mind knowing what the price of the reamer would be if it were made from a more expensive steel that could handle more heat, but it would probably be more money than I want to spend so I haven't asked.

[Scott Winners]

I think it does though. The diameter of the mortise on the seat top. Might seem silly to care but I just do. I’ll try some with the LV guy and maybe I’ll care less.


While I am looking for a super strong joint, perhaps I’m willing to sacrifice a little for the aesthetic I like. Still gonna be a super strong joint.

I have never before considered this. I am very much a form follows function sort of individual. But you are right, the size of the circle of the leg poking through the seat does make a difference in the look of the finished item.

[steven c newman]

So...where do I send this to? I do not build chairs, so have no use for this..
471791
3/8" to 1-1/2", by the L.L.Lord Co. of Meadville,PA. A No.3 reamer..
471792
6" overall length. Shipping is on me. I'll clean it up and flat rate box it up, Tuesday...just need an address.

[chuck van dyck]

So...where do I send this to? I do not build chairs, so have no use for this..
471791
3/8" to 1-1/2", by the L.L.Lord Co. of Meadville,PA. A No.3 reamer..
471792
6" overall length. Shipping is on me. I'll clean it up and flat rate box it up, Tuesday...just need an address.

Steven. What a very kind offer! I would be quite happy to chuck that up in my yankee brace. PM coming. Woot, this will be fun tool to have in the kit!
I know nothing about the L.L.Lord Co. but look forward to digging in there as well.

[John Keeton]

I use Elia’s reamer. I turn the tapered tenon using a template that I made using the reamer blade as a guide. There are, however, some chair makers that use a 6* ball joint reamer in a drill press. They are available for around $90.

[John Keeton]

Detailed specs of the reamer.

[Tom M King]

Those come in different diameters too. I've never had one of those in my hands, but have some "car reamers" for enlarging holes in metal that aren't straight tapers. They have curved cutting edges that end straight when you get up to the finishing diameter. I don't know if these are the same, but those car reamers cut in the opposite direction than you think they would when first looking at them.

[John C Cox]

I think I would start with "How is the reamer measured?"

Some list the cutting edge angle per-side, others list the total included angle. Thus a 6-degree per side reamer cuts a 12-degree included angle... Maybe they're both the same thing. Or maybe they're not.

I have not used metal cutting reamers on chairs, but I have used them on guitar pegs and I hate them. I've had trouble with egg shaped holes and a ton of chatter when running metal cutting reamers into wood, even by hand. By far, I have had the best luck with single flute wood cutting reamers.

My experience has been that wood reamers are usually designed with the correct cutting angle geometry and body shape to cut smooth in wood... Likewise machinists metal cutting reamers are designed for cutting metal...

[Tom M King]

John, Did you try going the other way with the metal cutting reamer?

[steven c newman]

Will ship it out Tuesday, as the Post Office is closed today....hopefully they don't use Dog Sleds....

[John Keeton]

Tom, I have not personally used the reamer that I posted, but I do know it is used in Windsor chair classes at John C. Campbell and I personally know the instructor. I have seen the class chairs in progress and it seems to work well.

Couple of comments about reamer angles - my Elia Bizzarri reamer is 6* included angle as is the ball joint reamer. The closer one gets to a zero degree (dowel) the greater the glue surface and the less “end grain” created by the taper. That would argue for a 6* over a 12* reamer/tenon.

The depth a Windsor chair leg is “seated” in the mortise is critical. I like using the hand reamer as I can sneak up on the depth one turn at a time.

[Tom M King]

Those metal reamers like the ball joint reamer you showed also come in "hand" models with a T-handle. I see no good reason to use anything other than what's proven to work for centuries though. For a while, I was looking for a metal reamer that also had a drill bit on the end, so that process could be done in one step.

[Tom M King]

Elia is selling blades to make your own: https://handtoolwoodworking.com/reamers/

[chuck van dyck]

Thanks for all the thoughts guys. SMC resource is truly great.

Well, I am a sucker and ordered a Tim Manney reamer as well. I figure, I won't be sad to own it, and will be great to have in the kit.

While researching I also came across this bit written by Elia. https://handtoolwoodworking.com/6-vs-11-degree-tapers/

[Scott Winners]

The depth a Windsor chair leg is “seated” in the mortise is critical. I like using the hand reamer as I can sneak up on the depth one turn at a time.

John has very politely with his usual gentle understatement made a very important point here folks.

Round, square and octagonal legs, without or without taper, are reasonably forgiving for reaming a taper into the receiving mortise. When you start turning bed/cove/bead/bead/cove/bead/cove/cove/bead into each of your four legs having the tapers on the mortises come out so the blobs on the turned legs look good is indeed a thing to sneak up on at all four corners.

I have worked my way up to tapered octagons. At my place I get my leg stock square with the electric donkeys, and then chuck up the largest possible piece of stock into the lathe. My first few tapered tenons weren't that great, but the second two dozen I did required minimal attention from my tapered tenon cutter. Once you have your tapered tenons you have a baseline to measure your legs from, but you have to get the mortises correct too. I generally put legs on the lathe at least four inches over length in case I screw up the tenon first time around, then crosscut the leg portion 1/4 inch over long after the tenon is on before I start tapering the leg part.

If you don't know what to do with 4" scraps of 1.5 x 1.5 inch hickory, oak, maple or beech let me talk to you about barbecue...

Tapered octagons look good, are relatively forgiving for reaming depth and aren't very hard. To my eye tapered squares and tapered rounds (plain taper, no bead/cove blah blah) just don't look good. John Keeton is not going to confront anyone about anything here I suspect, but his posted work in the projects section here speaks for itself. He is a man to listen to and learn from on this path.

[steven c newman]

Plain Brown Mailing envelope has been mailed, this morning. Delivery date is Friday 22 JAN 2022...enjoy.

[Rob Luter]

A kind gesture Steven and a great example to set.

[chuck van dyck]

Plain Brown Mailing envelope has been mailed, this morning. Delivery date is Friday 22 JAN 2022...enjoy.

Copy that Steven! Looking forward to it. I will soon be able to review Tim Manney's maple reamer vs LV powered reamer vs old brace powered reamer.

If I ever see an opportunity to "pay it forward" I will follow your lead not hesitate to do so

[steven c newman]

A package is now "out for Delivery" so, keep an eye out on your mail box.....

[Charles Guest]

6* reamer:

https://handtoolwoodworking.com/reamers/

[steven c newman]

Just checking in, to see if that package arrived safely...USPS says they dropped it off at the mailbox yesterday...

[chuck van dyck]

Steven. I got the reamer and look forward to chucking it up and taking it for a spin. Will crisp it up with some diamond paddles and I bet it will be great. Thank you! Your generosity is a testimate to why this community is so great.

Also received my LV reamer and Tim Manney reamer. I’ll update soon with my experience for future reference. I think the first project will be a staked bench for Japanese style handtools/shave horse hybrid. My studio space is 11x11 so I gotta get creative with floor space. I believe I can make the jaw mechanism for the shavehorse removable so I can hang it on the wall. I will have dog holes on the bench portion for benchdogs and holdfasts.

Basically a Jennie Alexander style shavehorse with roman workbench work holding.